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#basically advertised with queerbaiting good times
sunflowerdigs · 1 year
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So, I can't in good faith complain about the Succession trailers being 90% made up of cut scenes because, if I'm honest, the only reason I'm really upset about that is because of the cut Mencken scenes, which I was really looking forward to (and Tabitha!).
However, I feel like I need to say something about the Tomgreg stuff because it's been bothering me.
As a disclaimer, I hate Tomgreg. Truly. I blocked the tag earlier this year. Imo, it's an example of people taking a relationship based primarily in toxic masculinity and kind of transposing queerness into it as a reaction to the lack of actual queerness on the show. And I hate that tendency a lot. However, I'm also not the arbiter of which dynamics and characters people read as queer. And, clearly, a ton of people disagree with me. And for that reason, the reluctance to call out the marketing team for basically by definition queerbaiting with Tomgreg because they're technically not connected to the writing of the series is...Not Good to me. Because it kinda gives networks carte blanche to do that in the future with actual queer storylines and excuse it by saying that the marketing team wasn't aware of what the writing team were doing, they just wanted to sell a product. I can see a world where queer storylines become more and more cynically used for marketing purposes only, and aren't put into the text of shows or movies (or are added in sloppy, homophobic ways). And that's...not a great outcome.
It's tricky with Succession because it's just such a great show that you won't get very far criticizing anything about it. Black people have criticized its use of rap/hiphop music when there are zero black characters for years and those complaints have mostly fallen on deaf ears. Plus, tomgreg was never going to happen and there's also a really compelling reason for their dynamic drying up (it was 95% about power, not love or genuine caring, and in s4, they got that power).
However, as a closing thought, it's worth considering the huge difference between the way that Romangerri (which is in a similar spot) and Tomgreg were advertised for s4. They deliberately backed off Romangerri - they cooled the advertising for them right down to almost nothing prior to s4. Kieran and JSC haven't done a single interview together, I don't think. And there were almost no shots of them together on the red carpet. And I think they did that because the marketing team knew that falsely advertising a straight couple that straight people were excited about would get them in trouble (with critics who liked that couple, at the very least). However, at the same time, they ramped up the marketing for Tomgreg so hard that I was genuinely worried it might actually happen (Jesse is crazy, you know?). And I think they did that because, at the end of the day, queer feelings aren't particularly real for them. Queer couples and characters exist primarily to add color to the fictional worlds that straight people inhabit. And until that changes...more of this crap is bound to happen. It's a concern when straight people might be disappointed; queer people cannot be disappointed because our existence in fiction is mostly a joke anyway.
I guess my point in writing this is just to say that, although I loathe Tomgreg, I understand the desire for actual queer characters on a show as rare as Succession. I get how powerful that desire can become. And while I'm personally glad that their relationship isn't what shippers may have wanted, I understand also how the marketing for the show exacerbated those wants, and I'm sympathetic.
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thinking about my old favorite ships
yes the
queerbating
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QUEERBATING
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queerbating
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fucking pain
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and of course
the dead one
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aoitrinity · 3 years
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Why Do I Have to Feel Like a Fucking Conspiracy Theorist -- OR -- How I Find a Semblance of Peace on Sunday Night
I’m also going to start this out with a GIANT DISCLAIMER.
I am about to theorize about what may have happened to the SPN finale. I have absolutely no insider knowledge. I am merely speculating here based on the panels and a bunch of Twitter and Tumblr posts that I have been reading over the last few days. If you are not in a good place to read such things, TURN BACK PLEASE. Go take care of yourself and your mental health. You and your feelings are valid and deserve to be handled gently right now.
Additionally, if you are here to give me shit for being unhappy with the ending, please walk away as well. I am here to reach out and share my feelings with people who might be struggling to make sense of something that upset some of us in very deep-seated ways. I am not here to bother you or critique you or tell you that you’re lesser because you liked the ending. If you felt it was good, then go enjoy it.
Long-ass post beneath the cut, everyone.
Alrighty folks...I debated whether or not to do this because I have been spiraling down the hell that is the SPN finale since Thursday. The travesty of what happened to our show--to this beloved show that seemed to have been so perfectly and precisely written for at least four years that it had basically already paved its own tarmac on which to land its plane and we all thought we knew exactly what we were going to get. And then we didn’t. We had a nigh Cas-less and entirely Eileen-less ending. We had no goodbye between Cas and Jack. We had Dean dying young after finally finding his freedom, only to ascend to heaven with no one but Bobby. We had the weird, weird, weird incest-y death scene. We had the bridge crane shot thing because...sure. You do you, Robert Singer.
It was so terrible, so truly awful, and I couldn’t seem to square any of it with anything we had known going in. I tossed and turned and cried and didn’t eat or sleep all weekend. I spent hours just reloading tumblr and twitter, going to the Misha panel, reading and reading and listening and trying to figure out what the fucking hell is going on because I needed to know exactly where to direct my anger. And after a fuckton of talking with @winchester-reload, I think we have at least a very plausible theory about what happened here--I’m laying it out below as much for my own peace of mind as anything else, because otherwise all of these thoughts are going to continue to spin around in my head for weeks and I won’t be able to do jack shit.
Now to start off, unfortunately I do think Dean was slated to die from the beginning of this season. I don’t know WHY they thought that was the best way to go, and I wish they had listened to Jensen on this one. Part of me wonders if it was an order from on high based on the discussion between Becky and Chuck earlier this season--the writers knew it wasn’t a great choice, but they were trying to signal to us that we should feel free to write our own endings to the story because they’d be better (I can wax poetic on the signs of why many of the writers probably wanted Dean to live, but that’s another post). I’m not defending that choice by any means, just laying it out there that I think they didn’t necessarily all want to kill Dean like they did.
However, what I THINK I can explain now is what happened with Misha and why we got so jerked around with Cas’s story. Consider what we know (I can’t immediately source all of it, but I did my best):
At the end of episode 15x19, Lucifer has been returned to the Empty after being killed AGAIN. He talks with Cas. Maybe harasses him a bit about Dean, idk. But then...Jack shows up. New God Jack. And he picks up Cas and pulls him out of the Empty, leaving Lucifer behind, because seriously. Fuck that guy (also leaving behind his abusive father is character growth for Jack, so yay for that).
-Misha was contracted to film 15 episodes this season. He was only in 14.
-Misha told Michael Sheen he had to go back to film 1.5 episodes after the shutdown in March. (Starts at 6:13)
-Misha was in Vancouver during filming of the finale.
-Mark P said at Darklight Con that the last scene he filmed was with Alex and Misha (and Mark P was only in episode 19).
-Misha implied that he was present for various filming moments, including Dean’s death (start at 35:15), and said that it felt like a “mini-reunion.”
-Various sources have mentioned that Jimmy Novak was supposed to be in the finale.
-After episode 18, Stands tweeted a fan who was angered and hurt by Cas's death that they could talk about the “bury the gays” issue after the finale aired.
-In episode 19 we know there were takes of the parking lot scene where the only thing fans observing could hear was Dean yelling “CAS” at Chuck (fuck I can’t find this one right now, but it’s definitely out there)
-Also in episode 19, we had a very strange, awkward montage at the end of the episode.
-In episode 20, we know there were a FUCKTON of missing scenes
-We also had no opening montage, but three other separate montages.
-Carry on My Wayward Son was played TWICE, back-to-back at the end of the episode.
-Episode 20 was shorter than normal and had surprisingly little dialogue. The pacing was VERY strange.
-The cast and crew has been almost completely silent about the finale since it came out. When they have spoken, it has been with an awkward excuse of “Uh...COVID?”
-Samantha Ferris has specifically noted that, despite the Harvelle’s being back in play and a big heaven reunion having been planned pre-COVID, neither she nor Chad Lindberg received any such invitation to return.
-Cas and Dean POP Funko figures were pictured together in a replica of Harvelle’s in 15x04.
NOW with all of this in mind (and I’m probably missing some stuff too because there is so much--feel free to add on to that list), please bear with me because here is what I think we were SUPPOSED to get POST-COVID (after it was determined that the reunion couldn’t happen because of the virus):
In episode 20, we start with our NORMAL OPENING MONTAGE, like always. It traces everything that happened during the season. We are reminded of Cas. The confession. Rowena. Eileen. Jack. Billie, God, the Empty, all of it. 
Things then follow along in the episode where they did up until Dean dies and wakes up in heaven. After his conversation with Bobby, he drives off to find Cas (who, in the script, was listed as “Jimmy Novak” in order to protect against script leaks--who wouldn’t want to do their best to avoid spoilers about the finale with the wrapping of a fifteen-year show?). He does indeed find Cas. We get Dean’s end of the confession. Hell, maybe we even get a kiss. And then Dean sets up his new heaven home in the recreated Harvelle’s. Maybe Cas even fucking moves in. 
Years pass. We get Sam having his life on Earth (still can’t explain why they cut Eileen and couldn’t even have Sam signing vaguely to the blurry brunette in the background; if anyone wants to take that on, go for it). Eventually, Cas tells Dean that it’s almost Sam’s time. Dean takes Baby and goes to meet Sam at the bridge. The cover of Carry on My Wayward Son plays during this much shorter sequence. End of episode.
But that’s not what we got. Instead, much of what I just wrote about was excised from the episode. The remnants were stitched together after shooting had been wrapped. Filler was added in the form of montages and long, unnecessary extra shots to get the episode to something approaching a reasonable length. 
But why? Why would they spend all that time and money and quarantining on Misha, only to almost completely cut him out of the finale? I struggled with why the fuck the CW would want this mammoth show to go down as the greatest queerbait in TV history when they had the chance to do something truly beautiful and monumental with it? It couldn’t just be sheer homophobia, right? Well, I think that factored into it, my friends, but here is where my head is at right now.
It was about cold, hard cash.
Now I could be wrong, but this is what I’m thinking at the moment: Supernatural is going off of the air. Supernatural, the CW’s cash cow for fifteen years. Sure there is still money to be made on blu-rays and merchandise and cons...but they need people watching their shows. They need that sweet advertising revenue. And you know what show they have about to premiere? A show that could, potentially, bring with it a chunk of that SPN revenue?
Walker.
And if any of you know anything about the original Walker Texas Ranger, you know that the show was predominantly a show about a very heterosexual white man being very excessively heterosexual. And for SOME REASON over the years, many of the execs at the CW still seem to think that this show, Supernatural, is really attractive to a lot of middle-American white men...whom they desperately want to watch this new show with this guy from Supernatural that they already know.
Now here’s where COVID fucked us. I think Destiel was greenlit by TPTB, at least in SOME form, before COVID. But then the pandemic happened, and they panicked. They got the cut of the last two episodes and watched them in their original, probably queer form. And then, the execs at CW looked at the economy. They looked at their cash cow, about to make its journey to the great beyond. And they looked at this new little calf Walker that they were so desperately worried about. And they made a choice.
They decided that it would be too risky to take the step with Destiel. They were worried about frightening off their ever-so-valuable hetero male demographic with the possibility that a traditionally masculine man in his 40s could be in love with another man in an overt way. It was homophobia mixed with greed, spun up by fear for their revenues because of COVID.
So they called in Singer, possibly Dabb, although I wouldn’t be surprised if they went straight to Singer. They told them that Destiel had to go: executive orders. And the only way to make it go in a way that removed any trace of what had been there was to rewrite what happened to Cas and cut him out from the last two episodes entirely. It was too late to reshoot anything. They had to just cut and stitch and fill with bullshit montages. 
They removed the scene at the end of 19, probably because Cas and Lucifer discussed Dean. All that was left of Misha there was his voice on that fake phone call. They may have cut other things too, but I would bet my life that they cut a scene from the end of the episode and replaced it with that very strange montage. Then they moved onto 20. They cut out every scene with Cas. And left in only two platonic mentions of him, neither made by Dean. They tried to imply that Cas might show up in Dean’s heaven at some point, but that was as far as the editors could go in the time they had. They filled in with montages, awkwardly long shots, anything they could do to fill all of those missing scenes.
And they even had to take the opening montage, because literally everything in it pointed to Cas being there at the end of it all. They wouldn’t be able to leave out his scenes, they were too critical to the season. They couldn’t cut his confession without raising eyebrows. So they cut the whole thing and moved “Carry On My Wayward Son” to one of the newly-added driving montages at the end. Which is why we awkwardly had both songs play back-to-back--again, such a strange choice unless they were out of options and couldn’t exactly buy rights to a new track or compose anything else.
