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jamieloveharris · 7 years

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& i thought changing my relationship status would be hard....

i REALLY didn’t want to have to write this. i’ve gone back & forth because part of me wants to be the bigger person and let karma do it’s just job. and other part - straight savage. as you may (or may not) know, i was supposed to get married in november. if you’re hoping this is the story of that, go ahead and click that X bc it’s not. howeverrrrr....when i got engaged, i moved pretty fast and went ahead and booked whatever i could, one of those being a photographer. this particular photographer i had obsessed over for years. literally my fam got some pics made probably 8 or so years ago and he was fairly new and i remember calling him to get pricing details. so since then, i’ve followed his work on social media etc and he’s crazy talented. so when i reached out and he was available, i was ecstatic. he’s pricey but if you know me, i love pictures and i was willing to splurge on a good photographer. everyone’s advise was always, “its all you’ll have left of the day, splurge.” anyhow, we emailed back and forth about pricing, packages, etc & spoke on the phone once, and he told me that he was doing things a little different now due to taking a full time job and trying to balance work/family life. you see, his wife is a photographer as well and equally as amazing and instead of shooting separately, they started to shoot together (if you choose 2 shooters) so they wouldn’t always be away from each other during the busy season of photography, allowing them to “drop their prices” some (LOL). so, long story short I said lets do it, and sent him the deposit. the schedule is as follows:

25% immediate deposit ($1,050)

25% 60 days before wedding date ($1,050)

50% remainder due 2 weeks before wedding ($2,100)

on january 20, what we agreed to was a total of $4,200 ($4,000 wedding package) + $200 (extra one hour if needed). so, I sent him $1,050 which is 25% of the total amount via paypal. the next payment wasnt “due” until technically september 18 - 60 days prior to the wedding which he stated in an email to me as well. i wanted to go ahead and try to get ahead so on March 17, I emailed him asking if it was okay to go ahead and send him more money (that wasn’t “due” until 9/18) and he was very eager to say “Well sure. You can send me as much as you want as often as you want :) “ Yeah, i bet so.

DISCLAIMER: in his defense, it DOES say in the contract I signed that in the event the client cancels for reasons out of the control of the photographer before completion of services, photographer retains all funds collected to date” I tell you this because I want to be completely transparent with all relevant details since this is basically a story of morality, and not money.

stay with me. SO, unfortunately I called off the wedding at the beginning of april. imaginably so, it’s a very emotionally draining situation and at that point, I knew I had already lost a lot of money (on venue, catering, band, dress, etc) so i was just trying to recoup anything that I could. it’s just money but at the same time, ya girl isn’t rich so being able to get anything back I could would be more than helpful. I had paid extra towards my venue as well and when I reached out to her (s/o to Bonnie - you’re the best), she immediately went out of her way to go to the bank and deposit the money back that wasn’t owed yet, but i had chosen to pay before it was due. my caterer also refunded what he could, minus the required deposit and wrote me truly the sweetest email saying he was praying for me and my situation and would be happy to refund fully if he rebooked the date. ya know, being a good person and doing what’s “right,” in my unprofessional opinion. let’s get to the good stuff...okay so, I had chosen on my own free will to send said photographer (cough cough ROB INGRAM cough cough) an extra $1,000 on March 17 via paypal. keep in mind, it wasn’t due until september and he wasn’t using that money for anything relative to my wedding. afterall, we were only using him for the wedding - no engagement or bridal pictures or anything. that was 2 weeks before I called off the wedding.

April 1, i emailed him asking protocol on if he would refund any payment that was made outside of the non-refundable deposit. I was aware i wouldn’t get the original $1,050 back and that’s fair business. to be honest, i didn’t read the fine print on the contract because who thinks you’ll need to cancel ya know? not me. {{ LESSON LEARNED }}. and this is where sh!t hit the fan. it’s LONG, but if you’re still reading you’ll probably be intrigued to find out the rest of the story right? so for your reading pleasure, i’ll copy and paste the string of emails between Rob and I from that date forward.

