primary quants.......

Fun fact: I googled Winston’s famous “you’re on a revenge jag” quote including the part about digging two graves (neither of which needed to be his). Apparently that was a reference to a Chinese proverb (often attributed to Confucius but not really) that states “Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves,” meaning that seeking revenge will probably lead to destroying yourself as well as whoever you’re trying to destroy. In this case, Taylor was screwing over all of Mase (1/2)

(2/2) Cap in their quest to get back at Axe and Winston was understandably pissed at how they were paying for something they didn’t ask to be caught up in. When he said “neither [grave] needs to be mine” he meant that he didn’t have to stay and end up in a grave, which of course led to Mafee attacking him for being “disloyal” for not wanting to be in the crossfire of a revenge plot that he never asked to be a part of. But yeah, make of that what you will. Just something interesting I found.

oh yeah after reading this i also tried to look up if we know the source of the Dig Two Graves saying and apparently we really do not (i.e. yeah frequently attributed to confucius but there’s no actual record of that, been attributed to Ancient Greece or smthing just as baselessly, there’s apparently an idea it could be a rough translation of a japanese aphorism but it’s just an idea)

really winston is laying out his whole Argument v well and i suppose that’s why taylor had No immediate response for him, b/c surely if he Was just gonna complain abt it like “this sucks >:/” and leave it at that, they’d be prepared to maybe handle that level of disgruntlement and have some methods in mind to shut it down, but winston is just Right and is being thorough about why he’s right and like. i don’t think they Can really argue with it, much less were prepared to do so in that moment, and sure seems like they did ultimately agree with him / listen to him seeing as they turn around (in 4x12, not 4x11, rip) to say they Had gotten off-course and weren’t interested in taking the revenge jag route, actually

like, he’s walking through why the Revenge Jag is the only reason they’re not getting bonuses, vs mafee just ascribing it to a general strategy to Save Resources in year 1 of the fund.......pointing out that if taylor Wanted to pay *anyone* full bonuses, they Could prioritize their top employees which does included winston even though he gets no backup on that outside of 3x11 and certainly not now when he’s Cringe N Fail cuz he said Moi while insisting on his value (and when the general audience of the show seems to have decided he’s out-of-line Egotistical for taking pride in his ability and never downplaying it / the value of it) as well as the fact that this isn’t about “oh i Would pay you if i Could” b/c he knows they’re not just waiting for some influx of funds, they’re Only holding back on paying people because they’re Anticipating the [dig two graves] situation, i.e. it’s Because they’re now planning to reorient their strategy around Actively Battling Axe Cap (in that they’re now intending to go on the offensive rather than just reacting defensively to axe’s attacks) that they foresee a need to Conserve Resources b/c they know this course of action could be “damaging” to mase cap by costing them money. and that taylor is putting that Anticipated Burden of an unnecessary plan that they personally chose......like, taylor’s employees don’t really get a say in this shift where the overall direction of the fund is now: Revenge Jag, but they’re pretty literally paying for it, aka having that [dig two graves] Cost put on them, aka neither grave has to be winston’s......

plus winston has Especial reason to be upset with this shift towards revenge jag, b/c he’s the quantitative guy, and this isn’t a Quantitatively Driven approach, as evident by him in 4x08 talking abt how the numbers don’t back up this particular strategy and in 4x12 when taylor’s talking about returning to their mathematical model and then winston says Q is for Quantitative Babey which isn’t just a total nonsequitur......Revenge Jag Tmc would be less focused on the quant-driven approach and thus winston’s work would be less relevant and he wouldn’t be able to just do his best shit for them if it kept being the case like “yeah we’re pursuing this strategy b/c first and foremost it’d suck for axe” so he’d have reason to feel like not only is he being Devalued right now in not being worth like, basically investing in as a Resource (like, speaking of conserving them, Not driving off your head quant would = conserving a resource) but in the future his contributions and ideas might continue to be pushed aside b/c like, again with the Dig Two Graves, the revenge jag probably isn’t gonna be quantitatively-friendly and he’d have to keep writing off his own potential input / have his own strategies be valued less b/c they’re deprioritized in favor of “what might be damaging for axe cap”

