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lurkingshan · 6 months

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If you could rant about one thing in BL, what would it be? (This could be either a complaint or a soapbox)

Thank you for the invitation to climb on my soapbox, I love it up here. Something that’s been on my mind recently is bl second seasons, so I will take this opportunity to talk about why I both anticipate and dread them in equal measure, and what makes for a strong second season in a romance narrative. I would apologize for this being so long but it's you, Emperor of the Long Post, so I don't even feel bad.

First of all, let me just say that part of the reason I love Asian dramas in the first place is because they don’t have multiple seasons. Unlike American TV, you don’t have to invest literal years in a show only to have it blow up in your face when it (nearly always) goes off the rails for one reason or another. The vast majority of Asian dramas are one and done–they tell a complete story in one limited run, and afterwards you just get to move on to the next story. As a result they tend to have a higher hit rate because they’re not trying to stretch their story beyond its limits to keep it going and going, and even when they fail you only spent a few days or weeks on it so it doesn’t feel like you wasted a lot of time. There are a few exceptions of course (lately kdramas on Netflix have started splitting into two “seasons” that are really just one standard kdrama episode count split in two and airing a few months apart–high key annoying IMO), but by and large that’s how it goes.

So the bl genre’s propensity for second seasons already goes a bit against the grain of what I love about dramas, and add to that the very nature of bls—they are romances, which typically end at the point that the romantic conflict has been addressed and the characters decide to stay together. So in general, I am primed to be suspicious of second seasons in this genre. Many second seasons are clearly driven by capitalism more than anything else–the pairing is popular and so the production company is looking to cash in while their commodity is hot, and whether or not they actually have any more story to tell is a secondary concern. So my first questions when approaching a second season is why was this made and what is it trying to accomplish?

I think there are a few buckets here:

Continuing the narrative season 2s: These are the shows where the story was not complete at the end of season 1, and season 2 is actually necessary to provide some resolution. Love Sick 2 and Make it Right 2 are prime examples; those narratives were incomplete after the first season and season 2 finished them. What Did You Eat Yesterday? 2 also falls in this category but for a different reason: it’s a slice of life show and the narrative never really ends. They could make 10 seasons of that show and it would make perfect sense (not that I am begging or anything).

Cash grab season 2s: These are the ones with little or no real narrative purpose. They’re more like long specials, and their purpose is primarily to provide additional fluff for the audience while they sell products (including the actors, they are also products here). Cutie Pie 2 You, Still 2gether, TharnType 2 are all good examples of this. Now I am not saying these shows are inherently worthless–they gave Aof the reins for 2SG, for instance, and he managed to make something of it and even repair some damage from the first season–but they are definitely inessential.

What happens after the HEA season 2s: My favorite kind, these are the ones that move into the next phase of the romance, once the characters have decided to be together, and take a look at what their relationship would actually be like. Their purpose is to deepen the relationship and character development and examine the types of conflicts that would naturally come up between the two personalities. Gameboys 2, I Promised You the Moon, Minato’s Laundromat 2, SOTUS: S, Together With Me: The Next Chapter, To My Star 2, and Utsukushii Kare 2 all fall under this category. Some of these are more successful than others, which I will unpack below.

Something like Our Skyy and Our Skyy 2 runs the gamut between these three types, with each installment fitting into different categories. The Eclipse OS2 is a great example of category 3, whereas My School President OS2 is more of a category 2, and you could make a case that SOTUS OS is really a category 1, since it puts a nice cap on the narrative of that whole series.

So, with that said, what I actually want to talk about is category 3, because these are the shows I am most interested in and where the decisions made in the writing are most crucial. Because this type of second season has real potential to either strengthen or damage the couple and how we see their relationship. The best second seasons of this type build on the established characteristics of the characters and take us through some natural conflicts that would arise as they continue their relationship. For instance, in Gameboys 2 we see Cairo and Gavreel spend prolonged time together in person for the first time after maintaining a long distance relationship and work through what physical intimacy looks like for them as well as how they intend to keep their relationship strong despite distance. I Promised You the Moon, SOTUS: S, To My Star 2, and Utsukushii Kare 2 all build on their characters’ well-established flaws from the first season to explore how that would manifest in conflict as these relationships continue and offer plausible scenarios for how the couples might make it through those issues (and it ain’t always pretty!). All of these are very successful second seasons, because they build naturally from what came before and directly address the doubts we had when those shows first ended about whether the couple can actually make it long-term.

