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#siuan: egwene what the fuck
esterzach · 5 months
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The price of the small pleasures
Alanna's character feels like a needed contrast that helps shape the perception of Moiraine's character. There is this whole episode where it's all about family and home. Alanna comes back home with a huge family, the kids are having fun, laughing, and playing with her Warders, it's warm, sunny, and cozy, a beautiful nature around, with lots of food as usual. Alanna is open, speaking with everyone, and making jokes. Life is good and people seem happy. Alanna is never alone and it looks like she is often home, where she is accepted and loved. And then there is Moiraine. Oh, boy... It's almost hilarious if it wasn't so fucking depressing.
This one comes back to her huge house, dark and gloomy even during the day, and revisits her memories, but it doesn't seem happy. It looks like a museum of someone long dead. Her things are covered, someone is keeping her room, all her things, but she is never home. She barely says two words to her sister and immediately they have a fight. And I get it - Moiraine is not exactly pleasant in her behaviour, even though she has her reasons. But she refuses tea. TEA! Alanna is cooking, having full meals, and enjoying life, and Moiraine refuses even that small pleasure. And tea is one of the few things Moiraine loves. It's almost as if she deprives herself of every pleasure. And it's not like she can't spend 20 minutes with her sister and say at least a few nice words.
Moiraine doesn't eat. They make a point with that one. We never see her eat. Lan eats, Nynaeve eats, Alanna( almost all the time - she is green, after all), her warders, Lan, Thomas, Verin, and Adeleas is all about LET ME enjoy my meal and wine ( half of the time she is completely out and doesn't know what happens around her and the rest of the time she is horny (now that is not exactly true, but that is for later). Perin even eats. Egwene drinks with Elayne. Everyone at some point is shown to eat. Never Moiraine.
Food is not just necessary for survival. Food is also a pleasure. It should be a pleasure if done correctly. Meals also mean connection with other people. If and when Moiraine ever eats, she eats alone. She refuses to join the others in Verin's house, her sister, and she refuses the sandwiches of her nephew. They make yet another point of showing how isolated she is, even from people, who genuinely care about her.
The first time her sister is actually nice to her, her first reaction is to get defensive and snarky and, after a couple more words, Moiraine literally crumbles and starts to cry. This is the first time in months, after The Eye she shows emotion in front of someone. And it's almost forced, she is exhausted, and hasn't slept in... a while and someone basically reads her and finds exactly her weakness and confronts her about it. That is just for a moment and she composes herself immediately. Seconds later she gets help and she shows emotion again. It sort of seems like showing vulnerability and weakness, and asking for help is something that she has no right to do, or... I don't know.
The one time we saw her doing some for her own pleasure was Tar Valon. The tea and the spa. And Siuan. And this was it. Now it sort of feels like she is avoiding that on purpose. Either she thinks she doesn't deserve it or thinks that this is a distraction.
Her baths in Verin's house are more self-punishment than pleasure. She doesn't have to carry water alone, but she does it anyway. And something tells me that this well is probably not the only one around that house. Both women are Aes Sedai, which means they can use The One Power for ... a lot of things. They have a garden and a bunch of flowers in the house, that look pretty fresh and green for the Mediterranean climate, considering the grass around is dry. Usually, every house has a well or some source of water close by. Yet, milady goes to a well, that is so far from the house, that is practically useless. Good luck bringing enough water from there for all the needs in this house, but anyway. Even with nothing to carry, in this heat, a walk like that is, to put it mildly very unpleasant. With something that heavy to carry up that hill... I don't know.
The other thing is - small pleasures are distractions. The only time she actually sits in the company of the others in S2 is when they are on their way to Tar Valon. And that is because she doesn't have a choice. And something happens there, that I think she thinks is a mistake. A moment of distraction, a small weakness, that threatens to ruin her plan. She is having a conversation. That scene is brilliant! Subtle, well-written, and perfect and I watched it like probably 30 times so far but I was focused on the wrong thing. The night when Lan and Moiraine travel to Tar Valon, everyone is around the campfire. Moiraine is again standing at a distance, isolated from everyone else until Verin goes to her, reveals what she knows and basically tells her "You know what I am not promising anything, you just have to trust me." They cut to other things and when are back again Moiraine folds and decides to sit with them. What could go wrong? Adeleas is drunk again, floating on a pink cloud, imagining romantic stories, speaking of sex life, and trying to make Lan talk. She asks how Lan and Moiraine met. What follows in uncomfortable silence! None of them speaks, Lan seems uneasy, and Moiraine glares annoyed. She continues to avoid his eyes. Verin tries to help, by saying that it's late and they have to go to bed. Adeleas ignores her, in her drunken haze and blabbing some imagined overly sexualized story, which gets on Moiraine's nerves. She quickly interrupts Adeleas's idiotic monologue with the true story of their first meeting. Whether it is because she is already annoyed with Adeleas' behaviour toward Lan, or wants to save him from an uncomfortable moment, is irrelevant. Lan is surprised. Moiraine speaks! But what was meant to be just a way to make Adeleas shut up, turns into a sweet moment. Because this memory is precious for both of them. Lan smiles and joins the explanation, they look at each other, and she smiles too throughout the whole time she tells the story. It turns into a banter between two very close people. Bond, no Bond, at this moment it doesn't matter - they are in synch again. This is beyond sweet. They joke! hell, Moiraine jokes! This is what they look like. This is them. For one very small moment. Everyone laughs. And then, all of a sudden, with a serious voice, a laser-sharp focus, and a very sober-looking expression, Adeleas says her great line. "And that's when you knew. Any old Warder can save you from Trollocks, that right one can save you from yourself." Adeleas wasn't drunk at all. You can pretend to be drunk when you are sober, you can't act sober when you are drunk. It was a setup for Moiraine, to open up, to speak, and she knew exactly how to make her drop her defenses and finally speak to him. An attempt to make her get close to Lan again maybe? Lan was happy for sure. Moiraine though... is on the verge of tears.
