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#basically i have a lot of emotions and i love the whole arc
polyamzeal · 23 hours
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X-Men '97, Episode 5 - Writing Mature Jealousy
               I want to go over episode 5 of X-Men 97, titled Remember Me, because it has a very good portrayal of how to write jealousy well and in a mature way. Now since this a polyamory blog I know everyone is just going to assume I am going to say, “All their problems would be fixed by polyamory.” As tempting as that is I am not going to do that! Well the X-Men comics have recently touched upon actual polyamory representation I don’t think it works for this incarnation in particular but I do think by looking at it through a polyamorous lens we see some very interesting stuff going on that deeply monogamous folk might miss. So I want to take this opportunity as a lesson we can all learn from about how to write portray jealousy as a more nuaniced and interesting complex emotion rather than a one-note toxic trope we often see it reduced to. Obviously spoilers below the cut.
               So going to assume you have seen episodes 1-4 up until this point so not going to spend long on setups but quick setup. Rouge and Gambit have have had an unofficial relationship that everybody knows about for some time now. But as Rogue’s old flame Magneto enters the scene she has been tempted by him. Meanwhile, Cyclops just found out that the mother of his child is actually a clone of the woman he loved instead of actually her and doesn’t know when the swap happened. Plus the original and clone share memories to make it even more complicated. Now that the clone, Madelyne Pryor, has left, Cyclops is unsure how to feel about the real Jean Grey.
                I thought I would be starting further along in the episode but let’s talk about Gambit’s arrival in Genosha. Right away we get Magneto subtlety exerting superiority over Gambit yet Gambit stays cool and doesn’t show that it bothers him. He makes a comment about two being better than three though to show that he doesn’t like Magneto interfering in his relationship. But the character drama really begins when Nightcrawler talks to Gambit. He urges Gambit to marry Rouge but Gambit replies about how he knows that Rogue wants somebody other than him and he basically says that he doesn’t deserve love. You see, Gambit has done a lot of shady stuff in his past and while he may act cool deep down he feels like Rogue deserves someone better than him. So we have a dichotomy between Gmabit’s brain that approves of Rogue hooking up with another man and his heart who does still want her all to himself as selfish as that is. This internal struggle makes up the entire character arc for Gambit this episode.
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               But let us move on the first of many big shockers of the episode! Jean Grey kissing Wolverine! As Jean is reminiscing about what to do about Cyclops and how they have been distant, Wolverine tries to give her advice as a friend. But he also slips up and lets out some of his own romantic feelings for her. Unexpectedly she returns them with a kiss! I get the vibe that a lot of fans might have cheered in celebration, “Wolverine is going to get the girl like he should unlike that jerk, Cyclops!” But as Wolverine just reminded us, he is far more mature than that. In an act of true selflessness, he instead forgives her for her cheating and tells her to instead go patch things up with Cyclops. He made it clear that he loves her but also he has been down this road before and knows that he isn’t the best man for her and if he really cares about her then she needs to be with the right man for her, Cyclops. This is actually very similar to the dichotomy Gambit suffers but with a 100 more years of experience and maturity, he commits to his brain over his heart and without the same hesitation.
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               We get a quick cut back to Rogue and Magneto who gives this great line, “As with Gambit, loving you makes broken men whole." But let us have them on pause for just a little bit longer.
               Instead let us focus on Cyclops having a touching intimate moment with who we think is Jean but instead it is the clone, Madelyne, having a psychic affair with him from half-way across the world. Not related to the topic of this article but a nice little extra detail is that Emma Frost, another telepath, totally 'saw' everything that Madelyne was doing. But back to the affair, Jean interrupts them and a drama-bomb explodes! Cyclops admits that he loves both Jean Grey and Madelyne Pryor but again I am not resorting to “non-monogamy is the answer here.” Afterall a psychic-powered clone is involved here, more than just a twin, so not exactly normal real life situration. But it does bring up hard questions of how to choose just one. Again Cyclops’s brain is probably telling him the one he loves is Jean Grey, that seems like the right answer. But his heart loves his son and therefor loves the one who he knows is the actual mother, Madelyne. As such we have the 3rd brain-heart romance dichotomy of the episode except this one has the most uncertainty and confusion involved. On the other side with Jean, we get into the philosophical question of having memories of loving someone versus feeling love for someone. It is deep! The Phoenix urging Jean to travel the cosmos might also seem unrelatable to real-life but I think you can equate it to someone that has a job opportunity to travel and make more money but they would need to leave behind their lover, something lots of people do struggle with.
One last thing I want to address is again I am sure some fans are extra mad at Jean in this scene. She just cheated on Cyclops and now she is mad at Cyclops for cheating on her. This level of hypocrisy might rub me people extra rough. But I want to ask this question, would she have been more or less mad at Cyclops’s cheating if she did not just cheat herself first? I think either has its arguments but I honestly think less. She knows she cheated and messed up so now she is putting in effort to mend and fix that. Just to see that Cyclops is also cheating but not repenting like she did. This anger she is taking out on him for cheating is amplified by her own guilt and shame for having just cheated as well. Maybe even more fueled by being rejected by Wolverine as well. It is spicey but also very realistic.
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               Back to Rogue and Gambit. How is Gambit going to find about Rogue’s relationship with Magneto? In what way will he discover them in the act and cause drama? Actually, she comes right out and confesses to him. I love them avoiding that trope and instead giving us a brutally honest heart-wrenching confession scene instead. And again, Gambit does not react like a 13-year child, instead he calmly asks if she is going to accept it. Explains how he has respected her wishes to not be official but this still hurts. Rogue unloads her heart upon him explaining her unmet needs, the physical incompatibility they have together. And we are given the very realistic question of physical needs versus non-physical needs. Are physical needs a deal-breaker in a relationship? The scene concludes with Gambit being as smooth as always by saying he bets Magneto will break her heart but until then he will respect just being friends with her and givers her permission to pursue Magneto. He maturely wants what is best for her even though it hurts him.
               As we transition to the Gala itself we see Rogue living it up in her full splendor! Magneto joins her and they make a big spectacle of the two touching which Gambit sees. This is another scene I have seen some people have very weird takes on Gambit’s emotions here. Many read anger and jealousy as I am sure many in the same shoes would feel. But I see more of the dichotomy at war again. He wants best for her and sees outright that Magneto can give her something he can’t. He even says as much to Madelyn right beforehand. He is happy for her but it still hurts and is just too much hurt for him to handle so he has to step away to protect his own feelings out of respect for Rogue.
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               By the way, the animation on Rogue is beautiful here! There is so much visual storytelling going on with her feelings that shown more than told. We get the sense that she really wants this and indulges in it to the fullest. But there are still doubts in the back of her mind. Is it all for real or just a performance that she has bought into. She enjoys it and had fun but decides that she actually does want Gambit more.
               Rightful so the rest of the episode from this point on does not have much time for romantic drama. What I do really like is we get to see the Gambit-Rogue-Magneto love triangle function under an emergency. A terrorist attack happens and they all put on their work face, because this is the work that they handle. Any romantic squabbles are set aside. Magneto asks Gambit the situation without any of previous boosting over him or even hard feelings that Rogue just admitted to choosing him. And then immediately they form a plan as a team to take care of the threat like they always would. They are professionals. We do get a scene of Rogue trying to save Magneto and Gambit needing to hold her back. Then Magneto protects not just Rogue but both of them as he sacrifices himself. Again understanding that feelings can’t get involved here, they have a duty to protect people.
               Some people find the final scene extra tragic because Gambit died thinking Rogue choose Magneto over him. But I don’t think it matters. He would have sacrificed himself to save her regardless of what she choose.
               To summarize they are some many scenes in this episode where I expected characters to follow troupes and throw jealousy-fueled temper tantrums. Instead it was one of the most refreshingly mature portrayals of adult jealousy I have seen in any show. No, the answer is not “Polyamory would have fixed all of this.” But instead we get, “Toxic monogamy is not the only way to write a story.” It makes the characters so much more relatable and enjoyable to watch just to see them not drown in toxic monogamy and petty jealousy. I hope more stories can learn from these examples.
