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#pervasive drive for autonomy
aibidil · 1 year
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I think every parent of a neurodivergent kid learns VERY quickly (likely before they know their kid is neurodivergent) that the hardest part of the parenting gig is unlearning our assumptions about what is "acceptable" or "non-negotiable" behavior. If you have a toddler who won't do x, it doesn't matter how much bystanders or your parents say, "Well that's simply not acceptable." It doesn't matter if it's "acceptable" or not—because if you have a kid like that, you know you can't control another human in that way.
So this isn't a new revelation. But recently we've realized that my 10yo has a PDA profile (pathological demand avoidance/pervasive drive for autonomy—if you want to learn about it, look up Harry Thompson on the socials), which means that perceived demands cause him to enter a place of fight/flight response. I can't tell you the number of times he had a rage meltdown, injured me, trashed his room, etc. Because of this, we figured out (trial and error) how to interact with him starting when he was a toddler, so again, nothing earth-shattering with this new diagnosis, just an actual framework to understand him that finally encompasses all his (often confusing) quirks. What's interesting about pda is that the solution is basically to treat the person...like a person. It's a neurotype that INSISTS on being treated as capable and autonomous (what most people would think of as "treated like an adult", as if kids aren't entitled to autonomy).
What's really incredible is how, when this is all understood and supported, it doesn't have to cause him a lot of problems in day-to-day life. He's been supported and taken seriously for years, and now that he has words for it, he's even more comfortable in his skin.
Last week, we were both not in top form one day and I asked him to put his backpack away. (A demand! How dare I?! After he'd had a hard day of demands at school?!) and he literally threw it across the room, said something mean, and stormed off. (At which point I realized belatedly what was going on and dropped the issue completely so he could ctfd.)
Yesterday, in contrast: he had a bad day at school and I listened, then let him go and bury himself in YouTube for awhile. As I was starting to make dinner, he came and asked if he could help because he was hungry. (Note: no demand was made of him!) I said sure and we cooked together. When the food was ready, he said, "Can I eat alone today? I had a hard day."
Now, my upbringing (and my partner's) was one of The Sacred Family Dinner. The family eats together always. Why? Because that's what we do. No one would ever dare question it! This assumption that family dinner is inviolable lives deep in my soul. If I had said this to my parents (and I wouldn't have—it would've been unthinkable), I would've been dismissed out of hand. They would've scoffed and said something about how I had to do what our family does.
But because I'm not new here, I pushed all that away and said, "Alright. Thanks for helping me cook."
And he goes, "No problem. Thanks for understanding."
🥲😊😭🥲
Beautiful things happen when you let go of limiting neurotypical heteropatriarchal culturoinstitutional norms and narratives. Doing that requires leaps of faith. Leap after leap of faith. Scary leaps that challenge all your insecurities. Leaping every time your brain or another person says, "Well how will they ever learn to do x if you—” No. Leap.
It's worth the leaps.
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autball · 1 year
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Dueling PDAers.
This just so happens to be a sometimes acceptable way to nudge kids into doing things more independently, or to set boundaries when you’re afraid of your kids becoming too “controlling.”
But it’s not *really* why I do it. That’s just a bonus.
I *have* to do stuff like this sometimes so I can keep my own PDA in check while meeting the demands of parenting. When I know I’m truly needed by them, I’m okay. But when it’s stuff I know they can technically do for themselves, PDA rears up and is ready to be mad about it. 
So in situations like this, I can either flat out say, “No, do it yourself” (leaving my kid feeling abandoned and unsafe), I can get up and do it while visibly angry about it (leaving my kid feeling bad about themselves), or I can find a way to take *some* small amount of power back and put my extreme drive for autonomy at ease enough to keep calm and carry on.
The third option is best, obviously, so that's what I try to do as much as possible. Seems to work okay for all of us at the moment.
[Image description: A 4 panel cartoon by Autball.
