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loopy777 · 3 days

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Is Zuko a Gary Stu? A lot more people are becoming anti-Zuko especially after the comics. Thoughts?

Well, it depends how we're defining "Gary Stu." I tend to prefer a strict definition for it and "Mary Sue," that of a self-insert wish-fulfillment character. I also don't personally consider it to necessarily be a negative; one of my favorite fictional characters is George Lucas' Flash Gordon Gary Stu, Luke Skywalker.

But the common internet usages for the term typically translates to "character favored by the narrative and/or storyteller(s) to a degree that harms the story." So I'll address both definitions.

I don't think Zuko is any kind of wish-fulfillment character in the AtLA cartoon, nor do I think the narrative shows him any favoritism. In fact, I'd say the story goes out of its way to make things harder for Zuko than the basic character arc demands. It could've had him switch sides at the end of Book Earth, and I don't think there would have been much complaining. Likewise, the story could have had gAang come around to him a lot sooner in Book Fire, rather than spending entire episodes (and in Sokka's case a two-parter) reconciling him with the gAang one-by-one. I think his character arc is improved and given more impact by the desire to cover this extra rocky ground, although I also think 'The Boiling Rock' didn't need to be a two-parter and all of early Book Fire's filler episodes with the gAang should have been relocated to after Zuko's defection so that they'd have the added interest of showcasing the expanded gAang's new dynamic.

Ah, but then we get to the comics. I'm going to assume we're talking about Gene Yang's comics specifically, since Zuko has not appeared substantially in anything written by anyone else. It's easy to harp on these comics' use and treatment of Zuko, but I want to be clear that they're poorly written on pretty much every level. The dialogue is bad. Major plot threads are abandoned without comment. Everyone is mischaracterized. The humor is more juvenile than anything in the cartoon. What stories are told spin their wheels until they get wrapped up in a rush. There's bad, racist, pro-colonialism messages baked into them all. Etc and so on.

And yes, I do think these comics favor Zuko to their detriment and his. Gene Yang has admitted that Zuko is his favorite character in the cast. But even if he hadn't, we can see in 'The Promise' that the presentation has a lopsided preference for Zuko over Aang, the other main character of the story. Zuko is not portrayed as wrong for pressuring Aang to promise to kill him, despite Aang being uncomfortable with it and the whole idea being against Aang's major beliefs; compare that to the cartoon, where Zuko was portrayed as wrong and bullying in his attitude to try to get Aang to kill Ozai. In the matter of the former Fire Nation colonies, Aang and Zuko have opposing approaches, but rather than the story taking the stance that they need to compromise and mix'n'match their ideas, Zuko gets to utter the line, "I was right all along," while Aang has to be lectured by Katara, admit to being wrong, compromise with the Air Acolytes, and break off his relationship with his ghost mentor.

In 'The Search,' Zuko goes on to find his mother and learn her backstory, something that ends up not troubling or challenging him at all. She gives up her new identity to become his doting mother again and Zuko doesn't have a single doubt about it. He gets an adoring little sister in the form of Kiyi, despite her having a real problem with her mother choosing to become Ursa instead of keeping her familiar form. And his questionable treatment of Azula is not addressed; like Aang in 'The Promise,' she's the one who has to compromise (or in this case refuses to compromise).

You can see the pattern here of Zuko's presentation. This is where we can start to question if Zuko is Gene Yang's self-insert, but to do so, we would have to assume a lot of stuff about Gene Yang. For example, he breaks up Zuko's romance with Mai and then starts hinting at something with him and Suki; does that mean Gene Yang wants to date Suki? Then why bring Mai back so prominently in 'Smoke & Shadow' and then both go easy on her mistakes and break her up from Kei Lo at the end? Maybe Gene Yang wants a harem with both Suki and Mai, but if that's the case, then it's pretty odd that he ends his run on the comics with Zuko dating neither.

We could do the same for other aspects of Zuko's presentation (Does Yang want a tiny powerful Firebender as a little sister? Does he think all colonizers are awesome? Does he advocate denying first-amendment rights in times of danger? Is his favorite food to eat at winter time extra-spicy fire noodles?) But we'd probably run into similar questions we can't answer, leaving us to either assume way too much that would likely be wrong or admit that it doesn't matter.

Which brings us back to the much simpler idea of the character being favored beyond what is warranted. That helps with examining 'Smoke & Shadow,' where Zuko is actually portrayed as making some wrong choices for once in all of Yang's run of comics, like ordering his people's homes invaded and trashed on a vague hope that he'll find some information about Azula- but before that, he's somehow enlightened enough to make rainbow fire, and afterward, he solves everything with a quick apology to his people.