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worstloki · 10 months
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not a fan of people saying Odin and Loki are similar in a moral or decisive sense, particularly when it comes to Thor. that makes it sound like Loki doesn't know Thor or care about him beyond what he symbolises (regarding Asgard/the throne/family/worthiness), when that's a defining part of their relationship
#like i get WHY people go 'oh Thor is like Frigga (they care™/bring Emotions in) and Loki is like Odin (calculating™ /For The Greater Good)'#but if you make such a clearcut comparison you neglect a lot of stuff that Odin and Loki do drastically different#like there are literal contrasts that are pretty evident around Thor particularly#like Odin does expect Thor to be some ideal version of himself that obeys Odin implicitly and doesn't have his own volatile emotions?#while Loki more sees that Thor isn't who he tries to pretend to be and generally encourages Thor to realize that#the most obvious parallel would be how they in TDW try telling Thor that Jane won't work out#and Odin goes for the whole 'well they're insignificant' angle despite Thor caring about the humans and Jane particularly#Odin tries to go 'here's Sif and since you shouldn't have your own preferences (they're wrong and bad) consider my choice'#he largely disregards Thor's emotions#most people do on Asgard????#like it's literally wild how everyone saw Thor being major depressed and they basically told him to pretend to cheer up#like im sorry Thor's grief means nothing to y;all. he fell in love with someone very mortal and his brother is changed forever#Loki tries putting Thor off by first off. Thor KNOWS Jane isn't going to live long he's not never thought about it#he doesn't even make the decision for Thor he tells him to consider his choice well bc it WILL hurt him when she's gone#Loki is like treats Thor like a person and Odin is like nah I own him#I feel like in converting the brother/father relationship difference over people lose the differences in those aspect#they skip to similarities of heartlessness and Machiavellian ends meeting the means when Loki overall is#a far more moral character than Thor (at the start of Thor's arc) and Odin. and a lot of culturally Asgardian ideas#that's literally part of Loki's original characterization that he DIDN'T match up with their views#he didn't do stuff like take killing lightly like it's for fun and that's one of a long list of obvious aspects that make the setup cool#don't tell me Odin and Loki are the same#like there's some blanket understanding that Loki doesn't show or care about the people he loves#while Thor and Frigga have always been softhearted and refused to sacrifice themselves for what is deemed better for everyone#don't mistake selfishness for apathy and don't say Loki didn't cry himself through the first movie because duty to the throne comes first#that's literally Thor's bit#idk
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thepringlesofblood · 7 months
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my hot take is that tangled is easily top 5 disney movies all time. that shit rules.
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relaxxattack · 6 months
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Piggybacking off the last anon, what is it you like about Jane so much? I find my feelings on her kind of mixed but I lean towards positive.
okay i haven’t read act six in probably like 5 years so bear with me here. *cracks knuckles*
jane is sooo so interesting and it’s really a shame people miss like everything fun about her.
pre-scratch she used her detective work to literally succeed at tearing down the crocker cooperation, to the point that HIC has to fucking abandon ship and head into another universe to have another shot at her evil empire. pre-scratch jane is also fucking hilarious! if you didnt enjoy her antics with john as nannasprite you must just have no heart
meanwhile HIC breaches a new universe, and her FIRST fucking order of business is to NEUTRALIZE JANE CROCKER because of how goddamn detrimental she was to HIC’s plans the first time around.
not ONLY does HIC pump subliminal messaging and brainwashing into nearly every aspect of jane’s life, she also tries to straight up mind control her basically whenever possible! she ALSO sends assassination attempts after jane 24/7! (people will seriously try to say that jane lived a safe normal life… as if she wasn’t almost killed by walking into her backyard.) this is because HIC is fucking scared of jane, as she very well should be!
jane is also NOT a boring weepy annoying crybaby like everyone and their mother complains about. jane is literally the most fucking supportive friend and emotion-repressing dumbass you could ever hope to meet. jane combines john’s emotional repression and jade’s intentional cheerfulness together into one of the most fucked up cases of emotional repression in the whole comic
act 6 suffers from a LOT of shitty writing choices, but it’s not jane’s fault the whole act turns into a soap opera— and she’s ALSO not the only one who acts all soap-opera-y either! literally all of the alpha kids suffer from this, people just like jane the least so they project it all onto her. despite the fact that she did her very fucking best to NEVER talk about her feelings, to the point where she ONLY started telling people about shit when she was mind-controlled or took mind altering substances to make her do so! and you can say “ohhh that’s stupid she shouldn’t repress things in the first place how dumb” but, one she’s sixteen, and two, everyone eats that shit up when it comes from like. literally any other character.
people (cough hs2 writers) act like she would actually be “pushy” with a relationship on jake— as if she wasn’t literally the one who helped him make the decision to explore dating dirk?? because she thought it was the right thing to do???
jane is incredibly thoughtful and mature and people really throw all of those traits out of the window with preference for a version of the story where she Comes Inbetween Their Fave Gay Pairing as if she wasn’t, again, the one who got them together. jane is also extremely interesting in terms of queerness; she’s got the makings of a really interesting arc, not to mention she’s the only human girl that dresses mainly masc! there’s a lot there that people just don’t care to explore.
people just have less patience for the prospit kids in general. not to mention homestuck fans love to be misogynistic and berate jane for stuff they love the men doing, or claim she’s coming between them when she’s not, etc etc. and then because no one was writing fun meta posts about her, nobody ever rereads the comic to grab little scenes or lines to expand the online discussion about her! and then because there’s no discussion about her, people assume she’s boring and don’t go looking for bits to start discussing, which cycles on and on forever until we have the ripple effects we see of that misogyny today. which mostly consists of, “oh i hate jane because she was a villain is hs2”, or, “i know hs2 isn’t canon but i still don’t care for jane because she doesn’t do anything that interests me.” (and she’s only not interesting because of the cycle i mentioned before causing NO ONE to have meta discussion about her).
idk, it’s been a while since ive read so i could be talking out my ass but that’s what i’ve got.
TL;DR: jane is fucking COOL, she just suffers from intentional fandom ignorance. and she’s also a canonically hot, fat, masc woman, so i don’t know what else you could possibly want.
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sepublic · 7 months
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            Kinda enamored by how much Willow’s arc and its whole resolution comes from being loud, messy, and emotional; She self-actualizes by being openly angry, and as scary as it can sometimes be, expressing frustration is key to Willow’s happiness. It’s encouraged and mandatory for her to ‘hold a grudge’, and Willow isn’t really punished for it. That’s not something you see in a lot of female protagonists, and there’s also the added layer of her being an Asian girl; And Asian girls, alas, are expected to be quiet and demure, and often fetishized for this as they grow older.
         A lot of Willow’s suffering can be attributed to her trying to keep the peace; Not lashing out against Amity’s condescension in their debut, nor bringing up her anger towards Amity in S1B because it’s both uncomfortable to her, and I imagine because Amity and Luz seemed happier for their friendship! So Willow’s all about just keeping quiet, because that’s better than vocalizing and manifesting things; Surely it’s wrong to hold onto anger, surely that is the unhealthy part?
         “Out of sight, out of mind” is what Willow says in response to her memory photos. Even a simple gag about her ignoring the bones she’s walking on when meeting the Bat Queen is indicative. Willow thinks she’s content quietly accepting what her parents want and not resisting, because that will ‘keep the peace’, right?
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         But we have glimpses of that frustration; Like that moment in Understanding Willow, where Inner Willow sarcastically asks Luz if she’d enjoy witnessing the falling-out between Willow and Amity that she’s been so curious about. I love Luz, but her concurring despite her reservations, as well as her general actions that episode, definitely showed her flaw of still somewhat seeing things as a magical fantasy adventure, where Luz is so enamored by the novelty of what’s going around she forgets the (for lack of a better term) human element that she should prioritize. The jeopardy isn’t a jeopardy, it’s an opportunity for adventure!
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         Yet Willow doesn’t think so, especially as someone for whom this is mundane, having grown up with it; So this eventually culminates in her calling out Luz in Wing it like Witches, for basically seizing control of Willow’s conflict with Boscha in order to play the hero and enact her own cathartic comeback on Boscha. Obviously Luz does legitimately care more about people than being the hero and meant well, so she does accept her wrongdoing and atones for it, and Willow appreciates the gesture enough to forgive.
         And that’s the thing, the resolution for both of them comes when Willow snaps; When Willow is angry. Willow is supposed to be ‘unpleasant’. I think a lot of Willow’s character is an insistence on being submissive and palatable for the sake of others, and when she became more open as an athlete, surely she solved her problem, right?
         But by designating herself as the mom friend of the group, Willow just traded one form of repression for another, seemingly more empowering, kind. But Willow is still focused on prioritizing the needs of others, being the leader people need her to be, once again keeping the peace by solving problems and minimizing her own. Being open means being vulnerable, it means introducing Willow’s issues into the mix and that’s not peaceful.
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         Yet Willow’s happiness isn’t about being peaceful, it’s about being open and defiant, it’s about being messy and emotional and obvious. She tries to overlook Amity’s condescension in Labyrinth Runners because Willow doesn’t want to jeopardize their healing relationship, she wants to appreciate Amity’s effort, but eventually she has to express her anger, and is validated for that. Willow speaks her mind, rather than maintaining the peace between her and Amity, because it’s not even a real peace, not at the cost it inflicts upon Willow anyway. Willow recognizes Amity’s effort, and she’s grateful for that at least, but it also isn’t working and if this is about Willow’s sake, then she should say as much.
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         Willow’s big arc in For the Future has her openly wail, tears all over the place, over how much she misses her dads. Willow is used to being a wallflower, overlooked and not drawing attention to herself; She made the first step by being a leader people follow, but Willow still hid an important side of herself. While Willow does snap and rant at Boscha during the climax of her repression, it’s interesting that she isn’t made to regret it; If anything, even after opening up to Hunter and Gus, Willow happily reminds Boscha that she still isn’t finished with her. Willow’s still holding onto a ‘grudge’, if that’s one way to put it, and that’s good!!!
         It’s a lot like Luz’s arc in the series finale; These two girls of color realizing that it’s okay for them to be angry, to speak their mind, to vent their frustrations and prioritize themselves. Belos pitifully implores Luz to make ‘peace’ by helping him, but Luz isn’t some white moderate; She’s not going to let grievances go unaddressed for the sake of order, and neither does Willow. Willow has emotional threads she feels are unresolved, and that matters more than sparing someone else’s feelings, even if they do mean well. 