1: An ND child (light blue/blue) and an ND adult (light green/green) sit with their feet up on a red couch. Child plays on an iPad, Adult works on a laptop. Child says, “I’m hungry.” Adult responds, “Okay. I just went shopping so we lots of snacks to choose from.”
2: Top half: Close up of Child with one raised eyebrow. To their left, PDA has popped up in a thought cloud wearing a gun belt and cowboy boots, looking angry and ready to duel. Child says, “I want you to get it for me.”
Bottom half: Close up of Adult with one raised eyebrow and a partial smile. To their right, PDA has popped up in a thought cloud wearing a gun belt and cowboy boots, looking angry and ready to duel. Adult says, “Do ya now?”
3: Original scene, except now there is a thought cloud between them that shows their two PDAs looking at each other, ready to duel as a tumbleweed blows by at high noon. Adult says, “Tell you what. I can get it the next time I get up, and if you don’t wanna wait that long, you can always get it sooner yourself.”
4: Same scene, except now their two PDAs are shaking hands as if coming to a truce. Child says, “I can wait.” Adult replies, “Okay.”]
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... more pda memes.
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epicslaymoment · 2 months
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Just a rant about my life lol: autism edition
Everything for me is a demand and i can't function anymore..... the only consistent routine i have is cooking dinner because i love it and i've always been obsessed with food. Daily routines are too much and so many times i'm told to do something and i can't bc it's not coming from me so i can't listen to the command to do it and i can't do it on my own apparently. Yet no one sees how much i struggle and that's just bizarre to me. I'm level 2 and probably PDA profile just late diagnosed so it probably seems like i don't need much support bc i only got diagnosed 2 years ago and always "seemed fine" meanwhile i've been burned out since 2013/14....
Idk what to do and i lack a solid support structure/system. I don't have money or insurance for occupational therapy. I don't have help at home. Anything we've tried (which is basically like my mom making a schedule for me that i can't do or her telling me i need to go to bed earlier...... i can't!!!!! I try and it's just too hard for me to get off my phone. I can't even set aside time to intentionally stim, rest during the day or get anything done hygiene wise other than showering.) We don't know what we're doing but i hate that i'm the only one really looking when i'm the disabled person....
I'm always looking online what things could help me but idk it's all too demanding and me being autistic isn't really talked about at home other than trying to apply for SSI or asking if i'm going to the autism walk/my mom brings up autism stuff if she watches a video but it nit being correlated to my life. It's not that my family doesn't care but it's not really paid attention to at least that's how i feel. Currently don't have a job either so i just feel really stuck and i think i'm burned out/regressing more and more i have no idea anymore. I don't FEEL burnt out but maybe i am.
I can't even process what i need nor do i know what types of supports i need. The thought of it stresses me out and makes my brain shut down. Yet i still feel like an imposter and i haven't fully processed the fact that i'm autistic. I'm just feeling ashamed and embarrassed about all of it. The only type of supports at home i could think of that i'd need are maybe some task charts (that would be exciting enough to make me do them), some communication cards and more sensory stuff. Like idk trying to figure all this out is a challenge.
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raincamp · 5 months
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11 03 2023
discovering that i experience pathological demand avoidance / pervasive drive for autonomy (PDA) as a symptom of my autism has been fucking life changing.
i spent all these fucking years feeling so helpless, my parents telling me that im lazy, feeling like a failure because i couldnt even graduate highschool. i didnt understand how everyone else could just sit back and waste their entire lives at the demand of someone else. how they could work 40+ hours a week and not come home so exhausted that they can't even find time to take care of themselves.
i couldn't find a justifiable reason why i was physically unable to do what everyone else has been able to "just suck it up" and suffer through. working full time, being at school full time, it was all enough to make me lose sight of why i was even alive. enough to make me have mental crises. enough that i ended up in the hospital several times.
but idk, im fine when i have control over my schedule. i was thriving during COVID when school was no longer a thing i was forced to do, but something i got to choose to do. nobody was making me sit in a building for 6 hours bored out of my mind. i got autonomy over my schedule, over my life, and i genuinely haven't been able to recreate the feeling of freedom it gave me since.
