The Witch Trials-Conversation with Paul Walker
K: I read a book.
P: Didn’t know you could read.
K: To write I should know how to read.
P: I know you’ve been reading. I know what book and I know it’s opened the flood gates.
K: It was very interesting but at the same time, I got my lion on.
P: I know.
K: History makes me shake my head…a lot.
P: You’re not the only one.
I was reading The Physick Book of Deliverance Dane by Katherine Howe.
K: The witch trials…
P: Why do you want to talk to me about the witch trials? Call in a witch.
K: I would like to just have a friendly chat about the witch trials…or witchcraft in general.
P: You know about this stuff.
K: Not really.
P: Okay. So, let’s talk.
K: First of all, it happened.
P: Of course it happened. It’s documented isn’t it?
K: Was it as theatrical as what I saw while reading the book?
P: I gotta look in. (he’s peeking in then shakes his head) Pretty much.
K: You were never interested in this stuff?
P: No. Never. It happened, it was weird. Done.
K: Okay. I get that but it sort of touched a nerve with me.
P: Because you’ve been in that spot, Kim. Just not in Massachusetts in the 1600’s.
K: I know. I just didn’t think it would trigger something raw.
P: Because it wants to breathe again. That’s all. So, let it breathe.
K: Trying.
P: You’re not trying. You’re doin’ it.
K: What were they really about?
P: What part?
K: The trials?
P: To put rumors to rest that would put a black stain on a society that was God fearing.
K: These women were a stain?
P: Absolutely they were. 100%. You think that a colony would want the craft of Satan in their midst and not think of that as a stain?
K: But these women were pious in ways that I could never even fathom…for me.
P: (laughs) Admitting a lot about yourself.
K: So?
P: You don’t have to be pious to be a spiritual person. That’s a religion thing. We’ve talked about that.
K: I get that. I’m just having an open conversation with you…aren’t we past frivolity.
P: Never. We will never be past that because we make each other laugh.
K: We do.
P: But the deep discussions don’t hurt either.
K: No.
P: We get to know each other better on those levels. By the way, why are people scared of those?
K: Scared of what?
P: Deep discussions?
K: Triggers?
P: Disagreements?
K: Worried they’ll lay their heart on the line and be denied?
P: Good one, Kim.
K: So the witch trials were about stain removal?
P: Pretty much.
K: I read…
P: You read a lot. Forget about what you were reading. Think about what you’ve heard about the Shaman or the Wise Woman in native culture…the healers…all that stuff. They were isolated because they were different and they kept themselves that way because no one else could understand them. They usually had no real family, only themselves. And because they kept themselves isolated…they were an easy target.
K: Then these women were easy targets because of their…solitary lives that no one could see into?
P: That’s a big part of it. And because no one could see into their lives or see something to gossip about, they became a mystery and in those times, mysteries were usually the devil’s work. If a person kept to themselves then they had something to hide and hidden things weren’t godly.
K: That’s a big assumption, Paul.
P: Have you seen the trials?
K: Yes.
P: It was all assumption. It was all drama and rumor and soap opera shit. It wasn’t fair.
He’s getting annoyed.
K: You’re watching.
P: You put me in that place, Kim. If I’m going to answer questions, I have to look in.
K: Were they witches?
P: Yes. A lot of them would be considered a witch but at the same time, if you were to use that language today…it wouldn’t really fit. What about a healer or a reiki practitioner or…I don’t know…an herbalist? Is that witchcraft?
K: No. It’s very accepted now. People are looking at more natural ways to heal the body.
P: Yeah but if you were caught doing Reiki on someone in 1682…You’re fucking screwed. They’ll lynch you up quick.
K: Burned at the stake?
P: More European. I guess the colonist thought they were more civilized and had a lot more manners.
K: Get out of here.
P: It’s true. They were kings and queens of a new world. With that…there were new standards. The dark ages…they didn’t think they followed them but ultimately…they did.
K: Totally. What about overacting resulting in another’s death…
P: Fuckin’ popularity contest and saving one’s own ass.
K: You know, if I brought in one of these people, they probably wouldn’t see it that way.
P: Now they would.
K: You think?
P: Sure.
K: So, this overacting…in court.
P: It was considered evidence. If someone was passionate about another’s wrongdoing, it was said to have happened because how…if someone felt so passionate or hurt by another that it
would bring them to their knees or have them faint…it was guilt. The louder the shouts and cries, the more guilt the other person had.
K: But now?
P: You don’t have to wail and moan to be listened to. If anything, that shit right there will make you look like the idiot and the one that’s calm and collected and sure of themselves is the one that holds the cards.
K: Huh. How things have changed.
P: They didn’t have the movies so they created them. (smiles and winks)
K: But these were people’s lives Paul!
P: I know. I’m not happy about it either but it happened.
