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#asoue theory
snicketstrange · 8 months
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Solving the Apparent Plot Hole in SB of Netflix's ASOUE
The mystery of Esmé's sugar bowl in Netflix's "A Series of Unfortunate Events" is an endless source of speculation among fans. Kit Snicket's claim that the sugar bowl contains "sugar" that can cure the disease caused by the MM fungus has upset many, and for good reason:
The cure for the MM fungus was originally discovered by Beatrice Baudelaire, who used a hybrid apple and horseradish in her experiments. Nothing suggests that she would give special status to the resulting "sugar."
Count Olaf also seeks the sugar bowl, but he explicitly states in the TGG adaptation that he believed the MM fungus no longer existed. So why would he seek a cure for a disease he thought had been eradicated?
Horseradish alone is already highly effective in preventing death caused by the MM fungus. Sunny was infected, used horseradish, and showed no side effects or traces of the disease. This makes the definitive cure for the disease less valuable than one might think.
In truth, the only way to view Netflix's ASOUE canon as coherent is to accept the fact that Kit Snicket wasn't entirely honest about the sugar bowl's contents.
So, can we deduce what's really in Netflix's sugar bowl based on the information we have?
In Netflix's "A Series of Unfortunate Events" series, various clues are given about the mysterious contents of the sugar bowl. First, the contents are edible, evidenced by a flashback where Esmé uses the sugar bowl's contents to make tea. This same scene also reveals that the tea tasted bitter, suggesting the bitter nature of the contents. Beatrice, also present in this flashback, hints that the contents have some sort of power, adding that this power shouldn't be in the hands of one person but could be shared with many. Additionally, the contents are tangible: Quigley looks inside the sugar bowl and sees something he can't fully understand but is definitely there. Lastly, Kit Snicket, known for telling half-truths and omitting information, claims the sugar bowl contains "sugar" that cures the fatal MM fungus disease. This information, given Kit's history, may only be partially true.
So, how can these contradictions be reconciled? The crux of my theory lies in the idea that the "sugar" inside the sugar bowl is much more than it appears to be.
All signs point to there actually being sugar in the sugar bowl, likely derived from Beatrice's research with the bitter hybrid apple. What we call sugar could really be a remedy. But it can't just be a remedy for the MM fungus disease.
Firstly, Beatrice must have conducted various different experiments while on the island. After all, everything ends up on that island sooner or later. She must have used rare ingredients from shipwrecks or something that accidentally fell into the ocean somewhere to combine with her basic experiment of blending horseradish with apples. After all, the end result contains "something" that is abortive. Neither apples nor horseradish have abortive substances. This suggests that Beatrice used additional ingredients.
(This detail was first brought to my attention by TheAsh , as far as I know) She may not even know exactly what those ingredients are, as labels made of paper could easily dissolve in water.
If, by chance, in one of these experiments, it were possible to produce a unique fruit and a special type of hybrid apple, formed from a very specific formula and rare ingredients (some of which even Beatrice might not know), then maybe we're onto something. If the fruits from a single harvest had the power not just to cure the disease caused by the MM fungus... but perhaps the ability to cure all diseases! And that would be truly hard to replicate elsewhere, even by Beatrice herself.
So we might have something there. This would indeed be a great parallel to the biblical account of the tree of life, to which TE clearly refers (in a somewhat inverted manner, but still a reference). The tree of life in the Garden of Eden could make someone live forever. Beatrice's apple could cure all diseases. But this phenomenon wasn't replicated, and Beatrice knew she couldn't replicate the experiment.
In that case, to prevent the specific apples from losing their properties when they spoil, Beatrice must have made "sugar" from these apples. A type of sugar that preserved the healing properties of the fruit of life. But where would she store it? Indeed, this powder became the most valuable substance in the world.
And so, a safe, discreet (and preferably beautiful) container was needed to hold something so valuable and powerful. Esmé's sugar bowl proved suitable, as it could preserve the sugar even in case of fire and flood.
Esmé, thirsty for power, would love to be the guardian of such a substance. And of course, the sugar bowl is hers. Has she remained so beautiful and youthful over the course of 14 years by consuming a bit of this sugar over the years? Either way, after discussing with Esmé the importance of sharing the sugar bowl's contents with others, she felt obligated to steal it from Esmé.
catastrophist , this theory was for you! I hope you enjoyed reading it.
