New Teen Titans (1984) #4 | Original Meme
[ID: A comic with two panels. In panel one, an angry figure points at distant houses and stick figures on fire. The figure has orange hair and green eyes (representing Lilith) and says, "She commited genocide." In panel two is an angry figure with long black hair, a yellow headpiece, and yellow earrings (representing Arella). She holds demon!Raven (drawn with red skin, four yellow eyes, long black hair, and a blue cloak). Arella shouts, "She was ovulating!!?" Demon!Raven has her face in her hands. End ID.]
generic version (for demon raven apologism) under the cut.
[ID: A comic with two panels. In panel one, an angry figure points at distant houses and stick figures on fire. They say, "She commited genocide." In panel two is an angry figure holding demon!Raven (drawn with red skin, four yellow eyes, long black hair, and a blue cloak). This figure shouts, "She was ovulating!!?" Demon!Raven has her face in her hands. End ID.]
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(CW: canon typical discussions of sexual assault)
Really niche fandom pet peeve but I hate when I see something that acts like the only thing that was wrong with what happened between Trigon and Arella was rape by deception. That did happen, and that on its own would be very bad (I'm absolutely in no way trying to say that that would be okay or anything but rape), but idk where the perception that he stopped assaulting her once he revealed his demon form comes from because that's very much not what happened.
This is Arella's account of what happened to her in her own words, and it seems pretty clear that Trigon kept her longer after she saw his true form. It's not hard to fill in the gaps.
This isn't even a misconception that can be blamed on non comic media. Obviously none of this was ever discussed in either of the CN cartoons, but it was in the DCAMU, and if anything it has more explicit confirmation than the NTT panels.
(The actual scene with the reveal is about 53 seconds in)
I'd guess where the misconception comes from is future retellings of Raven's origin that were condensed to be only a few panels. It doesn't matter all that much at the end of the day, but it just bothers me a little because it's not what happened.
I think it's also a little out of character for Trigon; as the sum of all of Azarath's evil, he's almost nothing but violence. I think that act being so violent is what made Arella find so much solace in Azar's teachings, and Raven hearing this story from her mother as her first exposure to anything related to sexuality made her internalize that her sexual desire is something dangerous and violent that she needs to keep tightly under control. The intended story fits the overall themes with Trigon and Arella better than the misrepresented version.
Arella as a character is so often misrepresented. DC doesn't seem very interested in that part of Raven's backstory at the moment, but I think the right writer could write a great story with her with a more modern tone if given the chance.
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Top five parent supporting characters in comics?
okeydokey top 5 parent supporting characters. I will be grouping parents who are mom and dad together :P
Berto and Bianca Reyes - they are the top comic parents of all time IMO. They just work very well with Jaime's story and we get to see them supporting him and I love them.
Jonathan and Martha Kent - I love that we can see superman come to his parents when he's an adult for comfort and advice, I think it's something we don't see a ton in fiction!
Arella - she's so tragic and works very well with raven's character. She makes me so emo! She gave up her happiness for Raven! She jumped into the Netherverse to fight endlessly against the man who tormented her to save her daughter! And then the complete lack of communication after Terror of Trigon which I think works very well for their characters even though it was not nice to Raven :P
Hippolyte - another mom who makes me emo! Started feeling things about her way back in Perez's run when we see her questioning the gods when Zeus turns his eye on Diana (sadly then this is like. not made into anything). And then we definitley have the "i'll do anything for my daughter even if it screws over other people". And I love the idea behind her and Diana's conflict in Jimenez's run (sadly lots of it was built off very mid JSA comics that do not adequately explain why Hippolyte has such a connection to JSA)
Rudy and Mary West - OK look are they good parents? No. Do they fill supporting character roles amazingly in Messner-Loebs Flash? yes :P To quote Rudy "by pretending to be dead, so taht he can talk to me 'psychically i've corrupted my son, made him betray his beliefs and turned him into a cheap pitchman. somehow i thought this would be more fun" (link) anyway very fun to read about!
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Raven Analysis (Part 2)
Note: Link to my previous post
Moving on, we see Azar train young Raven to submerge her emotions, so much so she is barely allowed to even see and develop a relationship with her mother, despite her mother wanting to be there. Here is where a lot of the tragedy about Raven's character comes in for me.
Understandably, Azarathians are trying to save the Earth and take responsibility for Raven without killing her...but uhh...they are. They've been killing her since birth. In order to save the lives of others, Raven has been deprived in so many ways of a life of her own.
Her biological mother may as well be a stranger. The closest thing she has to a parent besides Arella is a goddess who has taught her to not experience or feel anything, but INSTEAD, take OTHER PEOPLE'S BURDENS ON AS HER OWN AND HEAL THEM WHILE NEVER BEING AFFORDED THE SAME GRACE.