K: Did we learn from that?
P: How so?
K: Did we learn from the fact that people were hung based on rumor?
P: Yes, we learned from that.
K: Did it have to happen?
P: Nothing ever needs to happen, Kim. It just does. It’s the choices of people that make things happen or snowball or whatever. You have to think that these people were using God as a means of control and power but also as a set standard of how people should act and really behave. It was…religious extremist and you think of that in all these countries that the six o’clock news plasters on the screen but it’s not just about the…who are they?
K: Islam or something. I don’t follow that.(the news) In general, the Islamic people are very peaceful people that use their beliefs to spread peace and love…the teachings of Muhammad. I know a few and we have amazing conversations.
P: But there are extremists in everything…it’s just how things are right now. This witch trial situation was the same thing and used Christianity against witchcraft. It wasn’t about which God was the true God and whoever didn’t follow the true God needed to act that out in violence and war. It was human against human. If you were praising God in the best way possible, great. If you weren’t, you were automatically condemned as a devil worshiper.
K: So many extremes.
P: Yeah. History has plenty of them.
K: Were the witch hunters out for anything and not just to see a hanging?
P: They got off on that so bad, Kim. It was…euphoric because that’s how deep their beliefs were. That’s how protective they were of their culture…of their religion and their God.
K: Then it was just about the witches and getting rid of the stains.
P: They were just the outcome of that. A lot of it was about fear. A lot of it was about not…no one wanted to understand or know each other. They didn’t want to have the heavy conversations that clear up misunderstandings. They just wanted this simple reverent life that was tied up in a neat little package.
K: People used these women for their abilities…mostly to help the sick. So why did they turn them in?
P: Because if they were caught using the offerings of a witch, they could end up being hung too. So it was sort of like…attracting flies with honey and then killing them when there was no use for them anymore to save their own ass.
K: This is getting me so…irritated.
P: I gotta share the images, Kim. If I’m seeing them, so are you.
K: Did the trials continue into the 1700s?
P: Yes. I don’t think people wised up until late 1700s to 1800s but it was still happening. It happens today, Kim.
K: What?
P: People who are not understood are killed all the time. People who do things out of the norm are bullied. They are held responsible for other people’s fears. You don’t think that’s the same thing as what happened in Salem? It just has a different face.
K: Whoa.
P: Yeah.
K: Bullying tactics to give the bully what they wanted and if they didn’t get it…trouble.
P: With a capital T.
K: Did the accusers realize that they were wrong? Did they go to bed peacefully?
P: Yeah. Sure. I mean…they didn’t get caught with their own sins laid out. Someone else got theirs and they were safe…for the moment. People had to tread lightly. If they didn’t, they were watched. They were talked about. There was a lot that was assumed.
K: What about that guy….Giles Cory that was pressed to death?
P: That guy was a strong guy. He was strong in his beliefs…in his truth and he wasn’t going to be crushed under the weight of other people’s lies.
K: Did he really get crushed?
P: Yeah. He suffocated first.
K: Really?
P: Does that give you some relief?
K: A little. That he would pass out before…I don’t know…the rack would be worse.
P: Then it was okay that he was crushed by religious supremacists?
K: I’m not saying it’s okay. I’m saying at least he passed out.
P: Just like it’s okay that I bumped my head before the fire?
K: Well?
P: (relents) I see your point.
K: Good. So, in summary, the accusers really carried on in dramatic ways because they were protecting themselves because anyone could be next.
P: Yeah.
K: But to point fingers, they had to have something to go by?
P: What, like dancing naked by a full moon?
K: Something. I mean, there was real witchcraft going on.
P: That stuff didn’t really happen in Salem. That was more in Europe.
K: Huh. Interesting. What about these witch’s teats?
P: Skin tags.
K: What?
P: They were looking for skin tags. I guess moles too, but the skin tags were…you would die if you had a skin tag.
K: Wow.
P: And even if they didn’t…if they really wanted to get some woman, they’d look at the clitoris.
K: What???
P: For real. Not one size fits all, Kim.
K: Holy shit.
P: Yeah. And because it was…there and women didn’t really know their bodies as well as they do today…they…really didn’t know the difference.
K: Oh my God, Paul Walker!
P: You asked. I’m just answering.
K: That is unbelievable.
P: What’s still unbelievable is that women have that cut off in some countries today. (present)
K: Dear God.
P: You asked.
K: I did not ask that. You offered that willingly.
P: True. You look a little pale.
K: I’m just…I shake my head.
P: You need a coffee.
K: I think I do.
P: Look, makin’ babies…in some countries…the guy enjoys it. The woman is not supposed to.
K: But doing that is pretty extreme.
P: It is. For me…let’s both enjoy ourselves.
Huge laughter from me.
K: Witchcraft…religion? Practice?