         Sometimes, these two really, truly don’t owe anyone anything; Luz is allowed to speak out and complain to Eda, and is rewarded with things like Hexside and a more transparent mentor. When Luz doesn’t do these things and worries instead about what her mother feels, it contributes to her horrific depression, until Camila implores Luz to not worry so much.
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         Willow is so used to minding others’ feelings by not getting in the way of theirs, or coddling them; But her being a dependable leader isn’t mutually exclusive from speaking her mind, if anything she needs to call people out sometimes, so both they and Willow can face an uncomfortable truth they weren’t aware of and/or denying.
         And I think that's really important for girls of color to be told that they aren't jeopardizing unity by addressing grievances, nor are they also the aggressors for responding; Because girls of color especially are told to keep quiet and let certain things be forgiven for the sake of the community. But they're not riling things up, they're calling upon justice to prevent more issues from occurring, to end this silent violence that calls itself peace. As Eda puts it, they have a right to be upset, and it contributes to the larger theme of communication, so loved ones can actually work with problems they’re aware of.
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lee-thebee · 15 days
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What makes me genuinely so depressed is the fact that I KNOW Max would have so much more character development if there was more s5 beyond the four episodes we got. He has already had so much clear development in just the first episode of s5, admitting to being scared of everyone changing and things not being the same as last year, apologizing for his actions and fixing the problem ALL IN THE FIRST EPISODE, which is something that took him like 4 whole seasons to do the previous year.
Also. The fact that he’s a GYMNAST now??!?!? That’s so adorable and could absolutely be used for plots of future episodes. Giving Max a weird and super not Max-like hobby like gymnastics is just too good to not expand on more.
Another thing about Max I’d love to get more of is his home life/his parents cause from the first ep of s5 it seemed to me like homeboy kinda had a rough year?? I mean he basically said that he was glad to be back at camp because camp was better than his life at home and he despises going to camp so. And obviously it’s already shown earlier in the show that his parents are not good parents. AND I also low key want to know why Max was at camp before all the other campers?? We already know his parents just drop him off at camp to get rid of him for the summer, did they purposely drop him off early?? They could have had Max there solely just to recreate the first line of the show with him and David again in the first ep of s5, but I want DETAILS
This would probably never happen but we see in the first ep of s3 that parent’s day had a good response from all the parents and everyone really enjoyed it, so I feel like they could host a parent’s day again or something would happen where the parents just assume a parent’s day is happening again and show up. Once again, this is a stretch but like it’d be cool to see Max’s parents. I’d want to fight them i’d probably be bitting my screen but it could make for an emotional and touching episode.
Smaller detail, but in infested, Neil also points out how Max has been more excited about camp and more engaged this year.
And there are just SO MANY MORE Max details I need. Like I refuse to believe that we only get one dadvid hug in the whole show. Especially because Max is more open with his emotions now, I’d finally be able to die happy if Max hugged David for more than a millisecond.
I know he already got a lot of development in the first four seasons too, but he’s just SUCH a good mc with honestly one of my favorite character arcs in any show, so what would make me the most sad would be to see his character not fully fleshed out, or just to have a lot of potential go unused.
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weeb-polls-with-pip · 4 months
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Autistic Anime Boys Prelims - Propaganda Division - Group 5
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Propaganda:
Ame -
"Typical autistic childhood – doesn't want to go to school, doesn't talk a lot, his plans for the future are just to go to live as a wolf in the forest… He's basically a werewolf and I think werewolves are often autistic coded. Actually his whole family is autistic coded."
Floyd -
"Has no emotional regulation skills and will make it everyone's problem. Prone to mood swings and can get angry at the drop of a hat, but can also be so goofy, silly, and lovely. Sways side to side for that good good stim, and loves to squeeze others (with violent intent and affectionate intent). Who doesn't love a good pressure stim? His interest in things can be fleeting, and his motivation to do things can change as quickly as his mood. Spontaneous and feral extraordinaire."
Hibiki -
"he is canonically diagnosed with hyperacusis <3 my fav sensory issues guy (he's so relatable). also canonically pulled a bad bitch (uta) by being autistic."
Akira -
"He has a heartbreaking relationship with road racing and the memory of his dead mother, and while he is a major antagonist, he is given a lot of interesting looks into his internal logics that I personally find relatable as an autistic person. I also like how he expresses himself in unpleasant ways, but isn't always treated with disgust, its kind of refreshing."
Sang Woo -
"literally the first results on google is "sangwoo semantic error autistic." he loves routine + is extremely distressed by change in routine (contrasts w his ADHD-coded bf). very blunt/cannot read social clues which leads to some misunderstandings throughout the manhwa. he's very relatable to me as an autistic person but also as a queer man, and it's refreshing to see autistic characters being open with their sexuality/sexual life bc we're often displayed as asexual robots incapable of love (bad for lots of reasons haha). he's super cute generally and really grew on me throughout the series. definitely the best part of semantic error."
Douglas -
"Many other characters try to read into what he does and says, looking for deeper or different meanings but it's always revealed that he means exactly what he says every single time and the butt of the jokes is always the other characters for being dramatic and presumptuous, not Doug for being autistic. Also he's the mean autistic representation we deserve."
Scott -
"look at him. failboy autism. even more so than any previous version!"
Shinra -
"he's just like me forreal."
Soi -
"I mean come on, it’s Purson. He thinks he’s really good at talking to people but most of his conversations (at least at the start) are completely one sided. He just blurts out whatever he’s thinking and completely dominates the conversation (if you can call it that). I love him so much for it, I have a really hard time figuring out when I should just stop talking and let someone else have a turn and only tend to realize after he fact that I didn’t really let anyone else get a word in and feel really bad. But the way Purson communicates is never shown to be a bad thing it’s a bit awkward at times but that just how he is and the rest of the misfit class live him for it. I think I could go on all day about how wonderfully inclusive Iruma-Kun is it’s such a good series, also in my brain Balam, Kalego, Clara and Opera are on the 4 outer points of an x-y graph that represents the autism spectrum. Everyone else fills the blanks in between. His bloodline magic is ‘detection warding’ and for the first several arcs of the manga the rest of the class didn’t even know he was there."
Makoto -
"In one sentence: Katai considers the titular Komi-san a communication master. Katai looks like a brutal thug, but he's actually extremely shy. Shy enough that after missing a couple weeks of class, it takes him months to build up the confidence to go to school. Katai tries to make friends once he does go to school, but he can't hold a conversation and doesn't realize that his mumbled half-sentences and resting bastard face make it look like he's threatening people. He's also pretty bad at reading the room, which is why he interprets Komi's behavior as a communication master trying to guide him from afar rather than a kindred spirit also struggling to hold a conversation."
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utilitycaster · 10 months
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Assuming Laudna will open up to Imogen about killing Bor’dor/Delilah possibly still lingering, I wonder if it will cause friction between them. I don’t know why it would but maybe I just want drama between them to make them interesting to me lol. Anyway, It is gonna be interesting to see how the bells interacts after this cause they all have had some growth and regression. You know what I mean? 
So I agree that the reunion is going to be really interesting. While I actually think the parties are on roughly the same page (though Imogen and Laudna might not be; Imogen is still kind of a lone holdout on "but what if I don't care about the gods") they did have wildly different experiences, and I do love drama.
Here's my opinion: I don't actually think Team Issylra regressed. I think there's a very common false equivalence of violence=regression that pops up in the fandom, and I think it's 100% wrong given the setting and genre conventions.
I'm reminded actually of a lot of discussion about the Ted Lasso finale a few weeks ago - there's a good post here, the gist of which is that sometimes a part of recovery is looking less happy. Laudna's entire deal is that she compartmentalizes and suppresses and tells herself it's all uphill from here. Orym has heard multiple people - people who like him, even, who'd consider him a friend or ally - openly say the group that murdered his husband and father-in-law who was basically a father to him and who used his leader (whom he's sworn to protect and who said husband and father-in-law died protecting) as nothing more than bait might have some good points, and he's mostly kept quiet. Even Ashton, who has been in somewhat better shape this arc, believed himself to be undeserving of anything good.
So yeah, Laudna might possibly have reawakened Delilah, but she's actually letting herself experience some emotions and talk about them. It's a pretty major step forward that she's spent so much time admitting to anger and fear, and her feelings about betrayal, and crying on Ashton's shoulder instead of constantly pretending everything is totally fine so that she can be the shoulder to Imogen. Orym's moment with the locket is not, to me, an act of cruelty. It's him saying "why do I keep trying to understand and sparing the feelings of people who never once gave me that grace, and who will use me or murder me without a second thought?" And while Ashton isn't immediately running to Hishari right now because, understandably, they are prioritizing the reunion and stopping the Vanguard, their moment about realizing this is anger and the past was self-pity feels like a breakthrough. He's confronting that past (speaking of false equivalences, there's a similarly common one of "choosing to go along with the main party-wide plot instead of one's own specific hooks=avoidance") and is letting himself whole-heartedly support the party after spending years refusing to have friends because friends leave.
Team Issylra is in the messy part of growth, but they've grown immensely, and that's actually the biggest thing I want to see Team Wildemount respond to.
