Edits of an autism creature nonverbal communication image for Quadrant romance

Bonus: Flushed Pity Version

i wish more people in the hazbin fandom were homestucks man

it’s so glaringly obvious to me that vox has the BIGGEST pitch crush on alastor

ATTENTION BITCHES WHO SHIP RADIOAPPLE

I know what you are

♤crotuna is double awful to me as a mituna liker and also guy who is obsesessed with troll society. like thats not how kismessitude works its a rivalry you cant just put to people who dont like each other together and call it pitch. can anyone hear me. its so dark in here.

ALSO when people act like cronus couldnt abuse mituna if they were in spades... KILLING YOU WITH MY MIND. did everyone just forget about terezi and gsmzee???

Pitch is Rivalry, yeah. Competitive Self Betterment. A lot of people seem to forget some genuine affection is necessary for BlackRom to work out and that there's clear distinction between "BlackRom" and "Just Hating Someone". The reason they can get so intense is because you care about the other party. It's a hell of a lot easier to get mad at something if you care about it, either because you love that thing or because it's negatively impacting something you love. It's why politics get people so up in arms. Politics inherently spell out who you do and do not care for the lives and rights of, and if that steps on groups that represent people that others care about a lot, they're going to get angry. Because... Duh.

Abusive Kismesissitudes are real and extremely possible, and I hate when people act like "Abuse" and "Kismesissitude" are either synonymous or completely exclusive of each other. Gamzee and Terezi were directly addressed as being in an Abusive Kismesissitude. There was a whole damn arc about it. Confronting the fact that it was an Abusive Kismesissitude was done in plain terms and on screen. It's pretty clearly spelled out.

So, yeah, fully agree. Pitch CroTuna is not fucking real and it never will be, because Cronus does not love Mituna and Mituna does not love him, and they're not in a god damned Quadrant. Cronus is explicitly just Mituna's abuser, and while this does involve Cronus sexually assaulting him, the mere presence of Mituna getting assaulted does not at all equate to either of them having feelings for each other, and if you so much as imply anything near contrary to that point, you are a sick fuck and should get hit by a car. Cronus does not care about Mituna. He cares about the fact that he can take advantage of the fact that he's a very vulnerable target that people will not listen to if he tries to speak up about the fact that he is getting abused. Cronus says that directly. He admits to it, in plain terms!

This is not shipping material, this is explicitly, textually someone experiencing extreme violence and bigotry at the hands of a man who does not care for the rights, happiness, consent, lives, and bodily autonomy of other people. This is explicitly someone getting intentionally targeted and abused because they are a vulnerable, oppressed minority group and the abuser feels confident they can get away with the abuse. Cronus has openly admitted to wishing that "culling meant what it should mean on Beforus", meaning making Alternian Culling methods - which is literal eugenics - the standard, so that he could kill Mituna for the crime of being disabled and get away with it. Nothing Cronus has ever said to Mituna even verges on Pitch Flirting. Not even close. It's just raw, unfiltered violent abuse and hatred.

If one is going to fetishize or romanticize abuse, at least own up to it. Don't try to warp canon just to soften and blur the edges. Don't get coy. Be straightforward and tag + talk about it appropriately, like an adult. Because if you're pairing Cronus and Mituna together, you are not writing a Pitch Relationship, you are writing Extreme Abuse. This shit isn't consensual, and the playing field is NOT even. Do not pretend like it is. Do not get coy. Be honest.

How would you go about writing a pitch relationship?

OKAY SO.

essentially, when you get really down to the wire about it, it's about respect.

the foundation of a pitch relationship needs to be some sort of respect, and equality. this seems kind of obvious at first, because, how the fuck are you meant to rival someone if you're not equal? if they're actually better than you, and they win every fight or challenge, that's a beatdown, it's not a rivalry.

the literal definition of rivalry itself implies that two things of equal chance attempt to succeed.

