im just begging.. for the love of god... . let Glenn and Megan lead the writers rooms next season for Sunny S16...

My 14x19 Opinion

Jack in the Box

Good LORD I seriously needed a Xanax for this one! I’ve seen a bunch of you bitching about it, as usual, but really y’all just don't know how to follow a story. But let's move on...

The memorial service was a little awkward, mainly because we’ve never seen them hold one before, but this was their Mother, and she had friends so I can't say it wasn't fitting. It was nice to see they had some pics of her with the boys as adults, I've felt for a long time Dean needs an updated photo collection. It’s not like they don't have the means to take pics. 

So after the service, Dean goes off to the woods alone to cry. It struck me as odd because Dean cries, he always has, and we know Sam would comfort him, but maybe that’s the point. He didn't want to be comforted, he just wanted to cry, and hurt, and feel it. I can understand that. My heart broke for him.

Now we have Sam. For a long time, Sam hasn't been the biggest griever of death. He feels the loss, and it hurts, and he may shed a tear, but I think he explained why he’s like this when he told Dean “But we know the truth right? We know mom’s not sitting on a cloud playing a harp, she's happy, she’s with Dad” He’s comforted in the knowledge that his loved one never has to suffer again.  And to be honest, its probably this coping mechanism that’s kept him from going insane with the knowledge that he and Dean have both killed innocent people. Even if we only count the demon-possessed meat suits they kill regularly, just to kill the demon.

And then there’s Jack. How confused this boy must be really?? He’s not even 3 years in this life yet and he's lost everything by his own actions, which he didn't even mean to do, but he’s still going to try everything in his power to fix it. Sadly. this makes him too trusting :\

But now Cas was refreshingly reactive IMO. its good to see him angry for a good reason, and not being all wishy-washy. Gutting Dumah came as a shock, but hey... she made matters even worse. 

The Biblical style killings were pretty cool I thought. The worms eating the dude were freakin creepy. 

Now to my surprise, Sam goes along with Dean. Yes, this bothered me, but like I keep saying, Sam is the wildcard. He’s the one that doesn't always do what we think he’ll do. However, they made it very clear that he is NOT fully on board. This is tearing him up inside. He has to lie to his own son. He's literally the only one of Jacks parents to date that has never tried to kill him and now he has to lock him away. We can only imagine and speculate what's going through Sam’s mind in this time, but we’d probably be very accurate. Is this what Dad believed may have happened to Sam if his powers got out of control? Is this why he told Dean he may have to kill him if he cant save him? Was he pissed at Dean and Bobby for tricking him into going in the panic room and called for them while he hallucinated, and yet, he’s doing the same thing because he doesn’t see any other solution right now? Can he even live with Jack suffering in the next room? No, he cant.  I would call this OOC for Sam IF he was gung ho to get Jack in the box, but he obviously wasn't. 

Right now, we all see more of the story than Sam and Dean do, not unlike S12 with the Brits. It's not the writers being stupid or not knowing the characters, it's them giving us the stress that all dramas require to actually be considered a drama. One thing we all should have learned in these past 14 seasons is that this show fucking HURTS. These boys break our hearts over and over. Usually, we hurt for them and with them, but sometimes, they hurt us. Sometimes we may want to smack them or scream at them, and sometimes they may do something we can't quite forgive, but that doesn't mean we stop loving them. We see this between the brothers all the time, and sometimes between their friends and extended family. Anger and disappointment don’t mean you should stop loving. In fact, if you actually do love someone, you just can’t not love them. At some point, you can and should walk away, but you never stop loving them. 

Sorry (not sorry) I got off point. 

So anyway, yeah, this episode tore me up. It was low on broments yes, so no bonus points there, but it kept me glued and emoting for everyone involved. I didn't even mind Cas at all in this one. With the way it ended, I'm not 100% certain they see Jack, I mean we only see a dark angelic being. It may very well be Jack, but I think they left it that way for us to wonder. Maybe it was Lucifer or possibly even Michael since Jack did consume him. We shall see though won't we? It is the season finale, so expect curveballs. I don't know why Dean is pointing a gun at Jack, bullets can't hurt him... unless escaping the box required Jack to expel his grace somehow and he’s back to being human? So many choices!!! In 6 days we’ll know, and then begin a 6 month Hellatus, leading into the most painful season ever. Oh goody.... I can hardly wait. 😥🔨

So on a scale of Bloodlines to Lebanon I give this episode an 8. had there been a good broment, it woulda gotten a 9. But we did get some “Sammy” and I liked how we got Sam in 5 different shirts this episode lol

Re: your tags on that jack/amara post. Now the show totally got me to like Jack rather instantly as well but I cant help but feel like it was too easy, his actions during s12 werent realy adressed imo, he didnt really earn the "family" TFW status to the degree the show is framing it for me and there wasnt the dubious moral complexity early in s13 like s12 was setting up. Idk does that make sense?

