#because i don't just have a 'human souls' tag and i gotta stick this somewhere :'D
Note
Any thoughts on the differences between ghosts and demons, since Hell has been busted open but it's pretty much just ghosts topside (except Belphie). It can't just be time in Hell as the deciding factor - unless Jack the Ripper's been haunting people for awhile and just recently got his soul sent to Hell. Crowley's the only demon we really have a timeline for... I wonder if souls "choose", like Dean's "choice" to get off the rack and take up the knife when he was in Hell...
So... I don’t honestly have more than random guesses to go on here, but this is one of those cosmological things I tend to obsess over at 3 am, so I decided to take this directly to grey’s chattybubbles, and we had an interesting chat about it. I’ll just put it here because our rambling entertained me, and heck, maybe someone else has something to add...
Warnings for incredibly dubious math below the cut :’D
mittensmorgulI gotta say, your ask message is something I've been thinking about since last week, but jack the ripper's ghost has made it 100000x worse >.>I'm just gonna... ramble a bit in your general direction and see if we can come up with an answer either of us finds reasonable >.>Maybe it's a frogs and toads situation. All toads are frogs, but not all frogs are toads?i.e. all demons once were human souls, but not all human souls can or will become demons
mittensmorgulI don't know if it's their choice as to whether they become demons or not, or some other unrelated metaphysical process. But I've wondered this for a while about how crossroads demons develop red eyes while "regular demons" don't. So what makes a crossroads demon vs a run of the mill demon?
grey2510right
mittensmorgulI know it's not the same question, but it's in the same family of questions :'D
grey2510one of the things I was considering was what made them go to Hell in the first placelike someone who made a deal - for whatever reason - is someone who knows to look for loopholes and ways out of a shit situationand if your options are "be tortured" or "not be tortured"...
grey2510could also explain how crossroads demons are made... maybe the crossroads demons all made deals as humansit's a self perpetuating systemwhereas some psychopath serial killer would get sent to hell, but might not have the deal-making acumenif that makes any kind of sense
mittensmorgulI always had assumed that the torture was part of the process, and that happening in Hell was what turned a soul into a demon, you know? But if Hell is mostly just ghosts being tortured for their sins for eternity, rather than being tortured into demons within a relatively short span of time (one would think 140 earth years should do it...) maybe only some souls are even able to become demonsor there may be a specific process involved to turn them-- like witches who pledge themselves to a demon like RubyAnd Crowley, who made a deal and then ended up a crossroads demon
grey2510yeah
mittensmorgullike maybe there had to be a bit of something supernatural already staining the soul to make them eligible :'D
grey2510because we know it must have been a relatively short turn around for Crowley - in earth years, he died 300 years ago, but he was turned demon in enough time to know Naomi and refer to Mesopotamia (which doesn't sound modern) and to establish himself as King of the Crossroads
mittensmorgulBecause if it was just a matter of a choice, I don't think very many people would choose "torture" over "do this and you can become a demon which is bad but heck it's not torture"
grey2510yeahunless they truly believed they were guilty (but that's more of Lucifer the show's version of Hell)I don't have an answer but I thought Spiders George might have a few thoughtslol*georg
mittensmorgulyeah, and Crowley has STUDIED STUFF. I mean, he knows Enochian, knows all the major players, knows tons of unrelated lore and weapons and all sorts of stuff (including magic he presumably learned as a human)So he's been a demon (or at least not just some poor tortured soul in Hell) for a very, very long time to have been "King of the Crossroads" in a leadership position even at the beginning of the serieshe didn't spend 140 of those years languishing as a soul in Hell
grey2510yeahand he had it in with Lilith
mittensmorgulyeah, this is all just random thoughts, but I don't know if canon will ever make a statement on it one way or another.