She knows what her goal is with him. She knows what the plan is and that little moment was a failure. The small pleasure of this moment would probably cost her. In order for her plan to work, she has to be awful to Lan. One small distraction, and she falls back into her normal self. A tiny moment of happiness, a shared memory, and the old, cold, and sour Aes Sedai is a normal woman with feelings. The danger - Lan sees through her and never wants to leave her side which eventually will lead to his death. That's how much a moment of weakness might cost.
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iliiuan · 9 months
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I'm to the point where Gawyn actually makes a decision, and a lot of the criticism he receives seems misplaced to me. He makes shit choices because he has shit information because the women he trusts to provide him with information refuse to communicate. Elayne, then Siuan, and then Egwene all misused him.
He followed Elayne to Tar Valon and undertook his training there, doing his duty without complaint. Then his sister vanished. His mom freaked out. He worried, and also BLAMED HIMSELF.
When Elayne returned, I don't remember if she even bothered to say 'hi' in his direction before running off again. Now he's really worried. Siuan won't tell him anything. Min won't tell him anything. He's trying to keep Morgase from blowing a gasket. Galad's joining the Whitecloaks. And then... there's a coup. Siuan, having given him exactly zero reason to trust or back her, he knew Elaida as a respected advisor, and he thought that her ascent was legal. He also thought that he would be able to get the information he wanted out of Siuan. All of this makes sense.
Then he stumbles. The change in Amyrlin doesn't fix his problems. He still doesn't know where his sister is. He lets Min rescue Siuan (and Leane and Logain). I don't remember his reasoning, probably because it wasn't very good. This particular point was all him.
Now he has his Younglings, and Elaida wants him disappeared, and he's sent on the mission to scoop up the Dragon Reborn for Elaida. He's heard rumor that Rand murdered his mom, maybe his sister as well, and he has a bloodlust for revenge. All of this is really reasonable, frankly. Then he runs into Egwene.
Egwene has the power to divert Gawyn from his path of doom, but she instead chooses to ignore him (in the political sense) and withhold information from him, while also sort of using him as a spy but not very well. Instead of using her rather impressive people skills to push him onto a healthy path, she uses him for some snogging and makes him promise not to harm the person who is supposed to save the world. She doesn't tell him where Elayne is. She doesn't give him any evidence about Morgase beyond being a character witness for Rand. She doesn't explain about the fractured tower, nor emphasize her allegiance to the rebel faction. She makes no effort whatsoever to sway him to her side, to even try to convince him to abandon Elaida. She doesn't even respect him enough to read him in as a spy for her. She also seems to think that a low-level soldier will be able to protect Rand from Aes Sedai. You know the ones, the women who can channel? Yeah. Not fucking likely.
So off he goes, swimming with his misperceptions, making ever more desperate decisions, experiencing increasing trauma and stress, until he finally comes to his senses and seeks out Egwene's side.
What I'm really trying to emphasize here is that Egwene could have had him on her side beginning in Cairhien, but she couldn't be arsed.
So when he goes back to her, and people criticize her for being with his loser self, my heart deflates a little. He deserves so much better. Even if he is a loser.
I also find the claim that Gawyn exemplifies toxic masculinity to be backwards. If anything, Elayne and Egwene are the ones displaying the traits usually associated with toxic masculinity: arrogance, withholding information or training, refusing help and then being upset when the helper isn't around, seeing the opposite sex as deficient (this one is only Egwene), acting invincible/infallible, not listening to good advice because of the gender of the person giving it ... you see? Don't be fooled by his masculine-coded job of bodyguard; everything else about the gender roles in his world are reversed from ours. He has a prescribed support role, and when he can't fulfill it, he becomes lost. He doesn't get to determine his destiny, so he doesn't train in how to make life decisions, but rather in how to follow orders and to walk his prescribed path.
So much about Gawyn's journey matches with the experience of women in our world who were raised and trained to be homemakers, but then had to claw their way out of abusive relationships, or find meaning after infertility, or push forward as a single parent after being abandoned by a husband or family.
So yeah, I have a really difficult time accepting a lot of the scorn he gets, especially from supposedly feminist critique.
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hikarielizabethbloom · 6 months
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I know this ep's gonna break my Siuanraine heart and I'm ready for it!
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I was not prepared for this to be the first scene
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It is always Rand's fault
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Lan, how can you stand him???
I stand by what I said, i love Mat but I don't care what happens to him. At least now he is with my girl!
Nynaeve and Elayne appear.
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Egwene, my beloved.
Alanna and her men. The dream!
Wife and husband should just stop being stupid and be friends again. I love this friendship so much. The chemistry these two have is insane.
I love how Siuan treats Rand like a bug that is bothering her 😂
Nynaeve and Elayne. Me: alexa play Just Impolite by plushgun
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Mat, two secs after meeting the Forsaken: is sex involved in this? Because I'm totally into it.
Finally, my son is back! I missed him. Are all these women going to adopt Perrin?
Imagine if your destiny was to babysit Rand. No surprise, Moiraine is so annoyed all the time.
Liandrin really said 'I'm gonna fucking it all up! And I'm gonna do it chaotically.'
Lanfear 🔥
Logain and Lan need to be paired together more often. They have good chemistry.
Lanfear:
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So they did adopt Perrin.
Nynaeve is a little bit impressed by Elayne 😂
Egwene x Revenge
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He is not Alanna! At least Moiraine and Lan are together.
Look, Rand did one good thing. Moiraine and Lan are so precious.