Yep, it makes total sense and I agree. When the first few episodes aired and Jack was obviously framed as a lovable innocent, I expected them to pull the rug under our feet at some point- not necessarily to make Jack ‘evil’ (that was clearly not going to happen) but to question assumptions and, well, make both the viewers, the characters, Jack himself question his actions and his goals and everything. It’s sort of like season 12 was like ‘is this thing evil....?’ and the twist was ‘lol no!’ but the twist came in like 2 minutes into the premiere or so. In Kaia’s episode, the twist was again that he did not kill Derek the dreamwalker...

Jack’s ‘darkness’ were mistakes. He accidentally killed the security guard when trying to stop a robber. He accidentally got soldiers killed when he made the wrong tactical choice in the war against Michael (it was revealed as wrong because of the Kevin trap, and a trap by definition... is hard to spot before you fall in it). Other things were naivety, which is not exactly darkness (naivety/innocence are potential for darkness, but the show didn’t really go ultra deep in that).

Every other main character has been through actual ‘darkness’. The Carver era in a nutshell was that - Dean’s, Sam’s and Cas’ darkness explored. Cas’ self-loathing and depression stemmed from his inability to belong, Sam’s unhealthy attitudes towards himself (the trials) and his brother (*waves around*), Dean’s lack of self-worth that turn him into a tool-weapon/the lock to the literal Darkness (insert billions of words of meta here).

The Carver era was about them messing things up royally to the point that we were supposed to think, are these people righteous? are they right? At times we were supposed to be horrified by their choices. Some people grew actually uncomfortable with the show because the main characters were... unlikeable. Not heroes.

But that was supposed to be the foundation for a new journey upwards - the release of the Darkness (I’m not going into the topic of when exactly they decided to make the MoC the lock-and-key for the Darkness) was supposed to symbolize the externalization of their own darknesses to deal with them.

I think Carver’s mistake was primarily one: making the Darkness solely about Dean. Sam remained in a weird limbo for most of the season, and for Cas they had to bring Lucifer into the picture as the narrative tool to represent Cas’ issues (corollary mistake: Lucifer). I think they should have managed to make the Darkness about all of them, in a way or another (they almost did so by having Dean carry the Mark and Sam and Cas undo it, but that second part got dropped). Of course, I understand why they’d do that - having the Darkness as the dark, irrational, feminine, destructive principle of the cosmos inevitably means she is aligned to Dean. But then they should have developed things so that Dean-Darkness and Sam-God, but God was finally introduced when the season was almost over and things needed to happen and it was late.

Oh jeez, talk about digressing...

I think I never let go of my post-season 10 finale expectations, because boy, I was excited. The season only partly met my expectations. *screams into the showrunners’ direction* I’m still waiting for my big witchcraft storyline, guys!

So, Carver era, inner darkness, outer Darkness. Main characters who SCREW UP BIG TIME. I mean... it was a bad decision for extra-diegetical reasons, and executed poorly, but Charlie’s death did make sense in that perspective. What’s more rock bottom than getting Charlie killed? It was supposed to be the horrifying, ‘oh shit’ version of Benny’s sacrifice. Benny had reasons to die, they got a beautiful goodbye, all made sense. But it was a slippery slope- and now Charlie dies, and it’s bad, it’s ugly, it makes no sense.

If Dante had written me into the Divine Comedy he would’ve put me in the circle of hell for digressers.

Anyway. Carver era, darkness.

