#loki theories
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"What did we do wrong?"
"I don't know."
🙋🏻 I think I might.
It's the hot cocoa.
Or rather… it's Loki semi-unintentionally siding with Sylvie over Mobius.
In this episode, that's the tipping point. And so is lack of trust.
What we just watched is the version where things go very wrong and they fail.
But here's the delightful part to remember: things had to go wrong exactly like this, so eventually things can go very right. Because as "wrong" as this was, it had at least one purpose: Loki pruning himself.
That being said... "What's wrong?"
We've got a list.
-Timely's gone.
-Miss Minutes is back (and so is Renslayer).
-Dox and her team are dead.
Now work it backwards.
Miss Minutes / Renslayer get in, Brad is freed, and Dox and her team are killed. D-90 isn't there.
Why isn't he there?
He was sent to be with Victor.
D-90 is killed and Victor is taken at the hot cocoa machine, which delays everything.
Why are they at that machine?
Because Mobius got cocoa.
Why did Mobius get hot cocoa?
Because he wanted pie, but Sylvie yelled at him.
And when Loki didn't defend him in that crucial moment and actually walked away from him instead, Mobius simply got hot cocoa by himself as a pick-me-up.
Therefore: Lokius is the tipping point.
What did they do wrong?
What happened?
Loki and Mobius were separated and weren't on the same page. THAT'S what happened. And so, everything fell apart.
Words – or the lack of them, in Loki's case above when he didn't defend Mobius – can change everything.
For good or for bad.
(These shots are back to back:)
Lack of trust is also why things fall apart.
Sylvie attacks Mobius because he walks away, trusting the work to O.B. and Casey and Victor.
She can't fathom that. She sees it as a weakness. But it's one of his greatest strengths, and it's their only way forward.
It's also part of the "trust for others" theme that's been present from the very first episode of the show, and it's a primary lesson that Loki's first had to learn through his relationship with and love for Mobius.
And the necessity of trust is showcased throughout this episode in other places. Sylvie accuses Loki of putting a lot of faith in the others, and simultaneously she keeps talking about the TVA as a corrupted place / institution instead of seeing the individual people capable of change.
But Loki explains to her that it's about the people. He lists the names of his new family – the people he trusts – as being the heart of things. What's worth saving and worth fighting for.
Brad and Dox are mirroring the trust theme here too, of course.
Brad doesn't trust B-15, and he doesn't pick trusting or aligning with anyone. He dooms Dox and the others to die.
But she sees the big picture and is willing to die with integrity rather than betray the PEOPLE of the TVA.
And Victor?
He says he doesn't trust anyone… but then he chooses to change. With O.B., he chooses to have a partner.
(Not dissimilar to the ways we've seen Loki change over the show, too.)
And were it not for the ~hot cocoa,~ in THIS regard, things were going "according to plan."
So as Victor says in the season 2 trailer in a clip we haven't heard yet (!!!): they have to "make the hard choice," of course.
Trust each other, work to fix what's broken, have hope, and STAY.
And Loki and Mobius, the personification of chaos and order in balance, HAVE to stay together or it turns to shit.
Loki can't turn into a better leader if he ends up being Who Remains all by himself. He's gonna need his partner and the rest of his people for the TVA to truly change.
But how are they gonna do that if they all just blew up? Lmao.
Well… that part of the theory's a work in progress.
But this involves both butterfly effects and time loops. Somehow we'll likely be going backwards to earlier versions of them that will be trying again.
And depending on just how far back they go… Loki and Mobius' influence on each other may be a snake eating its own tail, just like Ouroboros and Victor.
Regardless, pretty sure Mobius is correct here. As he tends to be, lol.
It's gonna be Loki's turn. God of Mischief becoming the Loki Who Remains that Mobius needs, etc.
And it always comes down to the two of them at the heart of things, somehow.
Last thing:
I'm not convinced those versions of them all survived the blast that happened because of these wrong turns, to be honest with you.
But if anyone did… the gods did.