grey2510I'd be surprised if they did
mittensmorguland Jack the Ripper was I believe Eugenie's pet Evil Thing in this episode, so I don't know that this wasn't just a random "I'm gonna use this because it sounds cool! Screw canon!" moment for her or what
grey2510especially since we have BL canon acrobatics
mittensmorgulyeah
grey2510yeah - I could really care less about Jack the Ripper but if that's her current chew toy, have fun
mittensmorgulI think Ketch is her current chew toy
grey2510well him too
mittensmorgulwhich I'll take over Lucifer or Nick any day:P
grey2510haha I was just about to say that
mittensmorgulbut yeah, as far as understanding the cosmology and metaphysics, if it's just BL canon I tend to ignore it as much as possible unless we get secondary confirmation of a thing from another writer
grey2510yeah - although we do have a little bit of outside of BL since it was introduced in 15x01but that could have just been the other writers tossing a shiny object to her
mittensmorgulwell the oldest of those other souls from hell that we saw was 15 earth years, the Woman in White.Which... I could buy she wouldn't have been "demonized" yet.
grey2510yeahalso - Lizzie Borden we don't know for sure because our Lizzie ep wasn't actually Lizzie right?
mittensmorgulShe was a deeply traumatized ghost for decades before being sent to Hell in 1.01yeah, it was a fake haunting, and Amara eating people's souls
grey2510rightbeen awhile since I've seen that season
mittensmorgulBut nothing in canon clarified if it was lizzie borden with the ax anyway, we just assume it was
grey2510truebut yeah - Constance still being a soul and not a demon makes sense
mittensmorgulAnd if it was, we don't know if that was scripted, or something someone thought would look cool and costumed that way
grey2510yeah
mittensmorgulBUT! I do think it's likely that most souls don't become demons, otherwise there would've been a heck of a lot more of them. And like we've been running out of angels, Hell was running low on demons by s13even by s11, after amara ate her way through a lot of them
grey2510trueit still does make you wonder what it is that makes some souls "special" enough to become demons
mittensmorgulI've always found it weird we don't really see a lot of "brand new demons"
grey2510....still waiting for Bela to show up and be like fuck all y'all
mittensmorgulBela should be queen of the crossroads. She made a deal, dealt with the supernatural, and deserved better.
grey2510seriouslyshe'd be the natural successor - she was pretty much the human equivalent before she got dragged away
mittensmorgulyep
grey2510i know this is also just early season weirdness, but there was never anything else about different types of demons like the shadowy things that Meg called
mittensmorgulthough I'm 99% sure the show can't afford Lauren Cohan, and I'm not sure they'd bring back Bela without her. Though as a demon she would by necessity be wearing a different meatsuit...
grey2510yeah - they could put her in anyone
mittensmorgulYeah, the Daevasand the Acheri demon we saw exactly once in 2.21 >..
grey2510or why wispy the pilot was doing his thingoh yeah that was the girl looking thing right?
mittensmorguland good old Specky from 1.04 with his airplane fetishyeah
grey2510i'm just going to assume that they were things that other hunters/lore called "demons" because they didn't have another name for them
mittensmorgulyeah
grey2510anyway, it would be fascinating to know what exactly the soul to demon process is all about
mittensmorgulbut human souls, twisted into demons, seems to happen by a very specific process. Like it must be done TO the soulit's probably all on the demon tablet >.>
grey2510haha probably
mittensmorgulbut they mentioned there were several BILLION souls in Hell, which seems... rather a lot... I just looked it up... about 55 million people die every year.
grey2510that's a lot of big numbers
mittensmorgulso about 20 years for a billion people to die
grey2510so not my area lol
mittensmorguland I assume the vast majority of them do not go to Hell
grey2510lol ok - i'm glad you did the math (i've been grading freshman papers all day so my brain is kinda fried)do you watch the Good Place?