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raayllum · 5 months
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Been thinking recently about the idea in fandom that boils down to, usually, "the Character that Changes the most being deemed 'the most complex'" and that character development (i.e. character change) being held up as The Golden Standard of a Good Character and...
I fundamentally disagree, but first, a little bit more explanation about what I mean
Very often shows and movies, when being recommended on tumblr, are sold on the basis of having enjoyable/in-depth characters. Often times this also means conflating enjoyable with likeable, but that's a discussion post for another day. And even more often, it means there are characters who are seen as Deep because of how radically they change over the course of a story.
Lots of times, this falls into two camps:
Characters change radically, but early on in the story, and remain largely the same past that point of change (think anytime in a first season) until the end of the story
People recommending shows based on characters having traditional redemption arcs (enemy or bully to friend / good guy / love interest)
Now, I'm not saying that 1) character change can't be deep or 2) that character growth is bad. Neither of those things are true, even subjectively. What I am saying is that 1) character change / a character changing is not the same as automatically being a good, interesting, or well written character and 2) character growth is not the be-all-end-all of character writing. Yes, there can be problems with characters be overly stagnant, but typically that's only an issue if 1) a work is serialized and concerned with character development and they don't change at all, 2) a character never adjusts (rightly or wrongly) according to their mistakes, or 3) all of the above but they're a main character.
However, assuming that Character A has to be radically different at the beginning of a story in terms of their personality/values/etc. as they are at the end of the story is just... not how it works, necessarily. This is, I think, one of the reasons why antagonists who get redemption arcs tend to be more popular than heroes who had good values the whole time, because there's more opportunity to point and go "look, they've changed! they act on and have basic compassion now!" Which, fair enough, but again: other types of characters are fine too.
Particularly for characters fandom tends to have the hardest time with: paragons.
Paragons are characters who are usually the central hero, pretty morally if not entirely moral upstanding, and because they already start out in a place of "always doing the right thing," they rarely radically change by the end of the story. Instead, paragons are used to progress theme/messaging and inspire other characters around them to change (a good example might be Buddy from the Christmas movie Elf and to a lesser extent - as he's more transformative as a character - Aang from Avatar: The Last Airbender, who's there to return childhood to his friends as an ideal and carry on Air Nomad values).
And for TDP, that's Ezran.
He's the youngest in the main cast and by far the most measured. While Callum and Rayla are off fighting, he keeps a level head. He assumes responsiblity largely without guilt, holds other people accountable most often without being cruel, he's kind and deeply compassionate, he shows regular empathy for his enemies even when he has to treat them like enemies, he loves his father but does not idealize him, he is king without craving power, he's trusting and honest and while he has his flaws (overly optimistic, his passivity, sometimes struggles to consider other people's emotions, naivety, etc), they - as of yet - are not overly connected to his sense of morality (which is a distinct difference compared to the rest of the main cast).
Now, TDP is less concerned with the theme of Childhood compared to something like ATLA, but Ezran being a child (again, in a way the rest of the cast is not) is also very important. Ezran, and Callum to a lesser extent, is the embodiment of the concept that children aren't born with hatred in their hearts; it's learned, or earned, through experience, society, and suffering. And as Ezran spells out for us in 4x03, he has suffered and been hurt - and he believes in breaking the cycle and believing in hope for a better future anyway.
Ezran's steadfast reflection of the series' core theme of "true strength - to break the cycle - is found in vulnerability, in forgiveness, in love" in both word and action does make him the closest thing to a paragon in the series. He's the one who finds the egg; he's the one who forgives Rayla and Soren; he's the one who still tries to help Claudia; he's the peacemaker, the literal bridge between peoples and species in spite of witnessing so many of their worst crimes/actions.
In both arcs, there tended to be a trio of characters who rapidly change, and a trio of characters who are more, comparatively, stagnated. Early S1 Rayla, Callum, and Soren are radically different in a ton of ways than they are even at the beginning of S3, but especially by the end. On the other hand, Viren - post 1x03 at least - Claudia and Ezran are far more consistent in arc 1; their circumstances change, but their viewpoints and realities and choices are largely the same from season to season - they just keep doubling down. This doesn't mean they don't change at all, but they don't radically transform - they just become more of what they already are.
I'd say that in arc 2, things have switched up, with Callum, Rayla, and Viren being the three who are radically transformed (thus far) with Soren, Claudia, and Ezran still being in the more stagnated corner. (For more notes on Claudia and Ezran's shared passivity, check out this pre-S4 meta.)
Ezran starts out the series as a good hearted, slightly mischevious little boy who loves his family and believes that people can be good. The point of the series is not to change these parts of him. It's to demonstrate the difficulties - losing both his parents, taking on the kingship, struggling to make the right choices, keeping his friends together, caring about peace and sentiment in a world that increasingly does not - of maintaining those positive traits, again, in a world that is determined to test those ideals and attributes.
Ezran is not here to be transformed by the storm, the same way his friends and some of his companions are. He is here to demonstrate the strength and necessity in weathering the storm so that the world cannot make you cold, or uncaring, or violent, even when those paths and emotions would be much easier to go down.
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Good character development isn't about changing your character; it's about changing your audience's understanding and perspective of your character. Sometimes that means the character is also changing simultaneously, but that's far from a requirement for a character to be interesting. Like most things in writing, what it really boils down to is execution.
And I could go on about why I think people gravitate towards characters who start off evil (often part of imperialist empires or older, institutionally backed systems) and learn that the evil was wrong actually (and sometimes not even that) but that's a meta for another day, and this one is long enough.
TLDR; Ezran, like a few other characters in the show - antagonists and protagonists alike - is not meant to be a radically transformative, even though he very much has grown and changed. Instead, he's meant to exemplify the importance of not losing your sense of self in an increasingly cruel or difficult world, and what parts we should arguably try our best to hold onto as well.
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beanghostprincess · 6 months
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zolu or frobin for the ship thing!!
YAY I THOUGHT NOBODY WOULD ASK ME ANYTHING NGL AUIBFJKASFDFBFASBFJK
zolu: they make me mentally, physically, and spiritually ill. they're one of my favorite ships if not my favorite ship of all one piece. actually heavily surprised they aren't more popular, but i'm glad opla is kind of changing that. anyway- i've been shipping them since day 1. zoro's devotion to luffy is something i will never get tired of. the fact that he does not believe in any god canonically but the way he follows luffy is so easy to compare to religious imagery makes me weak in the knees and wanting to curl up and cry. zoro is luffy's anchor and the one that guides him when he's lost, and luffy is the one that saved zoro from a life of loneliness and gave him the chance to follow a dream he would have never fulfilled if he had continued on his own. luffy is, kind of literally, his sun. and i'm not even talking about moon/sun dynamics. i don't even consider them to be that specific trope. luffy is literally his sun and god and best friend and boyfriend and captain and everything. if you ask zoro what is luffy for him? his everything. that silly rubber guy? his captain. his sun. his moon. his stars. his dream. also!!! people never talk about luffy's pov when it comes to zolu, and it makes me so so so mad!!!! because his perception of zoro is so beautiful. luffy trusts him with his whole soul and would leave the crew on his bare hands if he needed to. zoro's his first mate. that's a captain's heart, man. luffy might be the captain but he's emotional and irrational, and he listens to what zoro has to say. their silent communication makes me want to bang my head against the concrete floor. luffy relies on him and zoro lets his guard down when it comes to luffy. they're so in love, whether you see it romantically or platonically... i love that they're so clingy and silly and so so so powerful together. if something happened to the other their worlds would literally be completely ruined. their love literally goes beyond romantic and platonic. they're the perfect definition of queer platonic. honestly, i'm not fond of luffy in sexual situations but when it comes to zolu it's just so easy to picture them being so so intimate... i'm gonna cry writing this they're so dear to me.
frobin: i want them to adopt me so damn much. my parents. mom and dad. i usually hate it when people use family labels when it comes to found family, because the point of found family is that they're not a conventional family but they love each other even more deeply than a blood related one does. however, this is my exception because i really really really think they give married vibes and i want them as my parents. their dynamic is so good!! perhaps it's just the fact that their arcs are basically the same one and they're the main characters of water 7/enies lobby (along with our dear god usopp. shout out to my boyfriend out there!!) but their backstories and dynamic are sooooo satisfactory and angsty and domestic to watch (yes, all at the same time). robin's personality is gentle and sweet but also kind of dark and satiric, with a lot of pain behind from her past. franky, on the other hand, is a big, funny, eccentric and extremely adorable guy with an emotional touch and a lot of energy. at first it's just "big funny guy x sweet gentle girl" but in reality is "big funny guy that always takes care of everyone with a smile on his face and is extremely protective of the one he loves x sweet gentle girl that is learning how to enjoy life and will protect her new family at all costs". it's not just the angst and hurt/comfort of it all, though! i love the fact that she's satiric and dark and he's just- he's just fucking scared of her sometimes. and tbh if you're not scared of your hot, goth, intelligent wife, what's the point? you know that meme of will smith showing off his wife? that's literally them. robin does anything and he's there supporting her. franky does anything and she's there saying "that idiot right there is my husband *tiny giggle*". anyway, basically they're very gentle and domestic and i wish my parents loved me the way they would please please franky and robin kiss get married and then adopt me plea-
TL;TR: i love both ships a lot! 10/10 <3
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This person genuinely thinks that Aang would be a better character if he kidnapped a baby?? Or would be more interesting?? Honey, why would he do that. That's not him being boring, that's just him not committing an actual, terrible, crime. Alos it's his show, it's literally called 'Avatar the Last Airbender' of course he's going to get more episodes focusing on him, it's his show???