And they're (hopefully) not gonna make the same mistakes twice.
---
Originally posted as a thread on Twitter here.
My other Loki posts on Tumblr are under the tag "chars loki posts."
#lokius meta#loki meta#loki spoilers#loki season 2#loki#mobius#THE HEART OF THE TVA#loki theories#chars loki posts#this took so long to crosspost because tumblr has a 30 image limit APPARENTLY. I had to improvise
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Idk if this makes sense, but talking abt the Jane/Thor and Lokius parallels, you guys know how Jane searched for Thor with her equipment because that's how she found him in the first place?
Do you guys think Mobius got some sort of understanding or like remembered that Loki found him on his timeline last time, so he went back hoping to find him again? Yk?? LIke Jane is doing ??? idfk I'm insane
#loki#lokius#loki s1#loki s2#loki series#loki theories#theory#theories#mobius#loki laufeyson#mobius m mobius#mcu#loki mcu#mcu loki#mobius mcu#loki x mobius
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The TVA is located inside a black hole or in its orbit
Ourobouros' comment on black holes and Loki being spaghettified if he wasn't rescued in time made me suspect that the TVA is located inside a black hole or in its vicinity.
There's a book on black holes and the end of the universe in the credits. That's what got me thinking about the possibility. Also, spaghettification is a phenomenon specific to the nature of black holes.
The effect of time and space dilation caused by a black hole would explain why no one ages at the TVA. It's related to Einstein's Theory of Relativity. One year in the orbit of a black hole corresponds to roughly 700 to a thousand years in normal space. This means that, if anything survives inside or near a black hole, that life form wouldn't age as fast as we do.
Mobius would take 50,000 years to reach his 50s if he lived inside a black hole since he was born, for example
And if some technology created by Kang managed to isolate the effects of high gravity, then it would shield the agency and protect everyone from spaghettification, making it viable for the TVA to work from within or near the black hole, but making it impossible to escape its gravity and travel to other places.
Hence why the TemPads open portals to other points in time and space, and no one at the TVA goes anywhere using space crafts. Maybe not even Kang was able to create a vehicle capable of escaping the titanic gravity of a black hole. Not without risking spaghettification, at least. Hence the use of portals that instantly materialize you where you need to be.
With that said, Kang studied the relation between time, space and gravity and mastered it to the point where he created a device that could gather “raw time” and spin it into manufactured strands of time, bringing order - an artificial order, mind you - to what we presume is a chaotic universe, doomed to branch into a Multiverse and its own total annihilation.
One question remains, though. Loki and Sylvie traveled to the Citadel at the End of Time, but the TVA was nowhere to be seen. Shouldn’t it be located somewhere in the vicinity and be visible from Kang’s castle, since it’s also not located anywhere within the Sacred Timeline, rather existing outside of it? And where is the Temporal Loom located, exactly? In the very center of a black hole or in orbit around it, along with the TVA?
So many questions
#mcu loki#loki series#loki season 2#loki#loki show#tva loki#loki 2023#loki s2#disney tva#mcu tva#temporal loom#ourobouros#kang#mcu kang#loki theory#loki theories#black hole#spaghettification
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Odin sucks and Mobius doesn't hence Mobius isn't an Odin variant, case closed
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Lokius season 2 theory:
have y’all seen Happy Death Day? In that movie, there’s a scene where Tree, a girl who has relived the same day over and over again to find who killed her on her birthday, thought she had won. She was relieved that the loop would be closed. BUT in a split second, her love interest, Carter, was killed by the murderer, so in that moment she decided that she would kill herself in order to return to the beginning of the loop because the idea of winning without him by her side was unfathomable.
Meaning….
What if there’s one loop in which Mobius gets killed in a successful mission where they manage to save the TVA and stop HWR, Miss Minutes, and Ravonna Rennslayer BUT Loki cannot live with that result. Everyone is relieved that they have won, even though they have lost a team member. But Mobius was not just a team member to the god of mischief.
Loki looks around and shakes his head, crying “I’m sorry.” They all look at him. He destroys the TVA.