ID in alt text

they can't just be exactly mentally and physically identical, though, and it's possible for two parties to not be equal and have a healthy kismesissitude anyway-- as long as they consider themselves to be equals.

that's where respect comes in. one party may be completely unable to fight or fend off any attacker, and the other may be the strongest bodybuilder in the universe. and you could think to yourself, well clearly they aren't equal, because the bodybuilder could snap the weak one like a twig. but if these two people really had healthy pitch feelings for one another, they would exhibit in challenges that were not physical. perhaps these two people are equally terrible at video games. their rivalry could manifest around that.

the main thing that people know and remember about pitch romance is the fact that it's based on hatred and annoyance. this person should annoy the shit out of you, and that friction between you is what causes the tension for the relationship.

so, to write pitch romance, what you have to start with is two people who consider each other equal and also find each other annoying as hell. but you have to remember to keep in mind the respect aspect (hatred without respecting and being drawn towards someone is not romantic, it's just plain old hatred). you also need to keep in mind that the oblivious pining stage of a pitch romance can go on a long time, because a classic part of having pitch feelings for someone is not wanting to have them. because, how could you EVER have a thing for someone who bugs you so much?

now, when it comes to the actual relationship itself- once the two idiots start dating, that is- the main idea is that there's a push and pull. an ideal pitch romance is essentially an act of tug o' war between it's two parties. suppose in your general human flushed relationship, the two of you take turns planning date nights, to show your investment in the courting. in a pitch romance, it might be more like taking turns winning- if your pitch partner has just pulled an incredible prank on you, it is now your turn to come up with something even better to get back at them with. you can't be shown up by them! you want to win!

so writing the beginning of their relationship might involve a lot of dates that are essentially formal challenges. what these are of course depends on the characters themselves; nobody likes the same kind of dates and similarly nobody likes the same kind of pitch challenge. if the two parties have similar interests, like say they both enjoy gaming, you might pick that so they can sharpen their skills on each other and try to become better. if they have very different interests, perhaps they'd do something neither of them are super familiar with, in order to be on even footing (remember that equality is very important to a pitch relationship). however, if one member wants the other to learn how to do their favorite thing, e.g. fencing, perhaps they would train their kismesis, and the real challenge would come from seeing who can be more patient, the teacher or the student. there could be some real tension in not knowing whether your partner is going easy on you or not, but showing them you can work hard anyway.

that's what the honeymoon period would be like, in my opinion- tons of challenge dates and pranks, while the relationship is new and fun and fresh they're probably teasing each other all the time and trying to see what one can get better at than the other.

when it comes to later, deeper aspects of kismesissitude, an important function of a kismesis is to point our your faults. yes, they respect you, but of course at the end of the day they still hate you-- and the reason they hate you is because you're too much of an aggravating person to let your good qualities fully come through. if one of your flaws is seriously fucking up your other abilities, it is the job of a kismesis to force you to notice this crack in your armor, so that you can get back to meeting them on equal ground.

for example, if your battle moves are becoming predictable, maybe they block every single move you make in a fight and then tell you they saw it all coming, so that you know you need to work on your tells, or switch up your moves. you want to get better than your kismesis, and in a way you want to get better for them, because you want them to respect you and continue to stay in your relationship. this also applies to mental and emotional flaws; battle skills are just the easiest visual example.

important fact: a healthy kismesissitude, like any healthy romance, is good for both parties.

if one person is consistently getting beaten down by words and defeats by the other person, who refuses to let up, that is abuse. they are absolutely not on equal footing, and no one is getting better at anything- no rivalry is taking place. (a kismesis should only be pointing flaws that are actually harmful to you or others, and actually reasonably fixable. your inability to dodge a sword is something you can train to fix. being disabled for example, however, is not something you can train to fix. beating down on your for traits you cannot change is abuse, even if a kismesis thinks or claims they are well meaning.)

conversely, if someone begins to find their kismesis isn't strong enough or interesting enough to warrant challenging and fighting, that is relationship also unhealthy, and likely going to end soon. being bored with your kismesis means they aren't challenging you in your rivalry at all, in which case they need to get back on even footing- or perhaps you just aren't interested in them as a person, which means the romantic feelings are gone.

(consider, as examples of unhealthy pitch relationships that broke up: terezi and gamzee, in which the relationship seemed to exist mainly because of terezi's low self esteem, and vriska and eridan, who broke things off because vriska became bored of it.)

pitch relationships can be unhealthy, the same as flushed relationships. if the power dynamics are not equal, or there's some insane excusing of actions or abuse of power going on, that's not healthy. it can be interesting though if you're trying to write a pitch relationship gone wrong, but i'm going off the assumption that this anon was wanting my opinion of how to write a healthy and happy-ending pitch romance.

so that's sort of my thesis on how to write healthy and fun pitch romance-- there's a tug of war, a lot of respect, arguing, challenges, training arcs, banter, and exhilaration. oh and of course, what everyone who hears about kismesissitude first imagines- yes, there's hate-fucking. all of those physical fights where you try to beat your rival you're romantically into at stuff? obviously that's going to have a ton of sexual tension. erotically charged swordfights are where it's at.