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"Aang being a main character limits him to being a role model'' by brother in Christ, this a Nickelodeon show. Even Zuko is a bit of role model, in the sense of him being a way to teach kids "Just 'cause you're hurting doesn't mean it's okay to be a dick to others. Please apologize if you ever hurt someone."
Also Aang DOES make morally questionable, and downright incorrect, choices that the narrative address. Fleeing when the other airbenders want to send him away, hiding the map to Hakoda from Sokka and Katara, trying to learn firebending before he's ready and then vowing to NEVER use that bending again, trying to trigger the Avatar state, wanting revenge on the sandbenders, shutting off emotionally to not deal with his pain over losing Appa, refusing AND accepting to ignore his love for Katara to fully master the Avatar state, his innitial refusal to continue pretending he is dead to hide from his enemies, the Ember Island kiss, and even his refusal to kill Ozai (before the actual Deus Ex Machina happens).
Aang is challenged all the time. He grows all the time. He is allowed to be wrong all the time. Yall are just mad he was the protagonist instead of your favorite.
And while I agree Sokka didn't have much of an arc, I disagree about Toph never growing even if there were some issues with her storyline. She went from someone who was terrified of accepting help from others as that had always meant "lose all agency" her whole life, to someone that consistently relies on her friends. She went from uncooperative because "she carries her own weight" to being a team player that even offers her friends emotional support. She even makes the first step to reconciliate with her parents.
LOTS of characters had arcs (Iroh, Jet, Mai, Azula, and even King Kuei- that's how stories work. The reason some of these were handled better/given more or less screentime is because Bryke insisted on having only three seasons, even though the show clearly needed a fourth. It had nothing to do with "the problem of having a protagonist" - that's not a problem if you're a competent writer with enough time.
Also, if you see Katara in the FIRST DAMN EPISODE talking about how much she wants to learn waterbending AND how grateful she was to be allowed to be a kid again, yet you're suprised to see her become such a badass whose happy ending is helping end the war and thus be allowed to be a kid again because "she's just Aang's love interest", that says a lot more about YOU than about the show.
Avatar's writting has problems, yes, because no work of fiction is perfect because no writer is perfect. But the overwhelming majority of complaints from some fans come not from acknowledging those flaws, but from a complete inability to understand some REALLY basic storytelling stuff that the show handled with excellence.
That's what happens when you're too focused on what you want to see to actually look at the story playing out in front of you: you miss incredibly obvious things that the writers made as easy to follow as possible since the show is aimed at 7-year-olds.
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rottmnt-residuum · 8 months
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In an ask you said that there won't be anything more severe than a lobotomy, but that doesn't mean there won't be anything worse, depending on what we consider worse I guess. But I'm still stuck at the lobotomy part and the effects of that. More like the emotional and mental part, since if I'm not mistaken it wasn't rare for patients to kinda lose... their empathy, or like feelings that they had for loved ones. I could be wrong but this thought just keeps bugging me.
Also will you explore the aftermath and healing part after their well, suffering ends? All the effects of what they've been through?
And... what do you exactly consider worse than a lobotomy? Like what type of thing could be worse in your opinion?
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^^^ tags from a different ask.
While a decrease in empathy can happen- it's just one of the many symptoms of brain damage in general. Because what happens to Donnie, while technically a lobotomy, is basically just very deliberate brain damage. More in line with past lobotomies than current ones. It's very much not a targeted thing and more a, 'let's cause havoc til whatever we don't want to happen doesn't happen anymore!'
In Donnie's case, the area that is the most effected is the region of the brain responsible for speech and language. Of course the brain isn't really separated into sections that aggressively, so some other things will be effected, but that will be the most obvious difference. In fact, it's something you can already see happening if you paid attention in the ninpo space.
However, there are other things going on with Donnie, so be careful with what you identify as a symptom of brain damage.
Loss of empathy was never something we were going to go for, as it's very much... not something we enjoy? As well as something we see as very undermining of his established character. We don't really like the fandom interpretation of a low empathy Donnie, either. We see Donnie as very empathic, he just doesn't show it in a way that a lot of people would recognize. He's very much a fixer.
And while losing empathy could be interesting to explore, it very much conflicts with the themes of Residuum as a whole. So, not something y'all have to worry about ahaha
Aftermath wise... well, that's pretty far off. So my feelings might change, but I've never enjoyed healing narratives. Granted, it's just how other people handle them that I don't enjoy. So, I suppose yes, we would be exploring the consequences, but much of that is already planned in Residuum. Though, not really with a... comfort aspect. Anyway. If a healing arc does happen, it will either be an epilogue, its own comic, or something that co-author would do.
Also, can you really look at what I've done so far and honestly say that I'd be able to write comfort/fluff?
...Though, if y'all really wanted it, I guess I could try skskskskks
As for what I find worse than a lobotomy... In Residuum, the worst possible thing that could happen to someone, in my opinion, is demutation.
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emblazons · 1 year
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Still thinking about how understanding what happened in the S3-S4 relational narratives requires you suspend the belief that the last two (soon to be 3) seasons of Stranger Things are designed to stand alone.
With S1 and S2, the seasons existed as standalone entities—S2 was a sequel yes, but it wasn't a direct narrative extension of the action that occurred in the season before. You could watch Season 2 with only a bit of context from the first season (one boy got kidnapped and taken by the monster into another dimension, the girl from the lab with the superpowers showed up and they worked together to save said boy, but then she disappeared and was presumed dead) and watch the second season with little issue.
Its not the same with Seasons 3-5. If anything...it helps when analyzing to imagine Seasons 3-5 as one "season" in the same way S1 and S2 exist as single entities; the Duffers have already confirmed its true for Seasons 4-5, but it gets a lot easier to follow arcs and action, particularly for the youngest characters, if you stop trying to find coherence in single-season stories and look at each season as three parts of a whole.
This is true across the board, but it's particularly true in the case of understanding Byler, both as individuals and a pairing (though the full buildup of their romantic arc will take us across all 5 seasons). Understanding why S3 feels like you just got dropped into nonsense with them specifically (after two seasons of Michael "I'm the only one who cares about Will" Wheeler and Will "I am central to the story even when I'm off screen" Byers) is because The Duffers took the risk of introducing a brand new set of conflicts to the youngest characters: namely, ongoing romantic relationships, personal identity crises and sexuality...only without resolving the conflict and action in the 8-9 episodes they usually do, which is why you feel frustrated by it.
Basically: Season Three was the season where we set up the relational problems that need to be fixed—we just have three entire seasons to work through them, which means its gonna look bad at the start and good as we work through the problem (over the course of a few seasons) to get to the solution.
forewarning: ferociously long post ahead (with headers for clarity)
Will’s Arc: A (Queer) Coming of Age
With Will, the problem re-introduced in S3 is that he feels different from his peers, and not just because he's gay; its because 1) he is in love with Mike in a way that is more genuine than we are being presented in the third season (that "sandbox" "puppy love" "break up and makeup" summer fling energy that S3 has) and 2) he is unwilling to step into the lie of "maturity" as its being presented in the story, aka giving up things like hanging out with his friends over focusing on relationships or giving up games (DnD in particular).
(sidebar: I wrote another analysis touching on the above here).
A lot of people I've met who watch the show casually say things like "it just seems like he's not able to grow up like his friends" and even "he's falling behind," but I think that's on the right track while missing the point: the reason Will is written as "refusing to grow up" is because he is the character that represents the rebellion of The Duffer's heart and interests, and both of the things that seem like they would be a bad because they make his character different in the narrative are actually surprisingly positive for his "three season" arc...if you understand what the ongoing themes of Stranger Things are.
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With Will, the “problem” in the story exists because he is the one who represents being weird/the outcast/queer and not giving into the social pressure to “let go” of that—he loves another boy, is more emotional than his peers and loves nerdy things like his tabletop board game and refuses to deny that to himself, no matter how brutalizing that is for him and his feelings. In that way, he is the character who “represents” the sentiment of The Duffers themselves—he is a nerd, a child at heart, and he has no problem taking DnD and anything else into “adulthood,” (looking at you “yeah, yeah I really did” during the rain fight) the same way The Duffers have.
That said: as we move into season 4, Will is presented with an evolution of this conflict—he wants to continue to be honest with and about himself, his feelings, and his interests…but it comes in direct conflict with his understanding of his peers & Mike, whom he loves.
We see this conflict show up repeatedly in Will’s actions in S4, especially in regards to the painting, which is the physical representation of both his love of Mike and his embracing of his nerdiness. Will shows up to the airport with his painting in spite of not speaking to Mike because his heart is to be honest and true-to-self regardless of anyone else—you even see this as he takes the painting on the road when they plan on going back to Hawkins, after he makes up with Mike. The problem is though (and this plays into the whole “we want you to feel like you lost” sentiment The Duffers spoke about, as S4 is the “down” before the “up”resolution of the whole narrative) that Will he realizes that his desire to be honest is getting in the way of (his perception of) the happiness of the people he loves, so he decides to betray his character and break the first cardinal rule of The Party…to tell his first lie.