and when i was forced to go to school again, despite how easy it was, despite the fact that i barely had to do anything, the mere idea of having to sit in a classroom against my will made me burn with such rage that i made it so that i had autonomy over it. i would only come to classes i wanted to go to, which meant going to school three hours late and walking out when the class was over.
now obviously thats not how highschool works so i had to drop out. after a lovely (/s) visit to the psych ward my parents stopped giving a fuck. but then it was my choice to get a diploma/GED which i had zero problem doing, i was happy to do it even. why didnt i just sit through the last 6 months of school instead? idk, to me it felt like fucking torture.
i still feel that way, working full time. working part time even. i hate it because i want nothing more than to enjoy having a career like everyone else can. to be able to have a life outside of work, a fulfilling one even. ive never been able to do that. and it saddens me. why is it that everyone around me can find happiness in working their entire lives away but not me? why do i come home everyday wanting to die? why am i the only one who sees it as an injustice that my entire life is going to be spent at the whims of someone else's demands?
i burn with helplessness and anger and pain at the mere thought. but still i suffer through as many months as i can handle at jobs until i have enough money to last me a couple months of freedom. even though i have to sacrifice my mental stability for it. even though it means hospital visits and alcohol dependency and suicide attempts.
a perfect life for me doesn't include not working though, not working feels unfulfilling, i want to make a living for myself. i want to be financially independent. i dont even mind working 8 hours a day if i got to choose my schedule. if i could wake up one day and say "nah ill wait till 2 pm to start work today" or could start work at 7 am when i wanted, take as many days off as i wanted, which honestly wouldn't be a whole lot because i find value in productivity.
its the fact that i have to follow the demands of someone else that sucks the life out of me.
and now that i have this knowledge i can learn how to use it to accommodate my struggles instead of feeling like a fuck up
- andrew
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Am I the only one who despises "pervasive drive for autonomy" as an alternative to "pathological demand avoidance"?
PDA takes away so much of my ability to decide for myself what to do; it robs me of my autonomy. I struggle with doing things I enjoy because I make them into demands in my head, I can't watch weekly-airing shows because I tell myself that I have to, that I love this show, that I need to watch the next episode, and then no longer being able to. Because my brain has decided that it just Must go into fight or flight because... I am trying to decide what to do.
It just feels... gross, I guess, to dress it up as "i just have a strong sense of autonomy, i just don't like being told what to do ^_^" when it is genuinely disabling to me, not just in when other people try to influence me, but also when I want to do something and PDA prevents me.
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pillowbo · 8 days
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I have sadly absorbed so much of that "write when you don't want to" "writing is discipline not fun" crap that I began to associate writing as something I have to do so I stopped because I can't make myself do anything.
My brain will just shut down due to demand avoidance. The message that I have to do something is the antithesis of what I need to succeed much less to find that it's even worth doing.
I have started writing again because it doesn't feel like I HAVE to do it and even though it's just trashy smut drabbles they were written with true passion that I haven't felt for a very long time.
For some people, telling them they need discipline is the last thing you should ever say to them, or indeed yourself if you're anything like me and your brain shuts down like a TV that lost its signal at even the implication of a demand.
PDA autism is such a difficult thing to understand until you figure out that at the heart of it is the drive to be in control, which I cannot be no matter what when a thing feels like a requirement.
Yes, even when it's me telling myself I need to do something. Yes, even when I want to do that thing. Telling myself I just need to power through it was the hugest fucking mistake because that message to my brain is anathema and it DOES NOT WORK.
It doesn't mean I'm lazy. It doesn't mean I'm this disgusting human being who just doesn't care enough to try. It means that I'm neurodivergent so certain motivators that may help many neurotypical people are disabling for me.
I have the passion. I have the bravado. I have the scenes burning through my mind. I told myself that I needed to write them and it all came to an ass-grinding halt, and I could keep saying I needed to write until I was blue in the face and it did not matter.
