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scottwbeattie · 1 year

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Review: The Incredible Hulk Epic Collection 6: Crisis on Counter-Earth

Smash Yourself Into Space

A funny thing happened this year. Somehow I went from having no interest in the Hulk to binge-reading 3 Epic Collections and over 150 issues on Marvel Unlimited. So when I say that The Incredible Hulk: Crisis on Counter-Earth was a blast to read, you can take it with a grain of salt, as it’s coming from a very excited new convert to the character.

If you’re on the fence about whether to purchase Hulk 6, then know that over the course of this volume Hulk smashes his way through:

-M.O.D.O.K. wearing a giant Rock ‘Em, Sock ‘Em Robots-esque suit

-Tiger Shark, who is just hanging out at the bottom of Niagara Falls

-Aquon, “half-man, half-fish, all hate!”

The stories are exactly as appealing (or unappealing) as they sound. If you already like the character, then you will enjoy this volume, but it’s not the collection that will change your mind if you aren’t yet onboard (in my opinion, that would be Hulk 13: Crossroads).

In addition, Hulk also battles classic villains like the Abomination and Rhino, goes on adventures on Counter-Earth, befriends Adam Warlock, and gets into shenanigans that are typical of a Hulk comic. The plots are fairly straightforward, and, as often as not, Hulk will simply be wandering around before stumbling across his adversary and coming to blows.

What I like about Hulk comics from this period is that although the main plots are simplistic, the members of his supporting cast are involved in long-running subplots. In this volume, for example, Betty Ross is put through the emotional wringer after marrying, then losing Glenn Talbot. She develops very complex relationships with Bruce Banner, her father, and, of course, the Hulk, and it’s all much more nuanced than you might expect from The Incredible Hulk. That the title was able to maintain these subplots (which carry on into the next Epic) is all the more impressive given the near-constant turnover in writers.

To be fair, this was fairly common for many of the Marvel titles in the early- and mid- 70’s, but 7 writers contribute to this volume. Steve Englehart scripts about half the issues in Hulk 6, but Roy Thomas, Archie Goodwin, and Gerry Conway drop in, while Chris Claremont, Steve Gerber, and Tony Isabella occasionally assist with dialogue. I feel like Englehart’s issues are the strongest, but the book is pretty consistent no matter who is writing it. A lot of that is probably due to Herb Trimpe, who drew every issue for 7 years. He probably tends to get overshadowed by Sal Buscema in many people’s minds (myself included), but he really does establish a look for the title. Granted, his designs for new characters are sometimes lacking, but his storytelling is very clear and flows well, and, I’d argue, he’s much more dynamic than he’s given credit for.

It’s worth saying again that your enjoyment from Crisis on Counter-Earth is dependent on how much you already like the Hulk. Since I’ve already read Hulk 7, I’ll be eagerly awaiting Hulk 8 later this year, which finishes Len Wein’s run. I’m also reading the beginning of Peter David’s run on Marvel Unlimited and debating whether I should dip my toes into the Peter David Hulk Epics as well. In terms of my next Epic, I’m staying in the 70’s with a character who is not that dissimilar to the Hulk, only he stabs instead of smashes: Conan the Barbarian.

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redbettyross · 2 years

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Betty & Mar-Vell in Incredible Hulk #247

#two of my faves!#betty ross #marvell #mar vell #captain marvel #glenn talbot #elysius #fred sloan #rick jones #marvel 616 #incredible hulk #incredible hulk v1 #sal buscema

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merrymarvelite · 2 years

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Cover of the Day: Incredible Hulk #174 (April, 1974) Art by Herb Trimpe

#Marvel #Comics #Incredible Hulk #Hulk #Bruce Banner #Betty Ross #Betty Talbot #Cobalt Man #Ralph Roberts

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misscammiedawn · 3 months

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DID Representation in The Incredible Hulk (Part 2)

Continuing on from Part 1 in which I explained the background of the Banner System I wanted to discuss the marriage between Bruce Banner and Betty Talbot Ross-Banner and break down relationships between systems and singlets.