And then seasons 12 and 13. They’re growing, so their mistakes are not as big and destructive as before. In fact, other people mess up more. Sam goes along with the BMoL because Mary made the mistake, and he just wants to connect with his Mom. Cas is trying to make up for letting Lucifer free and fails, because Crowley makes the mistake of keeping Lucifer around. Dean is there doing his best and getting slaps in the face, because his life sucks. His prayer to God in 13x01 is GOOD STUFF. Anyway. They still struggle with themselves and their traumas that prevent them from having healthy relationships (I’m not saying the Dabb era is bad, I am really enjoying things). Insert more meta here.

Now enters Jack, who is supposed to be a mirror of Dean, Sam and Cas. Where’s the darkness? WHERE’S THE FUNDAMENTAL POINT OF HORROR ABOUT HIS EXISTENCE aka his ambiguous and scary relationship with free will? Dean, Sam and Cas’ struggle is with FREE WILL. Always has been. Genuine choice against the determination caused by their traumas even before by external forces. Dean telling Amara and Chuck to reconcile represented that - refusing to go along with the determinism of their essences (creation and destruction) and choose their own path.

Jack... we’re technically told that he refuses to go along the determinism of his Satanic heritage, but that’s... not really true. He is much more framed as a blank slate than a creature with an evil essence in him. That’s what he fears, others fear (or hope in Lucifer’s case), but he’s never tempted by his own inner darkness. Lucifer almost tricks him eventually for a moment, but it’s a trick, something he achieves with lies and manipulation, not really reaching to Jack’s inner evil potential.

There was potential to make his story a horror story without making him evil or bad. Look at season 12 and the way he ambiguously uses people for, well, good purposes - saving Kelly, saving Cas. There was potential there! He has good intentions, and does things with good outcomes, but at the cost of messing up with people’s free will in an ambiguous, eerie way.

That’s it, he could have been EERIE. Sinister and terrifying because he’s lovable and has the best intentions... but also does disturbing things. Technically it sort of happened, but wasn’t really explored properly - see the analyses we made after 13x09 but that were never proved right or wrong. In fact, there was an element that rang bells at the end of the season - when he forces the truth about Maggie’s murder out of Lucifer. That was the final proof that Jack is perfectly able to annul someone’s free will completely. But what about the entire season prior, and even the time as a fetus? It just stays something in the mouth of a Dean whose grief is used to make him unreliable.

I guess the mistake here is not making Jack a new Amara, instead. As @awed-frog eloquently said, the two had a lot in common in their narratives, but then a lot completely divergent. Jack should have been about free will like Amara was, and how season 12 almost hinted at - like Amara made Dean’s free will compass go haywire, it seemed that proximity to Jack made Cas’ free will compass go haywire. But then Cas was dead and even when he came back, Jack’s story had been written in a complete different direction. They could have structured season 13 so that Jack was Sam’s Amara instead (it would have made sense to have Sam not deal with sexually-coded manipulation from a woman, since he already has that with Ruby in the past, and instead be something new and fresh for his character), if they wanted to make Jack and Sam’s narratives close, but at some point they’ve just made the decision to have Sam be the Real Dad in contrast to Lucifer’s biological fatherhood.

Basically, I think, they realized that they had to give Sam a strong narrative that placed him as the antagonist of Lucifer, so they kind of shoved Cas out of Jack’s narrative (with awkward results - um we’re supposed to be son and father but err what) and made the fatherhood narrative about Sam. With awkward results. Narratively, Sam And Cas Are A Kid’s Dads is... not really a brilliant idea.

Maybe Michael Dean is the result of the showrunners realizing that on paper giving narratives to Sam and Cas and not only to Dean (like Carver tended to do at times) is good, but in reality the show works best when things are about Dean, so now Let’s Have A Dean Centric Arc. I guess?

I haven’t really talked about the extradiegetic aspect of the strong pushing of Jack/Alex Calvert, but I don’t think there’s much to say about it. Fan reception was immediately super positive, and 28 year old Misha Collins clone is sort of a safe bet, you know? The network seems to believe that fans want young pretty white boys, and it’s not reaaaally like they got that idea out of their hat, you know?

aye, really starting to loathe the “yaz kills either graham/ryan whilst under the dalek influence” like-

1. first of all. hate this presumption that graham/ryan have to die. personally, im fine with companions dying - clara’s penultimate exit in face the raven was done beautifully, i think, and i will FOREVER resent them not leaving it like that. however with graham and ryan? literally, i just feel like... it’s so cheap. it offers nothing, babes! and it’s just infinitely LESS interesting than if you just kept them alive.