And so we were left with the shadow of the finale that we deserved, that Cas and Dean deserved. We were left without resolution or happiness or words. Bobo told us the most important thing about happiness is just “saying it” and our characters were silenced without anyone ever knowing the truth.
I think the writers might have known and been given the new party line that “Misha never filmed, he couldn’t, sorry, it was COVID, no one’s fault!” But I don’t think most of the cast even knew it had happened until they watched the finale on Thursday with us (though they might have been confused why the bit from 15x19 was sliced, they could reasonably have assumed it was a time thing and also BL episodes don’t make sense anyway). Why do I say that?
Well, first of all, Misha started sending out a bunch of excited texts to fans with some old BTS pictures about an hour before the show started airing on EST. He also wanted his children to see the episode, his YOUNG children. Why would he show them such a traumatic episode if their Dad wasn’t in it? What if it was because he wanted them to witness what was going to be a monumental moment in queer television history that their DAD got to be a part of? And then that was all dashed.
Which is why I think the cast and crew went almost completely radio silent the next day. I don’t think they knew. And based on how they have been acting on social media since then, I think many of them are absolutely furious, but they have been silenced because of NDAs, because they want to find work again in a cutthroat industry, because they don’t want to bring down the hellfire of Warner Brothers Entertainment upon themselves. So the most we have gotten is a little acknowledgement from the MERCHANDISING COMPANY trying to validate our pain (god bless Shirts, she is a LIFESAVER) and a response to my salty tweet about keeping good stuff in the closet from Adam Williams (the VFX coordinator) that seemed to acknowledge the validity of my complaint.
Then there was a scramble behind the scenes, I would bet my life. Talking points were fed to the boys who had panels today, to CE, to all the cast and crew:
Toe the party line. Misha never filmed. This was always about COVID. Do not mention Destiel. Do not mention Dean’s feelings for Cas. Do not promote the Castiel Project or anything that validates the idea that this was anything less than a superb ending.
And that is why we have heard so little from the cast on this front, and what we have heard has been muddled and contradictory. That is why the writers are saying nothing. That is why we have been left adrift.
Now before I close this out, I do want to say that I really, genuinely do not think this was on the writers at all. I feel like they tried to give us the best ending that they could, in a writers room that we know is notorious for splitting along party lines about the overall story (BL and Singer, who have always been about the brothers and their man-pain vs. Dabb and the rest who always seemed to want more for them and for Cas). I think they did everything in their power to at least end with Dean and Cas happy together. If they could give us nothing else, they wanted to give us that. And then the network took it from them. From us. From everyone.
For the sake of fucking money. 
And the WORST PART OF IT ALL, for me, is that in the wake of this disaster, the fans have been left to try and figure out what happened. We have had to wade through a mire of conflicting information in the midst of all of our collective anger and grief over this garbage ending of a show many of us have loved and even relied on for YEARS, all the while wondering if we’re just fucking crazy, if we have all fallen collectively into the hole of conspiracy theories. That hurts ESPECIALLY badly because we have taken so many hits over the years from other groups on social media saying we were crazy for seeing things that weren’t there (especially Destiel), for writing meta and analyzing tropes and believing the evidence of our eyes and ears. The network has made us relive that entire nightmare WHILE processing our grief for a show we wanted so badly to celebrate and which instead we now have to mourn.
So again guys, I cannot prove that this is exactly what happened at all; this is simply my idea of what may have happened. But right now, it’s the most sense I can make from this mess, and to be honest, the act of typing it out has helped me enormously in my processing of it all. I feel like I can see more clearly, like I know where to target my outrage and where to direct empathy. I feel like just fucking maybe, I might be able to do my job tomorrow without bursting into tears at random moments. 
I really hope that this post has helped some of you to, in some small way, process this too. We get through this the way that Misha told us at his panel this morning, the way the writers have told us to do all season long...we throw out the story God gave us and we make it better. We write our characters the happy endings they deserve. 
We save them.
One last thing--if you have not already, please consider channeling your rage into a donation to one of the five causes our fandom has put together to pay tribute to our beloved show and to mourn the ending it should have had:
-The Castiel Project
-Dean Winchester is Love
-Sam Winchester Project
-The National Association of the Deaf
-The Jack Kline Project
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mcd-ms-rants · 3 years
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the s1 post as promised :)
here u go
STUFF I DIDNT LIKE IN MYSTREET S1:
• This is probably the only season where Aphmau does not act like a literal child so props for that
• Also I liked the ‘Don’t tell mom!’ episode cuz Ro’meave supremacy
• k I’m gonna stop telling the boring stuff here’s the actual start
• Ok so at this point mystreet was basically a sandbox roleplay of mcd characters in a modern day setting which is NOT A BAD THING but it did lead to a lot of mcd references, whether it was Garroth and Laurance changing into their mcd forms or Zane somehow brandishing his sword from thin air. Again, NOT A BAD THING but it did make it a bit weird especially after the whole ‘mcd and mys are related‘ plotline s4 onwards
• Dante should not have had a crush on Aphmau like no hate if you ship it but the way canon dealt with it he never stood a chance. once again no hate :)
• Aarmau was a bit rushed in my opinion, tho it isn’t so evident. but the fact that Aph just unquestioningly gets closer to Aaron doesn’t sit right with me. just like mcd s1 it feels like she’s just going off a script, which she technically is but it isn’t supposed to be that evident. I would’ve liked Aphmau to question her relationship, tell aaron that she needed time or to take it slowly. They couldve still gotten together at the end of the season with a much better narrative. I dont exactly focus on ships involving aphmau that much but even I can appreciate some well written slowburn. which this was not. let’s not get into the age gap in pdh THAT WAS NOT OK but I’ll elaborate on it in a separate post otherwise I’ll just keep ranting about it here
• Garrance literally kiss on screen and nothing happens?? I don’t exactly remember what happened after it cuz I haven’t rewatched in a while but I’m pretty sure that they just went back to normal :/ (correct me if I’m wrong tho!!) is this queerbait? can I call this queerbait?? can we not have queerbait please?
• IM SORRY WHAT WAS KC’S CHARACTER. She was so nice in mcd. she worked well as a side character and her writing was done well in my opinion. WHAT HAPPENED HERE. This girl is literally a walking aarmau advertisement. I get it you wanted to promote the main ship but at least don’t ruin her character for it. I don’t really like her mys version for this reason and I prefer to use my hc version (tho this goes for all characters) Please give this girl some actual character development. by the end of this season all we know about her is that her name is kawaii~chan, she likes pink, she loves ships, yay aarmau is sailing, don’t get in the way of kawaii~chan’s ship!! Name ANYTHING ELSE THAT WE KNOW ABOUT HER LITERALLY ANYTHING ELSE
• I really don’t like how some potentially triggering and more serious themes were joked about here. You can make it a comedy show without making serious topics funny. Travis makes perverted comments that I feel really border on sexual harassment at times, Katelyn keeps punching Travis every time he speaks and if that isn’t anger issues idk what is, Garroth and Laurance literally stalk Aphmau multiple times when she’s out with Aaron and KC has a goddamn aarmau shrine in her basement. The first time I watched it, it slipped past me but the second time I really looked at it and said why do we need THIS to make a show funny. • The story of Zane becoming Aphmau‘s friend was literally him taking a cat version of her home on Christmas and tearing up when she (somehow??) gave him her sweater. what was he even going to do with a cat-sized sweater?? How was THAT the good deed that turned her back into a human?? How was it going to help him?? I get that magic exists in this world and this incident can definitely be a part of their friendship story...but don’t make it the ONLY part of their story. youre telling me that THIS is the reason he’s willing to turn himself into a relic in s6 amidst all the blood and death and chaos??
• STOP BABYING ZANE HE‘S A GROWN MAN. I HATE it when Aph keeps cooing at him in a baby voice, especially since I hc him as autistic. the way he’s written really makes me feel that he is autistic and this ruins it
• once it’s revealed that Zane likes mlh, most of his screen time is just focused on that. He has other aspects of his character too which are never really shown and this makes him so one-dimensional which is ironically the same problem his MCD counterpart had. GIVE HIM DEVELOPMENT PLS
• Lucinda is like the ONLY character who has their shit together. good for you girl <3
• WHERE DID JEFFORY GO?? I really liked his character and we never see him after s1...in fact we barely see him IN s1. he keeps zooming in and out and then he just...stays out forever. for the record, WHERE DID BRENDAN GO?? He was like in three episodes and then he just dipped MORE MINOR CHARACTER REPRESENTATION PLS
• MORE VYLAD PLS. I get it he’s traveling the world but Aphmau is literally god so don’t say that it’s not doable
• Showing Katelyn actually recognizing her anger issues would’ve been great, and maybe joining therapy or taking a group lesson or even doing meditation would’ve been such a great development to her character and would’ve paved the way for much healthier interactions in s2. she would not have been able to fix them completely since these things don’t just go away in one day, so the s2 talk between her and Travis would still happen but it would better in my opinion (and I’ll elaborate more on this when I do a rant for s2)
• Can we have more nb and lgbtq+ representation in general?? this point is gonna be in every rant I make istg it needs to be said.
ya umm this is all that I can think of rn
thanks to everyone who follows me and even those who liked and reblogged my posts!! Your support means the world to me <3 <3 <3
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boykisserbuckley · 3 years
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If your willing to put your opinion on this would you say 9-1-1 is queer baiting? Cause I feel like they are in the sense of implying buck is not straight but I’m personally in the middle with buddie because like yeah those scenes are not straight but I mean every straight person I’ve talked to seems to see them as bros? And the show has queer couples so it’s not like they are teasing there being lgbt rep. Also I completely understand if you don’t wanna give an opinion because it can cause a lot of hate so yeah...
lmao no I'm fully willing to give an opinion :)
basically ....no I don't think 911 is queerbaiting. they've had established rep from the beginning, and good rep at that, so they have a precedent already if I'm right in what I think and buddie goes canon.
in seasons 2 and 3, and yeah in this one too, every scene between Buck and Eddie has been written in a way that honestly makes it pretty easy to read either way. some people think they're romantic, some people don't. they're not pushing it to the point that it seems impossible for them to just be friends.
I've got two examples of things I'd actually say were queerbaiting, and I've watched both, so I feel confident comparing them to 911 tbh. the first (as much as I hate to mention it) is voltron—this one was less the show itself, and more Netflix actually. they announced outside of canon (on instagram, I think) that one character was gay, 7 seasons into the show, and then used pride flags and pictures of the character and his bf to advertise the new season. when we got the season, the bf was already dead and only in (1) flashback, and there was a half-hearted wedding montage at the end where the gay character got married. that was queerbaiting thru like advertising and such, and then no real follow through in the actual show, so it was really just a grab for queer attention to get viewers for their last season. 911 hasn't done that; they don't use buddie to advertise the show at all. they never have, as far as I've seen. if they had and then never followed through, I'd call that queerbaiting, but they haven't. and I don't think they're going to start now, either!
my second lil example is the magicians tv show—they built up a romance with two characters, Quentin and Eliot, and even had an entire episode dedicated to them growing old and falling in love and raising a son together. and then they said oops, alternate timeline, that didn't happen!! and later, Eliot kissed Quentin, except this time it was a dream version of Quentin and not the real guy. after that, there's no follow through. they go nowhere. the show builds up a romance, and here's the important part: it explicitly acknowledges that romance, and then does nothing with it. 911 hasn't done that, and I don't think they will. either they'll leave Buck and Eddie as they are, and no romance will be acknowledged, in which case it's not queerbaiting in this sense and they're just two really good friends, and that's fine, or they'll explicitly acknowledge a romance, and that will go somewhere. it'll mean something. they haven't used it as a baiting tactic yet, and I don't think they will.
so tldr, in my opinion 911 is doing just fine. I read buddie as romantic, but if there's no acknowledgement of that and they stay as they are right now, I wouldn't call it queerbaiting. they're straddling a line between good friends and love interests, but they haven't pushed into queerbaiting territory and I don't expect them to. the show is doing great :)
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aster-ion · 3 years
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Sylvie x Loki Might Not Happen and Here’s Why
***SPOILERS FOR LOKI TV SHOW***
1.  They are basically siblings
Even though they have different personalities, backstories, and physical appearances, that doesn't change the fact that they are the genetic equivalent of siblings. No matter what Timeline you're looking at, both Sylvie and Loki are the offspring of Laufey and whoever he had children with. We know this because they are Variants of the exact same person, meaning that if either of them were born to someone other than Laufey, they would have been pruned as a baby. And since they weren't, that means they must be just as genetically similar as siblings are.