Usually, the narratives ignore Zuko's flaws and twist themselves into weird shapes to justify things. It's like Gene Yang started with the intentions of having Zuko make mistakes and grow over the course of the various stories, but then chickens out, so we're left with themes that feel incomplete or outright harmful. Zuko doesn't need to grow beyond his desire to have a Fire Nation elite (and their pet Earth Kingdom spouses and servants) rule over the former colonies forever, he gets to say, "I was right all along." He starts by locking Azula away in a straight-jacket, but then doesn't find a way to reconcile with her and treat her more humanely, because she goes fully homicidal and then runs away so he doesn't need to deal with her. But in 'Smoke & Shadow,' we get one example where, probably because Yang doesn't see it as that bad in the first, Zuko is allowed to temporarily be wrong before returning to a state of grace.

I think Gene Yang is trying to tell good Avatar stories. But, among his (many, many, many) mistakes, I think he's letting his favor for Zuko influence the stories he's trying to tell. He's trying to give his favorite character juicy dramatic material that lets him grow into an even more awesome character- but then he shies away from depicting his favorite in too harsh a light, ruining the whole thing.

The stories don't feel like they're going anywhere with him, despite him being a main character.

So if that fits with your definition of "Gary Stu," then yes, Zuko has become one in the comics. But he didn't start as one in the cartoon, and I don't think Gene Yang writes stories out of a desire for his favorite to marry Suki because Sword Girlfriend > Knife Wife.

Perhaps that's he never got Maiko back together; he likes Mai too much to make her the one in the wrong, but then that would mean Zuko needs to learn and grow, and that can't be right. ;)

#anonymous #avatar comics critical #atla comics critical #comics critical

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myimaginationplain · 6 months

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On one hand, I think that Kiyi is actually a wonderful idea for a character; you can get a lot of interesting stories out of inserting this innocent, guiless little girl into such a fraught & complex pre-existing family dynamic.

However, some mind-numbingly bad storytelling decisions surround Kiyi's existence in canon. Ursa's magical amnesia chief among them; it is so goddamm boring to take a character with as much baggage to chew on as Ursa has, only to make it so she has to grapple with literally none of it.

No Ursa looking at baby Kiyi & mourning for the two babies she was forced to leave behind, grieving children who are still alive. No Ursa looking at Kiyi grow up & seeing Zuko & Azula in her, equally as happy as she is afraid for her. No Ursa trying to give Kiyi as normal & happy a childhood as she can, while constantly looking over her own shoulder, praying that she won't be recognized. No Ursa hearing wild rumors about her older children's whereabouts & actions, not knowing what to believe.

No, instead of any of that, we just get Ursa becoming a blank slate who can now go off & live a blissfully ignorant happily ever after with her (equally blank) high school sweetheart, forgetting the very children whom she risked everything for in the first place. And that sucks.

Also, if I were writing Kiyi, I'd just say fuck it & make her Ozai's kid. That's a thousand times more interesting.

#I've been toying with the thought of sitting down & writing a non canon compliant post-atla fic #about where ursa was during the show & what she was doing #& honestly I think I'm gonna do it. because the potential was so wasted #atla #avatar the last airbender #kiyi #ursa #the search #atla comics critical #is that a tag people use? idk

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nono-bunny · 6 months

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Seeing people saying they "don't have high hopes for the ATLA live action because the original creators aren't working on it" and I'm like??? Bitch what?? That's the exact reason I even have any shred of hope for it AT ALL!! Did you even see how they butchered ALL OF THEM as soon as they were the ones who had sole control over the narrative in the comics? Did you not watch the same dumb deux-ex-lion finale I did? Like Bryke are awfullll and they have such a flawed understanding of their own world and characters that it's not even funny- them departing the project because of creative differences is a BLESSING, because their creative vision sucks, there's no lack of proof out there about it either!!

Anyway I'm very very excited for the live action after watching the trailer! Honestly as long as there's no Kataang I'll probably be happy with it given that that's the number one reason for Aang's character stagnation and I don't want to hate LA Aang too lol

#avatar the last airbender #atla #avatar the last airbender live action #anti bryke #atla critical #atla comics critical #anti kataang

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sokkastyles · 7 months

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Reading these tags made me think...what if the search for Ursa was motivated by Katara thinking about how Zuko never talked about his mother, and asking him about it (like he asked about her mother and listened to her tell the story), instead of being motivated by some lame old dude telling Zuko he wasn't a good firelord if he didn't have a traditional family.

#zuko #katara #zutara #the southern raiders #the search #ursa #atla comics #atla comics critical

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mah-o-daryaa · 4 months

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For a show that's progressive, one-of-a-kind, ground-breaking for its time, and relies on "Show, don't Tell" a lot throughout the series, it bugs me how ATLA (or, more specifically, Bryke) preferred to tell the audience that Aang is a master airbender without showing us why. I mean, Toph, Zuko, Azula, and Katara are all shown practicing and improving their mastery in bending (although Katara has become rather overpowered), so why can't Aang have the same treatment?

