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#shakespeare
kraftbrekker · 3 days
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rip hamlet, you would’ve loved welcome to the black parade by my chemical romance
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okay. so, in Troilus and Cressida Act 2, Scene 1, while being beaten by Ajax, Thersites is cursing Patroclus and Achilles out and says, “I will hold my peace when Achilles' brooch bids me, shall I?”
now, I just kinda assumed that was the equivalent of calling Patroclus Achilles’ bitch and implying that they’re fucking. which, fair. they totally were. and it makes sense in context with Thersites personality.
but I’m scrolling through the wikipedia article reading the summary of the play for Reasons ™ right?
and omg 😆 it says the definition of ‘brooch’ during the 16th century basically meant a “pointed rod, spit, or pricker” which jjfkjckska
I’m pretty sure Thersites called Patroclus Achilles top guys
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the-overanalyst · 1 day
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has anyone ever ever talked about how sign of the times by harry styles epitomizes the entire genre of tragedy? like "we never learn, we've been here before," "welcome to the final show, hope you're wearing your best clothes," "you can't bribe the door on your way to the sky," "we don't talk enough, we should open up before it's all too much," "they told me that the end is near, we gotta get away from here," "just stop your crying, it's a sign of the times." it's giving doomed hero who brings about their own downfall through a self-fulfilling prophecy.
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lesbiansilly · 1 day
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we need to normalise adapting Shakespeare plays into musicals I think like I would kill to see a production of much ado about nothing where they just bust into mamma Mia songs, maybe even Horatio and hamlet singing seventeen from heathers ?!?! the possibilities are truly endless
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buckhead1111 · 1 day
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New Yoric ~
buckhead1111
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talbrs · 15 hours
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playing around
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benvoolioo · 3 days
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L + ratio + forty thousand brothers could not with all their quantity of love make up my sum + you wouldn’t eat a crocodile for ophelia
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marahmartian · 3 days
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i am more antique roman than noble dane btw. if you even care.
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sophiamelanoptera · 2 days
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I am convinced that Shakespeare wrote Othello just to point out how close Much Ado About Nothing came to being a tragedy.
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canyousonicme · 2 days
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The Royal Shakespeare Company's The Tempest with Alex Kingston announces full casting. [x] Running from 26 January to 4 March, 2023 in Stratford-Upon-Avon, the play kicks off a new RSC season.
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William Shakespeare, “Julius Caesar”/ Tamsyn Muir “Harrow the Ninth”
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lostsometime · 3 days
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lmfao everyone else goes to “ring around the rosie” and liam, of course, goes directly to “when shall we three meet again --”
(the next line of which, of course, is: in thunder, lightning, or in rain)
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lungthief · 1 hour
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Hmm ok. I’m in the mood for some t+c meta so i want to talk about why Patroclus’ characterization in TSOA and where it went wrong.
I’ve seen a lot of Discourse about TSOA that takes the stance that Patroclus is completely ooc and falls into harmful (modern) stereotypical tropes about queer men, namely that m/m relationships have a “female” partner and a “male” partner. The part about his character being off is definitely true, because while Patroclus in the Iliad is generally characterized as being Nicer than Achilles he’s still very much known and respected for his skills in battle and not at all a pacifist. However, I don’t think the part about MM basing his characterization in her own internalized biases about queer men is entirely true, although I don’t doubt that played a role in it- rather, I think it’s safe to assume that his character in TSOA is based very heavily on Patroclus from Troilus and Cressida, a play she’s directed and talked repeatedly about liking. (For those unaware, T+C is a Shakespeare play about the Trojan War.)
The problem with transposing Patroclus from Troilus and Cressida into an adaptation of the Iliad, though, is that Troilus and Cressida is very much a play about gender. Like seriously, it’s one of the most prominent and most unavoidable themes of the story. Patroclus isn’t just a twink who hates combat because “that’s how gay men are”, rather, his entire arc up until his death arguably revolves around his struggles with his gender expression and sexuality. He’s constantly being mocked for being feminine, and it’s implied that a lot of the Greeks assume that he’s seducing Achilles into backing out of the war. (Achilles’ whole plotline about Briseis doesn’t happen in T+C, and most of the Greeks don’t know his actual reason for not fighting.)
To me, the conclusion to be found here is that MM tried to make Patroclus in TSOA essentially the same person as he is in Troilus and Cressida, but she didn’t really incorporate any of the themes about gender that make him interesting. Who knows, maybe she didn’t pick up on these themes to begin with, or maybe she tried to include them in TSOA and just didn’t do a great job of it. Either way, his combat-averseness and general patheticness comes across as uncritical, which in turn makes his character feel stereotypical and one-dimensional, and takes away a lot of the nuance that the character originally had.
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Ophelia: This is my boyfriend, Hamlet. And this is Horatio, Hamlet’s boyfriend.
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