The loop begins again and this time Mobius is protected by Loki’s various magic illusions at all times.
#lokius#loki show#loki x mobius#mcu loki#mobius#mobius and loki#mobius m mobius#loki laufeyson#loki season 2#happy death day#loki theories
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You want me to talk about Verity Willis? I'll fucking talk about Verity Willis.
Spoilers for Agent of Asgard, maybe some other comics beyond that. Let's crack into it because I love Verity.
They're soulmates. The God of Lies and the Human Lie-Detector? Are you kidding? They were made for each other! They were meant to find each other, they were meant to oppose each other. If they aren't soulmates, they're (I'm not a Homestuck person, so I don't know what the opposite of soulmates are) meant to be rivals. But, to steal a phrase from Merlin, they are two sides of the same coin, essentially.
What the universe did not anticipate, however, is that Verity's ace. I don't make the rules; Verity is ace. And so, not a love interest. However, that doesn't mean they're not soulmates. They are, have been, always will be, in any life, in any world, in every iteration of Loki and every variant of Verity Willis, in every dimension, in every universe, queer-platonic soulmates. They're best friends. They're not "just friends". They're best friends.
You want me to talk about Verity? I'll fucking talk about Verity.
Even when shit hits the fan, even when Loki has been off doing god knows what shit for months on fucking end, and drives her insane to the point that she's like "I don't know if I can do this anymore, Loki," and he's like, "I'm sorry, I'll try to be better," she still sticks around and she still wants to be by his side.
And that's love, bitch! It may not be romantic love, it may not be sexual love, they may not be love interests. But that's love, bitch. He loves her. She loves him. They were made to be a match. Just not a romantic one. Just not a sexual one.
And in that moment of reckoning, that final moment when Loki is grappling with himself, and waffling between remaining in the void with the other versions of himself or going back to his brother's heartbreak and anger and Asgard's distrust and the All-Mother's betrayal and the chains of the future or die and not return. Or to transcend, undergo ego-death. To change, to transform, to do something that's ultimately going to be very painful and very hard, and what might not end up doing what he thinks it's going to do for him in the end. In that moment, she calls him. And he is on an alternate plane of existence, his phone should not even work, should not even exist. He is talking to previous iterations of himself and grappling with his own ego, he's not in a physical plane, he shouldn't even have his phone. But she calls him, to tell him she's on his side, still, after everything. She was there, when he told Thor what he did, she was already on the outs with him, before he told Thor what he did. She left.
But she's calling him, across planes. A love that transcends logic, that transcends planes, that transcends the existence or lack thereof of cellular towers. The human lie-detector, whose name literally means truth, calls the long-hated, long-condemned God of Lies, to tell him she's on his side, and that it's not the end.
Now, for my personal thought, I think she saves his life. I think there's a part of him, however small or large, that is not planning to come back from this, that is not planning to undergo this metamorphosis, that is like "What the fuck is the point? No one thinks I can change. Why the fuck should I change for them? Why the fuck should I change for me? Why the fuck should I even try? Why the fuck should I come back after I've changed, even if I manage it?"
But that one phone call from his best friend, from his fucking queerplatonic soulmate, saves my boi's life. And I don't think it's the first time she saves his life, nor am I convinced it will be the last. And she has no idea. Not a clue. She's got this lingering sense that he's about to do something stupid while they're on the phone, and she's like "Don't do something stupid." But I don't think she really knows that she saves his life.
And then he undergoes ego-death, and she is the first person he goes to. We don't know how much time passes between when he comes back from ego-death, figures out there's an incursion (I think that's what the event was. It might have been Ragnarok again), and goes to her. He could've gone to her and then been like, 'Oh shit, there's an incursion, I guess I'd better save her now.' Or if he knows there's an incursion and decides to save her first. We don't know, but we do know that they go to her first. And I think that's telling. Yes, Thor is mad at them; yes, the All-Mother betrayed them; yes, there's a sadistic future version of themself in their apartment right now (maybe), so there's not a lot of options. But they have options, and they go to her first.