Yes, Aang may be a child prodigy, and he did get airbending tattoos from inventing the air scooter, but I personally think that inventing an airbending technique (which demonstrates impressive ability and skill) is a way to gain the arrows prematurely, but isn't a requirement. Nothing in the show ever suggests just how far he's mastered his native element, let alone the other three. In the beginning of Sozin's Comet, Part 1: The Phoenix King (3:18), Aang says he thinks he still needs to practice his firebending more (which in hindsight makes sense, as he's just started relearning it from the dragons five episodes ago), and Toph notes that his earthbending could use more work too. Right off the bat, Aang is two elements away from complete mastery of all four, but later on he's seen practicing waterbending with Katara, implying he hasn't mastered it either.

We don't even see Aang practicing his airbending by himself post-iceberg, preferring to show off to random girls (like in Kyoshi Island). He just learns the elements, but doesn't really learn the philosophies behind each element. In this regard, he makes Kuruk and Roku look venerated in contrast. (To be fair to Aang, he had a specific deadline to master the four elements before Sozin's Comet that no other Avatar besides Wan had to deal with, but couldn't he try to make an effort to learn from the other nations?) Additionally, compared to Tenzin and Zaheer, Aang doesn't stand a chance against either of them (even though Tenzin is his son, but since Tenzin wasn't the Avatar, he could focus on upholding the Air Nomad culture and legacy). Even Jinora could go toe-to-toe with him at similar ages. He isn't really that impressive in any of the elements, to be honest; we've seen what a master of any specific element can do in both ATLA and LOK, as well as in the novels.

The main thing people often get wrong is that mastery isn't a final goal; it's a specific mindset. As in Pai Sho, what separates true masters from everyone else is that true masters always look for improvement in their strategy or skills. That's why Aang isn't a real master of the four elements: He always takes the easy way out, never trying to better himself or improve what he can already do.

I think this quote from Zaheer perfectly sums up what I've been saying: When you base your expectations on what you see, you blind yourself to the possibilities of a new reality. Even though it stems from his anarchist beliefs, it is genuinely one of the more insightful pieces of wisdom in the franchise because it promotes progress, a constant theme in life. Toph was able to invent metalbending because she wanted to "see" a reality where she could be recognized for her own talent in spite of her blindness; Zuko could learn firebending from the dragons because he could see a reality where he would regain his honor and fight alongside the Avatar, and so on. By contrast, Aang only takes things from surface-level, not putting any effort into understanding the true meaning of being the Avatar.

Speaking of Pai Sho, guess which Avatar constantly improved his/her abilities? Kuruk. Unlike Aang, Kuruk readily asked his companions, Jianzhu, Hei-Ran, and Kelsang, to continue teaching him, ever after he mastered the four elements that he was required to do, saying they would all benefit from the experience (the "true master" quote I mentioned above was actually said by him). Not only that, it was even inverted; sometimes they taught Kuruk, other times he taught them (which technically makes him the first known Avatar to teach bending to others). He was right, as during their lifetimes, they were the most powerful benders of their respective elements in the world!

Kuruk also had an intuitive connection to each of the four bending philosophies, which to this day remains unrivaled by any other Avatar, and was also one of the first people to suggest the idea that the four elements are connected (homeboy's literally a younger Water Tribe Avatar version of proto-Iroh, I'm honestly not going to be surprised if Iroh actually learned his belief from Kuruk during the former's visits to the Spirit World over tea and Pai Sho matches). If you ask me, Mone, learning the cultures and philosophies of the four nations is way more important than mastering the four elements, because the Avatar isn't just the bridge between the four nations; he/she is also the symbol of a unified world, and the franchise is saying that only one Avatar even bothered to do that? In my opinion, if we go by this rule, that easily cements Kuruk as the greatest Avatar in history!

Aang, on the other hand, never does this. Instead, he puts the Air Nomads on a high pedestal (which in turn causes him to place Katara on a high pedestal), and doesn't respect or learn from other nations' philosophies. He openly disrespects SWT culture and actively makes sure Tenzin doesn't have any exposure to the culture that Tenzin still belongs too, and worse, he pushes his own culture on other people's throats (remember the time he forced a homeless couple to "give up on hope because it's a big waste of time"? Or the time he forced Katara to not murder Yon Rha?) and values his own nation and values above the rest of the world (like the time he refused to kill Firelord Ozai because "all life is sacred", even though he has actually killed before, but if he doesn't kill Ozai, the latter's going to burn the entire Earth Kingdom to the ground!). That doesn't sound like something the Avatar is allowed to do, but Aang gets away with it anyway because ... hero?