enjoy writing :]

✦ quadrant based attraction - a revamp

the quadrant system is a model of attraction created by the webcomic homestuck. while someone has already broken down the quadrants into facets of attraction here, we figured we would take our own stab at it! (with permission from the original creator of course!) this is meant for anyone interested in the concept, although it helps to have prior knowledge! if you find this attraction model appealing, a wikipedia page exists that explains it well here, but we'll be going in depth ourselves under the cut!

and now for a more in depth explanation of quadrants and each facet of attraction! as you can see, there are four quadrants - matespritship or matespritian (heart), moirallegiance or moirallegian (diamond), kismesissitude or kismesian (spade), and auspisticism or auspistian (club).

they're divided into two groups: red romance fueled by love/positive feelings, and black romance fueled by negative feelings/hate. you can have multiple people in one quadrant, or only one, the concept of quadrants is polyamorous by default, but some choose to have only one moirail, kismesis etc. you can also have different sexualities for different quadrants! for example: you could be a gay man who is exclusively in matespritships with men, but could be in a moirallegiance with anyone of any gender. you could also be in an auspisticism with multiple genders, this is because both moirallegiance and auspisticism are usually based on platonic feelings as opposed to romantic or sexual. this does not invalidate the person's status as a gay man, it's just how they would do quadrants!

flipping or "vacillating" between quadrants is a natural occurrence as well. the feelings you may have for someone can be complicated and if you feel you'd want to be moirails with someone as opposed to in a kismesissitude or any other form of vacillation it's just something to talk over with your quadmate!

now, specifics for each quadrant will be under the cut!

dni link

red romance -

matesprites: matespriteship is closest to what we know as traditional romance, it is love for another person romantically and being in a relationship with them. it is also known as the flush quadrant. it's an alternative to traditional romance in the sense that it's a few new terms for how we view romance. singular: matesprite informal: flushmate verbal: i'm in hearts with x, i'm flush for x symbol: <3, ♥

moirails: moirallegiance is equated better in human terms to queerplatonic relationships, and it's an incredibly important quadrant. it is important to note that while close to a queerplatonic human relationship, it is still a form of romance and should be treated as such. moirails keep each other stable and grounded, they are there to help one another and they are extremely close. they participate in moirail based activities such as feelings jams, sessions in which the moirails will vent or talk about their feelings with support from their moirail. there are also shoosh paps, in which you shoosh someone to calm them and pap them as well (a little pat to ground them). your moirail also checks over relationships you have, they are in charge of keeping you safe as you are in charge of keeping them safe, it is a mutual support system based on deep love for one another! moirallegiance is a conciliatory quadrant, meaning it is typically not a sexual relationship, but every moirallegiance is different and has different boundaries/ways of existing! it's not all the fluffiest stuff, you can always have banter with your moirail, as long as deep down you both know how much you both care for one another. in the end it's all about how YOU work with your relationships! singular: moirail informal: palemate/diamond verbal: i'm in diamonds with x, i'm pale for x symbol: <>, ♦

black romance -

kismesis: a kismesissitude is a relationship founded on mutual respect and hatred. usually a kismesis is accompanied by underlying sexual attraction but you can be any orientation and have a kismesis. there are of course different ways to be in a kismesis with someone, but the general concept is that you both hate each other in ways that will build the other up, the constant one uppage of the relationship forces either kismesis to try and be a better person than they once were, either to prove a point or to rub it in the face of their kismesis. the most important thing to remember though is a kismesis is founded on respect just as much as it is hatred. without respect, it could very quickly turn abusive, which is obviously not okay. when dealt with healthily, a kismesis is a very good quadrant to have, it stabilizes the rest of your quadrants by giving you someone who you can be angry with and at, someone who will be angry with and at you, and someone who will constantly challenge you as a person. there is often times lots of banter/snarky remarks. singular: kismesis informal: pitchmate/spade verbal: I'm in spades with x, I'm pitch for x symbol: <3<, ♠

auspistice: an auspisticism involves three people: two people who would be in a kismesis and one who mediates between them. the auspice is in charge of making sure two in a hypothetical kismesis don't get out of hand and harm each other or others around them, as its an entirely possible occurance. when you are an auspice it is your job to make sure that your pair stay in line, if they don't there could be dire consequences and people could get hurt. the auspice is the only one feeling ashen for the pair, as the pair are constantly attempting to be in a kismesissitude. there are often feelings of fond exasperation towards an auspice's pair.