Because of this, the idea of Sylvie and Loki engaging in any kind of romantic or sexual relationship is extremely disturbing to a lot of fans. It's too big an oversight to brush past, especially when the show has continued to remind us over and over that they are, in fact, both Lokis. Maybe if them being the same person wasn't such a major plot point, it would be easier to ignore the facts, but it is, and that means that Marvel is basically pushing either an incest or selfcest (depending on how you look at it) type relationship. And that’s extremely risque for a corporation as large as Marvel, especially with a character as beloved by fans as Loki. 
2.  It is terrible LGBTQ+ representation
And before anyone says anything, no, it is not because Sylvie is portrayed as female and Loki as male. I've seen a lot of Sylvie x Loki shippers say that the reason people don't like the couple is due to it being one between a male and female, but that's not true. Loki and Sylvie were both confirmed to be bisexual, meaning that they can engage in a relationship with anyone of any gender. It would be completely valid for either of them to pursue romance with someone of a different sex and still be bisexual. No one is arguing against that, and if they are, I definitely do not agree with them.
However, the problem comes in when you take into account Marvel and Disney's (who owns Marvel) long history of queerbaiting. There have been countless times that Disney advertises their "first gay character!" only for it to be a single line of dialogue or a brief shot. Marvel in particular has used the popularity of certain LGBTQ+ ships and headcanons in their fanbase to generate media popularity that they don't actually follow through with in their movies/shows. So when Loki was confirmed to be both genderfluid and bisexual in Episode Three, lots of people felt like they were finally getting a win for representation. 
But those people, myself included, appear to have been let down again. The first two official queer characters had so much potential to go off and be with anyone they wanted, but instead, the show has set them up to be in a romance with each other. Now, this wouldn't be problematic on it's own, but when you take into consideration the questionable nature of their romance from Point One as well as the fact that the show has explicitly referred to it as "twisted," it raises the question of whether or not this is actually good representation. Because the fact is, in one episode the writers went “look, it’s two queer people!” and in the next, they said “their relationship is disgusting and demented.” Marvel’s first bisexual characters being borderline incestuous/selfcestuous does not sit well with me at all.
All of this is made even more confusing when you take into account the background of the Loki crew, most notably, the director Kate Herron. She also directed the Netflix series Sex Education, which has quite a bit of very well done representation of all kinds. So how is she managing to fail so badly on this project? It makes me wonder whether she truly is just losing her touch or if this is all a misdirection. Personally, I'm hoping for the latter.
3.  It does not send the "self love" message people seem to think it does
The writers, director, and cast of Loki have said multiple times that the relationship between Sylvie and Loki is meant to act as a metaphor for self love. And in a way, that makes a lot of sense. Despite creating different identities for themselves over time, they are still ultimately the same person and therefore share a special bond because of it. And there's a lot of potential that can be done with that concept.
Loki is an extremely complex and intriguing character. He has experienced a lot of trauma in his past that has shaped him into the person he is today. And that person is clearly very broken. He has never given away or received any kind of love, with the exception of his mother and possibly his brother, Thor. Other than that, he's had no healthy friendships, romances, or perception of himself. It makes sense for him to be confused by this pull he feels towards Sylvie, who is both alarmingly alike and vastly different from himself.
Something this series does exceptionally well is breaking Loki out of his comfort zone. He is finally forced to see himself from other people's perspectives. It started with the file Mobius showed him in the first episode. Loki was able to view his actions apart from himself, and was hit with the realisation that he had been hurting people, and he didn't like that. 
Loki is also confronted by the existence of the Time Keepers and the TVA, who describe him as an antagonist and nothing more. To them, his role is to make those around him look better, even if that means he repeatedly gets the short end of the stick. Mobius mentions that he disagrees with this and that Loki "can be whoever and whatever he wants, even someone good," adding another layer of depth as to who Loki could be in the future of the series. 
Another huge moment for Loki's character development is while in the Time Loop Prison with Sif. Though he starts out annoyed with the situation and recalls not feeling apologetic when he cut off Sif's hair, the longer he is in the loop, the more he changes. Loki admits things to himself that we have never seen him say aloud, such as the fact that he is a narcissist that craves attention. Sif telling Loki over and over that he deserves to be alone makes Loki question whether or not he believes that to be true, allowing him an introspective moment where he really has to think about who he is. 
Now with all of that being said, I'd like to tie in why this is important to the writing of Loki and Sylvie. They act as a mirror to one another, representing both the flaws and strengths of "what makes a Loki a Loki." For once, Loki gets an honest, unbiased look at himself without layers of expectations or self doubt. On Lamentis, he calls Sylvie "amazing" and praises her for all her accomplishments. That's a huge moment for him because it shows that despite also finding her irritating, he can look past those traits and see someone worth being a hero underneath. And through that realisation, he begins to understand that he can also grow to love himself. That kind of character development for Loki is incredible to watch, and it's the kind of character development I want to see from this series. Unfortunately, them possibly engaging in a romantic relationship will ruin it.
Whenever I'm feeling insecure about myself and my abilities, the solution has never been to look at who I am through a romantic lens. Self love is an entirely different type of love from romantic love, so if the series tries to push this relationship as a romance, it will fail to truly represent the arc that they are trying to show.
4.  Nobody likes it 
This one's a little on the nose, but it's true. Almost no one likes this ship, and more than that, most people actively hate it. Yes, there is a small minority that like Loki and Sylvie together, but there is an overwhelmingly larger group that is disgusted and angry by the fact that the show paired them up.
After Episode 4 aired, I ranted for about an hour and a half with a friend about how much we didn't want them together. My aunt whom I have never texted reached out to me to say that she hated their relationship. My homophobic neighbour came over and told me that she would prefer any other romance to this. Friends that I haven't talked to much since school let out for summer have all agreed that they collectively dislike Loki x Sylvie. This ship has brought people together purely because everyone hates it more than they hate each other.
There is no denying that the general feedback for Loki and Sylvie being a couple has been negative, even if you support them getting together for some reason. So if there are so many people out there who don't like it, I'm confused as to how it would be approved by a team of professionals.
5.  The contradicting information we have gotten so far
Before the release of Episode Four, Kate Herron said that the relationship between Loki and Sylvie was “not necessarily romantic.” During the interview, she continued to refer to them as friends and people who found solace and trust in each other.
However, after Episode Four, the head writer, Michael Waldron, and other members of the crew spoke up about Sylvie and Loki. They said things like “it just felt right that that would be Loki’s first real love story” and “these are two beings of pure chaos that are the same person falling in love with one another.” These kinds of comments very heavily imply something romantic, directly contradicting what Kate Herron said. Even Tom Hiddleston, the actor for Loki, has assessed the situation, highlighting the differing viewpoints. He’s also said before that the end of Episode Four ultimately has Loki getting in his own way. 
Now, this could all just be a misdirection on either side to build suspense for the show, but as of right now, it is entirely unclear who is telling the truth. Though it is more likely that the statements made by Michael Waldron are more accurate (as he is the writer), there is still a slight possibility that Loki x Sylvie won’t happen. I’ll link the articles I’ve found on this topic below so you can read them and decide for yourself. 
Kate Herron Statement - https://www.cbr.com/loki-sylvie-relationship-not-romantic/ 
Michael Waldron Statement - https://www.marvel.com/articles/tv-shows/loki-sylvie-in-love 
Tom Hiddleston Statement - https://thedirect.com/article/loki-tom-hiddleston-sylvie-romance 
6.  It is still salvageable
The odds are not in our favour, I’m afraid. It is highly probable that the show will put Loki and Sylvie in a romantic relationship with each other. Yet there is still a way to salvage it and turn their bond into something incredibly satisfying. Like I mentioned in Point Three, the relationship between Loki and Sylvie has the potential to be incredibly empowering and provide both characters some much-needed growth. And I believe that while unlikely, it can still do that. 
The only mention of them being romantically interested in each other came from Mobius, who at the time was angry, betrayed, and doing anything he could to get Loki to talk. Then, at the end of the episode, right before Loki is about to confess something important to Sylvie, he is pruned. This results in no explicit confirmation from either Loki or Sylvie that they are in love with each other. The audience is left not knowing whether Mobius was correct in his speculations, and honestly, I don’t think Loki knows either.
Loki is no expert on love, as I explained earlier. It is entirely possible that he doesn’t grasp how he feels about Sylvie and defaults to romance because of what Mobius said. There is undoubtedly some sort of deep bond forming between them, and I would love to see that being explored in the next two episodes. I would love to watch Loki’s journey of realising that he doesn’t want anything romantic with Sylvie, and was simply confused by the new things he was feeling towards her. Loki even says “this is new for me” when talking to Sylvie at the end of Episode Four. Him momentarily believing that he wants to be a couple with her then shifting into them becoming friends who help each other grow is still a reality that could happen. And ultimately, I think that would benefit them both as characters as well as strengthen the overall message of the show.
In a show about self love, acceptance of yourself, and figuring out who you want to be, Loki very much needs people who support him. He has that in Mobius already, and now he’s beginning to have it in Sylvie as well. I just hope that it is done in a way that resonates with the audience and subverts expectations, which just cannot be done through some twisted romantic relationship. I’ve spoken to others watching the show and seen people talking online, and everyone seems to agree that Loki and Sylvie work much better as platonic soulmates or found family than a couple. 
Of course, my hopes aren’t that high up. While I’d love for this to happen, I’ve been let down by Marvel before and wouldn’t be surprised if they went for the easy route of pairing characters up rather than dealing with the emotions correctly. Still, I have hope for this series. Everything else about it is wonderful and perfect in every way. It has the potential to become a masterpiece and easily the best thing that Marvel has ever done. However, this romance would ruin it for me and so many others. We already feel incredibly disappointed by Loki x Sylvie being suggested, so I can’t even begin to fathom how people will react if the show makes it canon. I’m begging Marvel to please do better than this. They have a wonderful story to tell and a wonderful team to do it, and I hope from the bottom of my heart that they don’t throw that away. 
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innermoonlight-bhe · 3 years
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Me, again, on Destiel. Please read.
I’ve been having problems all this month. And while I was self-exploring the reasons of my uneasiness, I tracked it back to 15x18. When I first watched the episode I had lots of unresolved feelings. I felt happy and at the same time really distressed. After waiting for two week for the end of Supernatural I thought those feelings would disappear but they just kept on getting stronger. I began feeling stressed and, this last two weeks, feelings just empty. I had no desire to do anythings, like I was lost. Yesterday I realized why and got me sad and mad at the same time. I don’t want to take a lot of time writing this but there are too many emotions and rational thoughts that don’t let me sleep at night. 
This is why I want to divide this text into two parts:The first one being the queerbating debate on internet. This includes the normalization of heterosexual relationships, audiences, plots and writing, marketing and advertising, and other things that have to do with t.v. industry. In specific, the rare case of CW and its treatment of the whole Supernatural family. In the second part I would like to focus on my personal experience, which I’m sure is same to most people who were left all alone in this Destiel world of disappointment. This last one you can decide to ignore or share with me. The one that i’m most interested is that you read the first part, even though it can seem a little out of context, since I’ll be referring to another tv shows of the CW.
 FIRST PART THEN OF THE DESTIEL OPINION:When I was left so sad after the queerbaiting I began watching a famous soup opera aka telenovela, called Yo soy Betty, la fea. It’s famous worldwide and I felt it like a comfort home after all the Destiel drama. It made me happy because the story plot is only one: the heterosexual couple that falls in love. Of course I’m reducing this too much, but the point is that yesterday, after I finished watching it, I realized that even though the main couple had problems at the end the audience knew they would’ve ended together. It did happen, in the anti-last episode, same as in supernatural and the Cas confession. The two further episodes centered on the happy conclusion on the story. There are clear points to establish:
Point 1:  Supernatural was born as a serious mainly centered on two heterosexual man traveling all along a country hunting monsters while looking for a father. Meanwhile a classic telenovela centers on a love couple who fight against everythings to be together; in this case it’s establish since the beginning and no one will except anything else. 