Noooooooo! They made me cry 😱😭
Vote:
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I can't believe is already over this season. Next ep is gonna be so good... Nynaeve in the promo🔥
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cainfortea · 6 months
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Ep7 Siuan Changes
I'm going to preface this by mentioning this is going to be full book spoilers. Also, while this may read as a defense, it's less of that and more of an exploration of the changes made and what avenues that they open up going forward in a way to internalize what happened in the show and to look for silver linings. I'm not really SOLD on the big change here. But so far the show has shown that they're usually thinking ahead on these changes so I'll just have to wait and see. Book spoilers here on.
Part The First - This episode was bigly about making the hard choices you think are right. Anvaere does it with Barthanes, talks about how that's Moiraine operates. And nothing Siuan says is incorrect. Moiraine absolutely failed in her part. And instead of changing tack (sailing metaphor), or at least telling Siuan so they can come up with someone else to take her place, she hid that knowledge and tried to go it alone. Part Deux - Character Involvement. The books in general, and this show especially, is being driven by our attachment to the characters. Later on in the series, when Siuan is helping Egwene become the Amyrlin, she mentions her failings. How she just ran roughshod over people. By doing things the way they did in the show, it's a lot more direct. When (if) she says something like that in the show, we're going to remember that scene specifically because of how much it impacts Moiraine and Siuan as people. Number Three - In the books, the tower coup comes as a surprise. That seemed a very extreme reaction. In the show, it'll be easier to show exactly how it goes down. She even spells it out. "Tower law says we cage the Dragon Reborn". Well, she failed. Now the Coup is going to be a direct result of stuff we saw on screen. Gone Too Far Four - To me, the tower split was very much set up as a good guy/bad guy split. The deposing of Siuan happened under circumstances that went against tower rules in the vote to remove her, and so everyone who stayed is already compromised. Weather out of fear, or a feeling that a whole tower is more important in these times, every Aes Sedai who stayed compromised themselves. How they all deal with those feelings and whatever self deceptions they use, happens a lot in their heads. Which is harder to do on a TV show. This way, it's clear. Now when the split happens, they can do it along the lines of "While Siuan was deposed legally, we really don't think a Red should be Amyrlin just right now, she is definitely going to fuck this up". Which is a lot easier to explain on screen and paint a group with a wide brush. 4.5 - Very similar to 4 but in a legally distinct manner, once the tower is healed, in the books, a big part of bringing them together is Egwene making the rebels apologize for rebelling. Which always seemed like a weird cop out to me. In the books, as I mentioned, the split seemed very much a goodguy/badguy split. And this solution is just some posturing that seemed very centrist in a "Doesn't acknowledge the actual problem but makes a bunch of people feel better" kind of way. By making it an idealogical split, the rebels actually would be rebels. So this scene would play off better.
Five - A part of Siuan's later story is her coming to grips with her failure. And while, yes it is true the captain of a ship that mutinies is 100% responsible for that mutiny, we never really see the lead up to it in the books. Now, we're there with her as she does it. Should she have trusted Moiraine like she had almost her whole life? Should she have remembered how to embrace Saidar and realized she can't force the water? (In this part i'm pretty sure it's no accident that she compares Rand to the Water that Turns the Wheel). These are things we'll be seeing her wrestle with in the future. Maybe.
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markantonys · 6 months
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oh purely political arranged marriage could be interesting to see because yeah, of all the characters rj could've chosen, he picked the one guy that was pretty much enslaved and sexual assaulted and yet was willing to sacrifice his own escape to free collared woman. Like sure, that guy would fall in love with a slaver and then even worse, sort of defend the Seanchann. Respectfully, fuck that.
So that marriage could be interesting, especially if it ends with Tuon breaking it off for whatever reason.
Personally, I think the show (and the books) should end with either Mat in the polycule (which ofc is not gonna happen) or single. We don't need to have all our heroes paired off (side-eyeing Moiraine/Thom).
yeah, i think the route the show needs to go is setting mat up as someone who is entering this marriage with the intention of fixing (or destroying) the seanchan empire from the inside. because it's not his character to go in with any other mindset. now, whether that includes genuine love for a changed tuon who will help him fix/destroy things or whether he's working as a solo operator with no feelings for her will depend on how many seasons they end up getting.
(and like, in the books we can headcanon that this is what he would've done post-canon, we can say "oh this is probably the route rj would've gone if he'd been able to write outriggers", but the idea that mat has serious intentions of trying to change stuff in seanchan and use his new position as prince of ravens for good is BARELY there in the actual text, if at all. the show needs to make it explicit. we don't need to witness the destruction of the empire within the show, it's fine to leave that as a post-canon loose end, but we need to feel confident that mat Has Plans and isn't just going to sit around being a slaver empress's yes-man for the rest of his life, because that's not his character.)
anyway, back to the show! i'm sure their 8-season plan includes a proper mat/tuon romance arc, but i think of all the PRIMARY romances (so not counting moiraine/thom & siuan/bryne which totally are not happening regardless) this one's the most likely to get cut if they DON'T get the full 8 seasons. perrin/faile and rand/aviendha will definitely be happening in s3, and the show already announced its rand/elayne intentions with that romantic meet-cute shot. i could see rand/min being cut and the polycule only being avirandlayne if the show only goes to 5 seasons (which may be why the show's withholding the polycule viewing for now, to play it safe in case they can't get to it all), but any more than that and i think rand/min will make it in (not that i would be mad if it didn't............just saying!). egwene/gawyn is also at risk for the chopping block in a less-than-8-seasons scenario since they get together so late in the story, but it IS plot-crucial that they're at least warder-bonded and emotionally connected in SOME way by the last battle.
mat/tuon, though, in addition to being one of the latest-game ships, there is 0 story reason they need to have a significant emotional connection. the only story necessity from that relationship is mat corralling the seanchan army to fight in the last battle, which can be accomplished just as well by a feelings-free political marriage (and in the books even this was mostly accomplished by rand lmao mat barely did shit in getting the seanchan to TLB). so i could definitely imagine feelings-free political marriage, with maybe the Implication that feelings might develop later, being their "fewer-seasons backup plan" for mat/tuon. it will be very interesting to see whether mat gets his marriage prophecy next season and see whether the show is willing to commit to that marriage as early as s3! i think this MARRIAGE prophecy is less risky to include early than the polycule LOVE prophecy, because you can always last-minute cram a political marriage into whatever ends up being the final season but you can't cram in actual love without enough time to develop it.