There's actually another Avatar who focused on his/her own nation above the rest of the world. Avatar Szeto, Yangchen's predecessor, became a government official in his homeland, the Fire Nation. Under his tenure, the Fire Nation transformed from a fragmented, disaster-stricken state to the centralized, technologically-advanced nation we know of today. Unfortunately, this led him to neglect the other nations and, shortly after his death, the four nations were caught in a political event known as the Platinum Affair, which Yangchen had to deal with, eventually kick-starting the cycle of the current Avatar fixing their past lives' mistakes, while leaving problems for their future selves to fix. This problem might have even led to the growing ambition of Firelords Zoryu and Sozin as dictators, with the latter starting the Hundred Years War.

Aang not only valued his own nation's values above the others, he also forced said values on his non-Air Nomad companions; signed anti-miscegenation laws and tried to forcefully deport Fire Nationals from the colonies to return the land to the Earth Kingdom, even though they had already blended in with Earth Kingdom citizens, didn't wan to be separated from their families, and Zuko perceived the citizens of mixed heritage as his own subjects; refused to let his family practice SWT culture, even though his children could benefit from being members of both cultures, not just one or the other, and set an example for mixed-race families around the world; refused to teach Kya and Bumi Air Nomad culture because he thought they weren't airbenders and therefore "not real Air Nomads", even though they were just as Air Nomad as Tenzin was, if not more; and forced Tenzin to uphold the legacy of an entire nation on his shoulders. The fact that this was all written by complete accident is the cherry on top, representing just how badly Bryke screwed up.

... On a completely unrelated note, The Other Side of Paradise by Glass Animals (which is also one of my favorite songs) is definitely a Kuruk song. The last third of the song in particular sums up his tragic journey as the Avatar so well, and I always think of him while listening to it.

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balanceoflightanddark · 4 months

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Meanwhile, at the Avatar Studios cafeteria:

Sokka: First, they told me to not hog the smarts of the group. Then they tell me I'm not funny. Stupid micromanaging...

Toph: You and me both...

(Pan to a table with Zuko and Mai talking with Gene Yang)

Zuko: What kind of writing was that?! You wrote me like I was an egotistical manchild! And you wrote Mai-

Mai: I'll handle this...you wrote me like a sociopathic spoiled brat!

Gene: I'm sorry you feel that way. I was just trying to use my experiences to develop your characters.

Zuko: I find out that you're ghostwriting for the new movies, I'm coming after you!

Mai: Yeah, and I'll show you what it's like to be on the wrong side of my knife.

(Stabs a dagger into the table, scaring both Gene and Zuko)

(Pan over to another table with Mike, Bryan, and Azula who is munching on some mochi and has a fruit drink. She has her boots on the table cause at this point, she couldn't give a fuck)

Mike: The movie's dull. It feels like we're going through the motions and nobody is learning-

Azula: I learned not to pull another Smoke and Weed. Especially after my one-shot. But I'm not on the writing team, so what the hell do I know?

Bryan: Okay, look. We're gonna repair your image. And the way we're going to do that...is with a new scheme we cooked up!

Azula: Well for starters, I cook up the schemes. Second, we've been over this. 180s in my character doesn't work.

Mike: Well we can't exactly let you beat the heroes and upset the status quo. Nor can we just let you become a hero. You have a reputation to uphold!

Azula: Buddy, if you can't see the potential in a child soldier healing in what's supposed to be your "Golden Age", we have nothing to say to each other.

#atla #atla shitpost #atla comics critical #anti atla comics #anti bryke #anti gene yang #atla incorrect quotes #azula #princess azula #sokka #toph #zuko #mai #incorrect quotes #incorrect quote #incorrect quote source: looney tunes back in action

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justanotherthrowaway1950 · 4 months

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Why I Dislike Amon and Kuvira

Note: While I don’t think The Legend of Korra (TLOK) is as good as Avatar: The Last Airbender (ATLA), I still think it is a pretty good show, and that 99.9% of its problems can be traced to Nick not giving Bryke a full four seasons with a proper budget from the outset. However, I don’t think any piece of fiction is perfect, hence why I criticize TLOK like I do ATLA.

Amon and Kuvira are two characters who are important to TLOK’s narrative not only on an individual, character level, but also because they represent previously unaddressed social issues in ATLA’s world as well.

This is because in Amon’s case, the Equalist movement he heads deals with an important issue that the original ATLA glosses over at best: the issue of benders being innately superior to non-benders.