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mr-mentally-ill · 9 months
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Woah Mr Mentally Ill posting twice in one day??
...who cares lol
Anyway– I'm here today to talk to you about the use of color in ASOUE. So let's get into it!
Okay let's start off with basics: yellow represents innocence and purple represents evil. In the early days of the first season, Sunny wears yellow colored clothes. As she gets older however, she wears more colors like pink and grey.
Purple is the color that Esmé wears at the opera. It's also the color that the man with the beard but no hair and the woman with hair but no beard wear. In the scene wear the baudelaires help burn down the hotel and help Olaf get away, Violet wears purple.
Again, going back to yellow, look at the island. Now this might be a bit of a stretch, so take it with a grain of salt. So yellow and red make orange right? So someone with not much knowledge on the subject might think that orange and white makes yellow aswell.
This is where the stretch comes in, Ishmael wants to recreate that innocence like we see in Sunny at the start. That's what VFD was supposed to do, keep childlike innocence.
While you would think red would be a color associated with evil in ASOUE, but it doesn't. It mainly represents good. The uniform on the Quequeg is red. In the show, Kit wears it at the opera. In the books, the baudelaires wear it while working at the Hotel Denoument. Klaus also wears it in some early episodes.
Blue would usually be associated with childlike innocence, but in ASOUE it's usually the loss of childlike innocence. Beatrice wears it when she throws the dart that kills Olaf's father. Klaus wears it when they steal a boat, get arrested, in the movie, and all illustrations. Sunny also wears it in later seasons, showing how she is no longer innocent. It is also the color of the sugar bowl.
Green is a neutral color. The hypnotized mill workers wear it. In the show, the baudelaires wear it when they spy on bad people. Olaf wears it in the song "Not how the story goes".
Black and white funnily enough, aren't black and white. They're blurred, both bad and good characters wearing it.
But hey– that's just my two cents!!
(If you guys wanna send me theories to talk about, send me them!)
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ven10 · 1 month
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One of the Quagmire triplets canonically plays the violin! If it was Isadora or Duncan then Nero’s “concerts” would have been so much worse for them….😀
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ALSO!!! Quigley plays the ACCORDION!!! 🪗 I’m saying it’s Quigley who plays it bc in TSS he mentions reading a book by L.Snicket on how to play the accordion!
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(Also there’s some pretty cool foreshadowing of ‘The Carnivorous Carnival’ with there being a miniature circus tent under the table in their bedroom!!! 🎪)
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unfortunatetheorist · 4 months
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*Joint Theory 5 - @unfortunatetheorist & @snicketstrange*:
The End - Book Canon vs Netflix Canon
(Does Ishmael have a greater impact on our protagonists than expected?)
As much as we would have loved, or hated, to have seen the books' material 'copied and pasted' onto our screens, there are some things in the material that are simply too difficult/horrible to film, such as Dr Orwell & Sunny's 'duel', in TMM.
In this theory, @snicketstrange and I (@unfortunatetheorist) are going to be investigating differences between Book The Thirteenth, The End and Episode the... Last (26th?), The End.
The first is that:
BOOK: There is some narration from Lemony.
NETFLIX: There is absolutely NO input from Lemony.
This addition by Netflix removes the books' doubt of Lemony being a reliable narrator, as it shows the Baudelaires' direct experience.
Book Lemony knew what had happened there and the consequences of it - Lemony knew Kit had died when he wrote TE. But Netflix Lemony only discovered this after he met with Beatrice Baudelaire II. This is an important chronological difference: when Beatrice II started looking for Lemony it was around the time he was yet to publish the TWW book, and that is evidenced by the fact that Beatrice Jr did not identify the paperweight in the shape of leeches despite her having already read some of Lemony's books according to her words.
The Netflix show's writer(s) probably chose this to deal with TSS's secret letter. The screenwriter(s) interpreted the letter to mean that Lemony did NOT know that Kit was dead.
Meaning:
BOOK: Lemony knows Kit is dead during the writing of TE.
NETFLIX: Lemony does NOT know Kit is dead until he meets Beatrice II.