This is a topic that is tackled often in media and one that could be its own topic of focus within DID representation.

Some may have a complicated love triangle where a singlet is in love with two members of a system or have dynamics where members of a system love different partners and even stories involving introjects of loved ones who are treated as living memories.

The romance tropes and "split personality" tropes really do go hand in hand and for the most part those stories are not what I would consider DID representation as the trope exists to facilitate the story. The drama is often sourced from at least one party in the situation not understanding or consenting to the dynamics of the plurality at play or a member of a system attempting to actively sabotage the relationship.

Where I would start considering it moving out of trope territory and into representation territory is when the condition is treated as part of the reality of being in a relationship and something which has to be navigated as surely as any other life circumstance.

Today I'm going to talk about the romance in Hulk comics. Particularly surrounding the relationship between Joe Fixit and Betty Ross.

Since the very first issues in 1962 Betty Ross has known the man she was in love with was both Bruce Banner and Hulk. Bruce's DID may have been a curveball thrown at her down the line, as mentioned in part 1 it was not codified until the mid-80s, but it was never a secret. In the previous part of this essay I noted that Bruce did not have the strength within himself to accept his condition and he was emotionally distant and ran away from the people who loved him.

Bruce has the option of not dealing with his condition. Betty does not.

Hulk is a rare comic where it shows a hyperbolic reality of engaging in a relationship with someone who has a dissociative disorder. Betty and Banner do not have a good marriage. They show a lot of red flags, some more worrying than others. But they deal with those issues and thus they display them on the page well enough to have a conversation about it.

And that's why I wanted to highlight it.

Immortal Hulk #48 (Al Ewing - 2021)

In this issue Betty and Joe have just had a passion fueled reunion that lead to them enjoying some private time in a hotel room. The circumstances are complicated but she had walked out on Bruce earlier in the story. Betty has been trying to show him the imperfections in herself (physically represented by her Red Harpy form) and Bruce has been refusing to engage with the "monster" in the place of his wife.

Gamma tends to make physical that which lays under the surface. When Bruce looks away from Red Harpy he is truly looking away from viewing his wife as anything other than perfect.

Towards the end of the Immortal Hulk storyline Betty returned to the plot and found that Bruce was still "hiding" from her so she got close to Joe instead and the two proceed to have an adult conversation about their broken marriage and just where Joe fits in with it.

We'll cover Immortal Hulk 48 in more detail a little more later. It's one of my favorite comics of all time.

But before I continue I want to point out Joe and Betty's disagreement on whether this is cheating or not. "You married Banner" "You're a part of him" to paraphrase.

Relationship dynamics with systems come in a variety of different shapes and sizes. In writing this essay I have no intention of stating any version is better or worse than another and I recognize that different circumstances have different needs.

Many of my friends who I know from support communities hold Joe's view. That individual alters have the agency to consent to be included in relationships with the system or not. Others hold Betty's view, that to be in love with the system is to be in love with every part of the person, regardless of whether they were present enough to consent at the time the relationship began.

I am in Betty's camp. Some of my closest friends with DID are in Joe's. There are other camps. But there is one thing that I have seen discussed in every single support group I've been part of and it's that members of the system dating outside of a monogamous relationship without explicit consent is and will always be cheating. Emphasis on communication and consent.

Incredible Hulk 376 (Peter David - 1990)

I am polyamorous and our system considers all of us in each relationship, even if we understand that this ideal is not exactly easily integrated into a relationship. I'll not peel back the curtain but there's a lot of inner and external management that goes into that conceit. One of our partners explicitly has a relationship with all 5 of us, our other partners have a relationship with "us" that is less concerned about individual dynamics and neither version of this scenario is preferred over the other. Every relationship is different. Even if one of those relationships contains 5. Like everything with being in treatment, it's about being flexible, understanding, compromising and accommodating.