and then from a more Meta perspective, there’s the fact that mase cap only has four named non-taylor people, and mafee’s feeling Especially obligated to provide taylor with immediate and unconditional support thanks to his whole “oops i spilled some intel” thing, and sara really wouldn’t criticize this move even if she didn’t 100% individually love it either, b/c it Would conserve resources for tmc and she’s more about telling taylor what they need to do from the “you gotta do this thing you might not personally wanna do to make / avoid losing money” and this is like, the opposite of that, and sara would also probably save such input for a one-on-one meeting lol, and lauren’s not gonna say anything, so really only winston is Available to speak up lol

and that transitions right into how winston’s also immediately proven correct in criticizing the whole structure of this “choice” they’re getting, in that they’re all pressured to take the [defer bonus for a year] route and this is happening not through Direct pressure from taylor, but the expectation that the Social Dynamics among coworkers will push everyone to defer. like, clearly the thing is that everyone’s going to be worried that if anyone’s deferring, that’ll make those employees Look Good b/c they’re proving their Loyalty and “taking one for the team,” and a reasonable worry that those employees will thus be Preferred going forward. and in this moment that winston’s bringing it up, he’s also, you know, arguing with his boss and gets no support / backup on it not only b/c none of the other people present wanna actually make these Complaints themselves / back them up even if, like mafee, they’re evidently not personally thrilled about it, but also b/c winston really doesn’t seem to have much support in s4 beyond taylor’s indirect and implicit validation, which he of course isn’t gonna get here, and if people were willing to ignore / dismiss winston’s input and/or dunk on him about it over basically Nothing before, here’s a chance to choose between “hmm Winston Vs Taylor” like. nobody’s gonna side with winston, maybe not even if he Was popular and beloved, but he’s apparently the guy nobody has much respect / appreciation for and broadly dislikes, so it’s just like. he has Points, and mafee doesn’t even argue against those, just argues against winston daring to bring them up at all, because a) mafee is looking to continue Proving his support of taylor anyways and here’s an obvious avenue to do so by just shoving winston into a locker b/c you easily Can and b) he’s attacking winston not for being Wrong but for being Disloyal for not just Supporting taylor here and being whiny rather than taking one for the team and whatever nonsense about “if you don’t like it, become ceo of your own fund” like, the lesson here is to unionize......but really winston is just proven Right by mafee, a coworker, immediately making this an issue of Loyalty and by winston only caving not b/c he accepts that he’s Wrong on any of his points but b/c he’s being Social Pressured here in the form of “being yelled at / insulted and when he’s yelled at / insulted winston seems to just want it to Be Over, reasonably,” and taylor doesn’t Have to pressure him themself if their employees will pressure each other For them

god i’m still mad about 4x11 lmfao. bitter 5ever like how can you not be. he was Right but it didn’t matter b/c nobody was gonna stick up for him in the face of a) backign Taylor instead or b) in the face of anything, tbh. that shit didn’t kick in until s5, finally, and still only Partially.....peak standing up for winston in the form of rian in 5x05 going “yeah i’ll casually argue for why you shouldn’t fire him" and “oh you’re saying winston should have a drink? i’m saying he should do whatever he wants b/c what are you, shit at math?” thank you rian. probably totally unnecessary and that’s what winston deserves for once, like, go Beyond “someone intervening only if the most belligerent and bullying axe capper comes storming over to yell at winston, but if bill uses his inside voice it’s okay to just monitor the situation even if it involves threats and getting all up in winston’s space like a creep” i don’t think rian would be a silent observer to that

tl;dr Yeah Agree lmao sorry it took me ages to answer this....i was like “oh god i gotta be semi-Coherent for this one and say smthing beyond ‘yeah agree’” and i procrastinated that for this whole time b/c it’s intimidating to think of trying to accomplish that. thank u for the ask lol