Point 2: Meanwhile telenovela’s audiences are destined to be woman, wanting to follow the classic love story; Supernatural was being male focused actually did excepted woman but also men watchers. Supernatural had a largest specter of viewers.
Point 3: Telenovelas are not willing to change the story for the audiences desires. They work with practical and classic formulas that rarely will fail. There’s no necessity to receive a feedback to complete. Supernatural and tv series, on the other hand, actually need the feedback from the viewers because on it depends their permanency on the screen. 
Supernatural needed to keep their viewers high so the show could continue. I’m gonna leave the classic telenovela out for a moment. It’s important settling this differences to approximate myself to the basic point of my madness: how unethical is the queerbaiting.The public opinion changes, and The CW having clear this is very know to keep in touch with fans wishes and needs. In the case of Jane the Virgin, a barely combination of the telenovela classic plot but in a tv series way, had a big “change” with one of their main characters: Petra. Her connection with the main character, Jane, was noted and wanted by many of the viewers. But the show’s creator knew that main plot (point 1)was a girl who accidentally gets pregnant and eventually falls in love with the love of her life, Rafael. So the show writers wouldn’t just change this main plot in order to make a couple happen, so instead they gave the public what they wanted by making Petra bisexual and introducing a perfect girl for her, also called Jane, to deliver the wish of fans. This relationship worked purely and on its on. The reactions with Petra bisexuality were low, and they took care of it as if it was something normal and not anything that needed satanizing. No one could be expected to freak, not even Petra’s twins. Even though the first seasons Petra only had male relationships. This is a good thing that The CW did, but they didn’t do this out of the goodness of their heart: they did it for views and for the audience (point 2). Jane the virgin was also planned to have female audiences and to treat serious social issues respecting sexuality and love. This is why it didn’t came as a surprise. 
Then why did Destiel couldn’t happen? Because the CV is homophobic? Probably there’s some of this in it, but the reality it’s they weren’t giving up on the part of the audience that is actually homophobic, or that at least won’t feel comfortable watching a heterosexual character discover himself as bi. The thing of the audiences is important because the “ambiguity” in which Cas’ confession was treated worked perfectly for them: it gave exactly the sufficient enough to keep us happy, meaning while keeping the perfect amount of “friendship”. So anyone can take whatever they want for the story. By this part I understand why they wanted to deal with this confession in an ambiguous way: to please everybody. But why did they wanted to please everybody? It wasn’t out of kindness of their heart, it was for views.The whole queerbaiting debate has being on the tables for a long time but we also ignore the unethical implications on it. It has been used by many contemporary media, to hint at something that the producers are not expecting to happen any time. And even though, they keep on teasing us. This is highly unethical because the reason behind them is the accumulation of money. Supernatural survived because of Destiel. I resisted myself to say this because I had respect for the series until I stopped watching around season 10. The story and plots were doom, repetitive and boring at times. We keep watching for the emotions caused by the supernatural family. Not only Destiel but Sam and all of the characters. The original plot explained in the point 1 was lost and blurred, we were far away from that premise and that was why the finale episode feel just bad. 
The show had chances to grow without losing the origina plot but also confronting change and accept that sometimes, things must pass and you have to move. Destiel was an important support of the show, the views and year after year renovation of the series. Pointing at the queerbaiting has lost its meaning if we forgot why they do it, why they keep on doing this even though it makes us feel bad. This affects the shows work in perspective because it changes the plot and natural progression of the story. For the queerbaiting, they have scenes that are forgotten next episodes like they never happened. I’m a literature student and the first thing they say to us is that a scene, even a word, should be taken so seriously that it actually work on the long road of the story. In Destiel we have beautiful, all heart breaking scenes of Cas and Dean being romantic, closed, just in love. The Dean’s confession were he admitted to the priest he wanted to experience new things, the Castiel’s love confession, and others are an example of how this scenes have a space in the show but are still isolated from the original story. They don’t play a part in the bigger image. That’s why we don’t see Dean talk to Sam about Cas, this is why they are so many Destiel plots left unsolved. I have a small memory of an old lady assuring Dean that he’s in love, even though we haven’t seen in a long time a female in Dean’s life (Dean, who the first four seasons flirted with e v e r y woman he met.  Because producers and writers can let this scenes happen as long as it doesn’t change the main characters. Even, they are willing to let us think that Cas could be bi but Dean isn’t, by not having him say anything after Cas says I love you. And to be honest, we didn’t except much. 
We knew that we were clowning and it’s not like we excepted a love making scene from those two. We raised our expectations after 15x18 and not after. A lot of us were waiting on the finale to bring joy even though we never actually imagined it would go canon. 15x18 lifted expectations very few had and that lots, myself for instance, returned to watch after hearing Destiel was semi-canon. It brought back feelings, I got to rewatch supernatural to enter the atmosphere once again... So it was perfect for the CW. On one hand, the biggest queerbaiting on history gave them back for 15x19 and 15x20 all the fandom they had lost for the previous queerbaiting and tiredness of waiting. And also, they keep the antis and the homophobe watching. It was perfectly staged and nothing else was expecting. Something similar happen with Jane the virgin. With the death of Michael (I rather shipped more Jane with Michael) a lot of fans stopped watching. This was planned since the beginning and they actually gave us a fake death and then the real one. I actually stopped watching one season of Jane the virgin after his death because I was devastated, even though since the beginning everything pointed at Jane ending up with Rafael. Her connection with Michael was lovely and pure love. But after killing him off they wrote the relationship of Jafael so perfectly, not rushed or anything: it developed in a way that her relationship with Michael was intact but finished by death. It was a hard punch but at the end we ended up to accept her relationship with Rafael because of the clear progression between the characters. But, at the end of the series, at the last season they decided it was good idea to bring Michael back from the death and have her chose Rafael, after all of the progress It took for her to forget Michael. The changed her and all of the perspective of love changed for the show. It made thing that soul mates don’t exist, that all the love Jane felt for Michael disappear after having a whole season of her suffering for her lost, after she wrote her first book for him. It would’ve been so much better for the story if Michael stayed death. 
So the things is it’s not only queerbaiting on homosexual couples, but the whole idea that they need to have a huge audiences watching their last seasons. I returned to watch Jane the virgin excepting for Michael. This awful thing they do. Just for views and gain of capital bothers me and its what makes me angry. In the case of Supernatural it’s also a topic of homophobia and the fear that the homophobia of a few will ruin the views of series finales. An as I considere the unethical implications is why I would love to have them apologize to us. It’s like a person promising the stars and stopping you to move on, while they know nothing will happen. They use us as numbers to gain money and attention. The decision that I and a lot of people took to unfollow all of The CW accounts is no radical. It’s a little if we take into account all of the money they made from the unethical queerbaiting. It causes me a lot of anger and actually feel like a I need an apology because I felt used and dirty. This is the fault of the industry and the CW has a fame of doing so.
 PART 2: 
This will be little in comparison. Now I want to get to the sad sentimental part. I felt all empty because four years ago that I stopped watching I also stopped talking to the love of my life. Hearing about Destiel had me going back to moments. I even desired to talk to him again to tell him that I wasn’t all wrong. Destiel wasn’t platonic or an illusion. it has clearly staged to makes us think it could happen. It’s not the story of an angel who falls for a human, that gives everything up for him, that loves him. After his confession is the story of unrequited love. Dean never says it back and it’s a feeling that a lot of people have suffered. To love someone and not having them saying them back, of the relationship that never ends but at the end it’s one of the most important. This one I talked about I never dated, I never kissed, but he’s the man i’ve loved the most in my life. Having Castiel saying I love you and never receiving anything back, giving his life and no one saving him, it’s just heartbreaking for all of us who have constantly giving everything without expecting anything in return. At the same time it’s the story of a a couple that never happens but that should have. The same reflexion as always: if it were heterosexual it would’ve happen long time ago. But it also happens in real life, that if time alined, if things were in other way relationships would’ve happen with people in our lives.I had a lot of more feelings for Destiel, but that would be for another time. Right now I just realized why made me, personally, feed angry and sad. I realized I was a Cas to someone else. I realized I was used by a network. The queerbaiting actually has psychology repercussion on us, and it’s something they fail to understand. Accepting that I was affected by a tv show took me a hard time. I didn’t know how to explain to others why this had me absence for week, I thought I was ridiculous and week. I felt bad but know I realized I’m not wrong. It’s not my fault but it’s years of messing with out feelings on purpose. Some day i’ll write an essay on this. I have to much to say but I end it with this:
The media manipulates our emotions and doesn’t take any responsibility whatsoever. 
Don’t trust the media.
(Sorry for the bad english, I’m mexican. But at least Destiel is canon in my language). 
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anchorandrope · 4 years
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anti logic
i will never ever understand the anti logic, not only do i find it difficult to understand how they don’t see how obvious larry is due to the amount of evidence there is, but i also find it difficult to understand how they believe in the image and narrative that they put on both.
i can talk about why larry is real giving evidence for hours but i think everyone forgets one of the biggest proofs: their false imagen for the world.
the antis believe in all PR/stunts/beards and that the most articles that relate L or H with a woman are true, knowing this:
let's start with louis
according to antis, louis started dating eleanor in 2011, they broke up in 2015 and soon after he was kissing with another girl in a pool, he slept with briana and had freddie, during briana’s pregnancy he started dating danielle and they broke up a year later and a year after that he returned with eleanor. i’m wrong?
let's analyze (briefly) forgetting the thousand proofs that all of this is fake, let’s just look at the context:
he started dating eleanor, although they were seen publicly and they had some interactions through social media, it didn’t seem that they give each other much support (i didn’t say there wasn’t, i said there was little) but well, let’s suppose that the support was there but it wasn’t seen because “they maintained the privacy of their relationship”. years later louis leaves her and goes to a thousand parties with other girls, of course he had a lot of love for his girlfriend and he was not tired of her at all, so he left her and automatically started to party, did i lie up to here?
now let's move on to 2015, shortly after breaking up with his girlfriend of several years, he went out to party and got a girl he had just met pregnant, he wasn’t in a relationship with her at any time and he hardly supported her during the pregnancy and by late in her pregnancy, he started dating another girl like nothing happened. he saw his son relatively often for two years (2016-2017) but after that he disappeared. during those two years he had a thousand problems with briana and her family due to financial and public image issues. up to here everything real, am i wrong?
after breaking up with danielle and stopping seeing his son, he decided to go back with eleanor (whom he had left but it’s seen that she has zero self-love and returns with a person who treated her like that) as if to “take back” his life and make that everything that happened between 2015-2017 had not happened.
in the second stage of his relationship with eleanor, it’s noted that there is zero support from both parts, they don’t seem to be together for a long time in private, or travel together, or attend important events of the other, they are never seen publicly together, etc. true right?
added to all this, they believe in the narrative that louis is homophobic, since they think that for louis it’s an insult and somewhat misplaced to support the lgbt community.
in conclusion: louis left his girlfriend of several years, got a woman pregnant and abandoned her and his son, he had a relationship to distract himself and then he decided to cover up all this by going back to the girl he had cheated on and to all this, he is homophobic since he is offended if they think he supports the community.
now let’s go with harry
according to antis, harry is a womanizer addicted to sex who sleeps with any girl he sees regardless of their age, he is terrible with relationships since the few he had lasted 4 months at most except one of them that lasted a year although during all that year he denied everything and didn't spend so much time with her (camille), am i wrong?
again, let’s analyze (briefly) forgetting that this is all completely fake:
i could talk about the thousand women that harry was related to but basically he slept with a woman 15 years older than him, with his friends, with thousands of fans who were queuing at the door of his hotel to be with him, with many models, other singers, etc. right?
at the same time, he shows himself without fragile masculinity and raises lgbt flags on stage because he wants to receive a lot of support and if you support the lgbt community, they support you, right? it's all advertising and all it does is queerbaiting. true?
in conclusion: harry is a womanizer who sees girls as a toy and uses a community which was and is repressed for profit.
well, according to antis, that's how harry and louis are
to begin, let's talk about how homophobic it’s to prefer to think that shit than to accept that it’s part of the community but is repressed by the industry, the fact of looking for another explanation for oppression is homophobic, end of discussion, and this is said by a person who has been part of the community for years because of their sexuality and gender identity.
second, it shows how limited information and knowledge you have about reality, the industry is not a joke, the things that we larries propose are not “very crazy” there are thousands of cases of repressed artists (not only in the music industry but also cinema, theater, etc.) who tell about their experience years after being free, tell what happened to them and it’s the same as we propose what happened/happens with larry, so no, it’s not “very crazy” there are confirmed cases of all this, is not our invention.
lastly, WHAT A BAD IMAGE DO THEY HAVE OF THEM, do they really think all that of them and still see them as angels? because if you really think all this about them and say that everything they did/do is perfect, it speaks very badly of you, you may like their music but saying that they are “angels” and being convinced that all this is real makes me think you are not a very good person, is that your image of “angel”?
i sincerely feel sorry (and ashamed) that people who “love” both louis and/or harry as i do have that image of them, i can literally go on and get sooooo much deeper into the subject of the image that the antis have of them but with this i think i have enough to give them a point:
do you see your idols like this?