Again, the question is raised, should Raven live like this? Should she feel guilt over what she is naturally and is this truly the right way to nurture her power if we accept that she's capable of good? We know that Raven is a hero, but is her transformation into becoming a hero a good one? Are the Azarathians truly acting noble here in essentially forcing and gradually killing the life of a child who didn't ask to be here, whose mother didn't ask to be saved? Raven is literally a sacrificial lamb!
So imma speed things up to get to the really good stuff. Azar passes her teaching duties to Arella and to her credit, tells Arella not to fear or shun Raven. But uh...Arella does fear her at times. And they still have a shitty ass practically nonexistent relationship..again, that will impact Raven greatly.
Thankfully, Arella's motherly instinct and understanding shows up when Raven starts to have nightmares of Trigon (who she hasn't met yet aside from when he saved her as an infant). The time for truth has arrived...and lemme tell you SO MUCH IS ANSWERED
These people, these humans who have deprived Raven of knowing what life means, made her into a self-sacrificing being, burdened her with so much pain and disallowed her from releasing it...are the same ones responsible for her and her father's creation.
Their selfishness, cowardice, lack of accountability in facing THEIR OWN EVIL led to the growth and birth of a greater, stronger one. Look at Azar's own words when she is in Raven: "I expunged the darkness in their souls, KNOWING ALL TOO WELL THAT ALL EVIL FINDS ITS WAY TO YOU "
Azar knew. They knew. And they were content in having their own peaceful realm knowing they set the path for an unfathomable evil to form and wreak havoc. It's sick. And it shows that not only is Raven's struggle a theme of good vs evil...it is also a struggle of humanity vsaccountability. She is burdened by the evils of demons AND humans alike. The fear that humans have for her is a projection of the fear they have for themselves, the fear we have for ourselves of what we're capable of accomplishing at our most depraved states.
The hatred we have towards demons/satanic beings...which on a lower level are the monstrous parts of ourselves we don't want to face or accept. Not all of us of course, I'm just speaking generally. NE Ways tho, Raven, someone who didn't HAVE TO BE here, now has to deal with all of this because humans say so. Should she feel guilty? Should she feel responsible for them? Consider Trigon. He's as evil as evil gets...we all know this. He's destroyed universes upon universes with no remorse, just because he felt like it.
But is he 'wrong' to do that? The demon has been alive for a long enough time to know how he originated. To know WHO is responsible for his creation. When he finally meets Raven, he tells her straight up what she has always partly felt no matter how hard she tried to control it, she knows that they hated her.
Not all Azarathians, again, but she knows that many did. That many feared her. And she's hated them in return...taking her life away from her and having the audacity to hate her all the same while, THEORETICALLY, she shouldn't even pity them. And Trigon has chosen not to. He has chosen to make the most of what nature gave to him....one could say that he doesn't just represent evil, but also KARMA.
But again...we have the question of choice. CHOICE. Trigon is the sum of all great evils, but now we know, that both his and Raven's evil has a very human side to it. It would be incredibly hard, draining to do it no doubt, but this suggests that Trigon COULD have chosen to face that evil, and in facing it, decided to do better, to be better, to transform himself and put SOME of his great, dark powers to good use. He didn't. But you know who can? You know who decides to, and thus makes her so greatly heroic? Raven.
Despite proclaiming herself Trigon's daughter, manifesting that great power, knowing what she is capable of and knowing she is carrying the burden of humanity's sins, she constantly makes the choice to fight for them.
She sees the true potential in humanity, against all odds, to be great, to be FORGIVEN, to be worthy of her sacrifices. No doubt she's been heavily influenced by Azarathians to hold humans on a pedestal, and it would take years and years to undo that training, but she still has a choice to make in all of this on whether she wants to CONTINUE fighting for humans. She does, and this origin shows how noble of a being she is to do that in spite of all she's faced and the limited 'life' she lives as a consequence.
Kind of random, and no disrespect to Christians, but I find Raven to be an Anti-Christ while Christ-like at the same time...and I wonder if Marv did that intentionally. She's the daughter of a Satan-like who is meant to wreak evil on the universe (obviously Anti-Christlike). But, like Jesus, feels the burden of humanity's sins, chooses to continue carrying the guilt and weight of it despite having the option not to, and ends up sacrificing herself (both figuratively and literally) for their sins. Just a cool connection I made.
So, in conclusion, Raven is a symbol not just for darkness and destruction, but also hope, fighting against all odds, transformation, and redemption. Her origin and the way it sets up the complexity of her character is magnificent, much respect to Marv. I've said it over and over and I'll say it again, I wish more writers understood this about her character and understood how many different ways she can developed to reach her full potential, not just as a literal powerhouse, but a figurative one too. I don't think there is any other comic character, who could redefine the meaning of evil and reshape or...fuck that, create a new multiverse with this knowledge the way she can. There's a world of stories to be told about her realizing her ability to be heroic for countless, different kinds of beings. Anyways, that's all. If you have thoughts let me know, and once again, thanks for reading.
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