Where this type of second season goes really wrong is when the writing violates character or the established patterns of the relationship in order to create conflict. In Together With Me: The Next Chapter, the show uses cheating as a plot device, having Korn cheat on Knock in a one-off hookup with a shitty villain character, and to add insult to injury, they juxtaposed it against Knock finally coming out in a poor attempt at dramatic irony. The reason this sucked was not just because it hurt our feelings; it sucked because that behavior was contra everything we knew about Korn, his devotion to Knock, and his well-established patience with Knock’s internalized homophobia. Now, don’t get it twisted: I do not believe cheating is an inherently bad plot device. It was actually used very well in I Promised You the Moon, a decision I will defend to the death (in fact, you can tune in to the conversation pod in a couple weeks to hear me do just that!). But its use in TWM:TNC did not make sense for the characters, and thus rather than deepening their relationship development, it irreparably harmed it.

Another way a second season of this type can go wrong is when the writing is not committed to the narrative or leans too hard on first season nostalgia rather than dealing with the current iteration of the characters. Minato’s Laundromat 2 just did both of these things, which was especially frustrating because for nine weeks it was on track to be a very successful version of this type.The show started out tracking the painstaking and slow process of Minato dealing with his internalized homophobia and becoming a decent partner to Shin, but for reasons I can only speculate about, the show balked in the final act, backing away from finishing its narrative in favor of an amnesia plot and several episodes of first season nostalgia bait, ending with a happy resolution that felt wholly unearned and thus deeply unsatisfying. This was especially infuriating because the show got us invested in the growth arc before failing to complete it.

So what is my point here? Second seasons can be very worthwhile, but only if there is a clear vision for what the story wants to explore about the relationship that is rooted in what we already know about the characters. There are rumors about other second seasons coming our way from shows like Big Dragon, Blueming, and The Eighth Sense, some of which have more potential to add to the original story than others (T8S is particularly primed for a solid second season IMO, because it left so much character development and natural conflict for the next stage of the relationship on the table). But regardless of where they decide to go with the plot of these additional seasons, the thing that will be most crucial is whether they keep fidelity to who the characters are and how their relationships work. That is how you successfully build from an origin romance in a way that feels meaningful and worthwhile.

#bl genre #second seasons #long post #shan answers

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heretherebedork · 3 months

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Hi Francis!

Do you know if there are any Thai BLs that have gotten second seasons? Not including things like OurSkyy

I’ve been seeing an influx of people saying they think The Sign is going to have an open ending with the hopes of a second season which I wouldn’t hate if I thought there was any actual likelihood of it happening but I can’t think of any Thai BLs that got second seasons.

I know there’s Dark Blue Kiss and Honey Puppy but those didn’t seem like true second seasons if that makes sense. Big Dragon was going for a second season and that clearly doesn’t seem to be happening

Thank you!!

I mean, let's see... there's Gen Y which got a season 2 and was supposed to have three parts but, thankfully, did not. There's also Close Friend which was a collection of smaller pairings that got a full second season with two of the pairings that was supposed to have a third season but also does not appear to be getting that...

Now, let us keep in mind that I don't want second seasons. I don't like them. I don't think most of these shows are formatted for one and when they are that the formatting is unneeded and takes away from the show.

I mean, 2gether also had their sort of special/mini second season and that was fine, I guess?

Call It What You Want also got a second season that did actually tie up a lot of things but also just wasn't great, tbh, It was fine, though, and just as good as the first season which was also fine.

There are a few other smaller shows that have gotten season 2s but no one watched them and they're rarely much of a season 2. Country Boy and Good Loser both did.

I mean, technically, Love by Chance got a second season but it was more of a side character, side season that ruined the first pairing so I supposed it only kind of counts.

There's also Tharntype 2! Which is not good but gave us LeoFiat who then got their own show that was also not great but not as bad as Tharntype 2, frankly.

Love Sick and Make It Right both got second seasons that added a lot to the first season and gave us lots of good character moments and genuine happy endings.

I know @absolutebl has done posts about second seasons before and they might have a better breakdown than I do since I, you know, did this off MDL while also watching Last Twilight.