As noted above, Joe does not consider himself to be Bruce and so he does not feel like he has to honor Bruce's marriage. In the 80s run when Joe gains his name and acts as a Las Vegas enforcer he has a romance with a young woman named Marlo Chandler. Regretfully she is not overtly mentioned in Immortal Hulk #48 though Betty does bring up that Joe had a whole life in Vegas that he had hidden away from her. Marlo was part of that life.

In the tail end of the Vegas arc of comics Betty returns to Bruce's life after thinking him dead for over 6 months. Marlo shows up and is surprised to see Bruce, someone she was told was Joe's brother. Joe and Marlo's relationship was formed while Bruce was dormant and after he returned the cover story was that Bruce Bancroft was Joe Fixit's brother. Joe does not consider himself to be Bruce and so does not honor his marriage. As you see in the above page, everyone else involved does not see it the same way.

A highlight from this era is a few issues earlier where Betty and Joe have their first adult discussion. It's an absolute classic comic and is directly referenced in Immortal Hulk #48. Betty and Joe have great energy together and trust one another, though Joe fears her as the system's attachment to her leaves them feeling vulnerable and lowers the walls between alters. It's a shame that this was 4 issues before the forced fusion. I'd have loved to have seen more interactions between the pair.

Incredible Hulk #373 (Peter David - 1990)

Sidenote that issue has my favorite Hulk cover of all time.

They don't have a lot of time together but Betty and Joe had great chemistry in these comics, especially when compared to how Bruce treats her. The following pages are both from the same issue:

Incredible Hulk #374 (Peter David - 1990)

Bruce does love Betty but he hates himself more than he loves her and she long has to deal with him putting up walls and keeping a distance. Where Banner fears the "monster" he becomes, in no canon does Betty ever fear any incarnation of Hulk.

She does however resent being coddled. Her father was overly protective of her because her mother died, her first husband, Glenn Talbot, was overly protective of her and now Bruce has picked up that sin. She hates being treated as helpless.

For sake of clarity and addressing the "early installment weirdness" I'll note that it wasn't until Byrne's run in the 80s that Betty gained a backbone. During the 80s period of comics Byrne and David codified her as a fierce and strong-willed woman and that characterization has remained with her ever since.

The reason Bruce is so temperamental about the woman he loves and why all the Hulk's, even Devil, are typically so good to her is...

Well...

Incredible Hulk #377 (Peter David - 1991)

I'll let that speak for itself.

The Vegas arc is not the only time that Bruce has seemingly died and been content to let his wife think he is deceased.

Bruce's emotional distance from Betty is another all too real depiction of traumatized adults who are not managing their symptoms. Trauma in all forms remains with a person and steers their behavior. In the extreme this can lead to phobias and mildly it can lead to avoidance.

Bruce is constantly driven to avoid pain. He is depressed, self-loathing and withdrawn and no matter how much he pulls away he is unable to secure for himself a sense of comfort and security. When he withdraws from his wife he is indulging in a maladaptive coping mechanism that tells him that he will be hurt if he gets closer to her.

A quote from Bruce in Immortal Hulk #14 "Betty... I know. I should have... called someone. But I--I wasn't ready. It's like I knew that in my gut. I couldn't face it. I've learned to trust feelings like that. They protect me."

Joe, who is emotionally removed from the source of their trauma, does not live in terror of the memories that haunt the rest of the system. Bruce may have repressed memories of his father's worst deeds (and the fact that he, himself, murdered the man) but he still feels the terror that is attached to love.

Devil overtly spells it out during the Immortal Hulk storyline by saying "Deep down inside. He's still that kid. A little kid who can't imagine love without pain." which is sadly an all too true reality for many suffering with DID. We don't need to be child alters to still be eternally living through events that happened decades ago.

In the Immortal Hulk storyline Bruce spent months estranged from her and when he got back to her she ended up caught in crossfire and died herself, only to awaken the gamma in her blood and be resurrected as Red Harpy.