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highladyluck · 6 months
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Season 2, Episode 6 Liveblog
Elayne is getting a puzzle! :D this is such good enrichment for Elaynes
Rand’s secret little smile at ‘you can fight anyone’
“It needs to be healed” creepy but I kinda love it in a fucked up way
Not the pitcher :(
“That’s almost nice” WTF that’s so dehumanizing and so Seanchan
Well that’s almost entirely by the book
Compare/contrast these two chained up figures
Importance of chosen names
This is a much more effective mindfuck then whatever TGH Selene was attempting
Psssst Rand it’s bad when your new girlfriend separates you from your support network
Min you are harshing the vibe
“She broke the 3 oaths?” “Every single one” (Elayne took notes)
Names are a theme
I don’t think I want Lanfear doing me favors
“Many paths through the dark” I do appreciate leaning into the Lanbiguity
Suroth, if the Empress saw how you were toying with her Gardener she’d be very upset, those are Imperial property
Loial, have you considered: Stab them with the plant
We are about to have pitcher problems
The way the a’dam prevents a damane from using things they think of as weapons is a weird twisted echo of the 2nd oath. I’ve wondered if the Oaths would prevent Aes Sedai from making a’dam and I think it would depend on what the Aes Sedai termed a weapon that someone could kill another with.
Yeah this is pure book although the ‘you’re not a person’ line is an extra ouch
“Pour a glass of water” echoing horribly the water-cleaning from the tower
When you deal with the devil, that is actually how it works, I’m afraid
Temple of the Forsaken??? Y’all I need some fic set here. I need Dark Raves honoring Asmodean. I need therapy sessions that make you worse sponsored by the Acolytes of Graendal. I need Moghedonists whispering the sacred crypto wallet keys to each other.
Siuan is probs putting out diplomatic fires in Caemlyn now that they lost Elayne? Or attending Gawyn’s birthday party I guess
Oooh is it the trippy ~TGH dream sequence?
Lmao she calls him Ishy
“See the world as it really is in the World of Dreams” what a fascinating take
Do not ask about Egg!!! this is Lanfear she will make Egg into a flesh balloon for touching you
Smart Rand would be like ‘oh now I know you’re lying [about Egwene being Ishy’s]’ but Idk how smart he is
Oh this is heartbreaking she found the lost sister
Ooooooh are we going to see Bayle again so soon?
Nyneave like ‘I’ll allow it” but only because Elayne is saying what she would have
Elayne is getting a puzzle! :D this is such good enrichment for Elaynes
Awwww what a nice nosy boy who will repeat the contents of the letter
Watch she doesn’t stab you when you look away
Mommy issuessssss
I like the air knives
Because you want a legacy!
Ooooh lesson time. Everyone is barfing in this ep
Rand’s secret little smile at ‘you can fight anyone’
Oh god [MY BOYS!!!]
KISS!!! -ok moment’s gone
Mat and his lil grabby hand on Rand’s shoulder, my tactile boy
‘Some of the damane can sense people channeling’ guess we def changed the lore about how channelers sense each other, mildly annoyed about that, but it’s consistent within the show
That’s smart, trying to see the catch in the water like a mirror
Exercising power
Oooof that’s a new twist “I hope they told you at your White Tower how special you are”
Renna are you going to make her set it on fire??? The thing that comforts her? [post-ep I was thinking about the contrast in how the Seanchan command Loial and his tree powers- they are uncomfortable with it and have to ruin the moment. They don’t have the same power over him without tools.]
Well that was an uncomfortably sexually charged moment of excited panting [please tell me it wasn’t just me]
Proud of you, Egwene <3 Hah you made Renna mad good for you
Elayne: “I need a bestie real bad”
Mat gets it because Mat also has The Depression
RESCUE TIME
Min is like I am here to give you bad news, as is my fate
Mat’s good at bullshit detecting & does not handle betrayal well
This is very sweet but I feel like the subtext is “You will be eaten alive as king”
Pope hat
Oh my boys they are so sad
It’s time for… [Alanna and her posse corner Rand] OH SHIT IS IT HAPPENING?
I don’t think Nyneave does modulation
“It needs to be healed” creepy but I kinda love it in a fucked up way
Ooooof next time we see Ryma she’ll be with my Most Problematic Of Faves I guess 🫣😬☹️
This series loves to hang characters and if it can’t get Mat than anyone else will do
[Renna pours out the cup Egwene just filled] Oh fuuuuuuuck you Renna
You still won. You’re still alive
Our lost Blue Sitter coming in at the clutch
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asiagomitten · 2 years
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WoT is a big world fantasy adventure, Yes. But it is primarily a story about free love!! Moiraine and Lan? Mates for life, but in a bros before hoes kinda way. But when he finds a lady that she just fuckin HATES she’s like… for you, I will tolerate it (but also kinda die so I don’t have to witness that romance unfolding). And Perrin and Egwene? Fucking besties man. Perrin taught her how to throw a punch when they were little, and Egwene learned how to do a little sexy dance just cause she liked the way he blushed when he saw other women dancing. Aviendha and Elayne are ride or die, regardless of Randy Rand’s motivations. Every time the one of the boys flirts with a girl, they think to themselves “what would rand/mat/Perrin do? He’s always been the one good with girls.” Everybody is just so busy and like yeah Moiraine and Siuan love each other but they also reluctantly fall in love with other people as well because the world is ending and it’s ok to fall in love with an old gleeman who rescued you from an alternative dimension! Egwene turns the battlefield into fucking crystal after having her heart broken. All 600 books lead up to the conclusion that you can’t really defeat evil but you can find love before you die. Idk man I just have a lot of feelings.