—————————————————
logica anti
nunca pero nunca voy a entender la logica anti, no solo me cuesta entender como no ven lo obvio que es larry por la cantidad de pruebas que hay sino que también me cuesta entender como hacen para creerse toda la imagen y narrativa que le pusieron a ambos.
puedo hablar de porque larry es real dando pruebas por horas pero creo que todxs se olvidan una de las pruebas mas grande: su falsa imagen frente al mundo.
lxs antis creen en todxs los PR/stunts/barbas y en la mayoría de artículos que relacionan a L o H con una mujer son verdaderos, partiendo de eso:
empecemos por louis
segun lxs antis, louis empezó a salir con eleanor en 2011, terminó con ella en 2015 y al toque ya estaba besandose con otra chica en una pileta, se acostó con briana y tuvo a freddie, durante el emabarzo de briana se puso de novio con danielle con la cual rompió un año después y un año despues de eso volvió con eleanor. me equivoco?
analicemos (resumidamente) olvidandonos de las mil pruebas de que todo de eso es falso, solo miremos el contexto:
se puso de novio con eleanor, aunque se los veía públicamente y tenían algunas interacciones por redes sociales no parecía que se den mucho apoyo mutuamente (no dije que no había dije poco) pero bueno supongamos que ese apoyo estaba pero no se veía porque “mantenían la privacidad de su relación”. años mas tarde louis la deja y se va a mil fiestas con otras chicas, claro mucho amor le tenía a su novia y no estaba para nada cansado de ella por eso la dejo y automáticamente empezó a salir de joda, mentí hasta aca?
ahora pasemos al 2015, al poco tiempo de romper con su novia de varios años salió de fiesta y embarazó a una chica que recién conocía, no estuvo en una relación con ella en ningún momento y casi no la apoyó en el embarazo y ya para mediados/fines de su embarazo empezó a salir con otra chica como si nada. vió a su hijo relativamente seguido por dos años (2016-2017) pero después de eso desapareció. durante esos dos años tuvo mil problemas con briana y su familia por temas económicos y de imagen pública. hasta aca todo real no?
despues de romper con danielle y dejar de ver a su hijo decidió volver con eleanor (a la cual había dejado como si nada pero se ve que ella tiene cero amor propio y vuelve con una persona que la trató asi) como para “retomar” su vida y hacer q todo lo que pasó entre 2015-2017 no había pasado.
en la segunda etapa de su relación con eleanor se nota que hay cero apoyo de ambas partes, no parecen estar juntos mucho tiempo en privado, ni viajar juntos, ni asistir a eventos importantes del otro, no se los ve públicamente juntos nunca, etc. verdad?
sumado a todo esto, creen en la narrativa de que louis en homofóbico, ya que piensan que para louis es un insulto y algo desubicado apoyar a la comunidad lgbt.
en conclusion: louis dejó a su novia de varios años, embarazó a una mina y la abandonó a ella y a su hijo, tuvo una relación para distraerse y despues decidió tapar todo esto volviendo con la chica a la que había dejado y a todo esto encima es homofobico ya que el se ofende si piensan que apoya a la comunidad.
ahora vamos con harry
según lxs antis, harry es un mujeriego adicto al sexo que se acuesta con cualquier chica que ve sin importar su edad, es pésimo con las relaciones ya que las pocas que tuvo duraron 4 meses como mucho salvo una de ellas que duró un año aunque durante todo ese año el negaba todo y no pasaba tanto tiempo con ella (camille), me equivoco?
de vuelta, volvamos a analizar (resumidamente) olvidandonos de que todo esto es completamente falso:
podría hablar de las mil mujeres con las que harry fue relacionado pero basicamente se acostó con un mujer 15 años mayor que el, con sus amigas, con miles de fans que hacían cola en la puerta de su hotel para estar con el, con muchas modelos, otras cantantes, etc. no?
a su vez, se muestra sin masculinidad fragil y levanta banderas lgbt en los escenarios porque quiere recibir mucho apoyo y si apoyas a la comunidad lgbt te apoyan no? es todo publicidad y lo único que hace es queerbaiting. verdad?
en conclusion: harry es un mujeriego que ve a las chicas como un juguete y usa un comunidad la cual fue y es reprimida para lucrar.
bueno según lxs antis, asi son harry y louis
para empezar hablemos de lo homofobico que es preferir pensar que una mierda a que aceptar que es parte de la comunidad pero esta reprimido por la industria, el hecho de buscarle otra explicación a la opresión es homofobico y punto, y lo dice una persona parte de la comunidad hace años por su sexualidad e idantidad de género.
segundo, demuestra la poca información y conocimiento sobre la realidad que tenes, la industria no es un chiste, las cosas que planteamos las larries no son “muy locas” hay miles de casos de artistas reprimidos (no solo en la industria de la musica sino del cine, teatro, etc) que cuentan su experiencia años despues de ser libres, cuentan lo que pasaron y es lo mismo que nosotrxs planteamos que le pasó/pasa con larry, asi que no, no es “muy loco” hay casos comfirmado de todo esto, no es un invento nuestro.
ultimo, QUE MALA IMAGEN TIENEN DE ELLOS, de verdad piensan todo eso de ellos y aun asi los ven como angeles? porque si de verdad pensas todo esto de ellos y decis que todo lo que hicieron/hacen esta perfecto habla muy mal de vos, puede gustarte su musica pero decir que son “angeles” y estar convencidx de que todo esto es real me hace pensar que no sos muy buena persona que digamos, esa es tu imagen de “angel”??
sinceramente me da pena (y verguenza) que personas que “amen” tanto a louis y/o harry como yo tengan esa imagen de ellos, literal puedo seguir y meterme muuuuuucho mas adentro del tema de la imagen que tienen lxs antis de ellos pero con esto creo que tengo lo suficiente para darles un punto:
ustedes ven a sus idolos asi?
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theroundbartable · 3 years
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this is a rant. feel free to skip
I just wanted to say, how i actually marvel at how non toxic the Merlin fandom actually is.
I mean, sure we have our different ships, but we all respect each other. And we love all the characters.
Maybe the toxic people have already left, since the show has been concluded in 2012.
But like, if I compare it to other fandoms, we've basically become a part of Arthur's kingdom and decided to live in peace, while other fandoms tear each other apart.
Like, compare it to Spn, who are still discussing whether or not Destiel is canon and if the shows queerbaiting is ok or real or whatever man. And now moved on to shipping the actors, which I personally would absolutely refrain from. But maybe that's just me.
lately i've started watching sk8. and.... well, the first season isn't even complete yet. But according to the wikepedia article i read, the producers were active in no. 6 and there is one from banana fish as well? Anyway, the show is clearly gay coded. Even more so, I think they focus as much on the relationships between their characters as they did in yuri on ice. The relationships are GREAT. And I don't know, to make the ships canon they don't even have to cross a line. They're basically already together. But the chances are higher than in most shows that they'll be confirmed. anyway
people are already bashing how it's "queerbait" and how they can already see it be the next voltron and
.... holy shit please stop. Voltron's potential has been ruined be the producers promises.
Two characters where one has basically already admitted to loving the other is a completely different thing than a show who advertises a gay character and then decided to not choose the two obvious candidated with actual relationship dynamic and instead use the tortured ptsd character and kill of his love interest and show no actual reaction or background story.... at all.
And yes, i understand you're hatred for Adam.. But please, he's written as the enemy. His actions are SUPPOSED to be bad.
I personally really like his character, because now easy he is to antagonize. It's easy to see where he's toxic and where he's wrong. And it's also clear why they want to defeat him and all that. And how he's just an uncomfortable person to be around.
He is literally written as the bad guy. People are still allowed to like his character. Not his personality
There is a difference. I'd never want to meet him in real life. But the atmosphere he creates and the plot he carries are extremely interesting.
What i'm saying is, this show is already being corrupted by hate comments and it's so sad, because most of the show is really wholesome.
maybe it's just me. i really like the show. But I don't think it would be good for anyone to engage in a fandom that starts complaining about the entire romance stuff (which is part of the plot but not the main point), before the first season is even concluded. And without there being an actual sign that they'll be "just friends". Srsy, the way they're written i wouldn't even mind. if that is what "just friends" is, then honestly, i wouldn't WANT more.
(Adding a female romance interest after all this would just be bad writing, honestly.)
sorry. i'm just so used to people loving the characters and the way the story is written in Merlin (even though we all know how bad it is at times), that this kind of discussion seems unnecessary to me.
My own personal complaint about sk8 would be, where are the girls? i mean, there are some. But one is a mom (i saw someone calling her a milf. now who's the weird one). there is another mom, who i love very much with all her daughters. Reki's mom is awesome) One is a robot and the other is a red haired woman without yet explained history as the antagonist to adam.
where are the female skaters? There could be really badass ones. or skilled but shy ones, but there aren't any. at least none i've seen actually do anything. Let alone lgbtq ones. haven't seen anyone complain about that.
there is more i have to say about this, but i'll stop here. Because I don't think that's what the story is about. And i can live with that. As it's a personal choice of the author.
Anyway, i think we should all appreciate stories more. The story for what the story is.
It's gotten lost over time. Stories are mostly character driven nowadays, as we've all become more self aware. But i wish, we could at least enjoy plots again, without making everything about canon ships that HAVE to be confirmed by kissing.
i'm glad to see a show where not everything's about THAT. A show that treats it's characters and it's plot with respect. No matter what kind. I'm just glad they're not blaming actors again, as they did in voltron. (which is probably only because there are none.)
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itsmeezra · 5 years
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seen a lot of people trying to ‘cancel’ Good Omens (and Neil Gaiman as a result) for queerbaiting and honestly that pisses me off so much cuz like
None of the advertising for Good Omens ever played it up as a gay romance, and Neil Gaiman never said that Crowley and Aziraphale are gay. in fact he’s repeatedly said that whatever their relationship, is it’s a love story of sorts, but neither of them are completely male-identifying, nor presenting (mr. Gaiman also said he wouldn’t exclude the ideas/interpretations of both of them being aro, ace, or trans)
it’s mostly the fandom who interpreted the ‘gay relationship’ aspect of the show and are hyping it as such, which I can see being misleading for those who get into Good Omens for said relationship only for it to not explicitly state/show Crowley and Aziraphale in a romantic relationship. As a queer person I understand completely why so many people are disappointed in the fact that it never does; canon queer rep means the world to me. but at the same time I’m pretty much ok with the statement from Mr. Gaiman that the two are still queer in some way or another (and let’s PLEASE not forget that sometimes queer really is just an identifying term, not an umbrella)
basically, stop trying to use cancel culture on media and it’s creator(s) over things that either aren’t true or just widely accepted by fandom alone
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thefloatingstone · 6 years
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Cute High Earth Defense Club seems pretty harmless? (then again, i've only seen the first episode and about a third of the second. it seems like it's a little focused on advertising actual hot springs?) What are your opinions on the idea of magical boys? What do you think a magical boy anime would need to be good/true to the magical persons genre? What anime that would be considered magical boy would you recommend, if any?
I think I have to agree with @magicalgirlagency that the best magical boy is probably Sora from Kingdom Hearts, and probably the best (only?) example of a magical boy story I know with the boy as the main character, which isn’t a parody, doesn’t humiliate the main character for being a boy with magical powers, and Sora embodies the kind of thing you tend to find in Magical girls; a desire to save his friends, the want to help people, wants to stop bad guys and puts others above himself (while still being true to his own desires and goals).
I can’t say much for the games beyond 2, but I think the first Kingdom Hearts just on its own, removed from ALL the convoluted story and lore the other games tried to add to it and caused the story of the franchise to collapse in on itself like a neutron star, is an excellent Magical boy story about adventure and saving the world.