i’d like to preface this with some of my thoughts. first, contractually he doesn’t owe me any of the extra $1,000 that i paid him. i get that. morally, in my opinion, he does. afterall - he has to sleep with himself at night and live knowing he essentially stole $1,000 from someone he performed ZERO services for, not even so much as meeting for a cup of coffee. i’d also like to point out the fact that it was less than 2 weeks after I sent him the $1,000 that i asked about him refunding it. my theory is that he had already spent it therefore he didn’t have it to give back.i feel like as a human being, it’s our duty to be kind, and compassionate. maybe i’m crazy but the “right” thing to do would have been to do exactly what Bonnie did - give it back. it’s not yours. you did nothing for me, rob, except make me completely devalue you as a professional and as a person in general. again - I GET IT - by contract, he didnt have to give it back. but as a person, it would have been the right thing to do. it’s hard not for me to go postal up in this blog about it, but i think i’ll let his words speak for themselves. he demoralized woman, condescended me as a person, and said very offensive things about my friends whom he does not know. he didn’t want to add salt to the wound (after he took him over a week to respond btw - inclusive of a text and follow up email from me) but he would be glad to credit at least part of the payment “for when I do get married.” ya know what Rob? F OFF. Do you think that’s what i’m thinking about right now? do you think 1. I would ever use you as a photographer IF i do get married one day? and 2. do you think i’m studying my next wedding right now? NO. BYE. and that’s just the tip of the iceberg my friends. in the end, HE SUGGESTED that he would pay me on the 1st of the month $100/month for 5 months starting in May to prove his integrity (HA HA HA HA) because that’s all he could afford to do regardless of if he rebooked that date or not. Fair enough, and I thanked him for that gesture. I had to follow up with him, which is extremely awkward by the way, asking about the payment. truthfully, it’s not even about the money at this point but about doing what you say you’re going to do. he FINALLY paid my my first payment on May 19th (18 days after promised date). he lied saying it was “set to transfer” on the 15th of May, which i actually don’t think is even a real possibility with paypal after talking to other professional business owners who use Paypal as their method of payment, but that’s neither here nor there at this point. In June, i received $100 on June 16. After that, NADA, ZERO, ZILCH. Let me repeat - it’s not about the money at this point. it’s about doing the right thing. I’ve sent several emails to him asking to simply let me know if he doesn’t plan to fulfill his promise to let me know. again, NO RESPONSE. i swear i’ll quit rambling but my final thought is this....if you want to maintain your integrity that you swore you have, then do what you say you’re gonna do. Simple as that. and if you don’t plan to do said thing, have the decency to at least let that person know. if you plan to keep reading, start at the bottom of the email chain below and read up. PLEASE READ HIS LONG EMAIL CAREFULLY. I cannot stress enough how unprofessional, rude, demeaning, and downright ugly it was. I’ve never been more turned off from something in my life. ENJOY!!! :)

On Sept 18, 2017, at 12:44 PM, Jamie Harris <[email protected]> wrote:

Hi Rob, I didn't hear back from you so I'm going to assume at this point I won't be receiving the additional $300 that you offered and agreed upon?

"But beginning in May, I will refund you (thru PayPal) $100/month for 5 months regardless of whether or not we rebook for a total of $500. And, in the event that we do book the date, I will refund the remainder of the $1000. I know a little at a time doesn't have the same effect as a lump sum, but it's the best I can do right now."

Thanks,

Jamie

On Jul 27, 2017, at 8:42 AM, Jamie Harris <[email protected]> wrote:

Hey rob, just wanted to check in with you regarding July payment.

Thanks

Jamie

From: Rob & Wynter <[email protected]> Date: May 18, 2017 at 7:47:03 AM CDT To: Jamie Harris <[email protected]> Subject: Re: Contract

Jamie,

That transfer will be authorized tomorrow morning. I don't typically use the account tied to the PayPal so I had to transfer the money to the funding account yesterday. I wasn't aware that the account didn't have money in it when it was set to transfer. Never intended not to do what I said I would do.

Sent from Rob Ingram's iPhone

On May 18, 2017, at 07:41, Jamie Harris <[email protected]> wrote:

Hey Rob, it's the 18th now and I have not received anything via PayPal. I just kindly ask that if I will not be receiving what you offered to me, please let me know so I am aware.

Thanks,

Jamie Sent from my iPhone

On May 10, 2017, at 5:02 PM, Rob & Wynter <[email protected]> wrote:

It's set to transfer on the 15th Sent from Rob Ingram's iPhone

On May 10, 2017, at 16:54, Jamie Harris <[email protected]> wrote:

Hey Rob,

Just wanted to follow up regarding your last email.