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birgittesilverbae · 7 months
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might as well just kill Siuan off in the coup if you're going to not even give her and Egwene time in the tower together like what the fuck is this show doing given they've so thoroughly hamstrung any characterization she had outside of Love Interest. who needs a Gareth Bryne when the show's going to sideline her the same way in service to Moiraine's every whim
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ratherembarrassing · 2 months
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hello! i’m curious about your book thoughts so far for wot, if you wanted to share any of them?
i just finished eotw! just this very minute!
i had a great time! i think i'll need to reread the last few chapters because uh, that was very confusing. but besides that i really enjoyed the world and the eighty seven thousand characters. rand is a baby. there's a whole side story we basically never see between moiraine and nynaeve and egwene. that tiny bit with nynaeve and lan? so small yet !!!!!!. moiraine.
obviously i have the show in my head first, and it was super interesting to see what they had kept the same (very little), what they had taken and used in a different way (a lot), and what they completely dropped (SO MUCH!). there's literally no way you could make a true live action series of material this dense, but i'm not even sure you would want to. collapsing "and then mat, perrin and rand all went on separate adventure and heard the exact same story buried in amongst a bunch of other stuff" into "all five of these kids are ta'veren and moiraine clocks them immediately" really does free up a fuckload of time. that wouldn't make the most exciting tv (that episode is probably the dullest of s1). but those adventures were fun to read! "everyone goes to the eye of the world and then poof, rand goes on a side quest?" no, just send rand because he already knows. and NO ONE else knows? heightened drama! moiraine's a bit tired at the end? NO NO SHE IS FUCKED. these things made sense to me.
but there is something of a shame in those condensed plot points. the books is gorgeously littered with so much world building. the run of chapters at the queen's blessing where everyone reunites and then everything goes sideways only works because so much came before it, but it also works a heck of lot better than in the show. siuan's dreams are a poor substitute for all that work, and poorly executed to boot. sometimes words really do just do a better job.
also, there were exactly two moments that i took a photo of so i wouldn't forget, and they are probably a great encapsulation of what my real interests were here all along:
when old mate in the wagon is explaining the history of caemlyn and the damodred involvement, and rand fucking falls asleep.
when nynaeve asks where rand and mat are and moiraine's like "elsewhere." and nynaeve swears at her but perrin doesn't describe what she said. i fucking lold.
i'm probably going to read new spring next, because reasons. if anyone has any opinions about where in the order of things i should read it, let me know!
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liptonrm · 11 months
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I finished re-reading The Great Hunt a couple months ago and been meaning to write up some reactions.
I don't think I've re-read this book as a whole in 20+ years and there are definitely bits that I did not remember very clearly at all.
The parts I did re-read pretty regularly (Nynaeve and Egwene's lessons with Siuan, Nynaeve's Accepted test, the "flicker flicker" sequence) still really hold up.
This might be the weirdest of RJ's books, and that's not a bad thing. He was still settling into his style for the series and some things were delightfully weird. Only a physicist would send a chunk of his protagonists (and one secret antagonist) on a journey through a pocket dimension.
I also really liked the scene where Rand was stuck in a time loop in the abandoned village. It was chilling and atmospheric and gave some nice depth to Rand's early fears of going mad and terror re: channeling.
When I first read the book I definitely skimmed over all of the bits with the Whitecloaks. Geofram Bornhald might be remembered as a "good" Whitecloak but he's still a terrible person. He's all, oh, I hate how the Questioners torture all of these people, but I'm not going to do anything about it except maybe privately wring my hands a little bit.
Like, cool story, bro. You died doing the right thing. Shame about all of those war crimes and how you probably think the damane deserved what they got.
Speaking of damane, I am not looking forward to the eventual flattening and softening of the Seanchan. Their society is fucked up in interesting ways! But it's still super-fucked up. If you're going to do a story about the enemy of your enemy being your reluctant ally, you can't just handwave all of the atrocities. Make the characters grapple with that shit!
But that's a future problem that I'm sure I'll have many, many thoughts about.
In a lot of ways, this was RJ's most distinct and transitional book. He pulls in a soupcon of the old Tolkien pastiche for about a chapter, but the rest is at times weird and wonderful, at times thrilling, and at times deeply, deeply boring. I'm glad I revisited it and I'll be super-interested to see what pieces R2J2 & Co pull out for Wot season two.
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agardenandlibrary · 1 month
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Fires of Heaven: Chapters 27-40 43
I was going to start writing this summary and then I took my lunch and read another 3 chapters, whoops.
Okay what the fuck has been happening.
Siuan in Salidar – she and Leane worked out a strategy for getting the Aes Sedai there to agree to their plan, to wit: WE’RE LEANING INTO THE SCHISM, FOLKS. They’re going to set up a “real” White Tower out in the wilderness and announce Elaida is an invalid Amyrlin. Is Siuan trying to set it up so they’ll choose Moiraine as the new Amyrlin? She’s obviously got someone in mind but I can’t tell who.
Then Gareth catches up, sees all the Aes Sedai, and goes “Hmm, I really. Should’ve stayed home.” The Aes Sedai, meanwhile, see an excellent commander wandering around without a task and they’re like “that’s for us, now” and he swears to help put an army together for them in their battle against the Elaida Tower.