Or more specifically, the fact that, unless you are a highly trained and/or highly gifted non-bender like Piandao, Mai, Ty Lee, Suki, or Sokka, your bog standard bender who has the slightest amount of training has a nigh-insurmountable power advantage, and thus has every incentive to lord their unearned power over non-benders.

Meanwhile, Kuvira deals with an issue that up until her becoming the main villain of Season 4 was barely addressed in TLOK’s intro and glossed over in the ATLA comics: how would Earth Kingdomers feel about the United Republic being formed from the Fire Nation’s oldest Earth Kingdom colonies.

Or more specifically, how, after getting pressured by Fire National colonialists and those close to them, King Kuei and Avatar Aang worked with Fire Lord Zuko to give the oldest colonists the option of self-determination, which they exercised to form the United Republic.

This, even though the oldest colonies were dominated politically and economically by the Fire Nationalist colonists and their close allies, with the marginalized Earth Kingdomer masses having little to no say in regards to the above mentioned process.

(If you disagree with my characterization of how Earth Kingdomers would view the resolution of the Yu Dao crisis, please check out The Problem with Yu Dao and A Potential Solution where I go into much more detail about this topic.)

However, it is precisely because Amon and Kuvira represent previously unaddressed social issues in ATLA’s world that I dislike them.

For in Amon’s case, before his identity was revealed, I was interested to see how the Krew would defeat him, let alone defeat the Equalist Movement since it wasn’t a problem that could be punched.

However, after his identity was revealed, I quickly soured on his character since, with him being a psychic, 24/7 bloodbender, it became apparent that the only way to beat him would be having an Avatar State Korra fight him or through a deus ex machina, with the latter being the way how he was defeated.

And I started disliking him once it became clear that the Equalist movement died off just because he was exposed as a fraud and Republic City’s all-bender council got replaced by a democratically elected unitary executive, one who so far has been non-benders due to non-benders numerical dominance.

This is because the underlying issue of benders having an innate advantage over non-benders never really got resolved, and so I hate how Amon’s character was used to avoid a real discussion or give any real solutions to said problem.

Especially since in real life, even if a movement’s leader is exposed as a fraud, the movement, or at least some variation of it, will continue to persist since movements, or more specifically, underlying issues in society, create leaders, not the other way around.

Meanwhile, I dislike Kuvira because, despite growing up in a world where the horrors of the Hundred Year War and the failures of the Hundred Year War era Fire Nation were surely taught to children like her, she decided to repeat them with her concentration camps and illegal and immoral war of conquest.

(Yes, I know canonically Kuvira did not know about the concentration camps, but even if that is the case, I still hold her responsible for them.)

(This is because commanders/generals in the real world are responsible for the actions of their subordinates when it comes to war crimes, and more generally, leaders are generally responsible for the actions of their subordinates when their subordinates are acting within the scope of their relationship. Thus, I hold her to that standard, even if the war crimes tribunal of the United Republic doesn’t.)

(Also, her attempt to retake the United Republic was an illegal and immoral war of conquest since the United Republic had been a sovereign state for over 70 years, with its sovereignty recognized by all the other nations in the world, including the Earth Empire’s predecessor, the Earth Kingdom. Moreover, even if it hasn’t been said explicitly yet in canon material, I am pretty sure in the 70-odd years between the end of ATLA and the start of TLOK the five nations signed treaties making wars of conquest illegal.)

This, even though her adopted grandma fought in the War and was friends with Fire Nationals who grew up in the Hundred Year War era Fire Nation, and more likely than not told her about her and her Fire National friends experiences.

And why does she do all that? Not because she actually believes that the way the United Republic was formed was immoral and an act of injustice against the Earth Kingdom, but because of unresolved abandonment issues.

And when she “redeems” herself, she does the bare minimum before finally admitting her fault and getting house arrest in Zafou, the closest thing to paradise on Earth.

I thought Kuvira could have been used to tell a story about the evils of revanchism, and how an inability to let go of past territorial injustices and focus on the present leads people to becoming the very monsters they claim to be fighting against.

That and what steps an authoritarian conqueror would have to take to credibly redeem themselves not only in the world’s eyes, but also in the eyes of their people, who they betrayed and misled with their lies about peace and prosperity through violence and subjugation.

Instead, we instead essentially get a sane, adult Azula who doesn’t have the excuse of indoctrination and got a really undeserved and unearned redemption that fanfics often give to a heavily woobified Azula.

This, all while never directly addressing the Earth Kingdom’s lingering resentment towards the United Republic, nor ever giving a concrete resolution to said resentment.

So to conclude, I dislike Amon and Kuvira’s characters because the resolution of their arcs were not only unsatisfying on a personal level, but also ruined the potential to meaningfully address key issues present in TLOK’s world, thus weakening TLOK as a whole.

