@pscentral​ event 04: love

julie and the phantoms + relationship dynamics

insp.

bonus:

literally hoping they break up in the last season

Why Mileven is shit - a submission-based essay, part 2/3

Mileven - a currently canon het ship from the Stranger Things fandom between Michael (Mike) Wheeler and Jane (Eleven) Ives/Hopper/Byers/IDK

they NEED to breakup (AGAIN) in the final season let's start w their character arcs rn. el was born in a lab and was raised VERY strict to be a weapon and shit. she escapes and now her whole arc is finding herself and being who she is separate to what people tell her she is. mike comes from a lowkey conservative family with parents who are married only to fit into the normal, not because they love each other. his arc, similar to his sisters' struggle in earlier seasons, is to not fall into conformity just because you feel like you should. both of these stories line up with the main moral of the show: be who you are even if it isn't "normal" ot whatever now how does mileven go against this? mike, and a bunch of ppl around el, in the earlier seasons keeps telling el what she should do/be. even in the later seasons we see mike refering to el as a "superhero" (which she doesn't like). neither of them feel free to be themselves around the other (shown by el lying to mike and mike being WAY out of character around el, etc). mike literally can't tell el he loves her while not under pressure. mileven sometimes parallels mike's parents' and sta.cy (a failed conformity relationship) and other bad relationships ANYWAYS it also reallyyyy pains will byers (who's been canonically in love with mike for like years, and mike's best friend) to see this. also, milevens keep harassing will/mike shippers on anon even months after the last season. like they have a hate discord server just for it. anyways i love mike and el but ohhh my god there is still SO much i haven't mentioned about how bad they are together (and how bad shippers often are, sometimes being violently homophobic and calling bylers delusional and shit)

OOOH IT FUCKING SUCKS THEY ARE SOOOOOO BAD FOR EACH OTHER JESUS THEY DON'T COMMUNICATE LIKE EVER THEY ARE BOTH CLEARLY IN IT BECAUSE OF THE EXPECTATION OF A ROMANTIC RELATIONSHIP MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE THEY CAN'T CONFIDE IN EACH OTHER THEY DON'T SHARE ANY INTERESTS THEY'RE HAVING CONFLICT MORE OFTEN THAN NOT THANK *GOD* I AM UTTERLY CONVINCED THEY ARE HEADING FOR A CANONICAL PERMANENT BREAKUP. NOT TO MENTION THEY ARE BOTH GAY AS HELL TO ME. YOU SEEN THAT "THIS SHIP IS SO CANON AND IT'S A LESBIAN AND A GAY MAN" TWEET? YEAH. FUCK THIS STUPID FUCKING SHIP NOT TO MENTION THE SHIPPERS ARE FREQUENTLY OPENLY HOMOPHOBIC. UGHHHHHHH KILLING BITING (this is my fave btw)

they have no chemistry or buildup unlike the other st couples. they kissed season 1 right after she asked if he would be her brother. hes very obviously compensating for something. i think i gagged when they made out in season 3. speaking of. thats all they do. make out. they dont really have meaningful conversations. this also comes from the fact that when mike met her she was fresh out the lab that abused her for like 11 years. she was not socially ready to understand the bounds of a platonic relationship let alone a romantic one. anyway mileven break up s5 will happen i believe it. if nothing else. cross ur fingers gamers

the sheer homophobia and general toxicity that the fans of this ship create is absolutely insane when their perfect (read: mischaracterized) straight (read: homosexually-coded) couple is judged for having toxic or incompatible elements is insane. the only good romantic aspect between these two characters is in a cringefail "wow this really doesn't work at all" i-want-to-put-this-dynamic-under-a-microscope-and-study-it-because-it's-an-absolute-trainwreck" kind of way. el has been abused and cut off from society her whole life and at 12 years old she immediately gets together with this guy at whose earth shattered after his best friend went missing who then has surviors guilt after she almost does which is misconstrued as romantic rather than unhealthy obsession and trauma. and so on and so forth.. there's just so much wrong they lie to each other So Fucking Much despite truthfulness being very important to them and they ignore their friends to make out (which is filmed in a way that is meant to feel uncomfortable btw lmao) and el doesn't understand mike's trauma from bullying and he doesn't understand how she doesn't want to be built up into being a superhero etc etc. and it's just so increasingly bad I want to rub my temples just thinking about them. they're just so bad for each other and their relationship has done nothing but make them worse in general but for some reason their ship is viewed as fluffy or cute or whatever the hell. anyway mike is so heavily coded to be fucking gay and in love with his best friend (and el can be interpreted to be lesbian coded) and I just need to get them out of there amen