There are plenty of phenomenal analyses on other aspects of Will’s connection to Vecna/the UD and the love triangle dynamic at play across this app so I’ll leave that alone here (I do have many thoughts on why the above makes Henry Creel the perfect villain foil to Will specifically), but: for the sake of understanding Will’s relational narrative arc, it’s critical to understand that our “low” for him is the betrayal of his ongoing S3 character—and that him undermining his self-honesty, nerdiness and love for Mike are the things that The Duffers have set themselves up to resolve in S5.
The resolution for Will is to re-embrace his differences —to realize that lying to yourself and other people about who you are and what you love (both in terms of “nerdy” interests and his queerness) is not who he wants to be, no matter how hard it is to stand up for in the wake of adversity—along with embracing the power of real love, which is also an ongoing theme the Duffers have set up in their relationships beginning in Season 3.
Now…on to Michael.
Mike’s Arc: Finding Yourself & Embracing What Makes You Different
—anyone with a single toe in this fandom knows that Mike Wheeler is one of the most divisive characters in this story when it comes to deciding 1) what his motivations are and 2) what his desires will be, but (and bare with me on this)…I think that’s kind of the point of his story. Mike’s “three season” arc is about him moving through a confusion of identity into someone who can embrace himself while addressing the things he is most insecure about—namely; being seen, being useful, and (very, very likely) the fact that the person who makes him feel most secure, seen, useful and loved is another boy.
There are several context clues that give credence to the fact that the reason Mike feels so wishy-washy / lacking in depth is because his struggle is not knowing how to find his place in the world, though you have to go further back than S3 to find them. Let me explain.
From the literal pitch of the show, there has always been an undercurrent of self-doubt and insecurity in Mike; his desire to escape the weight of feeling insecure has been a driving factor in his actions since before he was even on the screen, and it is impossible to understand what motivates him without first understanding that.
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With Mike, his actions across all seasons have been weighed down by his desire to escape his insecurities through action—and as he’s gotten older, what he’s used to escape those insecurities (to be someone like the paladin he plays in DnD) has evolved and shifted, ranging through everything from turning the world (no pun intended) upside down to find Will; being willing to sacrifice his life to save Dustin from bullies; using any weapon he could find to fight a baby demogorgon; and wanting to be a heroic knight who protects the perceived vulnerable girl once he starts dating Eleven.
The point is: Mike’s deepest core need is to assuage his insecurities by doing whatever he can to be a good person—and when he feels like can’t do anything or protect the people he loves…he spirals. That’s been true since the start of his character…and everyone from The Duffers to Finn Wolfhard himself has mentioned it.
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Now. With that baseline established, let’s talk Season 3.
Ironically enough, a lot of people feel like Mike’s character has “fallen off” because he, by the sake of all appearances, has achieved all the things he is supposed to want—namely a girlfriend, which (at least in his mind) is the physical embodiment of successfully “addressing” his core fears.
Because Mike has all the external markings of a well-adjusted kid—he comes from a wealthy family, has a solid group of friends (who are also mostly now striving for social normalcy) and even a girlfriend—he seems to have addressed what many people even in real life believe is the end of most arcs & the fulfillment of the fantasy. For Mike, the appearance of his S3 life seems to have assuaged the fears at the root of several of his insecurities, including the desire to be needed, the desire to protect, the desire to be useful, and the desire for acceptance…all because now he’s saved El and has her at his side, and having a girlfriend means he has everything a good, well-adjusted guy is supposed to want.
Or…does it?
With how The Duffers set up the story (with S3 as the introduction of a new conflict for every major character), the answer they’re giving you based on how Mike interacts with other characters is no—having a girlfriend and acting “mature” doesn’t solve anything, especially if the core problem of you having an insecure identity while being dishonest with yourself isn’t addressed…and it’s the arc of Mike learning that “lesson” that we find ourselves dropped into moving into Season 3.
Beginning in S3, the war on Mike’s insecure self-concept comes at him on two fronts: on the one side, El, who started her journey needing Mike because of her background but now has no real need for any of the things he so desperately wants to provide as a means to validate himself, and on the other Will, whose deep familiarity and history with Mike combined with his confidence in his own identity presents Mike with a challenge of self-reflection that he doesn’t exactly feel ready for yet.
(sidebar: my post on how Mike's arc is intrinsically tied to a subversion of the "Born Sexy Yesterday" trope is a helpful expansion on things I talk about here).
We see this in how Mike gets frustrated with Max for giving El the space and language to not need him (undermining his role in her life as someone who she needs to protect/guide her); we see it in how he says cruel things when Will behaves in a way that challenges the actions Mike has taken to be “mature” (how he insults Will for not also wanting a girlfriend / still wanting to play the games that set them apart as nerds/different); and we see it in how Mike still goes out of his way to fix those relationships in the best way he can—because he knows on some level that what he’s doing in several moments isn’t in alignment with who he wants to be, even though they are both presenting him with radical internal challenges.
Ironically enough, Dustin does a great job of summarizing the two sides of Mike's internal conundrum in what he says to Steve about Robin—Mike, somewhat like Steve, is struggling between what is socially acceptable in a partner (or "cool") and what he actually wants and enjoys in one—and as El and Will evolve, so does Mike's internal conflict about how he perceives their places in his world.
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Between El’s supernatural abilities and rapidly growing autonomy making him obsolete to her in all the areas that matter to Mike (see: the ability to protect, be useful, and be seen) and Will’s reminding him that at his core he is just as much of a nerd as Will is, Mike finds himself feeling more confused and insecure than ever…and that is the internal conflict we see him end S3 battling.
The evolution of Mike’s narrative arc past the introduction of this internal conflict doesn’t happen until is the Byers/Hopper move to Lenora though…when he is literally left alone to process what that intense summer brought to light for him—which is the note we're left on as we move into the next phase of Mike's evolution in S4.
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In S4, the development of Mike figuring out what he wants and needs from his relationships + the kind of person he wants to be becomes a lot more external—we see him going through a series of code switches as he tries to manage the ever changing landscape of his self-perception, where has started journey toward self-acceptance but is still insecure about following through with it.
We see this in the way he has now joined The Hellfire Club and shows sincere signs of accepting his interests and "outcast" status, but still looks forlorn when Lucas says “I’m tired of being bullied / I thought you wanted things to be different too” (Lucas’ struggles with some aspects of performing normalcy the way Mike does S4).
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We see it in the way he shows up to Lenora dressed in what he thinks he’s should be wearing rather than as himself / the way he continues performing his relationship with El throughout that first day (and how he says it was Will who "sabotaged" things by being that same kind of radical honest about his feelings we talked about before)...only for the events of the day to spur him into meaningful honesty with both El and Will (to varying degrees of success) mere hours later.
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We even see it in the way Mike seemed to have been “turning over a new leaf” once he and El fought, to the point he was okay with them ending the “normalcy” performance of their romance…right up until Argyle’s paranoia while burying Unknown Hero Agent Man struck the fear of god back into him (aka making him worry he was letting El down by not protecting her—aka tapping into one of his core fears).
Basically: Mike is leaning into accepting the things that make him different in little ways, but is still struggling to step into that identity fully—aka he is still using perceived social acceptability as a shield, even though he no longer holds as tightly to being perceived as normal. (Even Finn himself often jokes about Mike “just trying to be normal,” which I think is a good, simple explanation of what’s happening—that said, if we take that reading and combine it with those “narrative goals” I mentioned The Duffers have earlier…Mike trying to be normal is an issue to be resolved, not an identity to be embraced. But…let’s move on).
By the time we get to the infamous van scene, we’ve watched Mike struggle through the two sides of his inner conflict for the entire season now, and felt him very gently succeed at switching into a more honest version of himself (who doesn’t need a girlfriend as a shield / can embrace his “otherness” in the same way Will does) right up until his inherent desires to be needed and useful come rearing up the second El is in danger.
It’s why we see him look pleased (but also marred with conflict) when Will looks confident, happy and radiant talking about “playing dnd and Nintendo for the rest of their lives…” and why him being honest in that scene is actually a huge moment for him, because rather than being vague about what has been plaguing him for two seasons now (trying to be “normal” just because he feels insecure) Mike is finally verbalizing the internal conundrum of his now two seasons of looking critically at his insecurities.
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Now—I could spend all day digging into just that bit of narrative alone—the way Mike finally externalizing his insecurities to be processed with Will rather than acting on them and hurting people unintentionally is a giant leap for him, and how when Will says “you’re sacred of losing her” Mike’s nod is an acknowledgement that Will is right…but his face is saying there’s more to that fear than he’s acknowledging—
—but for the sake of this analysis of the narrative arcs, the van scene is most important because it’s when the S4 “it feels like you lost” moment begins for Mike…and that’s because it matches up directly with the “you feel like you lost” moment for Will: him lying about the painting.
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When Will lies about the painting—saying that his feelings and the art that (as I said before) represents 1) his love of Mike, 2) his embracing of his nerdiness and 3) that radial self-honestly Mike so admires Will for—it throws a wrench into Mike’s internal revelations because Will is essentially saying that the relationship that Mike was slowly realizing he used to assuage his insecurities (his relationship with Eleven) is actually what lines up best with "who he wants to be," which throws Mike’s slow growth toward Will + honesty about what (and who) he wants to be into a tail spin.