Because they love her. And she loves them. Because they're best friends. And soulmates. And they were made for each other.
Literally. I mean, the future Loki created her for AoA Loki, more or less. He didn't plan on her eating the ring as a baby, but that's basically what happened.
You want me to talk about Verity Willis? I'll fucking talk about Verity Willis. Verity Willis is the shit. And I'm waiting for her to come back. Because she needs to. Because Loki needs her to. Because all this nonsense about being cursed and unloved and unwanted? Verity nips that shit in the bud. And Verity would stand there in front of Naglfar, and be like, 'Yeah, I know you think you're telling the truth, dipshit, but just you think it's true does not mean that it's true.'
And I think Loki needs to hear that. So they can stop feeling sorry for themself and start doing some shit.
#i've intended to write this for weeks#only managed to get the words down because i wrote something#at 2:30 am last night (i'll post it later) and i needed to write context for it#loki#loki comics#loki agent of asgard#spoilers for loki: agent of asgard#verity willis#loki theories
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Hold on, I'm having a thought here...
So thanks to Love and Thunder, we know Valhalla is a real place, and mortals (non-Asgardians) can be allowed in Valhalla...
It stands to reason that OG Loki who was killed by Thanos is in Valhalla with his family...
What if after Mobius dies, he’s sent to Valhalla as a thank-you for helping his Loki take his place as the God of Stories.
Frigga greets Mobius, thanking him for all his love and kindness he showed her son, and asks if he might talk to her Loki...
I'm not sure if OG Loki would have kept tabs on the Loki variants, or if he would know about Mobius, but I think it would be fun to see them interact 🥹
Anddd I'll write this story eventually 💚
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Chekov's Heart Shaped Gun - An Analysis Of What Love Means In Loki (TV)
What Sylki actually means and why it’s not romantic love. / How S1E3/4 and S2E5 prove that love is who one calls home. / How Lokius will prevail.
Let's begin our analysis in s1e3.
Sylvie says she can’t sleep when another version of themselves is around. She is stronger than most in the show, yet she lacks trust in themselves- then wakes up from her nap a scene later, but alas, her even saying that is interesting. On that note, Sylvie and Loki are variants of each other. It's only fair to say that they basically have the same trust issues.
Mobius is a trustworthy person overall but to a Loki that’s near impossible to come by as it seems. Loki sleeps soundly with Mobius literally across him, considering the fact that he too couldn't sleep around an untrustworthy person. He trusts Mobius, even before he met Sylvie.
Moving on, Loki takes the glasses offered to them on the train and drinks both upon Sylvie’s refusal to drink hers. The glasses and their contents are identical and have a green tint to them- which is symbolism to establish the fact that Loki and Sylvie are in fact the same person- in variance, supported by the cinematography of this scene: mirroring sides.
Loki drinking both can mean three things all together in this context which I transformed into sentences because I lack in English vocabulary:
“See, I am you, you can trust me.” – Which she doesn’t.
“I take what comes my way.” – Loki doesn’t go around looking for love in any shape or form and takes what is thrown at him – resulting in “whim-prone” actions.
“I can have my cake and eat it too.” as in Sylki stuff- which sounds like clumsy and desperate flirting to me, honestly. There is also the element of Loki’s massive ego in this context, which turns into self love and becomes less (self/)destructive as the show progresses throughout S1 and S2.
Why did they address Loki’s bisexuality in the show specifically? Verbal “representation” without context? That’s below this well-thought-out show’s writers.
I keep coming back to the wording.
"Would-be-princesses" - plural, derogatory (as in aspiring to be, but not one)
"Another prince" - single, specific
[Note: I saw some people posting that the timeline name of Mobius "Don" means 'prince', but couldn't find that specific definition myself in any online dictionary/baby names site. Best definition I could find was "brown, chief, noble" over on Wikipedia, so for now let's refrain from that specific definiton and focus on what is given to us plain and straight. I'll make this note make sense in the end of this analysis.]