I'm gonna make a list bc the reasons are many: 1) their first casual interaction they get together but in the same conversation she asks him if she can be like a sister to him 2) all their "cute moments" are them making out in the 3rd season with still absolutely no chemistry 3) their only actual cute scene is them dancing at the snowball yet in the same scene they portray the same way two couples that are not romantic 4) mike becomes a terrible person when he's with eleven 5) eleven literally GOT OUT OF A LAB SHE WAS RAISED IN and this is the first guy she dated 6) she can't even say he's a good kisser 7) mike can't tell her that he loves her (bc he doesn't) and the only time he does he makes this whole ugly ass speech up about how she's his "superhero" even though she doesn't want to be seen only for her superpowers 8) in said speech, while listing the things that he loves about her, he only names her superpowers + he lies multiple times 9) EVEN AFTER SAID SPEECH she is still mad at him and won't talk to him (probably bc she saw right through his bs) 10) she spent a whole 6 months lying to him about all of her life 11) mike is clearly gay and is meant to be with his childhood best friend will 12) mike idolizes her and doesn't see her as an actual person 13) eleven needs to be her own person (ffs she just got out of a lab) 14) the ship sucks and even the authors and actors say so

they have NO chemistry. they kissed after one week of knowing each other when they were 12 and eleven didn't even know what a romantic relationship was at the time, given the fact that right before mike kisses her she says "will you be like my brother?". they spent the entirety of season 2 apart with mike calling el on his walkie and el watching romantic movies on the tv for a year (then will is in trouble and mike says 'fuck it' and goes full protective boyfriend mode but this isn't about byler so i digress) and start dating soon after they meet again even though they haven't had a SINGLE conversation and are barely friends. season 3 comes along and the writers do their utmost best to show us how incompatible they are. their makeout scenes are uncomfortable, they break up at the beginning of the season and neither one of them seems particularly bothered that their first relationship is over. in fact, the happiest we see el in the entire series is during the time they're broken up, when she gets close to max (who she actually has chemistry with, by the way) and finally experiences freedom, being a teenage girl and etc since mike had been "keeping her all to himself" for like, a year. aside from that, he doesn't go after her at all after she dumps his ass (literally) but when he and will have a fight, he bikes across town in the rain just to apologize, that boy is GAY. finally, the theme of season 4 is lies and once again, mike and el spend the season apart (once again, mike spends the season with WILL) and right before they part ways, they have a big fight about mike being unable to so much as WRITE "love, mike" on his letters to el, let alone say it, and he bullshits his way through it and refuses to say the actual reason until vol. 2, when he apparently "confesses" that he's afraid he'll lose her if he says it (okay, amigo, you're gonna lose your girlfriend who was literally begging you to say 'i love you' not even a week ago, aham, totally valid excuse). conclusion: they don't know each other and they don't act like themselves when they're together. mike hides his nerdy nature, el feels like she has to be the amazing superhero he's always viewed her as or else he'll lose interest and it just feels like they're both grasping at straws because this relationship has been dragged on for too long that they don't know how to break up permanently. they are afraid of losing each other, but not romantically, as mike was el's first semblance of family after escaping the lab and mike feels like it's his duty to protect and care for el. also, mike is gay. in other words, FREE THEM.

some meta about Izuku, Katsuki, and trust

and choosing to trust is the real bridge that goes to accepting that person as a part of your live again and what the offender has to earn. I think the interesting aspect of Deku and Bakugou's relationship is that Deku has always trusted Bakugou, and I would say more than he had forgiven him at the start of the story (where he does show more frustration and resentment towards Bakugou's behaviour and see him as a jerk) but despite that he can always trust Bakugou to him himself, attested to

the fact that Deku feels very confident about how Bakugou will act or what Bakugou's true motives are and probably the reason why he always sees Bakugou as a hero despite his hurtful behaviour is because Deku 100% trusts Bakugou even if he's doing something disagreeable or that will hurt him. Knowing someone and trusting is not exactly the same and I see it as trust because of Deku willingness to be co-operative. On Bakugou's side he is mistrustful of Deku and thats where the communication

breaks down and there has been plenty of meta exploring why Bakugou has deep rooted problems around Deku and his journey is him taking accountability of that and changing to be a better person. While understanding and miscommunication get their fair due I think trust and mistrust are the true bedrocks of the bkdk river bed because that allows for how they can still be so connected despite the miscommunication (with Bakugou mistrust is mixed with some trust) because of knowing.

anon I really enjoyed this, thank you for sharing your thoughts! I concur with just about all of this, and this ask got me thinking a lot about the nature of trust, and how it applies to Izuku and Katsuki’s relationship.