singular: auspistice informal: ashenmate/clubs verbal: I'm in clubs with x, I'm ashen for x symbol: o8<, ♣

kismesissitude is actually good

i just saw a garbage take about how having a kismesis is apparently "incredibly unhealthy" and never before have i so quickly into someones garbage little essay realized that they have absolutely no idea what theyre talking about. as someone in a genuine kismesissitude i figure i should set the record straight. lets dive into why kismesissitudes are actually pretty healthy and good to have.

for starters, what even *is* a kismesissitude? the very first comparison were given to human relationships is "an especially potent arch-rivalry" (p. 2395). in fact this is basically the *only* explanation of it were actually given aside from an example of a kismesissitude in the form of jack noir and the black queen in their various incarnations across timelines and universes. over time it would be compared to "hate-dating" with caliginous sex often being referred to as just "hate-fucking", but arguably the fanbase has focused primarily on the "hate" aspect.

thats a valid thing to attach to as its the simplest way to explain it to humans. the red quadrants are like love and the black quadrants are like hate. the problem is, the simplest explanation isnt always the most accurate. this is especially so when the very first explanation of it within the text explicitly states that its more akin to an arch-rivalry, without any real mention of just plain hatred, unless you count the initial acknowledgement on page 2393 explaining the quadrant system as a whole expressing that blackrom is "rooted in the strongly negative [feelings]".

so then, if the spades quadrant *isnt* about just hate-fucking and hate-dating, what is it about?

i dont think i need to say it a third time, but i probably should: its a rivalry. your kismesis is not your enemy. they are your rival. they are not just someone you direct all of your negative feelings and emotions towards. they are someone you might *hate* but someone you also *respect* (p. 7490).

this is why gamzee <3< terezi is expressly described as an unhealthy example of blackrom. gamzee doesnt respect terezi. his actions in their relationship are not an example of a healthy kismesissitude but rather a deeply abusive one. in contrast though, vriska <3< tavros is also *not* a good case study of why kismesissitude as a concept is unhealthy but rather just yet another example of an unhealthy spades relationship, though one less due to a lack of respect and more due to karkats likely accurate diagnosis of tavros as being unable to actually summon enough hate for a kismesissitude to even work.

so let me properly explain what a kismesis is. a kismesis is a romantic partner who you in some capacity harbor negative feelings towards who you see as a rival. and what does a rival do? a rival challenges you. a caliginous relationship doesnt have to be particularly hateful even, just focused on challenging each other thru your negative feelings of each other. having a kismesis is about committing to mutual improvement, both of yourselves and each other, by continually providing a challenge for the other to overcome.

this is even supported by the text. look at karkats explanation to june about how having a kismesis who *didnt* "possess any qualities you [admire] on some level" is both boring and wouldnt work. the "essence of black romance" is in how you would honestly really like and get along with your kismesis if it werent for all their "infuriating flaws, and the incredible sense of frustration that causes" (p. 7490).

implying that blackrom is inherently unhealthy and pointing to the literal actual examples of *bad* spades relationships as your evidence is as flawed as pointing to an abusive human relationship and therefore deciding that all human romance is inherently unhealthy and abusive. it betrays a fundamental misunderstanding of what youre even talking about. its factually incorrect on a level beyond just being wrong about something. hell its honestly kind of insulting.

kismesissitude is beautiful and healthy as long as you understand what youre getting into and dont rush headfirst into something you genuinely dont even get. its not enough to just hate someone. its not even *about* hating someone. its about *why* you hate them. *why* you feel so strongly negative about them. its about *daring* each other to rise above your faults and learn from them so you can be a stronger, better, healthier person (or non-person if you are not in fact a person).