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nexstage · 1 year

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#atla comics #atla analysis #atla comics critical #atla meta

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five-flavor-soup · 18 days

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i see zuko barely mentioning his friends in LOK 100% as a result from the absolute shitshow that was the promise. literally only suki was genuinely in his corner. the kid got left alone to run a war-torn, highly unstable country at 16. his uncle fucked off to ba sing se and his friends went to gallivant around the world and be relatively free in what they were doing and he’s like. stressed out of his mind trying to keep his nation AND himself from unraveling. we don’t hear about letters inquiring as to how he is doing. we don’t hear about genuine and helpful visits from any of them. iroh HAS to know zuko has an aversion to asking for help in addition to a massive sense of responsibility but he just?? assumes everything is peachy?

AND THEN. the conclusion to the comic, after zuko almost gets KILLED, is that zuko is ‘still just a boy’??? if so, then why the fuck wasn’t anyone helping??? if he’s still just a boy (just a CHILD) why did everybody just let him run himself into the ground??

oh, but no. he’s totally gone ‘barmy’, surely, while you allcarelessly ran around having a bit of a sort-of-break post-war. no wonder the remains and memories of the gaang feel so splintered in LOK. they really just destroyed the found family aspect that was so appealing in ATLA.

#i despise the promise if you can’t tell #and dislike most of the comics #some moments are good. most are shit #atla critical #atla comics critical #zuko #uncle iroh #the gaang #and don’t even get me STARTED on the character assassination of sokka and katara

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akiizayoi4869 · 9 months

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one of the many things i find weird about the yang comics why did they make suki and the kyoshi warriors' zuko's bodyguards?? im aware that in-story mai asked them to but it just baffles me

Yeah, I found that to be a weird writing choice. Like....he burned down their village, possibly killing some people as a result. And from what we see in the show and comics, Zuko does nothing to make up for that. Other than a half assed apology that he gave to Suki, and that doesn't even really count since he forgot. So why should they want to work for him?

#asks #anon #atla #zuko #kyoshi warriors #atla comics critical #anti yang #aki answers things

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writebecauseyoucannotbreathe · 2 years

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#anti kiyi #meme #atla #avatar the last airbender #anti atla comics #atla comics critical

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wingsfreedom · 2 years

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Kiyi's most notable characteristics (in her overall flat, wish-fulfillment character):

She's a Firebender prodigy

She's sassy

She calls Zuko "Zuzu"

But she likes to play with dolls and admires Zuko instead of Ozai.

#what should i tag this lol #atla comics critical

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sokkastyles · 7 months

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Hi, I just wanted to hear your take on maiko post atla since you read the comics. Thanks!

I have not read Smoke and Shadow, but I know that it's the comic where Mai, after breaking up with Zuko in The Promise because he didn't tell her he was struggling emotionally (or something), gets a new boyfriend for the purpose of making the guy she broke up with jealous. Then gets mad at him when he gets upset at her for intentionally trying to make him upset. The guy she broke up with for struggling emotionally. Then she keeps secret that her dad is trying to murder him - the guy she broke up with for keeping secrets - and when called out on that, throws his own abuse at the hands of his father back in his face as an excuse, instead of actually owning up to her actions. Like, the difference between Zuko and Mai here is that Zuko stopped enabling his horrible father and Mai didn't, and using Zuko's history of abuse against him this way is gross. Also, maybe Zuko didn't share his emotional problems with Mai because their relationship is characterized by Mai exploiting Zuko's emotions. Like, maybe she was jealous of Ozai for exploiting Zuko's emotions because she thinks that's her job? Idk, that was a whole mess.

#antimaiko #atla comics critical

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prodogg · 1 year

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#anti yang #anti bryke #pd meme #anti atla comics #atla meme #atla memes #atla #avatar: the last airbender #atla comics critical #memes #meme #pd talks #my edit

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balanceoflightanddark · 7 months

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You can NEVER belong

You know, I was watching Lilo & Stitch the other day when something sort of dawned on me. Mainly, I believe I figured out why, at least to me, Azula's handling in the comics was so horrible.

Her storyline basically was "you don't belong anywhere".

Think about it. Her brother shoved her in an asylum and basically saw her as a tool. Her mother replaced her with a half-daughter. Her friends hate her guts. And she has absolutely NOBODY in the post-war era who is willing to hear her out or treat her anything less than a monster.

Going back to Lilo & Stitch, this was something that Jumba flat out told Stitch when he ran away into the jungle. That he was meant to destroy, and he didn't belong with anyone. Mind you, this is after Stitch leaves Lilo and Nani cause he believed he screwed things up so badly, the two are gonna be separated.

What the comics did was basically validate Jumba's comment to Stitch, only with Azula. That because she was raised to be a weapon and conditioned by her father, she was a burden and didn't belong in society.