Thanks,

Jamie

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 18, 2017, at 4:11 PM, RobWynter Ingram <[email protected]> wrote:

Jamie,

I’ll start by saying that the fact that you concluded this message with “I don’t expect a response, to be honest…” is confirmation that you don’t know me very well. But, I guess you can only derive your opinion from personal experience. My delay in responding to your cancellation email (as I have already told you) was because I wanted to see if I could fill your date with 2 other inquiries that we had for 11/18 and hopefully be able to refund some of your money. I apologize that, in the middle of life and a busy wedding season, I didn’t respond sooner. I know this is not an easy time for you and adding financial strain only adds insult to injury. It was never my intention for the end-result of all this be one that has left such a bad taste in your mouth.

I’ll also say, before I address your message, that of the 30+ brides that we work with every year, not one would make general comments about my “heart” or my approach consistent with what I just read from you. In fact, “heartless” is so far from who I am and who we are. But, rather than try to convince you of that, I will (try) to remove emotion from it and simply respond with facts. I absolutely HATE the fact that your opinion of me is now so skewed from the reality of who I am that you feel the need to say some of the things you have, but I guess what’s done is done, and all we can do now is continue to do the things that made you want to hire us in the first place, which is be the best wedding photographers we can be and provide brides with beautiful wedding images.

To begin, let me confidently say this. I will refund the $1000 if I book the date. I have more integrity than you might think, and I will be 100% honest with you if we rebook and will refund your money. But so far, I have had zero inquiries since you cancelled. I had 2 others within a week of you booking. And both could not move their dates. You are right, it’s possible we will rebook, but speculating that is a moot point, and as of now, we will make at least $2000 less than expected right before Christmas.

I have been doing this for 10 years, Jamie. Shooting weddings is a volatile thing and a huge risk for anyone who makes this their profession. As weddings are concerned, we basically stake our entire income on the promise of two people who are currently very happy, but have no idea of what lies ahead. In the entire time I have done this, previous to 2016, I have had only ONE wedding cancellation. Then, in 2016, we had 3 cancellations, all of which did not result in rebooking the date, costing our business over $15,000 in income. Now, for 2017, we have had 2 weddings that did not work out after booking, resulting in another $5400 in income loss.

As far as your comment about comparing what $1000 means to us vs. yourself. Let me ask you….and it’s imperative that I be a little more personal here than I typically have to be with clients because perspective might help in our case as well…How many of your "photographer friends” that you felt the need to talk to about this, support 4 kids (not including an additional $1000/month in child support and another $1200 for health insurance) on a one-income budget? You can do the math, but in order for Wynter and I to have anything that resembles a life with our kids on the weekends, we can only feasibly take 30-35 weddings a year. Other than a VERY small amount of other photography income, WEDDING photography is our only source of income. We don’t shoot separately, because our product is now branded by what we both bring to the table on a wedding day. The process of editing hundreds of images/week and making sure that we correctly handle images that can never be replaced, is one that takes a great deal of time and care. So again, since you felt the need to bring it up, I’m betting the comparable value of $1000 to us is a little closer than you might think. Remember, image is our job, so it may be a little misleading when you simply look at our life and business with facebook or Instagram goggles. So please, if these photographer friends of yours (who obviously aren’t talented enough to garner your business) really want to talk to me about their opinion of my approach here, please tell them to call me when their husband gets off work. I’d be happy take any advice from them that will allow me to be both a business man and a bleeding heart. And feel free to forward this email to them too. This business is full of people who will try to undercut and discredit other photographers at every turn. Maybe this email will be ammo they can print, forward and use in their advantage to create an image of me that results in one less person to compete with. It’s why I have never cared much about what everyone else is doing. And frankly, the insecurity of a lot of people in this business is consistent with the ones that would so willingly be agreeable with you in this situation. But, if my guess is right, you either talked to someone who is single or someone who has another source of income in their home. But again, I’m just giving you facts and comments about financial consequence isn’t an area that anyone has ever tried to navigate with me. So, my “condescending” response about applying your payment to a future wedding is justifiably condescended now by your interpretation and the emotions behind a hurt that I ultimately did not cause, and yet currently have a $2100 deficit because of. So to clear that up, I wasn’t trying to be condescending at all, but I am pretty confident any this point that you won’t be “passing on my name” to other people in any way that would ever result in me being portrayed in a positive light. And really, the residual effect of what this has ultimately done to your image of us, is going to cost us a lot more than just the $2100 that we won’t get from you. Consider that we are two people (with financial responsibility to 4 more) getting paid basically one medial income.