I think a lot of people’s reactions to reading the sentence “Bakugou and Deku have always trusted each other” would pretty much be, “???” and “lol what.” like, yeah, sure. they trusted each other so much that Bakugou decided that throwing a tantrum for ten years would be an appropriate reaction to Deku trying to hold his hand. classic Trust, right there!!

lol but I honestly think this is true, though. it’s just that there are different... levels?? types?? of trust. let’s go with types. there are different types of trust, and what makes Izuku and Katsuki’s relationship so interesting to me is that it’s kind of the opposite of what these fictional rival-type relationships usually are. it’s basically the difference between knowing, and understanding.

okay so first of all let’s back up here to make sure we’re all on the same page. we’re defining trust as “firm belief in the reliability, truth, ability, or strength of someone”, which is the Oxford Language definition and which works pretty well for me. you’ll note, btw, that the current relationship between Katsuki and Izuku more or less meets all four of these criteria.

reliability - both boys regard each other as dependable and are willing to rely on each other in a pinch (although Izuku is currently having some difficulty with that, but that’s another topic for another day).

truth - both are honest with each other, though not completely honest (this is the aspect that Katsuki still needs to work on, as he’s currently hiding his desire to atone).

ability - neither of them have any difficulty with this. Izuku admires Katsuki’s ability so much that he’s made it his own gold standard since childhood, and Katsuki respects Izuku’s ability enough that he made him his main rival, and never doubted that Izuku was qualified to receive OFA and become All Might’s heir.

strength - as with ability, this is another aspect of trust that neither of them has ever struggled with. in fact, a lot of their relationship struggles happened specifically because Katsuki never doubted Izuku’s strength, but feared it because he didn’t understand it.

so yeah. there’s a lot more trust between them than most people realize, I think. but the thing is that the type of trust they have is based more on knowing than understanding, and that’s where so much of their conflict stems from.

when I say knowing, I’m talking about the kind of awareness that comes from familiarity and experience. this is the type of trust that’s difficult to take shortcuts with, because it mostly just has to be accumulated over time. this is all about learning what someone is like through observing them and being around them. and it’s just as much about being known as well, because at the same time that you’re learning who the other person is, they’re learning about who you are. and that’s where trust starts to work its way in. it’s the slow unveiling of who you are, and laying it on the table piece by piece over time. and every time another little piece of you is revealed and accepted, and every time you accept one more piece of who the other person is in turn, that trust increases a little bit more. this type of trust takes a long, long time to build up, but in exchange the foundation it creates is pretty much rock-solid and nigh-indestructible.

understanding, on the other hand, to me is more instinctual. it’s about empathy and insight. and the interesting thing is that it’s possible to know someone for years upon years, and yet never truly understand them. and on the flip side, it’s also possible to understand someone within minutes of meeting them, even if you know almost nothing about them. if “knowing” is about learning who someone is, I would say that “understanding” is about learning why they are who they are. this type of trust isn’t necessarily always mutual, but it does necessitate forming a connection with someone. because empathy is such a critical component of it, it’s basically impossible to understand someone and not form an emotional connection to them in some way. this type of trust can be far more powerful and intense than the “knowing” type of trust, but the flip side is that it can sometimes be less stable and easier to break.

I think that the majority of fictional relationships, especially the ones that become really popular ships, are based more around the latter type of trust because of its intensity and unpredictability and potential for story development. the thing is, both of these types of trust are necessary for a good ship (and when I say “ship”, I’m talking about both romantic and platonic relationships just fyi). if neither type of trust is present on at least some level, then there’s really no foundation to start building up the relationship. so most of the time a ship will start out with one or the other, and then over the course of the story they'll work on building up whichever one was lacking.

and because of how stories work, the majority of the time we’re going to be dealing with characters who at first don’t know each other all that well. and so the relationships we get are ones where the characters first form some kind of emotional connection that builds understanding, and then over time they start to learn more about each other and build up that kind of trust as well. I feel like 90% of ships have this kind of dynamic. it’s the basis for things like enemies-to-lovers, fake dating AUs, and basically any kind of trope in which the characters get stuck somewhere and are forced to spend a lot of time together. it’s good, and it works.

but the fascinating thing about the relationship between Izuku and Katsuki, though, is that it’s actually the exact opposite of this. the premise of Izuku and Katsuki's story is that these are two people who’ve known each other their entire lives, but have almost no understanding of each other whatsoever. they know almost every little detail about each other, so much that they hardly even think about it. but all of their conflict is based on the fact that understanding between them is basically nonexistent.

and to me this is such an intriguing dynamic. the two of them know each other like the back of their hand. they’re familiar with the smallest habits. they can predict each other’s actions. they know how the other person thinks. and they have the kind of trust that comes with having seen the other at both their best and their worst. Katsuki is capable of letting his guard down around Izuku in a way he doesn’t do around anyone else. he cries in front of him on multiple occasions. he lets Izuku call him “Kacchan” long after their other childhood friends have stopped doing so. and even though he fears and resents Izuku’s strength early on, he also subconsciously acknowledges it in ways that even he doesn’t realize (e.g. “don’t you dare get into U.A.,” rather than “you can’t get in” or “you won’t get in”). he knows Izuku.