Or could it be perhaps to give them a common ground to stand on? Nope. They don’t stand on that common ground, not even for a minute.
A drink. (Ding ding ding!!!!)
Yes, a drink. When he gets that drink, he sings an Asgaridan (well, Norwegian) song:
In storm-blackened mountains, I wander alone
Across glaciers, I travel forth
In the apple orchard the fair maiden stands
And sings, "When will you come home?"
When she sings, she sings, "Come home."
So who’s the maiden exactly? Loki dedicates the song to Sylvie, but never says it was specifically written for a romantic love interest. Not gonna lie, I might be reaching here, but hear me out: the lyrics can go both ways.
They talked about their mother and how Sylvie barely remembers hers. So, Loki, as he is, sings about a traveller coming home to a maiden, possibly his mother or lover, depending on the context at which the song is directed towards.
The only time we see Loki truly helpless against the world is when he mourns his mother. The purest form of love he has ever received, gone. Upon their conversation with Sylvie about what “love” is, Loki disagrees with it being mischief itself, instead takes time and a couple drinks and sings about a fair maiden- his mother calling him home. That is the only type of love he has truly ever felt for another.
Now imagine singing a song about your mother to another variant of yourself. Mommy issues much? Sure. Bad way to flirt? Absolutely. He basically shows Sylvie what he thinks love means to him, but also establishing a connection with Sylvie based on HIS mindset: They are the same.
No matter what the maiden represents, a romantic interest or love for a mother, these two variants are of the same kind in the end.
“No. Terrible metaphor.” Sylvie says. Fast forward to 3 episodes later in s1e6 she drops the dagger she holds on Loki’s throat and proceeds to kiss him, says they’re not the same and kicks him back into the TVA.
Being a Loki is not about being a villain and losing every time, it’s about surviving. To survive, they must adapt and adapting they do. They hold hands in s1e4 and a nexus event begins. A Loki, a so-called villain, in league with another Loki. No mischief, just loving each other- by each other by this point I’m talking about THEM as ONE. They easily could’ve kissed right then if their relationship was romantic, but they didn’t. They love themselves in that moment of an approaching apocalypse.
“But I’m not you.” – As the track “Stop” plays.- [The Sylki track that also played in the scene mentioned in the previous panel.]
Loki just wants Sylvie to be okay. He wants his inner mischievous giant to be okay. He wants his inner self to be okay. But Sylvie refuses this. She kisses him BECAUSE she refuses the fact that they can ever be the same or view love the same way. To Sylvie, love is very much real in the shape of a dagger, yet she drops it to the ground, then kisses Loki. Sylvie shows Loki that love is not what Loki thinks it is.
Love is not what Loki thinks it is.
Reality isn't what you think it is. -Loki to Mobius in s2e5
Fast forward to s2e5. Loki is in conflict with himself. – Thus, time slipping.
Everyone is sent back to their HOMES. Loki remains at the TVA when others are back in their original timelines- except Sylvie. She sees that McDonalds life as her home. So, that means, these people were sent to when and where they belonged before the TVA, or in case of Loki and Sylvie their respected new homes- also giving purpose to their belonging to that place- the when, where and why.
In Loki's mind, Mobius's home IS the TVA, his purpose, his 'glorious purpose' if you will. He searches around the TVA where him and Mobius spent their time pacing around or just sitting down to have a key lime pie.
Sylvie says that they are, in fact, Lokis of the same nature.
The acceptance.
Then it turns out it wasn’t about when, where or why. It’s about WHO. Loki could never have that drink because these two variants of the same species, Loki and Sylvie, are on different paths of life and love. Their roads have crossed but went their separate ways in the end.
Home.
It's about who, right? Loki could have found himself beside Sylvie in the McDonald's, easily, if he actually saw her as home. But no. He remained in the TVA, where Mobius once called home- which apparently he does too now. He belongs in the TVA with Mobius and their friends, with or without Sylvie.
This brings us to the smoking love shaped gun.