Jamie, this situation doesn’t require me to pray about it. I really can’t believe that I’m even discussing money value and prayer in response to this, but you went there, so I will too. My relationship with Jesus is the most important thing in my life and spiritualizing this issue isn’t something I think is necessary. But hypothetically, had your message today said, “Hey Rob, that $1000 means a lot to me and not having it makes a significant difference in my life. As a fellow follower of Christ, I am asking you to consider our kinship in that and pray about a way to refund all or a portion of this money. This is a crappy enough time for me and I realize there may not be an immediate solution, but I would appreciate it if you would reconsider your last email”, then I wouldn’t have spent the better part of my day responding to this, I would have a better perspective on how it effects you, and would have done what was best for both of us regardless of contractual language. And maybe that should have been my first approach, but just because my business deals with people on a more “personal” level doesn’t exempt me from still being a business, so I responded as such. Typically, the clientele that we work with understands that, which is why I’ve never dealt with this. In fact, most of those relationships end extremely well and have been followed up with inquiry on whether or not they owed a cancellation fee, rather than me writing a check back to them based on a circumstance out of my control. The fact that I never uphold my clients to the "additional 25% cancellation fee of entire contract" outlined in their contract may produce a less “heartless” opinion from others who have been in your situation.

This is the exact reason why Wynter and I charge a little more than most photographers. There are plenty of “wedding photographers” who have a camera and can produce a good image for $2500-3000. If I expounded on the reality of their inadvertent devaluing of our industry, I would spend the next half of the day typing, so I will spare you. BUT…our whole approach has always been based on working with an upper-tier bride who typically isn’t greatly affected by the loss of $1000. In fact, in your situation, I was more inclined to think money wasn’t an issue for you at all. You didn’t try to talk me down on price, you were in a hurry to get your deposit to me, and you sent the extra $1000 even after I told you that it wasn’t yet due. And up until you cancelled your wedding, you were very consistent with some of the best brides that we have ever had from a payment and accountability standpoint. So, my response was derived from quantifying and qualifying you with our other brides. I apologize that I responded with an incorrect assumption. You can't expect me to know the reality of your personal situation, and the email you sent to me this morning basically holds me responsible to know that.

My “truly shocking” response, as you called it IS exactly what you described it: a matter of money. I unapologetically agree with you there. And I’m not quite sure why it being a “matter of money” and me “having a heart to do what I can to help someone” can’t coexist. And if really was a ONLY “matter of money” I would be the type of heartless person that would seek all compensation of what was agreed to in the contract, which would be an additional $1000.

So, to be clear, I am not the jerk that my response in this email confirms that I can be. But, when I receive an email that is obviously based on frustration and dehumanizing me, I am not going to read it without at least attempting to establish a little bit of perspective-based defense. You ask how I can sleep at night. My sleep has never been effected because I've always done what I said I would do and I've never received such a hostile email based in response to what someone agreed to.

All of that being said, I will do this…because we live on our received income rather than our completed work income, I can’t cut you a $1000 check today. But beginning in May, I will refund you (thru PayPal) $100/month for 5 months regardless of whether or not we rebook for a total of $500. And, in the event that we do book the date, I will refund the remainder of the $1000. I know a little at a time doesn't have the same effect as a lump sum, but it's the best I can do right now.

I am really sorry our relationship took this turn, Jamie. I enjoyed every moment of our first conversation and I hope one day you can see that I'm not all the things you seem to now believe. What I definitely will pray about for you is continued healing through this difficult process. From my experience, you are a really cool girl and I hate we won't be moving forward from this point on. I'll be in touch the first of May with the first partial reimbursement installment. Thanks for taking time to read this.