...please note that the comics were geared towards kids. Some of which are probably gonna be atypical and struggling with the same stuff Azula or Stitch were grappling with.

Imagine them reading this comic...and walking away with them believing that like Azula, they're good for nothing. People like Zuko can belong because they fit easier into society.

If you identify with Azula though, the comics might as well have a big sign that says "we don't want you around".

#azula #princess azula #atla #azula deserved better #anti atla comics #atla comics critical

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justanotherthrowaway1950 · 4 months

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Why I Headcanon Azula Suffering from Mental Illness, Pre-Sozin's Comet

Note: To make it super clear, I have no relevant training when it comes to mental health, or in psychology in general. I am just a fan sharing my headcanon based on what I think would lead into interesting storytelling. So if you have any problems (ex. you think I engaged in ableism) with my characterization and/or diagnosis of Azula, please let me know in the comments.

One of the more contentious arguments in the ATLA fandom is whether or not Azula has any mental disorder(s), and if so, what they are.

Some fans think Azula suffered from some combination of antisocial personality disorder, narcissistic personality disorder, and/or bi-polar personality disorder, and so all the events of the back half of Season 3 did was make her actively psychotic.

Meanwhile, there are other fans who believe that Azula’s problem was being a poorly socialized kid who was raised to be the perfect conqueror and tyrant, and so her mental breakdown during Sozin’s Comet was a temporary stress-based breakdown caused by her life falling apart.

And while the comics could have provided a clear answer, they unfortunately haven’t as of the time of this post.

This is because while Azula suffered from constant delusions and hallucinations for at least a year, they can be easily explained by her less than ideal treatment in her asylum.

(Yes, apparently it is canon that there is systemic abuse present in the Fire Nation’s asylum system, and that it played a major role in not only Azula’s worsened mental state in the comics, but also why the Fire Warriors willingly joined Azula’s side as well.)

Moreover, despite her and Zuko claiming that she appears to mentally better off in Smoke and Shadow, with Azula claiming that she no longer sees or hears “Ursa”, she occasionally is drawn in the same fashion as an actively psychotic Azula is in The Search.

Which suggests that her escaping the asylum and finding a new purpose in life, turning Zuko into a tyrant or retaking the throne for herself, is just a temporary fix.

In addition, at least in the post-Sozin’s Comet comics written by Gene Luen Yang, Azula is supposed to be suffering from a split personality disorder.

Yet I am pretty sure that a significant portion of fandom would agree with me when I say that did not appear to be the case in those comics considering Azula never appears to switch between her normal personality and any alters.

Therefore, considering the franchise refuses to give a clear answer on what, if any, mental illness(es) Azula has, what, if any, mental illness(es) Azula has is the realm of headcanons for now.

So, what mental illness(es), if any, do I headcanon Azula suffering from?

Well, I headcanon that Azula has (childhood) schizoaffective disorder plus complex post-trauma stress disorder (C-PTSD) caused by the fact that Ursa did manage to teach her morals, but she had to consciously disregard them to be her father's perfect heir.

And that the first time she hallucinated Ursa was after her father made her do something heinous, like torturing an agitator in a prison at his command, or after she smiled after Zuko's burning, thinking that deserved it, even though deep down she knew it was wrong.

I also headcanon that she went to great lengths to hide her hallucinations and avoid triggering herself by doing things like avoiding mirrors to the point that no one other than Lo and Li suspected there was anything wrong with her.

But as Zuko, Ty Lee, and Mai “abandon” her before the events of the show occur, she starts to fall apart.

Hence why she seeks out Ty Lee and Mai, even though there are better fighters available like Combustion Man, and why she allows Zuko to "redeem" himself.

That and "Ursa" telling her that she has been a bad sister for trying to imprison or kill her own brother, and that he deserves to come back home, not in chains or in a coffin, but by her side as their father’s rightful heir once again.

So, with her brother and friends back in her life, combined with the fact that she has succeeded in securing her father’s love by essentially winning the war as far as she is concerned, Azula is able to keep “Ursa” for the most part suppressed.

Hence why Azula appears to be happy and even somewhat normal during the first part of Season 3.

This, even though “Ursa” keeps telling her from time to time that it is wrong to blackmail her brother about the Avatar’s potential survival, and that it is a matter of time before Mai and Ty Lee stop tolerating her after everything she has done to them, especially Ty Lee.

So it’s no surprise that after Zuko, Mai, Ty Lee, and Ozai's "betrayals", especially considering the nature of their “betrayals” and how they all occurred within a short timeframe, that she becomes actively psychotic, with her condition then worsening due to the abusive asylum she was placed in, as well as the fact no one came to visit her until Zuko needed her to find Ursa.