There's a lot of Comics stuff there about Betty's mutate forms (Harpy and Red She-Hulk) and how gamma mutation is psychological in how it presents. All that is needed to be known is that Betty simmers with a silent fury. She has been treated as a trophy her entire life, protected and sheltered by her military general father, all but traded as a dowry to one of her father's loyal men, Glenn Talbot, and then long suffering as Bruce Banner's wife.

Even her Red She-Hulk form was forcibly taken away against her wishes by Bruce "for her own good".

Immortal Hulk #14 (Al Ewing - 2019)

For this reason after she is killed again, her latest gamma mutation draws out a feathered and fanged harpy, something she entirely identifies as with no shame, represented by her instant and intentional transformations between forms. Her catchphrase is "this is ME."

Bruce cannot accept this is the person he married. Joe actively admires and encourages her self-acceptance.

Here's a page where Bruce escapes from a conversation that he himself initiated because he cannot stand to face an imperfect version of Betty:

Immortal Hulk #22 (Al Ewing - 2019)

This all comes to a head when Betty approaches Joe and asks to speak to her husband and after switching out, Bruce feels cornered enough to lash out and demand to speak to his wife. Betty, realizing Bruce will never accept this side of her leaves.

Which brings us back to the hotel room after she reunites with Joe.

The argument breaks out when Betty scornfully notes that if Bruce objected to them being together then he should come out and say it himself, knowing full well that he will continue withdrawing and hiding from her.

Joe admits that Bruce isn't there because he's in hell. There's a very long and interesting explanation to that which is entirely literal.

But the point is that he allowed their reunion and passionate evening to persist without saying that. It clues Betty in to the fact that Joe may be better at hiding it and may be better at smooth talking than the system's host is but he is just as avoidant.

She does not take it well.

Immortal Hulk #48 (Al Ewing - 2021)

But here's the part that really solidifies these two as a pair of grown-ups.

Joe admits to his fuck-up, offers some additional vulnerability (Betty herself refuses to believe Joe is capable of vulnerability and lashes out at him for attempting to emotionally manipulate her) by confessing to his origins as a child's idea of a man.

The little bits of truth about the condition that spill out during this conversation truly show how much empathy Ewing put into depicting DID as accurately as he could for a comic about world breaking atomic beasts. "If I wanted to lie, I coulda said I didn't remember. We usually don't" and "I... we, All of us. The whole damn system... We're messed up" are lines which feel like they could come up during a conversation on these topics.

I cannot even tally the amount of guilt we feel in discussions where we know our brain should be retaining the information and that we want to remember and be clear but we can't. The hardest part is to not just lean on the condition as an excuse or out for many of the valid discussions that come up when navigating a relationship.

At the end of the day the only way to manage these troubled waters is with trust and communication, same as any other relationship.

Joe gives that a try, even.

Immortal Hulk #48 (Al Ewing - 2021)

DID is a hidden illness. It's denial disease. It is sourced from a level of emotional agony that is too present, too constant and too inescapable. It's why, until the age of the internet where ability to recognize symptoms without medical guidance due to knowledge and resources being widespread, the average age of diagnosis is 30 despite symptoms being prevalent from childhood.

Relationships with disordered systems are difficult. When an adult has a trauma response that causes them to dissociate, hide and reject sources of pain and conflict they will inevitably fail to communicate and cause additional friction in a relationship.

Joe here makes his absolute best attempt to bridge that gap. He accepts his failings. Admits fault and attempts to communicate with honesty and vulnerability.

I do not know where Banner/Ross' marriage will go in the future. There's a lot of hurt there. It won't be smoothed over with a single conversation. It won't be healed until Bruce is able to be present in the conversation.

But my heavens this is the most mature discussion I have ever seen on the topic in fiction. Bruce is the personification of the phrase "Hurt people hurt people.", he doesn't mean it. None of the system truly means it (well... sometimes they mean it. They have anger issues after all) but they want to try and be better. Joe does, anyway.