Also, this notable curiosity:
BOOK: Every single islander is NAMED.
NETFLIX: Only a few of the islanders are named, such as Miranda, Friday and Alonso.
This could be due to the fact that in the books, the Baudelaires are implicitly, but still evidently, Jewish. In the Netflix series, they probably saw that as some sort of risk of anti-semitism (i.e. Jewish persecution) and so had to remove all possible traces, e.g. Rabbi Bligh, to ensure the show still aired.
Another:
BOOK: Ishmael was chemistry teacher at Prufrock.
NETFLIX: Ishmael was the principal of Prufrock.
This is quite considerable, especially linking to ATWQ and Cleo's love and talent for chemistry - he could('ve) be(en) a chemistry teacher with the name Ishmael N Knight, as a family member of Cleo and Ingrid and... Cleo's other somehow-forgotten parent. Also, the fact that in the series, Ishmael started V.F.D. - this means that Netflix's Baudelaires had it wrong the whole time, but they only learnt when he mentioned his story: in the Netflix series, the root cause of the Baudelaires' trouble was actually Ishmael.
If he didn't start V.F.D. nothing would've happened...
Now we come to what is, arguably, the most important difference of all:
BOOK: There is a mutiny/schism between the islanders, because the islanders do things in secret, such as Professor Fletcher teaching islanders how to read, and Madame Nordoff learning how to yodel.
NETFLIX: There is NO mutiny.
The mutiny was probably left out of the Netflix series due to the budget for showtime and money - it was too much to carry out.
However, within this difference, there are other differences, such as:
BOOK: The Baudelaires [temporarily] get kicked out from the island, before Finn and Erewhon bring them some mild onion soup.
NETFLIX: Nothing happens to the Baudelaires.
There's a lot to unpick in TE, even for Snicket-ologists like us; it can get really trivial, especially with lines like Olaf's "You don't know anything".
As the 'poet' Emma Montana McElroy said:
"That's the end of that".
¬ Th3r3534rch1ngr4ph & @snicketstrange,
Unfortunate Theorists/Snicketologists
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fifireadingcorner · 1 year
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I feel like if we could pick out a candidate for the Kind Editor from the characters of All The Wrong Questions, it should be the Bellerophon brothers. After all, it is canon that atwq is a series of accounts that Lemony sent to them.
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Why Is This Night Different from All Other Nights?, Front Page/Chapter Thirteen
They have been trusted by Lemony to keep important documents safe even before then, as with the papers in Colonel Collophon’s room in When Did You See Her Last?, and swapping out the books in the library in Shouldn’t You Be in School?
Another thing is that Lemony is also known to send his editor(s) through wild goose chases to find his work on the Baudelaires in various different locations, something which is normally not on an editor’s work requirements (unless of course, they’re a VFD associate or smth). Pip and Squeak, of course, are taxi drivers, and with them being the only source of public transport in the town since a young age, l could imagine that those skills could be put to good use in retrieving things in unconventional places.
TLDR: Pip and Squeak are two sub-(sub?) librarians who love to read, and also has the means of travelling while being trustworthy of holding confidential information, as well as a history of helping Lemony Snicket with such tasks, thus making them likely to be the Kind Editor if we were to refer to the characters of All The Wrong Questions.
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sherlock-is-ace · 12 days
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in theory, i know that asoiaf stands for a song of ice an fire but i'll never stop going "a series of infortunate... no, that's not it" every single fucking time
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dumbfilmschoolkid · 1 year
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lemony snicket unreliably narrating count olaf as disgusting 🤝 ted mosby unreliably narrating barney stinson as disgusting. both disgustings are neil patrick harris. discuss
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Round 1: Left Side - Sheldon Cooper (Big Bang Theory) vs. Sunny Baudelaire (A Series of Unfortunate Events)
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snicketstrange · 8 months
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Sunny's Age and Lemony's Lies: An Investigation into the Great Hiatus
So, more and more my theory of the Great Hiatus seems to make more sense. Recalling, I defend the idea that the Masked Ball where Lemony was arrested happened many years after the main events described in TE. The Ball happened between the publication of the book TWW and TMM in the asoue universe. An important concept is that the books were originally published over many years.