"Must've been would-be-princesses or perhaps, another prince."
"Love is... uh, something I might have to have another drink to think about."
2 people close to him offered him the drink he's yet to enjoy: Sylvie and Mobius.
The would-be-princess and the other prince.
"It's about who." Loki says, looking directly at Mobius.
He chooses the prince.
He makes it known to Sylvie at the very end of the episode, slowly turning to her: "I can rewrite the story."
He found his purpose in Mobius. He is the "who" that'll help him rewrite the story of time. He is home.
.
Thank you for sticking around till the end of this one. I appreciate any corrections/reminders of what I've missed or got wrong.
#loki#loki series#loki season 2#loki laufeyson#lokius#mobius#mobius m mobius#loki s2 spoilers#loki theories#loki analysis#sylvie#sylvie laufeydottir
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you guys wanna hear something wild? so you know my whole spiel about how the automat/pie room is a symbol for love and trust between loki and mobius? well what if i told you that the automat was phased out in the 1970s because of fast food chains like mcdonald’s? and who works at mcdonald’s? SYLVIE. mic drop.
#loki#lokius#loki season 2#loki theories#automat#sylvie#loki series#marvel#my thoughts#i love sylvie tho
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I realized something after reading a post by @trutrustories (https://www.tumblr.com/trutrustories/733352655481667585/study-in-loki-romance-part-1-ouroboros )
Loki’s time slipping might not be caused by an external force but rather an unlocked personal power. In ep5 when Loki realizes it’s about the “who” we have this long gay look towards Mobius (still not over that). Mobius is his who. After the pen scene when he first realized he would have to get his friends together, who did he time slip to? Mobius. Now, let’s apply the theory that Loki’s time slipping isn’t some accident but an actual new power to ep1. He got sent into the past by Sylvie through the time door. Maybe this triggered something? Every time he time slipped it was because he was looking for Mobius. He needed to get to the Mobius who knew him. And it worked! Because, once again, Mobius is his who. Mobius is Loki’s person.
A fun lil thought. I just loved the idea of Mobius being Loki’s person! (:
“For every question why, you were my because” (Walls, Louis Tomlinson)
#lokius is so real#lokius#loki series#loki season 2#loki#loki laufeyson#mobius#mobius m mobius#loki theories
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Good evening, Lokius nation! I offer you meta, and theories based in meta.
I don’t have the fortitude to crosspost this long thread to tumblr and certainly not before episode 2x04 drops. But you may read it on Twitter if you wish.
OR — PROBABLY BETTER —
As a scrollable article here :)
#lokius meta#Loki meta#Loki season 2#lokius#Mobius#Loki#Loki season 2 theories#Loki theories#Victor timely#ravonna renslayer#he who remains#LOKI WHO REMAINS#🌝 lokius is gonna be canon#the highlight is that Mobius may be Loki’s ‘postman’ across time#chars Loki posts
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So, Loki’s, like, a god for real-for real now, right? And he’s got a grasp on every timeline.
This opens up so many fanfiction opportunities.
Loki entering Mobius’s dreams and speaking to him (kissing him?).
Loki sending out mystic messengers to protect or communicate with his friends. Imagine foxes, wolves, crows, etc. coming to aid the TVA in battle.
Mobius or the others finding their way to Loki’s throne at the end of time. Sylvie was able to send Renslayer there pretty easily.
Loki talking to or even entering the bodies of other Lokis on the timeline. We saw him time slipping into himself from the past. Who’s to say he couldn’t do something similar now?
The list goes on. This is so far removed from being a death. The god of mischief and stories flows through all of time.
He commands us all to be gay and do crimes.