Sora:
Has a magical unconventional weapon (that has a special power)
Can do magic
had companions and is a team
was offered his powers by outside forces
Outside forces granted him powers to save the world as the end goal
Has an iconic outfit
(has animal companions????X’D)
fights bad guys
learns new attacks as he gains more power
Has “monster of the day” type enemies that get more powerful as he gets powerful
Has a final battle with the main bad guy in which he saves the world/s
And although I apply this only to the first game, if you want to say “But Sora doesn’t have a magical transformation sequence (which is not needed for a magical girl story btw)) I can point to the second game where he actually does
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Also personally I find the Summon spells to be so lavish they might as well count as a henshin sequence
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But other than Sora, I think Syaoran is an excellent example of a magical boy, even if he’s not the main character.
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He has his own attacks, outfit which is NOT making fun of him or making him a joke, has his own goals and motivations for doing things and is supportive of Sakura (even if at first he is against her being a cardcaptor as she, rightfully, doesn’t really know what she’s doing).
I also like the detail that for a while Syaoran had a BIG crush on  Yukito (another boy) it was NOT done in a way to make fun of Syaoran. Well... it was meant to be funny but the joke was how flustered he was by Yukito. NOT that he was crushing on another boy. It was also NOT used as queerbaiting since Syaoran is what... 9? 10 by the second season? And Yukito is in high school.
It’s played for an innocent childhood crush and he is never made fun of for it and it’s never played in a way to make him look stupid.
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(somebody help this poor boy)
Also, I have not watched Shugo Chara myself, but I have been told that show handles Magical boys quite well. Again its more like Syaoran where he is not the main character but is not like Tuxedo Mask where he is merely support in the background either, and who are not made fun of for being “a magical boy.”
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Basically, all a magical boy character or show or story with them as the main character has to do is 2 things;
1: the fact that they are a magical boy should not be a joke or a wayto humiliate the main character. Either in how they’re dressed, or portrayed in a manner where we the audience can tell we are suppose to find this situation funny because it is “absurd” for a boy to behave this way or be in the situation he is in.
and 2: It should not be using the magical boy situation as bait for yaoi fans, treating the main character as a fetish object with no character beyond how much objectification can be wrung out of him.
Basically, the male version of, say,
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Except instead of it being the physical objectification, it’s an objectification on an emotional level. “Look at these beautiful boys with feminine personalities laugh and touch each other and blush and have feelings”
And I’m not saying you can’t parody Magical girl shows. OF COURSE YOU CAN. You can parody anything you want. Magical Girl show parodies have been around for YEARS.
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And in all fairness, Cute High Earth Defense Club is probably not the worst out there. It’s probably not even in the bottom 100 worst shows out there. And honestly, it’s fine if you like it and honestly find it funny.
But if someone were to come to me and ask me if they should watch it because they want an honest Magical Boy show, I’m not sure I could recommend it. Since it’s essentially using the tropes of Magical Girl shows as the joke by playing them off as dumb, and then trying to makeit extra funny by having the main characters be boys. Because the idea of boys behaving exactly like girls is in of itself a joke.
And frankly... that’s not a very good joke :/ It’s just lazy in my opinion?
You want a good joke in that vein check out Project A-ko and the brief joke of Mari.
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The joke doesn’t start and end with “It’s a boy dressed as a girl”.
Project A-Ko is a giant parody of every anime which was popular at the time, and one of the biggest franchises of the 80s was “Fist of the North Star”. So Project A-Ko went “What if we have this situation where a school bully at this all girls’ school tries to beat up C-Ko?” (a classic shoujo story trope of the evil girl bully) “but what if we made the bully Kenshiro from this ultra-violent anime about people’s guts exploding. Because we’re trying to make this bully as ridiculously violent as possible. And then what if we make her still have her cutesy anime girl voice? and THEN what if we give her panty-shots just like you see many other anime give their cute girl characters. Because she IS a girl. And THEN what if we give her manly grunts and yells just like Kenshiro has to deeply contrast her girly voice. and THEN what if we took excruciating time to animate her doing all the lavish fight poses Kenshiro does while she’s beating up a defenseless girl!”
The joke is not “It’s funny because it’s a girl who looks like a boy” the joke is “Fist of the North Star is so fucking hyperbolic what if we put a character like that in a situation where there is NO NEED FOR IT.”
There’s a multilayered joke here, as well as a parody of anime tropes, as well as just being utterly surreal and ridiculous.
At the end of the day though, shows that use boys to parody magical girl shows would probably not be a big deal. It’s just the ONLY magical girl shows coming out these days is whatever new version of PreCure is being launched. and ALL OTHER magical girl shows are either grimdark torture porn, or these parodies. Which is why I think people are especially hostile towards them.
After all, I haven’t seen major hate for Papillon Rose. And that’s pretty bad as far as magical girl parodies go (basically being a hentai). But that’s probably because Papillon Rose came out in 2003, when there were still several straightforward magical girl shows being made.
So yeah. A Magical boy show/game/story would be FINE.
Just try to avoid those 2 things.
1: Don’t make the fact that your main character is a magical boy humiliating to them.
2: Don’t use the tropes of the genre as bait for Yaoi fans by turning the characters into fetish objects.
Time taken to write reply: 1 hour and 30 minutes
☕️Buy me a Ko-fi ☕️
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What's the difference between queerbaiting, bromance, and canon? I am genuinely confused. Also... which one is Destiel?
Okay, well none of these are really comparable-- they have common threads especially when applied to Destiel, but they all are really very different.
Queerbaiting is a term that’s been used to describe the different ways entertainment media use the idea of queer relationships and characters as a way to create viewer interest, without ever truly delivering. Supernatural of course, has been blamed for doing this a lot and I see why. The actors themselves have said that they’ve been directed to act like “jilted lovers” towards their costars of the same sex-- but when it comes to actually stating that a character is gay or bi, or any other alternative sexuality, nothing is ever definitive. So the audience can become aggravated when scene after scene hints at LGBTQ+ representation, but never truly commits to it (or, if they do commit ... they quickly kill off the character ... Charlie! I miss you so much!)
A bromance is a fairly new concept if you’re considering the last couple of decades. Bromance goes beyond just male friendships-- it obliterates those traditional barriers of masculinity and gives two men the freedom to be more affectionate and intimate with one another without being in a relationship. To put it in the most basic of terms-- it’s letting guys have the same style of close friendships that women have always been allowed to have. They can hug, they can cuddle, they can be soft and gentle with one another. It’s not all just fart jokes and beers anymore. Some people claim that Destiel is just a long, drawn out bromance but I don’t agree with that and I’ll explain why in a second.
Now “canon” is a term used in entertainment to define what has actually been written and filmed for a show or movie. Canon elements are usually things that can’t be heavily debated. For example-- it’s canon that Dean owns a 1967 Chevy Impala. It’s canon that he and Sam are brothers. It’s canon that ghosts and goblins and such are real in the Supernatural universe. Those are the easy to define canon-elements though-- other things can be more debatable depending on your interpretation of the plot and characters that surround them.
Destiel is a prime example of this. I personally see Destiel as canon because what I perceive Destiel to be is two men (or one man and an angel) who have confused, repressed feelings for one another but just don’t know how to show them. They want a relationship, but neither believes they really deserve something so real and good. They’re tragic heroes and this is a common theme for any tragic character. Yet, when it comes to life and death, both Dean and Cas can’t see life being livable if the other is gone; and it’s that devastation that brings what they have beyond friendship or “bromance” for me. Not to mention, they have been scripted and set up in every traditional romantic trope there is, showing the audience that their profound bond is one of intimate love and not just “brotherhood”. Now others say that Destiel is not canon because they have not seen the two characters kissing. They have not specifically stated “We are in a romantic relationship with one another”-- which, yes, that’s true-- they have not specifically said that; but does that really mean that there’s no possibility of them being together romantically? Not everyone has outwardly affectionate, advertised relationships. And it has been put in the scripted canon of the show that those two share even more off screen then they do on screen. We never saw Dean give Castiel a mix tape-- but apparently it happened because Castiel tried to give it back. The show had implied that they chat on the phone all the time, but we tend to only see the serious, dire phone calls when someone needs help. We didn’t see Castiel show up naked, covered in bees on Dean’s car, but later on, Dean stated that it indeed, happened. That’s the beautiful thing about stories like Supernatural. It is ever evolving-- things can be alluded to, referenced outside the scope of the camera, moments and relationships can be implied and that can be more real to the viewers than what’s actually been put on screen for the world to see.
So, in conclusion-- Destiel is a canon relationship to me; and yes, there have been times where I think the writers and producers have used the idea of Destiel as a ploy to get higher ratings, but as much as I don’t appreciate the run around, it doesn’t make me think that Dean and Cas’s relationship is any less valid for it. It’s not a bromance because it’s far deeper and more serious than that.
A bromance is fun and desired, but it’s not really necessary.
And it’s 100% canon that Dean needs Cas.
They need each other-- they both see each other as necessary.
Their bond is unique, and deep and necessary; and that’s because it’s made up of true love.
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0-q-0 · 7 years
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the character limit from the ask feature isn't enough for this goddamn Petition(tm)
Needless to say, I am a fan, let’s get that out of the way. So if I ever sound rude, it’s just because you keep putting yourself down and refuse to believe in yourself I have to resort to drastic measures.
I’ve been reading your tags and I’ve noticed you seem….resentful(??) of the fandom or at least have gotten tired of it and want to leave 
pls clarify you’re giving me a heart palpitations
i seem to notice a pattern of ‘before September’? (maybe you’re embodying FAaC!Harry Hart too much here idk?)
if that’s true you won’t be doing Parts 2,3,4,5,+ of FAaC!?!
Regarding you wanting to focus on your original work in order to make money but sOMEHOW humbly denying people’s interest, there were these tags: “#i want to keep the fanon me away from my original works #maybe?? #seCRET IDENTITIES???”
ummm???????? should we be offended?
why don’t you just take advantage of your fans and advertise through an established audience? You wanna make money let them help you stupid spud
i literally see people asking to give you money, asking for your paypal, your nonexistent Patreon.
jUST. DO. IT.
Your dumb ass: …I’d like to try Patreon but it just feels…too cheeky. Like…who on earth do I think I am to ask people to pay me money every month, if that makes sense?
Listen…..I’ve seen plenty of people try and sweet talk you asking(demanding) for the next chapter–let those fuckers pay for your time and fucking effort.
If they can’t give you what you deserve then they need to keep their whiny ass mouths shut
You average, what, 20-27k per chapter? Good writing with dedicated links to visuals and music? You research plenty dude. That’s fucking obvious. And you have real ass responsibilities on top of that. (I mean, i don’t know what the hell they are, you’re fucking secretive as fuck–you some spy or some shit??? but in seriousness, you know what? I can feel you stressing through the screen)
You scared of getting in trouble? Fanartists make money??? Why can’t you? Writing is art and you’re definitely an artist.
STOP MAKING EXCUSES
Main point is: I want to keep reading your work, I want to know what happens, I don’t want to lose you. Selfish? Yep. I’m not rich by any means, but if a bunch of us contribute a baseline of what, 1-5 dollars or whatever that translates into your currency???? I can’t be the only one who feels this way. 
Would you stay if you got enough money to get you through in RL?
Erm…very long response under the cut
I really don’t know what to say let me just stare at this blinking cursor before i rant
I’m??? Shooketh?
To clarify: Yes I intend to leave. Before the Kingsman sequel comes out. In September. Yes, that means no to 2, 3, 4, 5+++ of FAaC.
I even intend to leave my main tumblr as well just because I know no matter how I blacklist it, it will ultimately find its way to me.
I’m tired. I’m tired of falling so terribly deep in love with something that will never be real/canon. I’m tired of making people in love with something that will never be real/canon, making them invested, subconsciously urging them to stay on in that fantasy world of consumerism that makes those creators more money, those creators who will make money off of them and never deliver what the characters deserve.
Basically, I’m sick of being queerbaited, unintentionally or not. And I’m sick of writing of something that will blatantly do everything it can to make it straight–maybe joke about queerness here and there because 
Hey, We’re Cool™ We tolerate Queerness ™ In fact, the character we said was gay has a female love interest this time but!!! idk we’ll make up to it somehow. Does it really matter? You’ve been stuck in your fandom and fanfiction anyway and you’ll continue to try and satisfy yourself with that instead and make us money anyway. 