Although TBB began to be written during the main events of asoue, TBB and TRR were only published at least 2 years after the main events described in asoue. TWW was published sometime shortly after TRR. But TMM was published many years after the publication of TWW. These years of hiatus, is what I call the Great Hiatus. Some events in the asoue universe that happened during the Great Hiatus were the Masked Ball, one of Lemony's false deaths, one of Lemony's escapes abroad, the closing of Prufrock-Prep, and evidently the sending of the original TMM to the editor.During the Masked Ball, Lemony tried to tell a supposed Beatrice something about Count Olaf.
According to this chronology, the only thing that would be relevant for a supposed Beatrice to know was the fact that "Count Olaf is Dead." Olaf died on a desert island. Olaf's death was not known to the general public, but it was known to Lemony, as evidently Lemony was on the island.
But the right question is: why would Lemony think it important that this information should reach a supposed Beatrice? That's because the reason that would lead a supposed Beatrice not to expose herself to the public was the fact that, in theory, Beatrice believed that as long as her death was accepted as true, at least one of her children would be kept alive by Count Olaf so he could recover the inheritance when the surviving child turned 18. If Beatrice showed herself alive, the inheritance would not be any of her children's but Beatrice's herself. So none of the children would have a reason to be kept alive by Count Olaf. Therefore she, in theory, needed to be regarded as dead. And that's why Lemony emphasizes so much that Beatrice is dead, even though he believes she may be alive. He tries not to alarm her and reinforce her pretense.
I want to make clear that all this is valid both in the case where Beatrice survived the fire and in the case where she died in the fire. Because it doesn't matter the truth, what matters is what Lemony believes to be true, and what he decides to do with his beliefs: reveal them or distort them for a greater good he believes to be a greater good. Lemony believes that lying is sometimes good and necessary. Even if he were right to say that Beatrice was dead, when he wrote that, he believed she was alive. So, he lied when he said she was dead. And all this can be seen by analyzing Sunny's age.
How old was Sunny when she arrived on the island? I can say more than 1 year, because of her behavior and the events mentioned in the story. Lemony claims he spent 14 years trying to talk about Count Olaf with Beatrice. But we have a limit for this subject to be relevant. When Sunny turned 18, if she was still in Olaf's clutches, he would find a way to cash the money and kill Sunny afterward. So, it wouldn't make sense for Beatrice to hide from Olaf anymore. If after discovering Olaf was dead, Lemony still tried to pass this information on to Beatrice, it's because he believed Beatrice believed Olaf had killed Klaus and Violet and preserved Sunny to cash the money. (It is interesting that Olaf tried to do exactly that at the end of TCC). Considering that Sunny spent 1 year on the island and Lemony didn't get there during that time, we can conclude that Sunny was at least 2 years old when she left the island, with the most likely being that she was 3 or 4 years old when she left the island. If Lemony got to the island during the year that followed and then found out that Olaf was dead (and also found the Baudelaires' notes), we can conclude that he spent the next 14 years trying to pass this information on to Beatrice, according to his own words, until the day of the Masked Ball.
This means that in the meantime he published 3 books, purposefully lying to the general public by saying that Beatrice was dead, when he believed she was alive.
That's why he couldn't complete the sentence for the general public. "Count Olaf is dead" would reveal that he believed Beatrice was alive.
It is interesting to note however, that evidence points to Beatrice in fact dying in her house fire, and that the woman Lemony thought was Beatrice was actually an imposter. Apparently that's what R meant to Lemony in the letter recorded in LSTUA chapter 2. "That girl was flammable." "Analyze these photos." "Impostors nearby in disguise". "Beatrice is far from reclaiming lost property." These hidden messages seem to be trying to tell Lemony, "Beatrice really is dead." And R only had to pass this message on to Lemony because he believed Beatrice was alive. This belief of Lemony's also explains why he was so alarmed when studying the city's underground, because he investigated possible survivors of fires hidden in fountains.
This deepens our understanding of the concept of unreliable narrators. Lemony Snicket becomes one of the most unique examples I've come across. He embodies the following notion: "One can tell an untruth without lying, simply by being mistaken. And one can tell the truth while lying, also by being mistaken." This intricate interplay of perceptions and realities adds another layer of complexity and intrigue to the narrative.