#loki#loki odinson#loki layfeson#mobius#mobius m mobius#marvel#mcu#mcu imagine#loki x mobius#mcu loki#loki series#loki show#loki spoilers#lokius#loki season 2#loki laufeyson#loki thoughts#loki theories#loki fanfic#loki fanfiction#be gay do crimes
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Not Mobius doing research about Loki for centuries because he unconsciously knows that he met him in the past and tries to seek for answers
#loki#loki series#loki laufeyson#loki season 2#mobius m mobius#loki 2#mobius#tom hiddleston#owen wilson#loki theories
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Ok
Okok
Hi hello
Loki episode 5 spoilers below because I have THOUGHTS
This is a lot of theorizing and just straight up rambling but who knows maybe you’ll get something out of it
Help me
The fact that one of the recap scenes TWICE this season has been Kang stating that he controlled every moment leading up to the moment is what’s making me think here. Because think about it- O.B. had to write the time manual in order for Victor Timely to create his temporal loom. And while O.B. stated that his work was based off of the work of Victor Timely, creating the whole chicken and the egg scenario, that first tempad prototype was because Loki gave him the TVA manual that HE wrote. He inspired himself. It’s a loop. Just like Loki pruning himself. Loki had to prune himself in order to go back in time just like O.B. had to write the manual in order to create the TVA.
And yes, he doesn’t remember this. But that’s because all of the TVA’s employee memories are said to be wiped when they entered. By Kang. Kang, who was Victor Timely, who had to read the manual written by O.B. to create the loom. But Kang can’t have O.B. remembering that O.B.’s manual was the basis of the entire TVA, so what does he do?
He makes O.B. believe that O.B.’s manual was based off of Victor Timely’s work. O.B.’s work was NEVER inspired by Timely. He just thinks it was, because that’s what he HAD to think in order for the series of events to proceed as they did. For the entire TVA to proceed as it did.
Also- notice how the room O.B. is in on the timeline is VERY SIMILAR structurally to his room in the TVA. Because that’s where it all originated. That was the foundation point. Kang couldn’t wipe all of O.B.’s memories from when he was on the timeline, because if he did, then O.B. wouldn’t retain the knowledge he had of making the tempad, or anything he read in his own book. O.B. had to retain some of that knowledge in order for everything to work.
So Kang specifically wiped specific memories. Memories that Loki had been the one to hand him the book. Skewed a few things- O.B. wrote a book. He remembers writing a book. So Kang took that knowledge and applied it to the handbook. O.B. remembers writing a book, and handbook states that he is the author, so obviously the memories align and his memories are skewed to apply the memories of writing his sci-fi book to writing the TVA handbook.
But then it’s a paradox. Because O.B. had to see the book to retain skewed memories, and so the book had to be written at some point… but when?
And so we’re back to the chicken and the egg. What came first, the TVA or the manual?
Also. We’re jumping topics.
Loki gathering everyone in one place. If you think about it… why did he have to do that? To figure out how to control the time slipping, sure, but… why did Marvel specifically make him run around on a wild goose chase getting everyone together?
Because he had to. Because it’s part of Kang’s plan.
Bring them all together. In order to do that, the tempad had to be made. The tempad which requires O.B. to read the manual. Which in turn leads to the creation of the TVA. Which means the entire group’s memories are wiped, and they are then TVA employees.
It’s a loop. As demonstrated by the beginning scene. Loki walked in, saw himself reading the manual, jumped back, and then was reading the manual and got called out by himself.
Same idea.
Loki went back in time to give the manual to O.B. In doing so, he sparked the entire creation of the TVA. He brought a group of people together who would become the TVA’s employees. And because he did that, every event of seasons 1 and 2 thus far could occur.
So in a sense, Loki created the TVA.
But still
WHAT CAME FIRST THE CHICKEN OR THE FUCKING EGG-
#loki#loki series#loki theories#mobius m mobius#mobius#ouroboros#tva loki#tva#time variance authority#help me im going insane#time travel bullshit#what the fuck came first#it’s a paradox#help#he who remains#victor timely
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question— I love the Lokius track and I just rewatched the scene where it first plays (and 1:37 even plays too, the most romantic part imo).
In s1e4, where Loki and Mobius are in the interrogation room and Mobius lets Loki believe Sylvie has been pruned.