And the sad fact is that sometimes that can be too little, too late.

Betty leaves after the above page. A hopeful person can claim that she was summoned by Dr. Strange's magical call for champions but it doesn't matter. She decides she has seen everything the Banner System has to offer and needs some time for herself.

I look forward to seeing if we ever get a follow-up to this. It's been 2/3 years.

And that brings me to the end of this little detour.

I'll likely be back with more Hulk talk in the future. There are a lot of storylines to cover. But for now, thank you for reading my little squee on this particular comic book relationship. It means a great deal to me.

If you enjoyed my little ramble about DID representation please consider checking out my Media, Myself and I tag. Otherwise, thank you for reading.

Oh and buy Immortal Hulk. It's legitimately one of the best comic runs of all time.

#dawn posting #hulk #comics #bruce banner #betty ross #dissociative identity disorder #media myself and i #hulk posting #this is she #its mahvul baybe

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marvelreader · 5 months

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Tales to Astonish #61 (Aug 4, 1964)

I gotta be honest. This is my least favorite title in the catalog so far. Pym is boring and Janet is poorly written. The villains are all weak tea.

But that may change. Now it's a double feature with the Hulk and we're immediately raising the stakes! We're introduced to Glen Talbot, a foil for Betty's affections. And we end on a cliffhanger as Thunderbolt Ross has finally captured the Hulk!

Lee / Ditko / Bell

#marvel #stan lee #marvel comics #marvel universe #silver age marvel #steve ditko #ant man #hulk #incredible hulk

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randomestfandoms-ocs · 7 months

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🔁

Putting it below the cut!! I’ve tried to update it from the list I made way back when but I’m sure I’ve missed some 🥺😭 I’m sorry in advance if mobile makes the format wonky I will pretty-ify it after work to have headers and bullet points and a nice setup I just didn’t want to wait 4 hours 🥺

