Within the Loki series, taken out of who Loki was in phases 1-3, Lokius is seriously growing on me.

Loki and Mobius have a great bond, built on support and understanding.

Sylki is selfcest, Loki x Loki. We won't be missing out on anything. (In fact, I think it'd be for the best). I can easily see this going on the romance route.

But from what I remember, I wouldn't call it queerbaiting. Nor would I cite it as a reason to ship them.

My reason is good mlm representation from Disney.

There are a lot of straight couples in the MCU. (Almost) Every main hero is in some heterosexual relationship, Loki included.

And that's not even all the relationships, there are more.

But in the LGBTQ+ department... uh.. I think it was mentioned that Valkyrie had a girlfriend... uh... America Chavez had a pride pin... and Loki:

Wow!! How brave!! That is trurly MAGNIFICENT!! Cynicism aside, I'm sure the writers cared for the representation. I don't know them. But in the context of the MCU doing the bare minimum, it's icky.

One might argue that Loki is bisexual, therefore it's biphobic to suggest that he has to be in a gay relationship in order to be bi enough. Let me be clear, you are bi enough regardless of who you date.

However, as a bisexual person myself, I strongly disagree. The MCU has been giving us nothing but crumbs. Disney doesn't give a fuck about good representation. They want to attract queer wallets, but still keep it short enough to delete the scene for Russia and China. Us queers deserve better.

There was an opportunity to break out of this pattern, to give us an exploration of a queer experience. But we weren't given that. Time and time again, we aren't given that. And I fundamentally reject the notion that it's biphobic to criticize them for it.

Lokius could have been the MCU's first healthy queer relationship of a main character that is given an arc. I'm rooting for them all the way.

Sylvie, Queen of the Mary Sues; Worst of Her Name; Breaker of Canon*

The Shameless Erasure of Loki’s Trauma in Order to Prop Up the Show’s True Protagonist, Sylvie

Loki Deserves Better Than His Toxic, One-sided Romance With Sylvie

Sylki is Literally the Opposite of a Self-Love Story

The Hypocrisy of Framing Sylvie as a Hero and Loki as a Villain

Sylvie and the Problem With “Strong Female Characters”

Loki (2021)’s Cynical Use of Comic Book Easter Eggs to Shortcut Sylvie’s Character “Development”

Belittling vs. Bickering: Sylvie and Loki’s Problematic Dynamic

Every Single Issue With Sylki (It’s Not Just the Selfcest)

Why Loki (2021)’s Sylvie Is A Mary Sue

Even Ignoring the Selfcest, Sylki Is Still A Terrible Pairing

*shoutout to @iamnmbr3 for this catchy nickname lol

↩️ back to the compendium

i know i've talked so much about it today, but i seriously cannot get loki season 2 out of my head. everything i have learned about it has been against my will

it's genuinely messed up that so much of the dialogue in the loki series is spent talking about how loki is a bad person and a murderer and etc. when the loki show itself is the one that cut his redemption arc short.

a redemption arc, btw, which was for things he was likely either forced or manipulated into doing— and don't come to me saying the thanos torture is a headcanon. rewatch Avengers 1. he is harmed and threatened on screen. thanos canonically tortures his own daughters. and him harming LOKI is a stretch? come on, now.

"itS nOt CAnOn" shut up. curse of allspeak:

THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS

Marvel at the beginning of the show: So this show will be about Loki learning to love himself and not being afraid of being lonely anymore.

Also Marvel: completely ignores Loki‘s trauma and tries to make him an evil narcissist** (Mobius is not qualified to make that assessment, especially since according to the TVA, Loki was supposed to do the bad things he did) at the beginning, tries to stick him with a Thor light version of himself, and has him end up alone, where once again, very few people will know or care when he did something heroic.

I liked season 2 a lot better than season 1, but that ending was whack.

If you don’t feel like reading a long rant, feel free to skip below. If you disagree with me and want to make your own long answer, write your own post. I’m mostly here to express my opinion, not get into long debates.

**Marvel doesn’t seem to understand much at all about mental health. I wish we could get whoever wrote Moon Knight to write everything about mental health in the MCU as they handled it in a decent way for a TV show. The last guy they tried to call a narcissist (Tony Stark) literally either tried to or sacrificed himself to save the universe more than once; as did Loki and his variants. Loki was set up to fail since the beginning of the timeline; and while obviously he’s far from innocent, acting like it was all his grievances were in his head and “imagined slights” or just a function of a narcissist is a pretty awful message to send about trauma. We know for a fact there’s a shit load wrong with Asgard, and an amazing slew of double standards in the MCU. It would be a great way to explain it to say it was all part of a timeline that was meant for somethings to turn out a certain way, but I’m not sure they’ll do that. But that’s my head canon anyway, based on what we saw in the What If series. There we see that when certain events aren’t set up and happen differently, heroes can go off the trail and villains can be just fine.