all the companions, in my opinions, still lack development. i do love them! i really am warming to them. but we’re two seasons in, and the fact of the matter remains they just... haven’t gelled too well with the show proper and they aren’t as fully realised as they should be by this point. and frankly, its not one singular problem moreso it’s an interwoven web of issues (hence it’s hard to really unpick that, without unravelling the whole mess) that have affected the show completely. the point is, despite being here so long, they just still feel so unexplored as people and a little unknown to us and idk!!! i think killing them, wouldn’t offer much in the way of anything interesting - other than, like i said, a very cheap way to instigate tragedy, and springboard some trauma-induced development for yaz&13 - because we aren’t really gaining more than we’re losing here, man.

clara’s exit in face the raven WORKED because it had been building up to it all season. i also dont like amy/rory’s exits (but that’s v potentially my own biases) but theoretically, i can see the vision for that- and the reason why that would be so tragic, is BECAUSE amy&rory are so fully formed at tht point that that loss hits. im not sayin graham&ryan dying would NOT be sad, but it’s... just too soon, still, for me. and when, narratively speaking, they’ve been setting up them thinking about leaving anyway? at least, ryan has? just doesn’t feel quite right at all and just like i said: a pointless attempt, at taking their exits, and doing weird tragedy shit with it for the sake of it.

especially when the ALTERNATIVE is they can stay on in the same way martha did: on earth, totally fine, and with the opportunity to reappear in later seasons. they can progress offscreen in ways that can be satisfying, in the way martha did. she moved on; she became someone different; and yet that change was still guided by what we had seen. same can be done with ryan and graham, finishing their stories and making them all the more satisfying.

2. piggybacking off of that. literally, this scenario of yaz killing them: what would that DO for yaz exactly? like.. what big payoff are u expecting from her? you’re just... horrifically traumatising her. and im wondering, like- where would that leave her in s13?  because she’s supposed to still be here, then, and supposedly travelling with the doctor. and again it just feels so damn cheap: because yaz really does still feel like she’s at the beginning of her story, despite being here for two years (and god am i a little mad abt that; it’s so, so sad that she really could be replaced with a cardboard cutout for most of s11). explore what we HAVE of her, first, before trying to go so damn dark with her. it’s not going to have the payoff you want. you have to work a bit more, to do something like that first. using some fucked up shit like that, just as a springboard for character development it just- it feels so damn lazy to me...  and again, i do not feasibly see how this could properly segue into s13 on that damn note. like the conse

3. and just... god in general. i just. okay again with chibbers and his writing. literally i dont want to sound so negative abt chibnall bc like SOME ppl really do just fucking attack . KILL. over every damn thing, without a breath and its like... okay babe. okay. and i mean, granted i can be a little like tht with moffat tbh - and so  i get ppl do get a little FERVENT when it comes to shit they dont like but- BUT MY POINT IS. i really dont hate-hate this era of who. s7 will still be my least favourite, even if i do still regard this all as bottom of the pile stuff- and that is frustrating, because it really does have potential! but anyway god. what was my fucking point. oh yeah. chibnall. if this was the case.... if this really did fucking happen. god no offence but fucking hell i do not trust chibnall to treat such a heavy scene well enough. not with the way s11 and s12 have been. and its just because... again this is all the WEB OF ISSUES with these seasons... but all of it just boils down to: every single script really needed a second or third pass over. ITS LIKE, things are kinda right, but its always jsut...wrong and its soi many things that just dont quite work and  instead all work in tandem to bring this ship down.