From Will’s lie onward, Mike is thrown into moment after moment of conflicting emotions and dire circumstances as well—and given that Mike's deep terror of losing people comes up strongest when the people he loves are in danger, it’s only downhill for Mike’s growth toward self actualization from here. In that sense, (much Jonathan's S4 omissions of his truths/fears to Nancy leading to Nancy's regression into complacency / social conformity with Steve), its Will's lie that leads us directly into the “you feel like you lost” moment for Mike: him moving back into "conforming" territory and confessing his love to El in the SBP.
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The monologue (at least in terms of the narrative arc The Duffers are writing) is Mike’s “losing” moment because it’s when he has enough self-revelation to realize that being with a girl as a shield for his insecurities is no longer what he wants...but the drive he has to be useful, protect and love any way he can (on top of Will’s urging + lie) leave him feeling like his only option is stepping into the person he was at the start of S3.
In this moment, we see Mike say exactly what someone who is "acting normal” about loving his girlfriend and wanting to save her would….even though romantic love with El (and the socially-acceptable romantic relationship he has with her) are not what he really wants, and what we will watch crumble moving into S5.
Essentially: Mike having a moment of dissonance of that magnitude after an entire season of looking toward Will was what set us up to see all those "external markings of normalcy" Mike has held onto and had started grating against for two seasons now fall apart, given what we know about those core messages/themes/child-at-heart values the Duffers hold and keep at the heart of their show.
As of the end of S4, we can already see how this "regression" into his old self is not going to hold—the fact that everything Mike did to save El is rooted 1) in a lie and 2) not in alignment with Mike evolving understanding of his core desires makes sure of that.
We even see the beginnings of this "low" being resolved in Mike's arc in how Mike & El are not speaking (even with the 'resolution' of their surface-level S4 conflict with Mike's love confession) and how Mike is glued to Will's side even before Vecna is mentioned–which is how we've been set up to see the resolution of Mike's arc in S5.
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With all this in mind, it becomes a bit clearer that the resolution of Mike's arc is him moving through the confusion of identity we've watched him go through from S3 forward and into someone who can embrace who he is what he truly loves without fear of going against what is expected—aka finding the courage not to conform.
Mike as a character is a lesson in how doing what you think you're supposed to (aka what is "normal") is often at odds with who you are and what makes you the happiest—and the only way to self-actualize is to move past your insecurities and into someone who can be confident embracing what (and who) they really want...even when it means stepping out of line from what you’ve grown up believing would do the self-actualizing for you.
Final Thoughts
Both Mike and Will's relational arcs revolve around an embracing of what makes them different—in terms of their (highly likely) mutual queerness, yes, but also in terms of them making self-actualized peace with being nerdy "children at heart" in much the same way The Duffer Brothers themselves are.
If Will represents a person who struggles because they refuse to deny themselves their identity, Mike represents a person who struggles because they don’t understand their identity, and are walking around just trying to do whatever they can to get along (because they haven’t been presented with the inciting conflict that will move them into self-revelation & growth).
Both of these internal conflicts are narrative arcs that have been built into the coming of age stories of both halves of Byler—and though we are currently sitting at the "low" of both of their arcs as of the end of Season 4, the setup and though-line for them finding themselves (and real, honest love with each other) has been clearly set up for exploration in Season 5.
—if you managed to get through all of this, I commend you. And yes, there are a million other things to be explored between these two, but...I enjoy sorting through the thematic / "moral of the story" through-lines in all my media, so of course I was gonna do it for for Byler!
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literary-illuminati · 3 months
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2024 Book Review #2 – He Who Drowned the World by Shelley Parker-Chan
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I’ve had this sitting on my bookshelf since it came out but, as so often happens, having it just laying around meant it faded to the background whenever I was deciding what to read next. Not the worst case of that (there’s a lovely of Cyteen that’s been sitting on my dresser and shaming me for at least a year now), but certainly long enough for me to regret it.
The story is a direct sequel to She Who Became The Sun, a low fantasy retelling of the fall of the Yuan Dynasty and the ascension of Zhu Yuanzhang to the imperial throne – though in this universe the ‘real’ Zhu Yuanzhang died a starving peasant child, and his sister assumed his identity and his destiny of greatness, willing to do anything and everything it takes to force the world into alignment with it. The book starts with her having lost her right hand, and only gets more emphatic about making her prove it from there.
Aside from Zhu, the narration’s split between several different points of view that fill out the struggle for the future of China. The book honestly does a better job with multiple POVs than the vast majority of epic fantasy I’ve read – every one is a thematic mirror of Zhu on one level or another, and every one has an arc dedicated to the book’s twin fascinations of what it means to be willing to do anything to achieve what you want on one hand, and gender nonconformity and queerness in an intensely patriarchal traditional society on the other.
The actual plot of the story is almost episodic – Zhu encounters some new obstacle on her way to victoriously marching to the Mongol capital at Dadu that can’t be defeated with the blunt force she has available, and she and some collection of the supporting cast goes on an insane adventure to snatch victory regardless. Then every so often there’s a cutaway to Wang Baoxiang (who, among all the other POVs, is easily the one that comes closest to deuteragonist status) scheming his way through imperial court politics in Dadu in his incredibly operatic and self-degrading scheme for revenge on his dead brother. The plots start affecting each other quite early, but I’m pretty sure it’s only in the last twenty pages or so that the two of them actually meet face to face (it is in fact a minor plot point that Wang can’t recognize Zhu when he sees her). It all manages to feel like it’s capturing a whole swathe of political intrigue beyond any one person’s understanding and feel fairly well plotted and cohesive as it comes together. Not that there aren’t plenty of points where you have to just run with it and not push back at what the book’s telling you but nowhere where it’s serious or blatant enough to actually be an issue.
I’m not sure it’s a complaint per se, but one thing that did take some adjusting to is just how, melodramatic I suppose? All the POVs in the book feel very profoundly and effusively, and also have absolutely zero awareness or understanding of their own emotions. This is particularly acute with Wang and Madame Zhang, but in every case there’s just a lot of characters being driven by emotions too large to be contained within them. It kind of feels like a musical, in that respect (but absolutely no other, to be clear).
Anyways, this is a book with absolutely massive amounts of Gender in it. With like, literally one exception, every POV is to some great extent defined by struggling against their position in the gender system of medieval China, and all the issues doing so their entire lives has left them with (Zhu is far and away the most healthy and well-adjusted about this.) Importantly, being oppressed and marginalized for being a woman/effeminate man/eunuch is in no way edifying or ennobling – it’s mostly left everyone involved deeply damaged and full of coping mechanisms that serve them poorly and everyone around them far worse. There’s basically no mention of even the idea of solidarity among the oppressed here – Madame Zhang tortures, mutilates and kills her own maids and her husbands’ consorts whenever necessary, Wang operatic revenge plot involves befriending and seducing a queer prince knowing it will get him killed in the end, Ouyang hates how effeminate his body is and deals with this by becoming a pathological misogynist – even Zhu doesn’t spare much to think about the cause of woman’s liberation beyond herself and her wife.Given the state of a lot of modern genre lit I honestly found this rather refreshing.
As both cause and consequence of the choice of POVs, the book has a rather interesting relationship with normative masculinity. There’s, as far as I can tell, exactly two examples of successful heroic/virtuous normative masculinity in the book – General Zhang and the Grand Councillor of the Yuan – and despite both being really incredibly competent and fearsome on the battlefield and legitimately selfless and honorable, both end up condemned as traitors to their respective lieges (both indolent, vicious, and generally contemptible men without anything in the way of redeeming features, themselves) and dying unpleasantly after being outmanoeuvred in court intrigue. Victory in the end goes not to those who are cherished by their society but the ones who are overlooked and brutalized by it but are willing and able to do whatever it takes and use anything and everything they can to claw their way to the top despite it.
Speaking of – the overriding throughline of the story is what it means to be willing to do anything to achieve your life’s ambition. Being willing to endure pain and suffering goes without saying, and while the book does put its leads through the physical ringer, that’s not really what it’s interested in. Are you willing to spend the lives of those who trust and rely upon you? Sacrifice those you love, or ask them to die for you? Betray those who have only ever shown you kindness? Are you willing to degrade and humiliate yourself, or lie and betray your own hard-won and precarious identity? And once you’ve done all that, and finally achieved your heart’s desire – well, are you really sure it was all worth it? Three cases out of four in the book, at least, ended up regretting it in the end.
This is a book that’s very concerned with sex and sexuality but, like, very nearly exclusively in offputting or unpleasant ways. There’s something like a dozen sex scenes (okay, ‘scenes with sex in them’ is probably the less misleading description. If you come looking for porn you’ll be disappointed) in the book and of them I believe exactly one that you could characterize as enthusiastically consensual and mutually enjoyable. Maybe three, if you count the incredibly toxic relationship which boils down to asking for help dong self-harm and it turns into a sadomasochist thing. Which never becomes/is never understood as sexual by the people engaging in it but describing it is definitely the closest the book gets to erotica. In any event, just somewhat surprising to see so much sex paired with so little romance, relative to most modern stuff I’ve read. Ties into how alienated literally everyone is from their bodies, I suppose.