They conveniently showed Loki how Odin “loves him”, but not that he literally kidnapped him and lied that his birthright “was to die”, and just basically let everybody else off the hook including people who have done worse than Loki.

I understand if they didn’t want to use another actual mental health term, but instead of “narcissist” they could’ve just gone with Loki having “severe attachment issues” or something more vague like that, but then they might’ve actually had to talk about how he got them. Because I guarantee you when the majority of people hear the term narcissist they think of the worst kind who have all the worst full blown traits on the spectrum, not of the fragile kind, who do have self-esteem issues, share a lot of traits with BPD, and are said to be more rare. They most definitely don’t think of people who would sacrifice themselves.  

I personally see Loki as Borderline with some narcissistic traits (who wouldn’t have them being raised a royal in a place like Asgard). With Tony I think some of his supposedly worst traits were him trying to cover up his trauma. Sorry Natasha, but an assassin/spy who works for a shady government organization is not qualified to make a mental health assessment. Neither is Mobius.



s lkie feels like someone's self-insert unfortunately 😭

That’s absolutely what she is 😭

But what sucks is that they tried to wrap her up in stuff from comics canon to make it seem like she’s not as self-inserty.

Like I would’ve hated her about 13% less if they had just made her some random ass variant named idk Kimberly or something 😂 because at least then we’d still have a chance to get those other characters later.

But no! They didn’t just ruin their own OC. They managed to ruin Lady Loki (along with actual Loki’s genderfluid representation), Amora, Sylvie Lushton, and Lorelei.

Because they based her on all of those characters and yet somehow she has zero characteristics of any of them. The best way I can describe her is if you mixed Loki’s aesthetic with Thor’s personality. Which sucks ass.

I just… she is by far the worst part of the show for me. Almost everything else I love, but anytime she comes onscreen it just kinda takes me out of it.

me when i’m in a mischaracterizing loki competition and my opponents are lokius/sylki shippers who only care about the series and the characters they ship loki with, and not loki whether that be the series variant or the real one:

Here's how Waldron & Co. could solve the Sylki problem in Season 2

Sylvie: As for the kiss...

Loki: *He cuts her off* It was a mistake. I care a lot about you and feel a strong empathy towards you for what happened to you, but evidently I had mistaken all this for love.

Sylvie: The same goes for me. I care a lot about you, but I was confused. And I wanted to tell you that I'm sorry if I acted arrogant towards you.

Loki: Past is past *Loki says with a smile*

Sylvie: Friends? *she holds out her hand*

Loki: Sure *He says squeezing her hand*

I will never forgive Marvel for how they first cowardly played down Loki (and Sylvie’s) queer identities and then retconned and wasted the potential of their romance and I will never trust the MCU again

My former comfort ship now only makes me mad and sad and frustrated

Wait... hold on now...

Abuse in the Loki Show

* Physical and sexual abuse: The main male character was stripped without his consent after being violently subdued, kidnapped and imprisoned. He got bent over a table by a physically stronger female character (B-15) making it look like he was about to be sexually assaulted. He was repeatedly kicked whilst already down, thrown around into things, knocked around and strangled by a much larger and stronger male. There was also a scene where a female character stood over his unconscious body looking like she was going to take advantage of him (Sylvie) who also bit, kneed and elbowed him causing him to clutch himself in pain. He was repeatedly hit, punched and kicked in the balls by another female character (Sif) and lastly he was kissed without giving consent (Sylvie). Another male character (Mobius) was pushed violently onto the ground by his female ‘superior’ (Ravonna.) There was also blatant violence against women such as B-15 punching Sylvie into the ground making her clutch herself and gasp in extreme pain. In the second season, Sylvie blasts the main male character into the ground quite brutally in the third episode. She also brutally hits another female character (Ravonna) in the stomach and kicks her through a time door in the same episode. Sylvie physically assaults the main male character in the final episode of season 2, two of the main male characters exploit a female character Sylvie in the final episode of season 2.

* Bullying, mental and psychological abuse: The main male character (Loki) is shown traumatising footage of events that happened in his life while his captor (Mobius) tells him how bad he is and brings up MORE abusive events and tells him how unimportant he is.