P: Wicca is the religion. The craft is the practice. Sometimes they didn’t always go hand in hand.
Sometimes it was separate. A woman who called herself a witch didn’t always do the spells or the…I don’t know…the ritual. They made herbs into potions or they prayed or meditated or lit a candle. Sound familiar, witch?
K: Yes. And I don’t mind the title.
P: No because it’s in you. You were talking to Nathaniel about her this morning.
K: Eavesdropper.
P: Gives me something to do.
K: You were saying that an herbalist or a Reiki practitioner…that’s sort of witchy.
P: Yeah.
K: Crystal gridder…
P: Yeah, but they wouldn’t necessarily be calling themselves a witch or selling themselves as that. It’s still got a bad rep.
K: For some.
P: You got your shadow worshippers…the dark magic and you got your white witches. Whatever you call it…it’s got a lot to do with intention. You know how much power intention has?
K: Yes. Actually, I do.
P: I know. It’s a blanket statement.
K: Then continue.
P: People don’t get that. They don’t realize that intention is that ripple. It’s the gas in the car. You put bad or good gas but either way, the car’s gonna drive. Difference is…the car probably won’t perform as well on the bad. It’s really too bad that people still don’t get it. They don’t. If they did, the world would look a lot different.
K: I get that. Let’s talk touch test.
P: Like if someone’s having a seizure and the witch touches them and it stops, it’s a witch?
K: Something like that?
P: Purely circumstantial.
K: Purely convenient.
P: That too.
K: Because actors…
P: I know, right.
K: Total drama queens.
P: (smiles) At least you said queens.
K: You’re a total diva.
P: That (pointing) is so not even remotely true and if I was, this would have ended a long time ago with my broken heart and your clean hands.
K: This is true. Can’t stand it. (drama)
P: Yeah.
K: Prayers. I mean, these women prayed. They spoke to and of God and if it’s God’s will and it’s in God’s hands. They prayed over the sick as they administered herbs or tinctures. They were very pious women.
P: They also revered the earth. They also revered the feminine. They knew the two.
K: The masculine/feminine thing.
P: Yeah. They were extremely intelligent people. And the husbands…the men that were married to these women…knew how beautiful their hearts were and they allowed it because they saw that their wives loved and wanted to share that as healing for the suffering.
K: Mother Theresa administered to the sick and she was criticized a lot, but she was never called a witch.
P: Because the word is totally taken out of the dark ages.
K: What do you think about the Wiccan religion? Now that you can see what it’s really about?
P: It’s cool. It’s actually something…that makes a person take full responsibility for actions.
K: But there is the shadow aspect.
P: There is but it doesn’t last long. Look at you. If you have that awareness…let’s call it light in the hippie term.
K: Okay.
P: And you realize that you’ve been voodooed.
K: Voodooed?
P: Yeah.
K: Okay.
P: It’s taken care of because it doesn’t scare you. If the dark scares people…because they don’t really know what it is…it’s just this scary projected fear or image of horror…they will allow that spell or that voodoo or whatever to stick because they don’t realize that when aware…that’s all shaken off.
K: Like I said, easily taken care of.
P: Totally.
K: I feel better about it. Not the actual events but…scratch that. I don’t feel better about it.
P: What if people started to forgive their histories?
K: What if…
P: Could it be possible that humanity would start being cool with each other if they could only forgive what history tells?
K: Why do people hang onto a history, that if learned from, could actually be benefitted from?
P: (shakes head) You tell me, Kim, ‘cuz I don’t know.
K: If anything, the witch trials were something to…an example of something that will never happen again.
P: You know what the families of those, that were hung, deserve?
K: What?
P: An apology. Every ‘witch’ that was tortured, shamed or killed by someone that…thought of them as something scary or evil…they deserve an apology.
K: Witches or those perceived to be witches of that time are not the only group that warrant an apology.
P: No. They aren’t. But that’s who we’re talking about.
K: How can we give that to them?
P: Just do it. Light a candle. Say a prayer. Do a meditation. Do a Reiki session. Go for a walk, pet a cat, play fetch with a dog, sit by a tree, watch the clouds, go for a drive; anything that will allow you to connect with a past that deserves an honest apology. Even if it didn’t have anything to do with you…to God…it means a lot. To those that died because of someone else’s lies…it means a lot. To the families that still live with that or think about that great great great grandma…it means a lot. This is the mindset that we have to be in now. We need to start forgiving our pasts to make that future we all want…
K: And need.
P: And need.
K: I was really a witch?
P: Still are, Kim.
K: Awesome!!!
P: (laughs) I didn’t tell you what kind.
K: I choose to believe I was half decent.
P: Still are.
K: Okay. You finished?
P: I’m finished. I’ll talk to you soon.
K: I’ll call you.
P: You better.
K: I’m goin’.
P: Bye.
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