but he doesn’t understand Izuku. he knows who he is, but he doesn’t understand why. he knows that Izuku is strong, but he can't wrap his head around the nature of that strength. and because he lacks that understanding, this vital aspect of the trust between them is lacking, and is all too easily broken when Katsuki falls into the creek and Izuku tries to offer his help. Katsuki knows that Izuku is a good person, but he doesn’t understand that goodness, that selflessness, and so he’s mistrustful of it.

on the flip side of the coin, however, Izuku has the utmost faith in Katsuki. to him, Katsuki is the strongest, smartest, most capable and most amazing person in the world (aside from All Might). and Izuku, unlike Katsuki, actually does understand his childhood friend at least a little bit. he understands Katsuki’s reasons for wanting to be a hero. he understands that Katsuki is not just mindlessly pursuing strength. he understands that Katsuki’s motivation is about overcoming obstacles and beating challenges. and most importantly, he understands that Katsuki, in spite of everything he’s said and done to Izuku over the years, is fundamentally a good person.

and this is crucial. because, along with the bond of familiarity they’ve built up together over the years, it’s this other, one-sided bond of understanding that is responsible for their relationship enduring for as long as it did despite everything. as you put it, anon, Izuku’s trust is ultimately what becomes the bridge between them. on some level, he trusts in Katsuki’s innate goodness. he believes in it in spite of all of Katsuki’s attempts to persuade him otherwise. e.g. when Katsuki suggests that he go jump off the roof, Izuku is hurt by the words, but he never once takes them to heart, because he knows on some instinctive level that Katsuki doesn’t mean them. and so he grumbles to himself about Katsuki needing to think before he speaks, but aside from that he never gives the words another thought.

Katsuki would no doubt consider this yet another example of Izuku not caring enough about himself or taking himself into account. but it really is more than that. the reason the words don’t cut deep in spite of them being vicious and well-targeted is simply because Izuku knows that Katsuki isn't truly that cruel. and he knows that on a level so deep that Katsuki is never able to break it despite his best efforts. he can’t break it, because there’s nothing to break, because it’s true. the reason the relationship endures in spite of everything is because deep down Katsuki is fundamentally a good person, and so Izuku’s trust, in the end, is based on truth. and so it never fully breaks, and eventually, it becomes reciprocated.

and that’s what their story is all about. it’s two people that have known each other their entire lives, but have to work in order to build their understanding of each other. unlike many ships, they start off already having that foundation of knowing and being known, and so their story instead is about forging that connection of empathy and insight. and it doesn’t come easily to them at all. but they keep at it.

anyway, so thank you again for sharing your thoughts on this, anon. I didn’t even get into the topic of forgiveness, but I agree with you about it being a process of letting go of negative feelings and resentment. I also agree that forgiveness is a separate thing from trust, but I do think trust plays a big part in one’s decision to forgive or not forgive. it's a lot easier to forgive if you have an understanding of the other person’s actions. and it’s also far, far easier to forgive if the offender’s actions are long in the past. and because the latter is now true in Katsuki’s case, that shows a pattern of him learning from his mistakes and not repeating them. which further builds trust, especially in the “reliability” department. and so even though forgiveness and trust are two separate things, they’re still connected. and in many ways, by working to rebuild the understanding between him and Izuku, Katsuki is also working towards earning Izuku’s forgiveness, even though that’s ultimately something that can never truly be earned, but can only be granted.

I’m not sure if I’m really making my point very clear here lol, but basically what I’m trying to say is that while the relationship may have once been one-sided in this aspect, it’s not anymore. it’s mutual, and they’re both putting the work in. and Katsuki is also doing his part without any guarantee or expectation of forgiveness on Izuku’s end. it’s unconditional. he’s doing it because he wants to atone. and he’ll continue to do it whether he’s forgiven or not. and that’s important. it’s important because it shows that the relationship has value to both of them. and it’s important because neither of them wants to lose it. they want to fix it; they want to make it stronger.

and ultimately what that means is that the relationship will continue to endure, despite their ups and downs. because even though it may have started out as something incidental -- two boys who just happened to become friends because they spent a lot of time together as children -- it’s not, anymore. it’s no longer just something that happened, something that just accidentally came together. it’s something that they’re both working to build. they want to trust each other. they want to understand one another. their relationship is no longer something that simply withstood and persisted -- it’s something that is now being nurtured. and you love to see it.

so let's see, how do I even begin to tl;dr this post lol. something something blah blah blah trust, understanding, childhood friends, knowing someone, having faith in someone, being the recipient of that faith, and working to become worthy of it. they're very confused, but they care about each other a lot, and they are good boys.