Descendants

Jax Hearts

Jax Hearts & Beatrice

Jax Hearts & Eliane

Jax Hearts & Evander Grimhilde

Jax Hearts & Gloria Gothel

Jax Hearts & Hannah Westergaard

Jax Hearts & Harley Hook

Jax Hearts & Harmony Of Atlantica

Jax Hearts & Keto Jones

Jax Hearts & Lovetta Garou

Jax Hearts & Lucette LeFou

Jax Hearts & Raina Gold

Jax Hearts & Rini Bing

Jax Hearts & Rosabelle Legume

Jax Hearts & Savina Stromboli

Jax Hearts & Trina Tremaine

Jax Hearts & Winona Sykes

Jess Hearts

Jess Hearts & Eliane

Jess Hearts & Gloria Gothel

Jess Hearts & Hannah Westergaard

Jess Hearts & Harley Hook

Jess Hearts & Raina Gold

Glee

Elliot Walker

Elliot Walker & Betty Fabray

Elliot Walker & Colton & Cece Cartwright

Elliot Walker & Jeremy St James

Elliot Walker & Jo Berry

Elliot Walker & Joy Schuester

Elliot Walker & Kendall Pierce

Elliot Walker & Savannah Evans

Elliot Walker & Abbie’s Dance Squad

Nate Simmons

Nathaniel Simmons & Betty Fabray

Nathaniel Simmons & Charlie Sylvester

Nathaniel Simmons & Dolly & Barbie Corcoran

Nathaniel Simmons & Jeremy St James

Nathaniel Simmons & Jo Berry

Nathaniel Simmons & Joy Schuester

Nathaniel Simmons & Kendall Pierce

Nathaniel Simmons & Savannah Evans

Marvel

Kit Barton

Kit Barton & Anya Barton

Kit Barton & Bianca Davis

Kit Barton & Cora Royce

Kit Barton & Dominique Barton

Kit Barton & Elizabeth Barton

Kit Barton & Kassandra Maximoff

Kit Barton & Peyton Parker

Kit Barton & Sabina Maximoff

Kit Barton & Sammy Barton

Kit Barton & Tyler Barton

Mia Barnes

Mia Barnes & Elena Barnes

Mia Barnes & Ellie Coulson

Mia Barnes & Evelyn Rogers

Mia Barnes & Grace Osborn

Mia Barnes & Jameson Barrett & Stefania Raine

Mia Barnes & Mia Pierce

Mia Barnes & Tyler Barton

Victoria Vill

Victoria Vill & Alvina Strange

Victoria Vill & Aris Stark

Victoria Vill & Athena Stark

Victoria Vill & Ava Potts

Victoria Vill & Diana Moore

Victoria Vill & Ellie Coulson

Victoria Vill & Grace Osborn

Victoria Vill & Jaden Jameson

Victoria Vill & Patti Parker

Victoria Vill & Pippa Ross

Victoria Vill & Stella Carter

Victoria Vill & Tesla Banner

Victoria Vill & Wendy Parker

Merlin

Delfine

Delfine & Elsine

Elissa

Elissa & Elsine

Elissa & Allyria

Mabel

Mabel & Aelia

Mave

Maeve & Lynette

Misc

Effie Munson

Effie Munson & Heaven

Effie Munson & Beth

Elys Herondale

Elys Herondale & Alya D’Angelo

Elys Herondale & Annabelle Bane

Elys Herondale & Cassiel Fell

Elys Herondale & Clem Wayland

Elys Herondale & Hannah Dawnwell

Elys Herondale & Rebecca Wayland

(Bonus: Jack Herondale & Talia Lightwood-Lewis)

Kayla Winchester

Kayla Winchester & Briony Harvelle

Kayla Winchester & Deborah Winchester

Kayla Winchester & Elle Winchester

Kayla Winchester & Esther Colt

Kayla Winchester & Ilsa George

Kayla Winchester & Nevaeh Murphy

Kayla Winchester & Phoebe Winchester

Kayla Winchester & Trix Stilinski

Kayla Winchester & Rachel Winchester

Miles Henderson

Miles Henderson & Angelica Hopper

Miles Henderson & Camila Nelson

Miles Henderson & Heaven Orella-Munson

Miles Henderson & Jacob Hopper

Miles Henderson & Jessica Wheeler

Miles Henderson & Kaylie Hopper

Miles Henderson & Kimberly Harrington

Miles Henderson & Rhiannon Ballard

Miles Henderson & Serena Brenner

Miles Henderson & Sidney Hopper

Miles Henderson & Stacey Byers

Miles Henderson & Valerie Rush

Rosalind Potter

Rosalind Potter & Adriana Flores

Rosalind Potter & Eurydice Crouch

Rosalind Potter & Gemini Black

Rosalind Potter & Holly Evans

PJO

Mike Lore

Mike Lore & Andromeda Jackson

Mike Lore & Ashley Wilson

Mike Lore & Blossom Talbot

Mike Lore & Cressida Brantley

Mike Lore & Crystal Solace

Mike Lore & Desdemona Gaumond

Mike Lore & Ellie Jackson

Mike Lore & Elyana Chase

Mike Lore & Esmeralda Wilde

Mike Lore & Helena Jackson

Mike Lore & Jasper Gabriel (& Blake Castellan)

Mike Lore & Jem Skeates

Mike Lore & Pandora Jackson

Mike Lore & Pyrrah Jackson

Mike Lore & Stella Beauregard

Mike Lore & Victoria Blofis

RWRB

Val

Val & Margaret

Emma Spring

Emma Spring & Abi

Emma Spring & Lucy

Emma Spring & London

Lena Richards

Lena Richards & London

Lena Richards & Lucy

Lena Richards & Madi

Lena Richards & Abi

#ask #answered #ginevrastilinski #crossover ask #(if you want to reblog it go for it but if you give me like 4 hours I’ll edit it to be prettier and easier to read!)

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