Also I really don’t know enough about the historical memory of the early Ming dynasty to know whether all the stuff about how Zhu knows what it’s like to be nothing and how she’ll reorder the world to care for everyone is supposed to read as really darkly ironic or not.
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fairytale-poll · 8 months
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ROUND 1B! MATCH 3 OUT OF 8
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Propaganda Under the Cut:
Ylfa:
She just went through so much and so much growth and i love her very much.
She becomes a big bad wolf
She met Death and Death wanted her to live.
Great depiction of a teenager by Emily Axford. A lot of scenes get really emotional with her being a symbol of the cycle of life and death and eventually she will always become the Big Bad Wolf.
she faced off with Death and he told her to live. this Death, who was much older than the Death she was supposed to meet, stared off with Yilfa for days until she succumbed to hunger and ate him alive. other iterations of death apologized to her for the story she was forced to suffer through, for the punishment she had to endure over an unrealistic and unabidable rule she was destined to break. her corrupted story turned her into the big bad wolf, into death itself. she sacrificed the beloved memory of her grandma, her namesake, so that her friends would be able to save their world. even though she gained it back in the end, she was willing to live the rest of her life as the wolf, a harbinger of death, and when she was reminded that she was just a child, that it wasn’t her responsibility to guide the dead, she cried, and separated from the wolf. she was able to grow up normal and happy after suffering from the looming presence of death. i’m gonna make me friend also submit yilfa bc they’re smarter than me and can make better propaganda
my mutual really likes her
Her narrative arc about growing up and life and death is so beautiful and her being a werewolf is so cool. Emily Axford gets girlhood like nobody else.
she is the bravest little girl in the world she met death and death wanted her to live she split his skull and ate the innards of death himself she is just a little girl!!!!!!!
PRIMO Red Riding Hood adaptation. Ate the wolf who ate her gramma. Is a werewolf and a metaphor for puberty. Loves her friends. Can break her bones to reshape her body into various animal forms.
Not only did she have to lose her grandmother, but she also nearly dies of starvation and exhaustion until The Big Bad Wolf, aka Death, convinced her to live, by her killing him and eating his flesh, therefore making her Death
Ylfa has a snazzy orange top hat given to her by a very attractive fairy. Three Blind Mice is her favorite story. She brought her grandma lollipopcorn and threw the broth in the river halfway there. She first developed a crush on Pinocchio when she saw him use his nose as a stripper pole and didn't kiss him until they were twenty-one and having an awkward conversation about her grandma's death and Toy Island. She fought a baron with a spoon. She wants a bra. She jumped into The Terrible Dogfish’s stomach to save her friend. She has pinkeye and grandma hobbies. She fought off a shit ton of homicidal tables at once. She is pals with Little Miss Muffet. She killed her family. She sacrificed the memory of her grandmother to become Death. She was basically adopted by Mother Goose (who is a cool old gay dude). She Wildshapes by horribly contorting her body into animalistic forms. She is a Barbarian who acts as a support character. She is the bravest little girl in the whole world.
Behold, 3 minutes of the weirdest and best little girl! [Link]
Her weirdgirl swag is off the charts :) [Link]
Ylfa Propaganda: [Link]
Little Red Riding Hooded Mercenary:
come on just look at her shes so fucking cool
SHES SOOOOOOOO FUCKING COOOOLL ok so like. Lobotomy Corporation takes place in an SCP type facility where a bunch of abnormalities are living. She is one of them. She is a mostly undying humanoid creature that lives for the sole sake of hunting down the Big And Will Be Bad Wolf. She lives in your facility and will BREAK OUT of her containment if she feels that the wolf is near (or if too many people are dying). You can also hire her to assist you in taking down other abnormalities, and she's actually super good at it. And her outfit is just so sooo sick? She's so cool. Please play Lobotomy Corporation it goes on sale for like $7 every Steam Sale
She's red riding hood if red riding hood had a gun. Also she kisses women
Monster based on human subconscious aka an Abnormality based on the story of Little Red Riding Hood (duh). In this story, she was mauled by the wolf (Big And Might Be Bad Wolf) who is based on all fairy tale wolf villains. Little Red then got to work plotting her revenge and making Bloodborne-esque gear for herself and the two Abnos are locked in eternal combat of hatred for one another
She's literally the coolest, just look at her. For people who might not be so familiar with her: She's one of the abnormalities that remain locked in the Lobotomy Corporation. Her past is somewhat unclear, but she has some horrid scars on her face due to the Big Bad Wolf and she swore vengeance upon him because of that incident. This lead her to become a mercenary and she looks 1000% scarier and more badass than the wolf lol. Also, asides from the fact that she may kill half of your team if she escapes containment, she is quite chill and will even help you take care of your problems if you pay her.
little red riding hood but consumed by vengeance to the point of becoming an anomalous creature hellbent on completing her eternal battle with the wolf. intense desire for revenge. baller as fuck design. will help you kill other escaping abnormalities but you gotta pay her to do it. gets pissed off every time someone escapes containment except for that one annoying bird for absolutely no discernible reason. if you let her kill the wolf she gives you bonuses but if someone else kills the wolf she goes fucking bananas. truly an inspired feral creature of a woman.
Go girl!!! We love your unrestrained violence!
She is literally the absolute coolest!!! I mean, just look at her design! Everything about it screams fucking cool! Not to mention that her story has themes of vengeance, rage, and grief!!! And Lobotomy corporation is just the fucking best and soooooo underrated.
She's starting to fall behind so GO ON AND VOTE MERC WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR! (and buy Lobotomy Corp on steam it's not even that expensive!)
Vote for Riding Hooded Mercenary she's an Abnormality serving as a hired merc that means shes a hunter of her own kind and she WILL chase them to the ends of earth lest she dies herself or knows that damn Wolf is nearby. The cursor for sending hits on something is a wanted poster. She's WAW-classed too, a step below the most dangerous category for her ilk. she shares the class with things such as insane-ass magical girls, an eyeless flower horse turns people into wisteria gardens, fucked up and evil Little Prince, a bird judge that hangs its victims, the now-animate poisoned apple that killed Snow White, and of course the Wolf itself.
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project-sekai-facts · 6 months
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yo, do ya have any favourite lyrics and/or line distributions? akito getting multiple lines about dogs is neato
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Hoshizora no Melody has my favorite lyrics in the game it's not even a tough choice. I love how well every character's arc is conveyed through only a few lines it's so good. Emu could never and would never leave PXL (her grandad) behind, and WxS was able to finally change things for her and help her protect it. Rui was outcast his whole life and he came to accept it as something that would never change - it wasn't until WxS (Tsukasa) reached out to him and let him be passionate about his dreams without judging him that he was finally able to turn things around. Tsukasa throws his all into theatre (making people happy) and it's something that is so deeply ingrained as a part of himself, but WxS let him actually pave the way to make his dream a reality. Nene was too shy to face anyone and couldn't get over the things in her way (her past failures), but she was able to rediscover her passion for singing and is able to sing for everyone once again.
The prechorus parts too, Emu and Tsukasa sing the part about realising that the world can make people smile because both of their dreams are to make people smile. Emu and Rui singing about the world giving life back to things they'd given up because Rui gave up on the thought of belonging and Emu was going to have to give up the Wonder Stage. Rui getting the part about celebrating the colors of the world because his dream is to create shows that anyone can enjoy regardless of identity.
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As you said I think Akito getting lines about dogs is a nice little bit of recurring irony. I particularly like this example from Gekokujo that conveys his unwavering determination and drive even when he's faced with forces pushing against him really nicely. Also just Gekokujo's lyrics as a whole I think reflect the event so well.
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N25 probably has the best lyric game like there's so many good examples from their songs. Particular favorites would have to be Engeki for summarising basically Mafuyu's entire life in such a gut-punching way, and Tricologe for a similar reason for Hoshizora in that it just does such a good job of representing every character.
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IDSMILE/lower parallels my beloved <3
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Gunjou Sanka is another favorite of mine. If you couldn't tell by now I love stuff that either tells a story or describes a character. Or both. All of Gunjou Sanka is so good and really packs a punch with the emotions but I really like the first verse and prechorus here where it describes the basics of each main story in just one or two lines each. I especially love the Leo/need segment about being able to believe in wanting to stay together since they've moved on from their pasts and are reuinted now.
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And how could I forget Mr. Showtime. This one has such clever lyrics and I love the use of parentheses to add secondary meanings to certain parts. The whole song is perfection but I'm particularly fond of this section here, specifically the last line because it understands Tsukasa so much better than like half the fandom does. Theatre is something that Tsukasa genuinely dedicates everything to, in some ways (every way) it is his life. Phoenix is a great example to demonstrate that because it highlights just how much it means to him and how he's willing to put it above everything else, including his own wellbeing, to try and overcome the obstacles he faces. At the end of the day though, even if it's tough and can feel like it's taking too long or isn't worth it, the roadblocks he doesn't anticipate are the ones that help him improve most and get closer to his dream than anything else.
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also just this one lyric from Showtime Ruler I love character development. Karasuyasabou actually says that's his favorite in the song, and he talked quite a lot about the lyrics for the rest of the song in his corocoro interview. I'd suggest giving it a read because it's pretty interesting what he says about how he wrote it.
this is getting a bit long so i'll stop here haha
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