Sans Undertale and Reigen from #Reigensweep are vacillating between Kismesis and Matesprits! You may not know this but they married and had a divorce and remarried and redivorced during the tumblr sexyman twitter polls. this is true they told me themselves

(Requested by anon!)

becau2e mod eleven cant 2pell it correctly to 2ave hi2 life

[IT SHOULD BE SPE11ED K1SMES1STUDE I DON'T CARE I'M RIGHT.]

homestuck quadrants!! because i have autism and i like reading too much into them. 

pls note this is my personal reading of them and while i am extremely confident in my definitions the way theyre defined leaves some of it up for interpretation. im welcome to hearing other interpretations!! also i can clarify if needed :3

i think its important to start off with something very very very important

all quadrants are ROMANTIC, including both the pale quadrant and the ashen quadrant. it is troll romance! please don't ship siblings as moirails i promise it is not platonic thank you!!

all quadrants are based on a mutual care and respect. there is affection! there is admiration! basically, despite not using the word love, ALL quadrants are based on that deep caring and affection that love usually would 

hussie didn't make great examples for most of these but meowrails is a good moirail example so hey thats a win

matesprits! pity/flushed/red romance

in canon it's described as the closest thing to human romance, but it is more complicated than that because instead of a relationship based on love like human romance is, it's based on PITY. 

most regularly you do the same stuff as you would in a human relationship, and theyre functionally VERY similar, the main factor is pity instead of love!! as my friend hal said, "what a pathetic man... i need to take care of you"

moirails! pale romance

in canon it's described as platonic soulmates, but also throw that out the window because it is troll Romance. theyre there to pacify and sort of like ground and balance each other. it's also said in canon that it has sort of a fate thing and that it just Happens. So. take that as you will

in a moiraillegiance you deeply care for your moirail! much like you do for whatever other quadrants but you sort of do more of a protecting / improving role there too. pale and black quadrants have a lot of overlap!! blackrom is just hate pushing for improvement whereas palerom is affection and concern pushing for improvement. 

kismesissitude! hate/black romance

in the most basic way i can describe it, blackrom is having a mutual respect for someones positive traits but having a greater hatred for their negative ones. 

it's like "if you didnt have all these bad traits, you'd be great." and you push each other to get better and fix those worse things about yourself out of a deep caring for them!! the bad traits are seen as ways you can improve and you put effort into bettering each other and yourselves because you see the good they can be. my quote this time "wow you're a pathetic man. get better about it this is pathetic."

auspisticism / ashen romance

ashenrom is a more interesting quadrant because even in canon it's not explored very much?? there are some mentions but it isn't expanded on. they exist mostly to keep kismesissitudes healthy OR to prevent any pitch infidelity. 

it is ALSO romantic (TROLL ROMANCE.) and comes from a place of caring from the parties involved. theres mediating! support! they make sure everything is ok between trolls and mostly are there to keep things from getting COMPLETELY out of hand. hal quote again. "you are both so pathetic. stop."

basically trolls seek out the most miserable whelps for their quadrants usually. just a little bit. half joking

Negotiation.

if u use homestuck quadrants in 2022 u r fuckin brilliant and i fuckin love u

Does no-one realize the potential of Rose <3< Nepeta (Pitch/Caliginous RoseNep)? Like Rose is so restrained about her emotions and stuff, while Nepeta is so unabashed about her interests and personality, and Rose is very likely envious about it to the point of pissing her off, and try to make Nepeta to act more "Seriously" and Structured. This would also contrast and fit in with Jasprose's feelings for Nepeta.

hi! I was behind the writing of the Aravris section in the Kismesissitude Zine Game

i also have an unpop opinion of my own which is: karkat <3< sollux has more chemistry than eridan <3< sollux. my dude did not gaf about fishboy be serious

I for real never got the hype around EriSol. I’m a BlackRom enthusiast. I’m gay. I’ve tried. I’ve tried so hard. I just don’t see it.

EriSol is just the DirkJake of BlackRom. Everyone acts like it’s the most fucked up yet most fluffy thing in the world and that it’s this vast expansive storyline, but in reality it’s pretty mid, lacks chemistry, and doesn’t really have any screen time. I struggle to be compelled by it.

It’s not a war crime to be into it or anything, I just don’t see it. It’s like your favorite drink being tap water. Good for you, I guess?

What is a war crime is acting like it’s the poster child of BlackRom. That’s SnowSlick. Boooooo.

I'm sorry I was suddenly struck by this: do Perry and Doofenshmirtz have an old-married-couple-like version of kismesis? Am I going insane?

they absolutely do! i was unaware that this was not, like, Common Knowledge.

i mean, they quite literally aired that cheating and breakup scene on a cartoon for children and played it entirely straight. actually, just watch that whole episode (“it’s about time!”). they canonically are in a committed hate-relationship, lol.

when you need an example of an exclusive kismesissitude, these guys fit the bill pretty much perfectly.