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mr-mentally-ill · 9 months
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Is Mr Poe an ex vfd volunteer?
We know that the baudelaire parents threw parties with very specific friend(s), Poe being one of them. All other friend(s) of the baudelaire parents are implied/stated to be ex/current vfd volunteers. Why would they be friend with just a random banker?
Adding on to this, Poe is always there when misfortune falls onto the baudelaire children. As if his presence there causes it. What if it actually did?
Think about it, what startles the baudelaires that leads to Dewey Denoument's death? Poe. Who gets Jacques Snicket arrested and killed? Poe. He is always there.
Who gets the news first? Poe. Who tells the baudelaires about the fire? Poe.
Adding on to @femmefatalegoth Poe is a villain theory, if he wasn't an ex-volunteer, why else would he insist on never listening to the baudelaires? He only listens when indisputable evidence is shown.
Mr Poe gets treated horribly by Olaf when they 'meet', yet he speaks of the count kindly while talking to the children.
If he was an ex-volunteer– he must've left vfd. Why, you may ask, would he have a reason to leave vfd as a volunteer? Easy.
His children. To protect them from vfd recruitment.
Also, what reason would he have to be at the Vile Village? He says he's "running with this crowd!" A vague answer. Likewise, he's familiar with the rules of the VFD village— an old vfd station.
This all makes sense if Poe is an ex-volunteer. Why he knows so much about the baudelaires personal lives? He knew their parents very personally.
A cause for his cough? One theory from popsugar.com suggests it could be from fires he might've helped set. Another personal theory of mine is that it could be to do with the medusiod mycelium. We know it makes you cough a lot as by what happens to Sunny when she ingests it.
Could a younger vfd volunteer Poe be on a mission when he was exposed to the medusiod?
In both the book and the show, one of the lines in "The End" is "at this time Mr. Poe was better known as his stage name" suggesting that he was an actor at some point. Acting is a profession that a lot of vfd volunteer take on.
It is also stated that the baudelaire(s) smell smoke around figuratively (and sometimes literally).
We know that sometimes ex-volunteers that join the 'evil' side of the schism will put on a dumb act as to not be caught. Could this be why Poe is always so stupid?
Anyways.. thats just my two cents!
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ven10 · 19 days
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Is one of the Quagmire triplets on the COVER of ‘The Austere Academy’???
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There is a dark haired child next to Carmelita on the cover… their hairstyle looks similar to that of the illustration of the Isadora and Duncan Quagmire who we all know and love.
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This evidence of course brings forth the million sapphire question: “Is miserable spaghetti child a Quagmire triplet?” (Has there been another illustration of a [mostly] well-liked asoue character this entire time?? +a colourised one nonetheless!!)
It would make sense for a character shown on the cover to be plot-relevant rather than merely a nondescript background character… 🤔
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unfortunatetheorist · 5 months
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Is Lemony's Kind Editor in the Netflix series?
Throughout the Netflix series, Lemony has used one of his infamous literary devices which I did not notice until rewatching it for the billionth time, when I was working on The Complete Works of Contradictory Logic in ASOUE. More on that to come.
Lemony uses a rather basic device which, I believe, can actually have an ENTIRELY radical new view on the show: Lemony speaks to the camera in the second person.
This just means he uses the pronouns 'you' and 'your', etc, when talking directly to camera.
e.g. TMM: "You could pretend the Duchess of Winnipeg had arrived, and had come to throw the Baudelaires a pony party at her chateau."
However, the 'you' could refer to Lemony's Unnamed Kind Editor. There are some points which back this up:
The Kind Editor is someone who does not know the story of the Baudelaires, they only know Lemony. This is why Lemony is the one to tell them the story of ASOUE.
The Kind Editor is NOT a member of V.F.D. This is why Lemony has to explain [either himself or via other characters] different V.F.D-related things that a member would've already known.
This logic can lead to the following:
Lemony is talking to his Kind Editor, who is filming VIDEO evidence to be used in court when Lemony clears his name and the names of the Baudelaires.