I couldn't squeeze a sentence out no matter how many times I repeatedly closed and opened my document until I eventually gave up, my day ruined.
I crawled into bed and the second "I need to write" left my head, BAM, wild dreams about my characters. Holy shit that was awesome! Holy shit I need to wri-wash, rinse, repeat.
The subconscious portion of me, or whatever the fuck I guess is the greater version of me, the completely beautifully feral part of me that is one hundred percent credited for all of that filthy smut I wrote when I stopped "needing to write" has its claws hooked in my ass, and it will dig its heels in and resist demands at all costs.
My brain is like a Chinese finger trap. I have needlessly pulled, and believe me I've pulled hard, over and over with "just do it" motivational speakers and TED Talks, none of which ultimately planted my ass in a chair to finish a novel despite that those hours sunk into watching YouTube were quite entertaining.
Even when I DESPERATELY want to do something, the second I feel internally like it's a requirement my brain will go nope sorry man, then go blue screen of death, and I'm stuck there in limp noodle mode completely unable to cut through the static.
It has made me want to scream in frustration because I didn't understand my own brain and I inadvertently rendered myself INCAPABLE, not unwilling to, do what I want to do more than anything, WRITE.
You know where the pain stems from? It's not a lack of discipline. It's years of trying to change and praying that I could change something completely immutable inside of me.
And you know what? Knowing now that no amount anything can ever "fix me" and that I can never change freed me and healed my soul. I can't fit in the round hole, and I realize that now to my sweet relief, that it's a fucking beautiful thing.
All of which to say writing will never be a requirement for me, and I will never be disciplined or determined or any of that bullshit again. I will write whatever I want, whenever I want, and if I never want to write again then I will never write again.
The End.
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vizthedatum · 1 month
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Woke up pretty early but it’s another solid morning: vitamins, breakfast, tried something different with my coffee today, water, skincare, feeling motivated
It hasn’t always been easy for me to get started… unless I had something super urgent to do or somewhere to be, I can’t get started. At any time of the day! It might sound mundane but it can be utterly frustrating and disabling. Especially when you’re also dealing with depression, PTSD, pain, and fatigue. (Ugh it’s been so hard since everything is so interrelated)
Right now I’m not on any oral prescription meds (well except for my current antibiotic regimen) - I’m trying to say I’m not on stimulants right now! (I might go on them later idk)
I always feel like my autism and ADHD are at odds with each other, you know?
The way I’m trying (after trial and error… and reading a lot of anecdotal experiences) to mitigate that is by having a large windows of time in the morning to do “morning things.”
These “morning things” can happen at any time during the morning timeframe, and they consist of multiple options I can pick and choose from (so yeah, tackling my pathological demand avoidance too!!): eating, drinking, exercise, meditation, journaling, cleaning, skincare, figuring out meals, planning my day, just sitting and enjoying being awake, etc.
Not having a rigid schedule but still having structure to my schedule feels right.
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anxietyfrappuccino · 4 months
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what if i induce panic by not taking my medication, will i get things done then
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lilac-set · 11 months
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If anyone has any sort of tips on how to make pathological demand avoidance easier at all please let me know
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missmitchieg · 30 days
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PDA autism explained (skit)
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sonictalismans · 3 months
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I have Pervasive Drive for Autonomy - arguably the only thing I CAN commit to is The Bit
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autball · 1 year
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Actual footage.
(Image description: A 4 panel cartoon by Autball.
1: Logic (a blue cube) says, “Hey guys. You know how the feet have been getting cold at night and making it hard to sleep?” Executive Function (a silver gear) and Inertia (a purple sphere) reply, “Yeah,” while PDA (a red spiky figure) stares back silently. Logic continues, “Well, what if we think ahead and put on some socks *before* we get into bed tonight?”