mittensmorgulI mean if even Ken Lay gets into Heaven, then we have to assume the VAST majority of people who die won't go to Hell
grey2510yeah
mittensmorgulno I haven't seen it, but I've watched through tumblr :'D
grey2510the rules seem pretty laxah gotchai was going to make a reference to something that happened last season but didn't want to ruin it for you
mittensmorgulso if even 1/10 people who die end up in Hell, it would still take like 200 years for a billion souls to accumulate. Or 2000 years if only 1 /100 people go to Hell
grey2510so assume a few centuries to get a billion
mittensmorgul(and the death rate has not always been as high as it is now, with 8 billion people on the planet, compared to 2000 years ago, you know? so that's more math than I'm actually willing to do :P)
grey2510lolyeah spn's hell rules seem to be "made a deal" and "totally evil person"murders, rapists, etc.not much in the middle
mittensmorgulyeahbut the population of the earth even 200 years ago was less than 1/10 what it is today, so the death rate would've also dropped by that much, making it take that much longer for hell souls to accumulate.Point being, if there are that many SOULS in Hell, and not just demons, then apparently not every soul DOES become a demonand I REALLY NEED TO KNOW WHY NOW
grey2510haha
mittensmorgulGAH
grey2510it's been bugging me too, so i guess we can suffer together
mittensmorgulokay, I really wanna copy/paste this as the reply to your message, because I feel like my non-answer is a good answer
grey2510fine by me
mittensmorguland maybe we can have other people pitch in ideas :PI'm pretty sure this is the sort of thing Canon will never explain in detail, but it's exactly the sort of thing I personally wonder about the most.
grey2510so where did we land? something done specifically to the soul that turns them, but then also the question of whether there's something about the soul that makes them a viable candidate for the transformation?
mittensmorgulyeah, that's succinct. :'D
grey2510and then if crossroads demons are former deal makers
mittensmorgulalso if they've made a deal either with a crossroads demon, or as a "borrower witch," as they've been called by other witches in canon
grey2510or something else about them that determines what kind of demon they'll be come*become
mittensmorgulyeah
#heaven hell purgatory and the empty#angels and souls#because i don't just have a 'human souls' tag and i gotta stick this somewhere :'D#grey2510
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OC Interview!
So, got tagged by @robobrainmurdermysterytheatre to do my OC from Fallout 4.
I'm supposed to tag five other people, but sadly I don't know anyone else to tag who hasn't already been tagged by others, soooo here goes.
1. What is your name?
"The Names Celestine O'Kelly-Hancock, but everyone just calls me Celeste for short. Nice to meet you, dude."
2. Do you know why are you named that?
"Which part are you asking about?"
3. Are you single or taken?
"Very much taken. Remarried, actually. My hubby is the Mayor of Goodneighbor. Maybe you've heard of him?"
4. Have any abilities or powers?
"I've a natural affinity for swimming, and growing some of the best damn rad-weed this side of....uh....what were we talking about again? Oh yeah! I can out-snipe anyone."
*somewhere off in the distance you can hear Robert screaming out "I CALL SHENANIGANS!"*
5. Stop being a Mary Sue.
"Huh? Dude, are you smoking the same shit I am? Who's Mary Sue? Pretty sure you mean Mary Jane."
6. What’s your eye color?
"My eye color? John tells me they're 'Nuka Quantum blue', but I'm pretty sure he's stoned when he says that. I think they're deep, almost grey-blue, to be honest."
7. How about your hair color?
"Currently it's purple, because SOMEBODY likes to play pranks and fuck with my soap. Deacon, I'm looking at you!"
*A maniacal cackle can be heard around the corner*
8. Have any family members?
"Well, sure I do. There's my hubby John, there's Robert who is like my little brother. I've got my fur-baby, Dogmeat, and my adopted dad, Wiseman..."
9. Oh? How about pets?
"Dogmeat, he's a dog, obviously. Then I adopted a ginger tabby I named Deacon."
*Deacon pokes his head into the picture*
"Awwww!"
"Because he, too, is an asshole."