Maybe I’m too attached–As you can see from my fucking stupid almost 500k amount of work–But this makes me sick. It legitimately does. It keeps me up at night and it makes me nauseous, churning my stomach and making my eyes water and taking my breath away—because i’m stupid.
Point 2: Concerning the tags of me saying I wish to separate my original work and my fanon work and whether or not you should be offended.
Probably.
I want it separated. If you ever find my works in the wild, you may think it’s similar but move on with your life vs. If you knew it was me and started to read it, you’d somehow think it was Hartwin in an AU
that’s a bit offensive tbh. 
i mean yes it’s a political royal bodyguard university shakespearean spy thriller, but???
Point 3: Yes, it’s also about giving too much and not getting much in return. I know I’m not owed anything, let’s get that clear. It’s fanfiction. Plenty of people make it without getting much back.
But you’ve pointed it out yourself, the effort, my chapter wordcount averages, the research I do–all of these things I do on my own terms for the integrity of the stories I make. That’s important to me, that’s something I will not be satisfied with if I ever compromise on it.
It’s starting to take a toll on me, worse than it has been for the past 2 years. Again, personal real life happenings. Yes, top secret–as you’ve mentioned. I have plenty of responsibilities and the world has been getting worse. I need to make a living, in addition to said responsibility.
Let’s just say for example that I go to uni/training institution. I need to focus on that. 
I also need to get a more stable job that pays enough to enable my survival
The free time that I will have left, if plausible, I intend to spend on an original work/interpretation that will have two people who, let’s just say, would burn the world for each other and slowly come to realise that. It will be canon. 
It won’t be something I have to wait for hopelessly and be disappointed at when the sequel comes along, a franchise with several writers who may not be in sync, several writers who may have no intention or bravery to allow these people to be together.
Point 4: I do not want to take advantage of people. Realistically, the amount of people who’d contribute won’t be enough. I think??
Ugh maths why would you make me do this–but i need to prove a point.
Lowest average salary per month in the field I’d be working on: £1500-1900
You said dollars, I’m assuming you meant American. so that would equal to about $2000-2500
Currently there’s about 1.2k FAaC subscribers. That means they’re somewhat interested in the story, that doesn’t mean they’re interested in me. 
I get plenty of views from FAaC, but do I get the same or even half of that ratio on comments/feedback? No, I don’t.
That’s telling enough, isn’t it?
I’ve got around 100 subscribers to my ao3
Even on the off-chance that all of those 100 people give me 1 dollar each, that’s 100 dollars a month. 
As much as I want to cease existing, I’m already here and dying would cost money. That’s the world we live in. 100 dollars wouldn’t even be 10% of funeral/cremation costs.
Conclusion: Would you stay if you got enough money to get you through in RL?
Unless some miracle happens to even reach the baseline of £1500/$2000 per month–But I’m sorry, that’s just not realistic. I don’t like getting my hopes up.
Despite your straightforwardness, you genuinely sound like you care and I appreciate that.
Thank you for reaching out to me with your concerns
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sleepymayonaise · 7 years
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Reasons I stopped watching Teenwolf that have nothing to do with Sterek
Its hard to get past the cringy feeling you get when someone disses a show for not making their ship cannon- I get that. And even when we get past the blantant queer bating, its hard to understand what 'problematic' really means when we're discussion a show on MTV. So here are just a few of the reasons so many people have given up on Jeff Davis and his creation. ■ Queer Bating Completely disregarding Sterek, this is a huge issue within the show. We'll start with Stiles. Throughout the show Stiles' sexuality is often joked about. In one episode he tells his father he's gay to get out of trouble, and in another, when the token gay character of the season offers to take his virginity, Stiles is flattered and actually considers it. On several occasions Jeff Davis has said that these points in the show have had the purpose of hinting at Stiles' Bisexuality. This should be a good thing, but despite the so-called "hints" we get, there is never a single instance of any kind of obvious and confirmed attraction between Stiles and another man. We can speculate and hope, but the show never gives into it outright. A person of course does not ever have to be in a relationship with someone of the same gender to identify as Bi, but when we're talking about representation on a major TV show, its important that at least some sort of 'proof' is shown. Maybe in the future we can have a bi character who never canonically dates someone of the same gender and still have it be representation, but we're not there yet. Rather than anything involving Stiles (a main character of the show) Jeff Davis oftwn substitutes queer representation with relatively unimportant side characters. Moreover the show has been know to make the main token poc and queer person the same person on the show. Danny, for instance, had no real plot importance as a character except for being gay and not white. The show advertises a diverse lgbt cast, but like most shows, does not deliver. ■ The strong female charachter The strong female character does not exist on this show. In fact every instance of a "strong" female has been used as a romantic interest in the plot, whose sole purpose is to give their male counterpart something to fight for, idolize, and have sex with. We'll start with Allison. Allison was a kick ass, arrow shooting, rebellious teenage girl. Unfortunately, she was also the love interest of the main character. Given that her family presented issues for the main character, she became the juliet in a cliche Shakespearean situation. But a girl can still be badass with a boyfriend right? Of course! However, as badass as Allison may have been, her character was used consistently as a romantic interest or problem and nothing else. She was Scott's girlfriend, and then Matt's love interest, and then Jackson's love interest, and then Issacs girlfriend, and then she was dead. A girl can be in a relationship on a show, sure, but when her character is only ever used as a love interest to serve the plot, it becomes demeaning and disheartening. Next, Lydia. With Lydia we find are biggest issues. Lydia Martin is an actual genius. She's beautiful and popular, funny when she wants to be, assertive when she needs to be, and her brain is a stunning work of art. But she also has flaws! She can be shallow and mean spirited, she's obsessed with her public image, and known to have fits of jealousy. She's a fantastically well rounded character that is utterly wasted the same way Allison is. Lydia spends half of her time on the show either suffering from severe mental issues (which we will address later) or hunting for a boyfriend. She's better off than Allison was as a character, but when it comes right down to it she's just another love interest to cause problems for the main male charachters. What's really unfortunate, is the stydia situation. There's nothing wrong with the ship, don't get me wrong, but there are some serious issues with its realization. Jeff Davis actually did a pretty cool thing when he made Stiles and Lydia just friends. He took a boy who was idolizing and sexualizing a girl that was uninterested, let him understand who she really was, and accept her into his life as a friend. Its so rare that we have an instance in the media of a straight boy and girl just remaining friends in the media, especially when their is initial interest from the male protag. It showed rejection from the female counterpart and acceptance from the male side and that's huge. Stydia of course ruins that by making a short appearance, and whats worse, especially for Stydia fans, is that the ship is short lived, and ends up only being used as bait for views. I don't need to go into kira, malia, and erica, because the same shit goes down with them. ■ Mental Health I'll make this part short, because theres so many issues with this particular aspect of the show, I cound go on for years. One of the biggest issues though, is eichen house, a psych facility that is consistently used to scare voews. This place grossly stereotypes non-neuro typicals as violent and unhinged. Another huge issue in the presentation of mental health on this show, is that the charachters are endlessly traumatized but never get resolution. PTSD and anxiety are practically used as quirky charachter flaws half of the time. ■ Derek Hale This is personally my biggest issue with the show. Derek Hale, like many of the characters (except for the main one of course) is very well rounded. He makes mistakes, he evolves as a person, he does his best. Its no wonder that he's so loved by the fandom. I personally stopped watching when Hoechlin left. He wasn't a deal breaker, but I was at my tipping point. The problem with Derek Hale starts with his tragic past, which involves him being seriously emotionally abused and the victim of statitory rape. His abuser then is used as a plot point. She terrorizes him and on occasion sexually assults him, and this is never addressed. Kate is made out to be a bad person, but when Derek is being sexually assaulted he's shirtless, hairless, and oiled up. Its filmed to be sexually enticing for the audience, which is seriously disgusting. Kate is basically a sexual predator that keeps being brought back to hurt Derek. Whats worse is that the emotional trauma that results from sexual assault is literally never addressed, and Derek is consistently used as a sex object. In another season, the big bad of the show is revealed to have been disguising itself as a woman named Jennifer Blake. Jennifer blake, aka the big bad, is used as Derek's love interest, and they have sex on multiple occasions. Its later revealed that Blake seduced Derek with magic. What the writers of this show don't appear to comprehend, is that if someone is coerced into sex they wouldn't otherwise have with supernatural means, that's rape. So Derek gets raped a couple more times, and its all hunkydory because the sex scenes were hot l, am I right Jeff? (Also, Questionable consent concerning sex appears on show way more than acceptable. In example, when Stiles loses his virginity, he's partially posessed by a demon, and the girl he has sex with isn't all there mentally either) Derek is consistently used and abused on this show. He is beaten down and taken from, manipulated, ridiculed, and oversexualized over and over. His entrance to the show involves the loss of his sister just a few short years after the loss of his entire family, which he is led to beleive was at his own hands. His rapist and abusers are never fully brought to justice, and the serious emotional damage inflicted on him is never addressed. Rather its ignored for the sake of continuing to use him a sexual object. Below are some sources to back the claims I've made in this post as well as articles that better articulate what I've tried to explain . If you have anything to add regarding the issues with the show, please feel free to add on. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.advocate.com/commentary/2014/09/17/op-ed-trouble-teen-wolf%3famp http://www.teen.com/2017/03/12/television/teen-television-shows-queerbaiting-gay-bait-audiences/#2 https://www.google.com/amp/amp.dailydot.com/upstream/teen-wolf-dead-female-characters-chart/ http://www.tv.com/news/teen-wolf-has-a-problem-regarding-female-characters-and-we-need-to-stop-ignoring-it-143956767458/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/ladygeekgirl.wordpress.com/2014/04/15/trigger-warning-kate-argent/amp/
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jasminehardy-blog1 · 5 years
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LGBTQ in Media
Starting with the obvious, movies and television shows are nothing like how they were sixty years ago. Instead of The Twilight Zone, we have Black Mirror and young adults would probably rather watch This is Us more than The Brady Bunch. The progression of media and film is really a fascinating thing to look at, and there are several milestones that should be celebrated and talked about. 
But because television and film are so influential to many people’s lifestyles and how we gain ideas and opinions, it is important to be able to assess when media is doing a good job at conveying healthy messages to the audience and when it is lacking.
 I want to draw attention to the LGBTQ community specifically because they still face a lack of representation and other progressive elements in television and film. 
Media featuring and/or appealing to people who identify as LGBTQ can negatively affect the community due to lack of representation, stereotypes, and an overabundant depiction of traumatic events that are often associated with LGBTQ characters. In order to create a more positive form of entertainment, television and film productions should try to be more inclusive and offer a wider variety of genres feautring LGBTQ characters.
While it is true that media has become more inclusive to the LGBTQ community, it is by no means perfect. Due to the lack of representation of LGBTQ characters, people are unable to make connections with themselves and what they see on television, which I feel is a vital part of feeling included in society. 
Studies conducted in 2018 by GLAAD, the Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation, show just how little POC (people of color) LGBTQ members are being depicted in media. Out of 28 LGBTQ characters, 43% were white and only 28.5% were Black/African American or Latinx (“Overview of Findings.” GLAAD.org). Furthermore, “There were zero Asian/Pacific Islander LGBTQ characters or any other race/ethnicity,” (“Overview of Findings.” GLAAD.org). 
Not only are POC members of the community not being properly represented, but bisexual and transgender identities in LGBTQ lack representation in media as well. According to GLAAD, in 2019 “Only three of 20 inclusive films (or 110 total films) included depictions of bi+ characters,” (“Overview of Findings.” GLAAD.org). There were zero films that feautured transgender characters. For teens suffering from dysphoria or even just those who want to feel that they are not alone, the fact that they are seeing such little of themselves in television may lead them to feel insecure in their identity.
 As the cherry on top, a lack of representation in media is often paired with the stereotyping of characters as well as several unhealthy tropes in television shows and movies. Stereotypes depicted in television in film lead to a variety of assumptions about members of the LGBTQ community. Wikipedia lists several common stereotypes that are placed on gay and lesbian people based on television and film. The list includes the idea that LGBTQ people: 
Are very knowledgable and open about sex (as well as very sexually active) 
Tend to seduce straight people into a relationship
In women’s case: dress either very manly or very “femme”
In men’s case: are very fashionable and well-groomed
In men’s case: they are very effeminate
Gay men have lisps or speak in a “girly” tone
(“LGBTQ stereotypes.” Wikipedia.org).