Rand and the Aiel are still following in Couladin’s wake. They find out he’s besieging the city Cairhien and Rand wants to get there in time to help prevent the city from falling. The whole Aviendha situation happens.
Okay okay okay listen. Aviendha, this whole time, has been weirdly mad at Rand for ~unknown (but probably gay) reasons~ which culminates in him accidentally walking in on her bathing (because she’s in his tent. Bathing. girl.) and her being so upset that she rediscovers how to Travel using the One Power to get away from him. Unfortunately. She Travels to a blizzard. Rand immediately jumps after her, saves her life, builds them an igloo shelter, and warms her with his body. Insert saxophone solo. Aviendha’s like “FINE. I GUESS WE’LL BONE” and Rand’s like “we don’t have to?” Aviendha: “NO, WE’RE GONNA”. The next day they encounter some Seanchan and hop back through the portal. Nine Moons mention!!
Nynaeve & Elayne, meanwhile, are still with the circus. Elayne is really enjoying this.
Nynaeve gets caught by Moghedien in the Dreaming – Birgitte was helping Nynaeve spy on Moghedien and some other Forsaken. Mogs catches them, nearly twists Nynaeve to her will, gets shot by Birgitte, then makes Birgitte vanish in a cloud of smoke before vanishing herself.
Nynaeve wakes up to find out that Birgitte has been Birg-yeeted into the real world!! I don’t know what any of this means and Myth won’t tell me!! Everyone be cool, I want to find out what happens on my own. We’re finally getting Nynaeve backing down from her previous “I am always right” position and learning to work around her anger, rather than letting it lead her. Sort of. It’s happening. Egwene stood up to her, ignoring her anger, and now she feels at fault for Birgitte’s yoinkening, which Birgitte is rightfully pissed about. I know it takes her longer to figure out how to channel without being angry, but realizing that her anger isn’t always the answer and isn’t always something she can rely on is a step in that direction.
AND ELAYNE BONDS BIRGITTE AS A WARDER. SO THAT’S COOL. Also it was the only way they could figure out to keep her alive after being booted from the Dreaming in a very non-Wheel Approved way. I mean. I think the Wheel will Figure Something Out, y’know? But we’ll see!! I am inducting Birgitte into the wonder girls.
She’s like, Well! I’m here now! Time to make ridiculous bets and beat everyone at archery.
Ough this is why I usually do 5-7 chapters, not 16!!
NYNAEVE spots UNO (RIP show-Uno) and he takes her to MASEMA, who is KINDA NOT ALL THERE, and has been creating a Dragon-based religion which is giving ME big EVANGELICAL UPBRINGING flashbacks. She gets him to agree to try to find them a boat, gets cornered on her way out by Galad, and also gets him to agree to try to find them a boat. Then the Shienarans are like “hey, we’ll come with you because we’ve got fuck-all else to do and we’re down to clown with the Dragon Reborn.”
AND THEN WE’RE BACK WITH RANDRAGON. We’re about to start the counterattack on the Aiel besieging Cairhien. Mat’s like “I’m. Leaving. For real.” Rand’s like “Cool, have fun.” because he knows that, no matter how far Mat tries to run, the Wheel will bring him back to Rand eventually. Sucks to know you’re the reason none of your friends can live a normal life!
Rand is shepherded (ha, sheep joke) by the Maidens of the Spear to help Egwene and Aviendha channel lightning/fire down on Couladin. HE TRIED to keep the Maidens out of the fight by ordering them to guard Egwene while she channeled. They can SEE THROUGH your PUNY WETLANDER PLOTTING, Rand.
Mat leaves, only to immediately run into a group of soldiers about to be ambushed and he’s like “oh these fucking morons are fucked” and turns around to help them. But reluctantly!
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OKAY wow that episode was a whole lot.
the beginning with younger Moiraine and siuan and the prophecy was extremely choice, loved the way they framed this episode starting with siuan and Moiraine being set on their quest and ending with the dramatic confrontation. We love a bookended plot!!!
Edit: I didn’t catch a lot of the. Hmm. Perhaps the best word is massacreing of siuan’s character? Because I haven’t reread the books in a while. But there are lots of really good criticisms about this episode. I still enjoyed my watch of it but. Choices have been made. Some people are speculating there is more than meets the eye, maybe compulsion or scheming or something. Others are saying that actually the choices make sense in context and it wasn’t a character assassination at all. Contentious episode for sure. I am not a Siuan scholar, I defer to those who have stronger opinions here. Anyway back to what I liked:
I LOVED Egwene vowing to kill Renna, so stoked for that.
How many fish similes can Siuan have in one episode? Many.
So glad we got Lan telling rand to tuck in his shirt and giving rand (bad) advice.
Still not over Mat’s line ‘Is this a sex thing or a murder thing’ asnlasdjlsadjas that was some quality Mat content I will accept this offering as long as he gets his quarterstaff next episode.
I reaaaally enjoyed the theming around death and duty/right and wrong this episode. And all the focus on the various ways that channelers can have their autonomy and control over the One Power taken away or co-opted by someone else.
LANFEAR’S NEW OUTFIT OH MY GOD. It’s white, it’s silver, it’s the cuntiest look I’ve ever seen. I lost my shit when she was grumbling about 3000 years serving the shadow and blowing stuff up that scene RULED asdbakjsdhakdhasdaskd.
I think it’s fucking hilarious that Siuan brought the Amyrlin seat with her, that’s so funny ashdlashdlsad.
Loved the introduction of Bain and Chiad and Aviendha being Extremely funny and the hand sign stuff!!! Hell yeah!!!!!!!!!