2: Executive function smiles and says, “Yeah, that makes sense. I can just add it to my bedtime to-do list.” Inertia smiles and adds, “and I’m already up putting on pajamas, so it’s easy enough to just grab some socks too.” PDA has one raised eyebrow and says, “Yeah, I don’t know. I mean, I don’t like the way the feet are trying to hold us hostage with this ‘keep me warm or I won’t let you sleep’ bullshit. I say we stand our ground and tell ‘em to make do with the blanket.”
3: Logic says, “Okay, that’s reeaally not what’s going on here though…” Inertia adds, “Come on, you know how much I hate getting up when I’m already-“ PDA interjects, “Nope. Blanket’s enough.” Executive Function frowns.
4: A white box at the top reads, “30 MINUTES LATER…” PDA, Logic, Inertia, and Executive Function are all lying awake in their beds. PDA angrily says, “Fine, go get your precious socks. I can’t sleep with these cold feet.” Inertia gives side-eye and says, “You’re a real asshole, you know that?” Executive Function flips PDA the bird.)
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do you ever get emotional thinking about how your nervous system is just trying to protect you? I'm trying out the mindset where I view my oversensitive nervous system with compassion instead of resentment.
I think it's interesting that many people boil PDA down to not wanting to be told what to do. In reality, it's caused by having a nervous system that is extremely sensitive to anything that takes away control or autonomy.
My mom has been teaching me scripts to advocate for myself. She knows that people won't respond well to "I have pathological demand avoidance," because they think it's a made up label (e.g. 'PDA is an excuse to be stubborn or lazy'). Instead, she says I can say things like, "My nervous system goes into fight-or-flight really easily," or "my body is in survival mode a lot of the time."
Why even bother bringing it up? Because I do things (that are out of my control) that confuse and bother other people. I want to explain it. I get angry/defensive in unexpected scenarios, constantly show signs of anxiety, and often find roundabout ways to follow directions. It gets confusing when someone tells me we're going to watch our favorite movie together, and I get really irritated and won't come out of my room!
I don't want my loved ones to think I don't like them, or that I'm trying to ruin the vibes. I love them and I want to make happy memories with them. It's just hard a lot of the time because my body is telling me to fight, run away, or roll over most of the time.
So, anyway, all this to say that I am trying to show my nervous system some compassion. Other people might not believe in PDA or nervous system responses, but I can't control that. The most I can do is have compassion for myself, and learn how to advocate for my needs.
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epicslaymoment · 10 months
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Autism and roleplay, PDA Autism:
It's so funny how my brothers and i roleplay 24/7 and talk to each other in our character voices WAY more than just being ourselves hahaha.
We started doing characters with one set of cousins cause they did so and it was just a fun game, but we started doing that with our other set of cousins too. We We just never grew out of it like they did. We made up our own lore and stories, what we'd look like, how we talk, etc. I even talk in my cat character voice to my mom (i've had that character for my cat all my life, based off of our pet. My brothers have had their own version of him too.)
I honestly consider acting from time to time just for the fun of it cause i'm good at making up characters and scenarios and even providing different emotions for each scenario. It's so much fun and it's where i'm most creative!!
I'm the only one diagnosed so far but if i'd have to guess they seem to display traits of autism / PDA autism. I'm 99% sure my older brother is autistic, not sure about my younger brother but they've both said they probably are and i think it's most likely true. Or at least my younger brother may have ADHD and some autistic traits. Idk.
I have suspicions of at least 5 people in my family, including my older brother, who i think may be autistic for various reasons. It'd make a lot of sense.
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maevesweirdart · 8 months
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i hate hate hate having PDA (pathological demand avoidance/pervasive drive for autonomy). at work. at school. at home. everyone is like “do the thing” and i’m like “…… k” because i *want* to be able to do the thing, and i know everyone *expects* me to do it, and *all i want* is for people to see me as a trustworthy adult and not flaky or lazy, and i just. can’t???
i’ve been told i’m “making excuses” so so so so many times. eventually i started to internalize it. i tell myself that now. it doesn’t help.
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