Mobius says “what an incredible seismic narcissist! You fell for yourself!”
And then it picked up again in that same scene where Loki reveals to Mobius that they are all variants, which Mobius doesn’t believe him.
Why choose to play the whole “Lokius” track here?
Natalie Holt said that she and Tom spoke to each other about Loki’s feelings and the score placements etc etc so it’s like clearly thought out.
There were so many other spots to play that full track but they chose this part and idk I’m just curious to know why, any thoughts?
#idk help me yall im trying to understand#loki theories#loki meta#lokius meta#lokius#loki show#mobius#loki season 2#loki x mobius#loki spoilers#mcu loki#mobius m mobius#loki laufeyson#loki#loki god of mischief#loki god of stories#agent mobius#wowki#loki and mobius#mobius and loki#mobius x loki#tom hiddelston loki#owen wilson#Youtube
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Loki's missing centuries
If Loki had to time slip back to learn all that stuff for centuries, how many times do you think he did that? He wouldn't be able to go too far back, or he might risk messing up the future. He needs to let Ravonna give victor the TVA handbook, and then get victor to the TVA, so I'm thinking that the furthest he could go back safely is when victor showed up at the TVA.
I'm thinking there was about an hour between when Victor showed up, and when the loom exploded. Roughly.
And a year is 8,760 hours. So a century is 876,000 hours. The thing said "centuries later" so thats at least two, but I'm guessing it took longer because he couldn't just study continuously, and probably had to explain himself a lot. So let's say it was 3 centuries later. That's 2,628,000 time slips.
Two million six hundred and twenty eight thousand times that Loki had to watch Mobius and his friends die, time slip painfully to the past, then see them all again - knowing that these variants are about to die, and that all this work won't be remembered.
And he knows that in a way, nothing he does matters because everything he does or says won't be remembered. But he also knows that all these variants that are dying are real people, just like him. He knows that every time the loom explodes, a variant of everyone in the entire freakin universe dies a painful horrible death because he just isn't fast enough, because he is not the perfect all-knowing god he thought he was.
His mind after all those days, weeks, years would get tired, but his body won't. He won't have time to sleep or eat. And his body won't heal. Any punch or cut he got in that fight trying to get Victor to the TVA will still hurt like it's fresh. And he will just have to feel that everyday.
Imagine how long days can feel when things aren't going your way, or when you're in pain. Then multiply it by a hundred thousand.
How long studying for finals-week feels. Multiply it by 15 thousand.
How long high school feels. Multiply it by 75.
Imagine going to high school 75 times in a row, with no support, no breaks, no food, no sleep, and having to watch the love of your life and all your friends die a painfully horrible death 24 times a day.
Like my mind is boggled.
But during all that time, he thought that this was the best plan of action. Because at the end of it, he would get to live. He made variants of the entire universe die two million times because he wanted to to live a life with people who loved him for him.
At the end of the first episode, Loki came crashing into Mobius without any sort of temporal radiation suit. He survived being out there once, and after 300 years, and a whole f ton of time and space knowledge, I'd think he'd figure out that he could go out there and not die.
I want to know when he realized that he was powerful enough to do what he did in the end. Was it really at the end after all those years? Or did he just not do that plan because even after hundreds of years, he was still a little selfish. He would rather all those variants die over and over than give up on his own life. Just maybe. Just a thought.
I feel like a lot of people thought it was unrealistic that Loki changed so much in this show. But that last step that he took to become truly selfless seemed to be the hardest. Loving and being loved wasn't too hard. That took like days or weeks to get used to. But realizing that the solution was to give up his own life took centuries. Or at least acting on that realization. How long would you need to sacrifice yourself like that, given infinite time loops?
How many times would you let the world burn because you're afraid?
#So completely boggled#it was so much time#and he wanted to live and be loved and not be alone so badly#loki time looping#loki laufeyson#loki tom hiddleston#loki research#loki theories#loki speculation#loki spoilers#loki tv show#loki series#loki season 2#loki mcu#loki finale#loki thoughts
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