* He was put into a ‘torture time loop’ by his captor (Mobius) where he repeatedly got physically and verbally abused (kicking in the balls, hitting, punching and bullying about ‘deserving to be alone’) by not ‘staying in line’ by the organisation. A female character (Sylvie) leads on the main male character and manipulates him, sexually abuses him, blames and bullies him for all the issues that SHE created and stops him from trying to do the right thing!

* Nazi Symbolism:

- Stripped prisoners without consent.

- Force them to work for you or kill and torture them. Some of the torture methods include being ‘subdued’ and ‘gassed’ inside of a cube.

- Subdue, abuse, restrain, strip and beat them into submission in order to brainwash them, erase their memories and give them ‘Stockholm syndrome’ and ‘befriend’ their abusers (Mobius, B-15)

*Part Two: https://www.tumblr.com/zylice/733670791922778112/abuse-in-the-loki-show-pt-2

so you read Avengers Omega? Because CLEARLY you're not. so stfu and stop spreading hate! Dear god, haters are so fucking selfish and stupid. and just to be clear: you know nothing about Loki. AT ALL. STFU!

do you guys wanna bet this is because i said i don't like lokius, or because i said i don't like sylki?

i've got $10 on lokius

I'm so tired of constantly seeing Disney/Marvel pushing pro-S*lki bullshit it's fucking despicable.

Like seriously, can you imagine if the genders were reversed and S*lki was instead about a female character fawning over a male character who is constantly insulting her and telling her to shut up? Everyone would be up in arms about how abusive it was and how it was setting a bad example for young girls (and rightfully so). But because it's a female character doing this to a man, suddenly that's ok??? Sylvie is literally never held accountable for anything she does. It doesn't matter how selfish she acts or how badly she treats other people; the narrative always frames her as this pinnacle of perfection who can do no wrong purely because she's a woman. Nothing is ever her fault because she "had a rough past" so apparently that gives her a free pass to be as despicable as humanly possible and everyone will still love her no matter what. Meanwhile Loki treats her and Mobius with respect and kindness even though they have been nothing but awful to him and yet HE'S the one constantly framed as the "evil narcissist." Fucking disgusting.

Look, no hate to Slylki shippers, but there's so many things wrong with this ship.

Like, even if you choose to ignore the selfcest and the fact they share family members and DNA, I don’t see what is there to like about their writing?

I don’t dislike Sylvie or anything, I understand her reasons to do what she did. Her character? Solid. Her relationship with Loki? Not so much. Even when you put aside her betrayal and how weird it is for Loki to hold zero anger for it, the way he's obsessed with finding her and she seems to be perfectly fine without him just makes the ship seem one-sided.

Also, how long did they know each other for before that kiss, again? Isn't it kinda weird and forced for Loki to be head over heels in such a short anount of time?

I just think if they had to give loki a romance arc, it would’ve been soo much better with someone who wasn’t a variant of him.

And it’s not even bc of the selfcest angle, it’s just.. he has so few people he positively connects to outside of his own circle. Giving him friends and love interests and allies who aren’t just himself from another universe would’ve made more of an impact.

And hey if they had to make it a woman, that would’ve been the perfect opportunity to slyly sprinkle in some actual genderfluid confirmation. Just have whoever the lady is (I vote Lorelei or Amora) be pretending to be a loki variant to throw off the TVA, and when she meets him she could be like “yeah it’s easy, I didn’t even have to change my gender since you guys are women sometimes.”

ok ik most ppl (mainly series likers but series haters too) mainly bash sylvie because she’s an easy target (female character who also gets in the way of a popular ship) but i think we need to bash mobius more too. i really do not like that guy. i don’t understand how people can still like him/him and loki together after he mocked loki for being responsible for frigga’s death (i know we have varying opinions on frigga, but obviously we all know that her death affected loki very badly in tdw, and in the series we can see that the variant… Did not like that.) which he literally just found out about and technically was not responsible for yet, and also had loki thrown into a time loop where he got physically assaulted a whole bunch of times… it’s okay though guys because mobius said that loki could be whoever he wants to be (after punishing him for doing something he deems as wrong)…

i’m so serious… if mobius was a female character, most people would hate him the way they hate sylvie. they would notice everything wrong with his character, and even how inconsistent the writing is. but they only do that with sylvie, for some reason… and i don’t even like sylvie. i think she’s horribly written as well, and her character makes no sense. she’s 3 different characters put into one just to make her distinctive from loki, but she doesn’t really add anything different/interesting to the show at all. and i also obviously don’t even like or care about the variant, but it’s just so weird that the people who claim to love him ship him with two people who could not care less about him, and think that everyone else in the tva cares about him. none of these people cared about him!! variant fans hate him more than we do, because they never liked or understood loki in the first place. just fanon and what they could make him into