Television shows specifically are more prone to use unhealthy tropes such as queerbaiting, which Fanlore explains is “a term used to describe the perceived attempt by advertisers or canon creators to draw in a queer audience and/or slash fans by implying or hinting at a gay relationship that will never actually be depicted,” (“Queer Baiting.” Fanlore.org). Basically, LGBTQ fans are attracted to the show because they want to see the depiction of a relationship between two same-sex characters but because it’s too “taboo”, television never truly provides. 
Based on the evidence, it should be obvious just how harmful media can be to members of the community.
 First of all, the lack of representation of LGBTQ people who are not white and occasionally Latinx or Black almost erases the existence of them. It implies that the population of the LGBTQ community is far smaller than it actually spans which may weaken the community in the eyes of others. People may not even consider the idea of someone being both Pacific Islander and LGBTQ. Getting deeper than that, the average person may not imagine someone being both LGBTQ and crippled. 
The point I am trying to make is that because there is a severe lack of diversity in the LGBTQ characters that are being displayed, many don’t see it plausible that this variety of people can exist. And consider how that makes the person who does fit into all these identities feel. Well, they may feel as though they don’t have a platform to express themselves, or maybe they feel like they aren’t welcome in the community because they are not the majority. 
It is my view that by not truly showing the large expanse of identities, cultures, and types of people in the LGBTQ community, media effectively belittles the community in order to justify the lack of representation. Media is trying to appeal to those they see as “important”, implying that a straight and white audience takes priority over others.
 Furthermore, when media does depict LGBTQ characters, but goes on to stereotype them, they are further placing the community in a box. It’s as though they are saying “You can exist under these guidelines, and if you don’t then you're not valid.” 
Stereotypes often times turn LGBTQ characters into a joke. Media will dub a gay man as the designated best friend or throw in an LGBTQ side character, only meant to be support to a straight main character, or even include a bisexual character but making them the butt of several “indecisive” jokes. The effect this has on a member of LGBTQ community may be that they feel as though they are being made fun of or their identity is a joke. 
Those who are not in the LGBTQ community may form opinions based on what they see on television, as it is an easily accessible form of entertainment to many. As a result, they may begin to be biased towards LGBTQ people based on how they are portrayed in a show or a movie. 
As Iman Tagudina elegently summed up in their own essay on the reinforcement of homophobic stereotypes, “These false assumptions may be carried on after their pre-adolescent years, which may become harmful once they begin dealing with the real world,” (Tagudina, 13). Tagudina highlights that whether you’re straight or in the LGBTQ community, what you see on T.V. may affect how you think and act towards others and yourself.  It can be seen in television and film that while LGBTQ characters are present, they are not a priority, which makes it a lot easier for media productions to give the community a harmful reputation. 
I would like to form my own argument that while media in general featuring LGBTQ characters can be harmful to both the LGBTQ community and the audience as a whole for a variety of reasons, television and film that is meant to appeal directly to the community can be equally as harmful. First, let’s take a list of LGBTQ films appealing mainly towards gay men.
Love, Simon 
RENT
Alex Strangelove
Handsome Devil 
All of these movies are popular in the LGBTQ community heavily due to the fact that they focus on the relationship between two men. And while I agree that these movies do good towards the community, even if just because they actually attempt to create gay characters to identify with, I also would like to assert the one thing all of these movies have in common.
Love, Simon is a film about a (white) teenage boy whose being blackmailed due to his sexual orientation. 
RENT laments the hardships of being LGBTQ during the rise of STD. 
Alex Strangelove leads the audience through a (white) boy going through a sexual crisis while having a girlfriend. 
Handsome Devil is about two (white) boys who are gay in a heavily homophobic setting, and yes, at one point the main character is outed in front of everyone. 
While these films are good for including and actually attempting to show what it is like to be a member of the LGBTQ community, they also tend to focus on high stress, and sometimes traumatic situations such as losing a loved one or having all of your friends abandon you or the feeling of being alone in your time of need. 
I think that queer films make it hard for members of the LGBTQ community to feel like they are anything other than their sexual orientation, and also that because of their sexual orientation, the only situations they can experience must be related to the hardships of their sexuality. I’ve found that it is very uncommon to find an LGBTQ film in which the character is proud of their identity and have a plot where the main conflict isn’t something about why they should be unhappy with their sexuality. 
Comparing the main themes of the films listed above with typical romantic comedies such as Hitch, Clueless, and Sixteen Candles, it’s not hard to see just how different genres are when it comes to focusing on straight characters vs. LGBTQ characters.
 In all of the films listed above, the theme remains generally lighthearted, being about getting a date to prom or wanting your crush to notice you. And while I’m not saying that all heterosexual movies are lighthearted, because their are several that focus on darker themes, it is true that LGBTQ films are far less likely to include happy tones and low-stress situations. 
I will also point out that most LGBTQ films take the theme of coming-out and use that as a coming-of-age process, which normalizes the idea that people who are LGBTQ are not normal and must make that known to the world, as opposed to heterosexuals who are the “default” in a way. It also implies that the only coming-of-age LGBTQ people can face must be about their sexual orientation. 
On the other hand, coming-of-age films featuring straight characters can be about a variety of things such as sports (The Sandlot), clowns (IT), ditching school (Ferris Bueller's Day Off), and well, you get the point. 
I propose that the perfect fix for more healthy portrayals would be to try to get rid of the dark themes revolving around LGBTQ films, and also just widen the amount of entertainment for the LGBTQ community by placing these diverse characters in new and interesting settings. 
The majority of LGBTQ films are in the genres of drama and romance. Maybe instead of a highschool setting, there could be a fun story about two spies who are in love and of the same gender, or maybe a buddy-cop film featuring an asexual or aromantic character. Just as long as it promotes the idea that LGBTQ members can be in a setting that doesn’t require their life to revolve solely around the “pain” of their sexuality. 
Additionally, films and television could also try and do a better job at depicting LGBTQ characters with traits and hobbies that don’t reinforce common or incorrect stereotypes. For example, instead of a gay character who only cares about fashion and sex, no one would be expecting to see gay character who has a keen interest in building home projects simply because media erases the idea that. LGBTQ people have any other interests. Variety and originality is the first step to destroying the unhealthy stereotypes that media constantly conforms to when it comes to LGBTQ characters. 
Because media plays such a large role in everyday households, it is so important to work harder to try and create entertainment that does not belittle or give false impressions about a community of people. 
LGBTQ characters have a long way to go before they reach full acceptance in media, and we as a collective whole should speak up and recognize the vital role of all identities, races, and backgrounds. 
Everyone feels a little bit of joy as well as a sense of belonging when they can see themselves in a character, which is why it is important to try to include everyone. Not to mention it’s a lot more interesting than just seeing the same five character types on screen.
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burning-waters · 7 years
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That 21st century Sherlock Holmes fic everyone is watching
this is going to be a Sherlock-hate-stemming-from-unfulfilled-Johnlock rant and im sure most of my small amount of readers doesnt give two craps about this so be glad i learned how to hide text. also some spoilers maybe? carry on with your dashboard if you will. 
(main spoiler is that Johnlock didnt happen onscreen, but im sure tumblr has already made you aware of that.)
but imma rant here a bit because i’ve got nowhere else to do it and no one else to direct it to. also people are still hoping for more episodes that will make Johnlock a thing, but until that happens (if it happens) this is what i have to say about it.
first off im hoping you arent using the word “canon” to refer to anything more than just the BBC Sherlock rendition of these stories, since you cant make Johnlock Holmesian Canon because ACD never explicitly made it a thing. (as of now ACD Canon will be written so and BBC canon will be written so).
Mofftiss were all about trying to put a twist to the original stories but still keep the basics intact. sure they took their own spin on things, particularly with season 4 ep 3, but im glad they tried keeping to Canon and that they made references to it. they address many different things, like The Woman, three-continents Watson, Mrs Hudson’s missing husband, G. Lestrade and so many other loose ends that ACD didnt give a flying fuck about because he wanted Sherlock dead. fans were the ones that literally brought him back from the grave.
there was also the fact that at the time ACD wrote the stories, bromances were more commonly accepted (i dont see any old newspaper clippings being outraged with their relationship as being unbiblical so im kinda assuming). people can yell from any rooftop they want that the fact that Holmes and Watson -- in Canon -- go out for a walk “arm in arm” or that Holmes tells Watson at one point “quick, man, if you love me!” and Watson does what he asks, or that Holmes is ready to kill a man for (possibly) maiming Watson means that they are gay for each other, but that doesnt mean its true. you can argue that it is exactly what that means until you turn blue, and i will argue that it is exactly what it doesnt mean until i die too. 
if Canon is why Moftiss didnt feel like they should make it canon -- because they saw that this was a time period thing and nothing more -- then let them have it. no need to get red-to-the-face upset at them for not using this opportunity to give the LGBT community some representation. they never promised you that (pretty sure like they promised the opposite), the show was never about romance, and you can find that elsewhere. you can argue that they did queerbaiting (hell the originals have queerbaiting too if you read it in this generation), and they might as well be if you want to look at it like that, but these men are professional trolls. bad analogy: i could complain about them baiting us about Moriarty being dead or alive until the bitter end but that doesnt change what happened. again, profound apologies that it is an awful analogy because a character’s state of being is not on the same level as queerbaiting, but it proves my point: these men are trolls and we knew it from the start. some people probably kept watching because they hoped for a glimpse of Moriarty, with the cliff-hanger and all. but i wasnt caught off guard about the resolution of that loose end, just like i wasnt caught off guard with the fact that they never made Johnlock a thing. im thinking thats because i read the books and i had enough faith in Mofftiss to hope that they would do the right thing and respect the stories. 
now, did they possibly throw in subtext and Arty cliffhangers in there for the sake of baiting fans? heck yeah they probably did. the first like 10 minutes of TEH was all about pretty much mocking the fans in a loving way and then still making people question the solution they did give at the end of the episode. people are upset about that one too. did the final montage of Sherlock do that with all the ships? heck yeah. Johnlock was an open door, Sherlolly was an open door, even Mystrade was! MorMor was never rejected either, people. come on. 
if they didnt ship Sherlock with anyone in the end, it might be because they dont want to lose fans and so left all ships open for interpretation. most of all i think they wanted to keep Canon intact, and so they didnt mess with that friendship or with Sherlock’s sexuality -- i personally think if anything he is ace, from the stories themselves, but i digress. i commend them for leaving all of that open. theyre douchebags, i get it. but if you hate a show because of that, then you werent watching it for the show. you were watching it hoping it would become a romance, when in reality all it ever was advertised as was a crime show. 
if you want to watch a rendition of Sherlock Holmes where the stories are defenestrated and anything goes, have fun with Elementary -- they are lots of fun to watch if you imagine its pure fanfic, cus those writers didnt give much of a flying fuck for the stories. again, i feel like Mofftiss felt like finally doing their own thing and tying all loose ends their own way with the latest episode, but i feel like at this point they had the right to. they created enough of their own canon loose ends. by resolving those, they made me feel deeply for characters that never existed in Canon. and they made me appreciate old characters even more.
i will also say that people have been shipping Holmes and Watson since the dawn of time. Johnlock isnt a new 21st century thing. it’s been there. for FOREVER (dont quote me on that). and what have people done about it? wrote fanfic. write a tv show that will give you the representation you think you deserve. or find one that already does that.
but please don’t hate. Moftiss can be dicks at times, im not denying it. they have reacted poorly towards fans before. but its their story, not yours. a little respect would be nice. they respected ACD and still managed to do their own thing -- BBC Sherlock is literally nothing more than their Sherlock fanfic put to television and shared with the world. they just happen to be making money off their fic. 
no one is hating on your fic. dont hate on theirs.  
P. S. also, please, if you want to hate on them for season 4 (i want to hate on them for season 3), do it because of bad storytelling, plot holes, and loose ends, and mostly for making that episode the love child of Saw and Bond. i was not prepared for that. i’m at peace with it, i think -- it was brilliant, it was awful, and it was everything in between. what they promised us as good writers was to not make those mistakes that i mentioned above that you can hate them for. (i for one am all about suspension of disbelief and enjoying the ride for what it is. but like, seriously, how often do TWO genius kids come from one family???).
P. P. S. Jeremy Brett will always be my fav (sorryBennynotsry).
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