Not enough Nynaeve and Elayne but the one scene of them collaring a suldam was a Delight.
Thank GOD Moiraine is finally unshielded I am so excited for her to bring the badass for the finale.
And the Siuraine angst and being torn between love and duty at the end was delicious, I am here for it. 👌🏻
OH and also!! Mat giving ‘this edible ain’t shit’ and then getting taken out at the knees by Ishamael’s drugged tea ashdlasdhalsdhalsdhas Extremely good
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kevin-sedai · 1 year
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The Wheel of Time crew at a Halloween party
Rand: Went because he was told to by Min, Aviendha, and Elayne. Was supposed to wear a dragon mask and wings, but went wearing a name tag that said "Dave". Left at 9pm.
Min: Went as Belle in the blue dress and a book from Beauty and the Beast. Couldn't stand the dress, so she left with Rand.
Elayne: Went as Harley Quinn. Did her best to not complain that she was cold in the short shorts, but she was clearly shivering. Put something in the punch bowl when no one was looking and said, "Let's get weird," when she did.
Aviendha: Went dressed in her Vaporeon pajama onesie. Told Elayne to "put more in" after taking a sip of the punch and "you wetlanders need to live a little".
Mat: Went dressed as Aemond Targaryen with the wig and everything. Is mad when he sees Rand. "WTF, bro? I was gonna ride you!" he yelled. Elayne had to leave the room because she started laughing, though Mat doesn't get why.
Egwene: Went as Wilma Flinstone. Entered the house in front of Gawyn, while loudly complimenting the couple's costume that Perrin and Faile were wearing.
Perrin: Went as Scooby-Doo. Constantly tells people that although he is dressed as a dog, he is still a man. Fidgets with the tail like the Cowardly Lion all night.
Faile: Went as Fem!Shaggy in a baggy green shirt ang baggy brown sweatpants. Didn't put as much thought in the costume as Perrin did. Blames Perrin that her costume isn't any better. Secretly doesn't mind, she didn't want to wear anything but sweatpants.
Gawyn: Went as Barney Rubble. Doesn't understand why Egwene is so upset that he didn't go as Fred. Barney is from the same franchise anyway and has blonde hair, so it makes more sense. "At least I wore a costume," he said while point angrily at Rand who is minding his business.
Nynaeve: The hostess with the mostess and dressed as Snow White. Mat kept reminding her Snow White doesn't have a braid. She threw the apple she had as part of the costume at his face and hit him square in the forehead.
Lan: Helped Nynaeve decorate and then went to the movies before everyone came. Fuck them kids.
Moiraine: Dressed as Mary Poppins in the white dress and brought candy goody bages for everyone. Got one (1) compliment on her costume from Egwene. Got zero (0) thank yous for the candy. "It's okay," she tells herself. "They won't forget what I have planned for them later."
Thom: Dressed as Bert from Mary Poppins with the big drum on his back. Actually plays it like Bert did in the movie. Attempts to play Sexyback as he has punch.
Birgitte: Went as Katniss Everdeen. At first she says she won't yell that she volunteers as tribute, but as Elayne has more and more punch, she obliges happily.
Tuon: Shows up late because originally she was going to dress as Kim Kardashian, but then she heard a woodpecker outside, and took it as an omen to switch costumes halfway through getting ready. She went as Khloe Kardashian instead.
Berelain: Comes dressed as Dorothy from Wizard of Oz. Asks Perrin if he could be Toto for a picture together. Faile punches a hole in Thom's drum. Elayne has Instagram Live ready to go.
Galad: Comes dressed as Scarecrow. Laughs at how funny it is he and Berelain's costumes match. She laughs as well, what a funny coincidence (she was nonstop texting Gawyn to make him get a Scarecrow costume since July).
The lights suddenly go out and the door opens. Someone Nynaeve didn't invite walks in with a Michael Meyers mask. Everyone is screaming, except Moiraine and Thom. She turns the light back on and it turns out to be Gareth Bryne. Siuan comes in from behind Gareth and fist bumps Moiraine. Gaywn legitimately wet himself.
Loial: Writing notes the whole time wear a headband with Shrek ears.
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aceofthegreenajah · 8 months
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okay okay fuck that was so cool
notes about the trailer: (beware of spoilers)
A+++ song choice, haunting and fitting!
N accepted trials: two moments in, the one with the blood and one in two rivers
R and Moiraine talking to Siuan - R is after his cairhien arc, so at the end of the season after falme? Or in the middle on his way there? Maybe cairhien -> realizes needs help with the power, goes to tar valon -> finds out the others are in trouble at falme goes there -> season 3 to wastes
Lanfear waking up looking cool as fuck
‘Something that calls for blood’ and then really dramatic moments for all of them except Perrin just has a puppy :)))) Is that Elyas’ voice?
Logain looks HAUNTED
M + dagger = Liandrin messing with him, testing him, bribing him???
Horn delivered to the seanchan but no sign of fain, is he out of this season?
Liandrin with the ring melter alone -> delivering rings -> is she doing it in secret?
Perrin with a kid, his sister? I suppose it’s useful to introduce his family now before they become, ehm, relevant in s3... but what’s the context? wolfdream?
‘you have no conception of the power they wield’ oooh I’m so looking forward to the forsaken
Perrin killing a whitecloak - does he free aviendha, did her fight scene look like the same place and time?
Who kills a fade, one of the shienarans? Too dark couldn’t see...
Explosion = Mat is here, breaking in (f.ex. to free egwene) or out (in tar valon)???
No Elaida or gawyn or galad - but then they probably wanted to focus on the characters watchers only would know.
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What would you change about the Last Battle?
Oh incredible question thank you. Overall I am a AMOL enjoyer as you could probably tell from my url but there were definitely some wasted opportunities etc.