But after Noriko apologizes for not loving her enough, plus Zuko affirming that he will always love her, she stops being actively psychotic due to a combination of no longer being in the asylum and her realizing her purpose in life is to "help" Zuko.

However, Azula hasn’t really healed, since her actions in Smoke and Shadow were essentially having a manic episode due to having a new purpose in life, no longer being in the asylum, and having new friends in the form of the Fire Warriors.

Moreover, her trying to turn Zuko into a tyrant, or if that fails, retaking the throne for herself, is a giant coping mechanism since actively coming to terms with the fact her trying to be her father’s perfect heir alienated her from everyone who she cared about would be too much for her psyche.

Especially since there doesn’t seem any way to redeem herself, let alone get her brother, Mai, and/or Ty Lee’s forgiveness and companionship again.

And why do I headcanon Azula suffering from (childhood) schizoaffective disorder alongside C-PTSD?

Well, initially, before rewatching ATLA, I used to think that Azula’s breakdown was a temporary, stress-induced breakdown caused by her life falling apart.

But after rewatching ATLA, or more specifically, the mirror scene, I picked on something very peculiar: Azula doesn’t appear to be shocked by the presence of “Ursa”, even though as far as she is concerned, Ursa has been gone for over five years at this point.

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Azula: “All right hair, it's time to face your doom.”

Azula grabs the bangs hanging in front of her face. She lifts them in the air and cuts them, with them falling near her feet. Her reflection in the mirror shows her grinning, with her hair a mess, but she stops grinning as she notices Ursa appears in the reflection, behind Azula.

Ursa: “What a shame, you always had such beautiful hair.”

Azula: “What are you doing here‌?”

Ursa: “I didn't want to miss my own daughter's coronation.”

Azula: “Don't pretend to act proud. I know what you really think of me. You think I'm a monster.

Ursa: [Cuts to shot of Azula looking at her reflection in the mirror, clearly angered; off-camera.] “I think you're confused. All your life you used fear to control people, like your friends Mai and Ty Lee.”

Azula: [Closes her eyes before turning around sharply to face her mother.] “Well what choice do I have?! [Cuts to shot of her standing in the room, her back to the mirror which still shows the reflection of her mother.] Trust is for fools. Fear is the only reliable way. Even you fear me.”

Ursa: [Sincerely.] “No. I love you, Azula. I do.”

Cuts to close-up of Azula as she bends over slightly, tears in her eyes, and her hair hanging down in messy locks. Cuts to shot of her hand gripped around a hairbrush on the table. The camera shifts as the enraged princess lets out a shout and hurls the brush at the mirror. The resulting impact shatters a large portion of the mirror, including where Ursa's reflection was seen. Cuts to overhead shot of the room as Azula kneels over and begins bitterly crying. The room is devoid of any other people, showing that Ursa's reflection was a mere hallucination.

___________________________________________________________

So, after reading the comics and learning that not only did Azula continue to suffer from hallucinations and delusions, but also that her “recovery” wasn’t really a recovery at all, I came to the conclusion that you can tell a compelling story of Azula suffering from (childhood) schizoaffective disorder plus C-PTSD.

Or more specifically, you can tell a compelling story of Azula constantly struggling to suppress her conscience after Ursa left and she got molded into Ozai's perfect weapon, with her symptoms worsening as her friends and brother slowly but surely leave her life, only getting better after she forcibly brings them back into her life.

But after Zuko, Mai, Ty Lee, and Ozai “betray” her one by one, making her (subconsciously) realize that all the people she had hurt and pushed away in pursuit of Ozai’s "love" was all for nothing, and that she was wrong to ignore to “Ursa”, she can no longer keep her symptoms under check.

And that her behavior from Sozin’s Comet onward can be explained due a combination of the asylum worsening her condition, her going through periods of mania and depression, and her trying to avoid consciously admitting that Ozai’s abuse and her own choices led her to lose everything that mattered to her since doing so might break her for good.

So to conclude, I headcanon Azula suffering from (childhood) schizoaffective disorder plus C-PTSD, even pre-Sozin’s Comet, partially because Azula was not surprised at the presence of “Ursa” during the mirror scene, and partially because she continued to be suffering from delusions and hallucinations long after Sozin’s Comet.

And while I wish the writers for the franchise would do more research before trying to depict Azula suffering from such disorders, I do think with has already be depicted and said that there is enough present already to tell a compelling story involving Azula trying to deal with and overcome such disorders, regardless if she actually does succeed in overcoming them, or at least learn how to manage them.

#azula #atla #atla comics #avatar legends #azula meta #atla meta #atla comics meta #atla comics critical #justanotherthrowaway1950meta

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