SOTUS also got a second season of them in the workplace that was definitely interesting and good.

But I hope everyone is wrong and we don't get that because that is my nightmare.

#second seasons #please don't #asked and answered #thai bl

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absolutebl · 2 years

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Thanks bunches for the response! It's incredibly sweet of you to take the time to do this for a random ass person online. Hope you know you are loved and appreciated! :)

Firstly, with your point on Cherry Magic and Old Fashion Cupcake, I agree! They were so close to being perfect, with everything, including all the conflicts and narrative beats being nigh on perfect in execution. They just failed to deal the deal for me.

Hence why I put them in the close enough list. Only the first 6 shows I mentioned nailed the landing for me.

Regarding your reply to my second question, do you see any way to resolve this issue regarding the post-honeymoon phase for the viewers? Is there any way it could be presented engagingly without going full WBL2/Tharntype 2? Are there any BL's that actually attempt to linger on a couple **in** a relationship and the problems they may phase in the first season itself?

As for if I grew up watching much anime, not really lol. I got into BL in my early teens and that was my first exposure to Japanese media via Yaoi/Shounen-ai manga. After a while, I had to reconcile with my new found queer identity and BL, which (back then) was not very queer affirming. [This isn't just Japanese stuff, I read a lot of Thai Y Novels with the help of Thai friends who graciously would let me in on group reads and translate for us while we translated Japanese works for them]

In general, the structure of anime doesn't tend to bother me much. I enjoyed Given a lot and had fun watching Sasaki to Miyano without too many qualms (except the singing in Given cos I hate BL and signing together).

As for Disney stuff, it's real hit or miss imo. I tend to not like it that much though so yeah. Tangled is my exception though. I love the movie. That and Beauty and the Beast.

Youa re spot on in saying that I don't like the classic structure of romance plots unless the final conflict is something that has long been established and has been creeping up at the couple. What you say about Korean stuff sounds VERY unappealing to me. It kinda sounds like WYEL territory which completely lost me with its ending. Not that I was head over heels for it anyway.

Regarding 1000 Stars, I've watched it, but found it to be kinda drab and dull fornsome parts in the middle to the point where I struggle to remember much of it. Hell I don't remember much of that show AT ALL. Only the touching scene where Mix counts the stars, vague flashes of the airport, and then a **very** hazy vision of their reunion. Nothing else. The show felt truly meh for me. Mainly due to the compete lack of chemistry to me between Earth and Mix. I sincerely just couldn't see it at all. That, and Earth's acting leaves...a lot to be desired. His "deffo-real-beard" was HILARIOUS though. The narrative itself seemed decently paced if a touch long winded from my recollection. Then again, I can't recollect for shit so I should probs rewatch. Also, PhuPha is quite literally the SOLE cause of ALL conflict in the show and I hate him for it.

Thanks for the recommendations on Moddy Arthouse stuff. I do love me some of that!

I've already watched YNEH, TCMDOC, and the Pornographer. I haven't gotten into Vitenamese stuff because My Cinderell was so clearly underfunded, it suffered hugely for it. And that is still held up as peak Vietnamese BL. I'm watching Want To See You now and my god is it extra. It is truly CAMP. The way the women are portrayed, golly.

This is to ask if Goodbye Mother is good.

As for the rest,

- L:LOTL because I cannot STAND Akira lol. His decision was close to irredeemable for me and I hate the way the denouement is done in either version. This is why I prefer His the Movie. It got to take it's time to unpack the singular issue between Shin and Nagisa and give us some form of satisfactory resolution to the conflict. Here's me on reddit ranting in an exaggerated tone about L:LOTL, where I'm left to fight in the TRENCHES for defence. (I really shouldn't have tried to be comedically exaggerative in the post lol. I got FLAMED.): https://www.reddit.com/r/boyslove/comments/vgae27/am_i_the_only_one_who_didnt_like_life_love_on_the/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share [WARNING: This isn't a good look for me lmao], and Here's a comment where I defend my hypocrisy for liking His but not L:LOTL if you care lmao: https://www.reddit.com/r/boyslove/comments/vlfens/my_review_about_the_japanese_movie_his_2020_share/idv9hud?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3

- Not Me I felt was sorta shallow and faux deep. While I appreciated the attempts to highlight systemic failures in governance that lead to the corruption ridden systems that take hold in large parts of South and South East Asia, allowing for moguls to rule with impunity, I felt that the politics lacked nuance and self awareness in action and most importantly, it failed to show consequence, which is truly where the large majority of the injustice lies. The romance and stuff was fun I guess. Gun KILLS it this time aswell! Love him as Black. Wish we got more of that Gun instead of White Gun imo.