Ok first of all … fucking Thom. Let’s just get rid of that Warder bond but also it makes no sense for HIM to guard the Bore, like old ass no magical powers man?? Nobody jumps his ass?? They all politely walk up to him with Mask of Mirrors on and he’s like hmm that’s not how Cadsuane walks. Like how???
Somebody else on here suggested Lan guard the Bore which fucks severely because the only three people he’s ever cared about are currently fighting for all our lives. Force him to stay alive for something rather than constantly trying to kill himself in his pointless one-man war.
As well I think Lan should have gotten to confront Isam. I know that would take some rearranging of Slayer but if we don’t know how he got put together anyways well shit let’s pull him apart. Then Perrin could have taken on Lord Luc as a Rand look alike which I also think would have been interesting for his character.
For Perrin though too just like an honest acceptance of his wolf powers and leading the wolf packs instead of his dream journey.
Siuan and Egwene to not die 😭 Gawyn not to be a stupid idiot who put on the blood rings after a literal Seanchan warned him not to. Not to sound pro Gawyn on main but he should have fulfilled his birthright of leading Andor into battle beside Elayne.
How Fain died was really jarring, like what a weird time to throw down that Randland knows about germ theory.
IF and only IF Egwene had to die then Cadsuane is the worst choice as Amyrlin, it SHOULD have been Seaine!!!
Moiraine and Siuan get married
Androl getting the seal by just like bumping into Taim like a cartoon is pretty cringe. The dude can manipulate Waygates like no one we’ve seen and you couldn’t even use those?
I will say though more characters should have died, it ends up being somewhat low stakes because there doesn’t really seem to be element of danger. Like some people should have been cut down mid PoV to give some tension. It’s hard for me not to just name characters I don’t like lmao but like, c’mon, if Egwene dies then one of the Two Rivers boys should too.
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highladyluck · 6 months
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Season 2, Episode 7 Liveblog:
Oh it’s the most fucked up professional development conference ew ew ew
Moiraine: “Oh, a trap? You should go!”
LAN COMING IN WITH THE SINGLE BRAINCELL!!!
NEW SPRING
Oh they are so pretty
Fishwives with different life plans…?
Gitara
I like the intercutting with Shaiel, nice use of the medium
Moiraine looks excited to have a quest lmao
Leane’s outfits are so great
Heh it’s the opening of TGH
It’s extra fun thinking about Lan helping Rand with Siuan given what this Lan knows about this Siuan
‘Whatever comes, face it on your feet”
Cat crosses the courtyard!
A reasonable question from Rand
Aww buddy is this your first time getting mugged in an alleyway? Because I don’t think it is, you need better situational awareness
YESSS [Lanfear and Mat’s first meeting!]
Mat asking smart questions too
Congrats buddy someday that fleet will be yours it’s problems time
Elayne like ‘why don’t they fight back?’
Oh it’s the most fucked up professional development conference ew ew ew
Shifty shifty Verin
Liandrin is always up to something
Lan like ‘tell me about your suicidal thoughts’ Moiraine: ‘how dare you, I only self-harm every single moment of my life’
Siuan fish metaphor count 1
What DOES Tower law say about the DR? Oh I don’t like Siuan quoting that :/ Book Siuan knew better
Siuan like ‘WOW you have been skipping Power Leg Day’
That’s unnecessarily homoerotic Renna
Egwene is emoting so well
I wonder if she was trying to burn herself out?
Lmao someone finally recognized Elayne
Mat no the boredom will be your undoing
“Is this a sex thing?” Ishy like “not this time”
No gifts from Ishy!!! Not even once!
DO NOT ACCEPT DRUGS FROM THE FORSAKEN
Because you’re so bored and you have no impulse control (and you’re curious)
Handtalk!
Toh
Perrin is like ‘wow super not into this’
Donal’s Mat’s preparatory little dramatic hand gestures are so good
The Forsaken keep the seals around in case they get homesick
Yesssss my boy is hung 😉
Good lord the mommy issues on this guy
Ooooooh CONFLICT
Is she stilled? Fr fr?
Nah he’s gonna run the fuck away (and Moiraine will help)
Lmao Moiraine is like ‘yeah yeah now you know how I feel’
Moiraine: “Oh, a trap? You should go!”
I like how Rand and Moiraine are back in action, back at it again! Back in action, two action-y friends
It’s Darkfriend Social Tea
Lmao Barthanes that’s why it’s your job to kill her, she’s your aunt
Mat’s face OMG when he comes to with Ishy gently petting him
Ishy you made Mat sad :( and suicidal >:(
Lanfear’s always wanted to do that [stride out ahead of a billowing explosion]
Also!!! White! Or at least a lighter color
LAN COMING IN WITH THE SINGLE BRAINCELL!!!
Tied off shield :D
That’s cold Lan
That’s hot Lanfear
Look! A sort of healthy way to deal with guilt and obligation!
Bain/Perrin? I could see it
Omg they’re gonna get her!!! Look who’s mugged in an alleyway now!
Yes that’s fun give Egwene reasons to personally hate the Seanchan Empress 🤩
Egwene ruined the moment so good, she’s winning
YEAH I LOVE IT I LOVE THE DAMODRED FAMILY PAIN 🤩🤩🤩
What a baller lady
Verin knows all :D god she’s such a good Verin. Perfect ‘yes, and?!’ face all the time
Lan is the best Warder
Sure, tying off weaves is a lost art, I guess I can live with that
I love the special effects this season
Oh no it’s 2nd act breakup time?
It’s ok Rand can open the waygate or you can Portal Stone
Or Lanfear can do it I guess
Oh dear, torn between love and duty again
You could like… Heal her? Doesn’t need to be all or nothing! But that’s the Damodred Drama Gene I guess
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