This means that the characters do not physically appear in ASOUE, but rather Lemony just imagines them saying the same words before actually saying them himself. This carries on from the idea (@snicketstrange) that Lemony used the Baudelaires' notes from An Incomplete History (series) or A Series of Unfortunate Events (book canon).
In TCC, the Baudelaires discover the SAME THING filmed by the SAME PERSON - but for ATWQ. Hence the reference to 'Stain'd-by-the-Sea'...
So what's the point?
THEORY: Lemony is using typewritten and video evidence, as filmed by his Kind Editor, in order to clear the names of all 4 people; the Baudelaires and himself.
But who is this mysterious Kind Editor? Many have suggested it to be Moxie Mallahan, as she was only friends with Lemony and no-one else from V.F.D.
However, given the circumstances described, I now present an alternative solution: Beatrice Baudelaire II.
In TBL, Beatrice II is 10 years old, capable of handling a camera. It provides an uncle-niece bonding opportunity for Lemony, and Beatrice gets to know the story of her adoptive parents (from her biological uncle).
Lemony is Beatrice's only hope of finding the Baudelaires, and Beatrice is Lemony's only hope of clearing the Baudelaires' names, as Lemony knows 100% that Beatrice is not an enemy or a spy of any kind.
¬ Th3r3534rch1ngr4ph, Unfortunate Theorist/Snicketologist
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somewhat-bored · 1 year
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After the events of atwq, Ellington vowed to ruin Lemony’s life through destroying the only thing he deemed incorruptible, untainted by the treachery surrounding every aspect of his life, the only thing that made him happy:
Rootbeer floats.
She put an absurd amount of effort into this.  The diner Lemony goes to solely for the rootbeer?  She shut it down after anonymously reporting several health code violations.  Every rootbeer bottle Lemony gets from the store?  Thoroughly shaken by Ellington.  His ice cream?  She takes it out of the freezer and lets it melt, or if she’s feeling particularly evil she eats all of it and sticks it back into the fridge.
Lemony thinks that this is the behavior of other volunteers, ones who have no regard for the possessions of others.  It’s not until the Baudelaire mansion burns to the ground that Ellington reveals herself.
“Snicket.”
“Feint.”
“Your suffering brings me great joy.”
“You... you killed Beatrice?  You left their home in ashes just to get back at me.”
“What?  No, who are you even talking about?  I’ve been preventing you from having decent rootbeer floats for the past fifteen years.”
“...”
“If I was going to kill someone, it would be you.”
“My rootbeer... how could you?!”
“You don’t deserve rootbeer!”
“Ellington, that’s like saying you don’t deserve coffee!”
They proceed to have one of the most petty arguments recorded in history.
“And you know what?!  Your sister’s been helping me get my revenge the whole time!”
“Just because I killed your father?!  Does that warrant such atrocities?!  What did my rootbeer ever do to you?!”
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@unfortunatetheorist to your question for the 'ask blog' ask game:
Why did the Netflix series decide to swap Esmé and Georgina's hair colours from the book canon (and what, if any, is the significance behind this decision)?
Personally, I think they went for acting abilities over appearances for the roles; no real significance to it. But to play into the argument of that there is logic to the hair color swap:
Madame Lulu said that Esme is not a real blonde, which could mean Esme in-universe has natural dark hair (I thought it feels of a jab/insult than legit claim, but...)
Regarding Georgina, IIRC Klaus after he said his dad didn't trust optimists or optometrists, Georgina goes into a little 'I wonder' talk about the person that is clearly about herself, and mentions plastic surgery to assume a new identity. It's possible Georgina post plastic surgery she either dyed her natural blonde hair as part of her new identity, or she was a bottle blonde who stopped dying her hair and went back to her natural dark hair color.
Regarding your question for the ask game itself...
Netflix!Esme:
"Am I a bottled blonde? Darling, I swear to you that this is my natural hair color. If I were ever to dye my hair a different color, know that I would do so when it's in. And currently, a dye-job is out."
"It's a shame that some people choose to ignore it."
Netflix!Georgina:
"You think that I-oh, that's the funniest thing I ever heard!"
"I assure you that I don't dye my hair, just like how I don't hypnotize anyone to get the best dates possible for balls and parties."
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What the hell happened to that volcano in the timeline where kusuo died?
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