too many companions, leading to a bloated tardis; leading to none of them getting enough focus; leading to weaker characters whose dynamics with each other aren’t always hitting. there’s swathes of s12, where the doctor is just completely disconnected from the companions altogether. she just doesnt talk to them. and there’s a difference between her being detached, and her just.... LITERALLT FORGETTING THEY EXIST. i remember- was it ryan who disappears at one poimt, and she JUST DOESNT NOTICE? and then all of them disappear in fugitive? like its just so... the companion-docgtor relationship is so INTEGRAL to the whole show!!! it makes story beats less effective; not even that, the whole energy is brought down, because they just don’t TALK properly (and the dialogue... good god, is it stiff: and whilst i hated 11′s era of mutated LOL THAT’S SO RANDOM. THE HORSE IS NAMED SUSAN. BOWTIES FEZ FEZ HOW MANY MARKETABLE RANDOM SHIT CAN WE THROW AT THE PAAAGE it felt like characters were bouncing off each other... there’s now these long pauses, places where it should have been snappier, awkward remarks thrown in there and then) . it, again, bloats EVERYTHING bc half the time you have to just give stuff for these ppl to do and its like man, why! why ! its all so.... sloppy in a way that’s sad bc it was ALMOST right. things are ALMOST right here but it doesnt QUITE work and it needs pulling together into something neater, tighter.  AND GIVEN ALL OF THAT. i do not think, with the way he’s been handling things, this man would ever be capable of pulling off something as fucked up like that in a way that has any weight even disregarding the two above points

4 lastly. just fucking dont kill ryan man. c’mon. how many main, black characters have we had? hmm, let’s see. martha, mickey, danny, bill. we’re going at a 50% survival rate, with the other two facing pretty poor treatment in the writing room in general. no, im not letting it go: you cant literally refer to mickey, who was the first, like, leading black character on the show, as a fucking DOG repeatedly.  if you’re gonna decide to diversify the tardis, pay your dues; dont fucking axe him for what, again, really just feels like empty emotional tortureporn. ryan deserves better.

Watched the final two episodes

And while the penultimate episode was def a good episode and on a different level of quality and writing than much of the rest of S12, to me personally it remained one of the least emotional and grabbing season finales of the show, but maybe that was due to how much was seen coming miles ahead, because S12 didn’t do any subtleties. Mary ending up with Lucifer has been hammered down all season and so have a few other things, but I’ll get to those in a bit.

That said, I loved Jensen’s performance. If only he had gotten more scenes like that this season to showcase his talent. @lemondropsonice adds: Big hurt!Dean love!!!

Rowena’s death was absolutely uncalled for and upsetting and just plain stupid - of course Lucifer would do such a thing - but overall the writing of the finale to me just showed that apparently Dabb has truly lost his ability to write.

Anyway… Mary ending up out of the picture was expected, I just hope that Lucifer remains out of the picture for good now too, even if we should get different reality scenes from Mary next season.

Now to what I did really love and what probably moved me most: CROWLEY!!! “Bye boys” ;__________; Sandy and I cried!!! This is how you wrap up a character’s story in a meaningful way. From S9 onwards with Crowley becoming more human again and remebering how to love and care and all that has happened to him and changed him from there on out, makes his death all the more beautiful, because he died for a reason, he died for what he believed in, he died for the people he cared about - the Winchesters who have been more friends than foe - and because he had seen his time coming. We have been shown Crowley’s going through the motions, his fatigue of the life he lead, so as much as I will miss Crowley on the show his death had impact and meaning and really moved me. And tbh as much as I would love to have Mark Sheppard on the show, I dearly hope they will not bring him back, because it would ruin the entire arc and the impact his death and life had.

And then there’s Cas’ death. I hadn’t expected that and of course it was the complete opposite to Crowley’s send off. It didn’t have any of the gravitas Crowely’s death had. Which is why I guess most agree that he won't be dead for good and to be perfectly honest, I’d have preferred then if they hadn’t killed Cas at all, but had him stuck in alternate universe world too, because bringing him back now after we saw his wings torched in the ground feels truly enraging to me, because it's just pure shock value and lacks meaning, because we all know he’ll be back. Unless he won’t be… And well if he truly won’t be: What an absolutely undeserved way to have Cas go. Tbh to me it feels very tough here for the show to get out of this in any way that won’t feel cheap and won’t damage anything further or remove impact, so I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Overall I did enjoy the finale two episodes, 12x22 a whole lot more than 12x23, which was cringeworthy at quite a few times imo, but yeah Crowley’s death ;______; that one was beautiful.

So yeah, solid ending episodes (with a quite a few black spots) that imo still cant fix or gloss over a complete failure of a season.

And on a completly unrelated note: Whoever thought it was okay to berate and “teach” Timothy on twitter for his spelling errors: You really are a stellar piece of a human being. Seriously, when I read Tim’s tweets, I teared up. All the well wishes to this talented amazing man!!!!

Alright, I’m going to get ready for the first day of JIB now. Sirry for the negativity lol. :P