- Manner of Death is a show that I enjoyed watching, but never finished because I love bringing a series and this series in particular felt unbingable. I'd get through a few epsidoes, get bored and quit. Then a few months later, restart, catch up, watch one more episode, feel fatigue, and quit. Rinse and repeat. I'd love to finish it though.

- What Did You Eat Yesterday is something I've heard of a lot. I know the manga is in my to-read list. Will get to it.

- Isnt Great Men Academy body-swap? No thanks if so.

Now finally for the bromances, I'm simply not brave enough to commit to 300 million episodes of content, only to potentially deal with het fuckery AND not get ANYTHING out of it. I know some of these things are supposed to be implied and queer coded but to what extent? How explicit is it? How shrouded is it? Cause I'm sorry but I'm not watching a 30 episode buddy cop type dynamic series as a substitute for good BL.

Jesus I type too much. I need to touch grass.

[Had to send this as an ask because character limits. Dear lord.]

Do you see any way to resolve this issue regarding the post-honeymoon phase for the viewers? Is there any way it could be presented engagingly without going full WBL2/Tharntype 2?

Many experienced and brilliant romance authors have tackled this one with mixed results. The nature of romance as a genre makes it very difficult.

I think, the conflict in the second season needs to be external and set up by the narrative and world building to work successfully. So, for example, even though I know it was a toss away because the actor refused to return, I didn't mind Color Rush 2 removing Yoo Han, because it total made sense he might be kidnapped, trapped by his family, or otherwise messed with given the sinister nature of the CR universe. I'd even be fine seeing a different actor portray him in a 3rd installment, again because plastic surgery or on-the-run visual shift works for the story, (so long as the new actor could convey the same kind of physicality as Hwall).

Another example:

I would have had TMS2 take Korea’s homophobic culture to task with a plot that had paparazzi exposing Seo Joon as gay and then the extreme public fall out. I would have had Ji Woo totally unable to deal with the negative fame (because of his past trauma and shy retiring personality) and flee for THAT reason. This would have made both characters more sympathetic (and still pining for each other), just torn apart by circumstances beyond their control. And I would have ended it with Seo Joon tragically having to give up his career but happily shacked up with Ji Woo in increasing obscurity in a countryside restaurant and small community that has learned to accept and protect them (ah la His the movie).

Are there any BLs that actually attempt to linger on a couple in a relationship and the problems they may phase in the first season itself?

You mean they get together like halfway through? Hum. Well Secret Crush On You, any BL where one half of the party has a super important secret or that tackles the fake relationship trope. Because of it’s style (that you specifically said you probubly wouldn’t like) any 4 act structure (or show that borrows this pacing style) so Chinese bromances and some stuff out of Korea, will do this, but still inject dumb break up conflict in the final quarter.

Also any BL that is more soap opera-ish will do this, like Japan’s Ossan’s Love, the Takumi-kun series, Pornographer series, or China’s Irresistible Love. Thailand’s Love Sick, Make it Right, Puppy Honey (in many of these the couple is apart at the end of season 1 tho).

I do have a statistical analysis of 2nd seasons (from before Korea started getting in on the game).

Second Seasons I Think Are Actually Pretty Good

In that they use external conflict to drive the couples apart rather than angst or internal conflict.

SOTUS S is my first pick. I like the conflict in both the 2nd season and the Our Skyy special. It’s around coming out in the workplace and separation due to being at different life stages. You need to buy into KongArthit’s dynamic though. If they didn’t work for you as a couple in SOTUS, the rest of the series won’t work either. But they satisfied me by moving from a college setting to a workplace setting and I really enjoyed them a lot.

I actually don’t like Present Perfect, but I think you might. If you haven’t seen this 2 part movie series (Thai + Japan production from a queer arthouse director) you might enjoy it. It’s a little slow, but maybe? The conflict is internal but believably based on personality, so a little like TMS2.

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