*Human Deacon blows raspberries before slinking off*
10. That’s cool, I guess. Now tell me something you don’t like?
"Something I don't like? I can't stand bigotry of any kind; you picking on a ghoul in front of me is a great way to get shot. By me. Because fuck you, that's why. I also don't like it when someone tries to fuck with my crops. Wait until it's done growing. Fucking weed-nappers."
11. Do you have any activities/hobbies that you like to do?
“I smoke pot, I crochet stuff, and hunt raiders. Oh, and I like to bake."
*Hancock wolf whistles off from the side*
"You mean get baked!"
"Oh, ha ha babe!"
12. Have you ever hurt anyone in any way before?
"Damn, that's uh...that's kinda heavy. Yeah...um...not something I really want to talk about."
13. Ever… killed anyone before?
"Dude, this is the Commonwealth we're talking about. Everyone out this way has killed at least once in their life. I might have a higher kill count than most, I mean, I do actively hunt raiders and shit...so....yes."
14. What kind of animal are you?
“A house cat. Yeah, happy, lazy fucker that naps in the sun, sleeps a lot..."
15. Name your worst habits?
"My worst habits? I sometimes sleep too much, and I may, or may not, steal the covers."
*Hancock sticks his head in the room*
"She totally steals the blankets."
"BABE!"
16. Do you look up to anyone at all?
"My adopted Dad, Wiseman. No matter what hell comes his way, he faces it with a calm and compassionate heart leading the rest of my ghoul family through it all with grace. And John. He saved my life both literally, and figuratively. And my mom...I miss her."
17. Are you gay, straight or bisexual?
"Does...does it really matter?"
18. Do you go to school?
"The school of Hard Knocks count?"
19. Ever want to marry and have kids one day?
"Well, I remarried, so yes to that part. As far as kids go, John and I have thought about adopting, but I'm....not quite ready yet..."
20. Do you have any fangirls/fanboys?
"I don't have any strains by those names. Got some OG Kush growing right now...Just hit a blunt made from it, actually. Smoooth po-ta-to."
21. What are you most afraid of?
"Fucking rad roaches, man! I'll take a deathclaw on any day, but put me in a room full of giant bugs and I will nope the biggest nope that ever noped."
22. What do you usually wear?
*Hancock butts in*
"She usually wears my face on her lady bits! Yeah booooy!"
"OMG BABE! NO BAD!"
23. What’s one food that tempts you?
“When I get the munchies, I crave Dandy Boy apples, and gum drops. I can't get enough of them."
24. Am I annoying to you?
"Even if you were, I'm waaaay too baked to care right now."
25. Well, it’s still not over!
"Huh? What's not over? Did I just miss a whole conversation?"
26. What class are you (low/middle/high)?
"If I'm stoned, I'm HIGH class!"
*Giggling intensifies*
27. How many friends do you have?
"Tons. You looking to add to my list?"
28. What are your thoughts on pie?
"I could totally go for a slice right about now. Why? You offering?"
29. Favorite drink?
“Vim classic. Good shit."
30. What’s your favorite place?
"I've got two places I love: The Slog, and Goodneighbor. They're the only places I feel truly at home in."
31. Are you interested in anyone?
*Hancock butts in again*
"She's married to me. I don't share."
"You heard the Mayor: He doesn't share. Hey! I made a rhyme!"
32. That was a stupid question…
"Waaaaait.....did I think that out loud?"
33. Would you rather swim in a lake or the ocean?
“Both. I fear no body of water, and nothing ever bothers me when I swim, at least. Might have to do with all the Vim I drink..."
34. What’s your type?
“My type? Gotta be intelligent; if you can't carry on an intelligent conversation, you can quit right now. I like a partner whose heart is in everything they do, and who isn't judgmental, as well."
35. Any fetishes?
"I uh....um...*cough* I like role playing..."
36. Camping or outdoors?
"I adore outdoors. Being out in my garden is like a balm to my soul. Camping is meh, but sometimes when I'm on a job, it's a necessary evil."
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