Rob

On Apr 18, 2017, at 10:17 AM, Jamie Harris <[email protected]> wrote:

Hey Rob/Wynter, I’ve had some time to think about this situation and it’s just been on my heart to respond. I understand what you said about the contract, but in my personal opinion something like this comes down to a matter of character and just simply doing what’s right and being able to lay your head down at night knowing you’re living the way you’re proud of. I know that I made the choice to send you an extra $1,000 when it was not even due, and in your contract you did state what was paid was to be kept. At the same time, when I look at the big picture it honestly just doesn’t sit right with me that as a successful and respectable business owner, you are okay with keeping $2100 of someone’s money when you truly performed no act of service. We did not even meet in person and get a coffee. We simply exchanged a few emails, several of which took you more than a week to respond. If I canceled a month before my wedding, this would be a different story and completely understandable. But considering it was over 7 months out from the event, you and I both know the chances of you filling that spot are pretty high knowing how wonderful of photographers you and Wynter are, and how desired your services are as well. People plan weddings in just a few months all of the time, and I just can’t help but feel like I was truly taken advantage of, and I hate feeling that way with someone whose work I have followed since the beginning and always dreamed of having them shoot my own wedding. I would never want or expect to get the 25% deposit back. I knew going into it, that no matter what that was nonrefundable and should something happen, that was paid regardless. I just can’t get out of my head that I sent you $1,000 and you’re comfortable with keeping that knowing you didn’t provide any service to me. $1,000 is a lot of money to me, especially considering I am single and live alone and have already lost about 5x that much with all of the other things I had to cancel. Again, that was MY choice and I’m well aware of that but at some point it just comes down to doing the respectable thing. In the grand scheme of things, what is $1000 to you compared to what it is to me? Especially $1,000 that wasn’t even owed to you yet. As far as the taxes thing go, it would just show as you overpaying and would be considered a credit. It's not anything that would cause issues in the long run, so I don't find it fair to use that as an excuse.

I’m not looking for a pity party, or any kind of sympathy as I know I made the choice that I did and had to do what’s best for me and my situation and unfortunately that came at a cost. I’m just simply asking for you to reconsider your decision given the situation and circumstances. I am obviously dealing with a lot emotionally as well as financially and that’s on me and I’m dealing with it the best I can. I have several photographer friends I spoke to about the situation, as well as just everyday humans and the consensus was always the same – shock that someone who works in an industry capturing people’s happiest days could be so heartless. It just seems that you would have a little more sympathetic nature to the situation simply as a human. Someone could get engaged tomorrow, and book that date and come to you this week dying to have you. You have 7 more months for that to happen and the fact that you’re dead set on this being the final decision honestly makes me question the professionalism of your business. And to even condescendingly say that you’d give me a credit “when I get married one day” couldn’t have hurt worse. I understand you were trying to offer a “solution” so to speak, but that was the most humiliating thing that I could have read considering the last thing I’m thinking about at the moment is getting married.

I am truly just asking you to pray about, think about it, whatever your method is of coping with things is, and really consider what happened. I know “contractually” what was said and I get that as anyone would,but sometimes, things go a little deeper and you look at it as a whole and treat as others the way you’d like to be treated. I sent you an email right away, with no response, followed up with a text several days later with no response, and had to email another time before I was even given the respect of a response. At the very least, I would have expected an acknowledgment email when I first emailed you just letting me know you received it and would get back to me. I obviously had to send the same email to several people and the difference in response is truly shocking. It seems to just be a matter of money vs having a heart and doing what you can to help someone.

I don’t expect a response to be honest, but would appreciate if you would at least take the time to read this, and consider what it would mean to me and do for me. I am more than happy to recommend you to anyone I see that may be seeking photographers in the area because I do love your work as you know and would be more than willing to pass on your name, but I just can't let this sit on my hear any longer.

Thanks for your time

Jamie

On Fri, Apr 7, 2017 at 11:22 AM, Rob & Wynter <[email protected]> wrote:

Hey Jamie,

I'm sorry to just now be getting back to you. And I'm very sorry to hear that you had to call the wedding off.

Unfortunately, this is where business collides with people that I genuinely want to do what's best for, but because of the way our accounting works, it puts me in an awkward position.

In Section 3 of our contract, the agreement states that all funds collected upon cancellation are retained by the photographer and a 25% cancellation penalty is assessed. Obviously, I am not going to charge you another $1050, but the second payment, which in your contract stated that it was due BY (not ON) April 24, 2017 was voluntarily sent and thus falls under the "all funds collected" section. And because we pay taxes quarterly, those have been submitted as well.

Also, we do this because we have other inquiries and in your case (because of the popular date during football season) we turned down two other weddings because of your reservation of the date. That is why it has taken me a while to respond...I was reaching out to those two brides to see if I could salvage their business. (In which case, I could have justified refunding a portion to you). Both have booked elsewhere and quite honestly, November wedding clients are few and far between this late in the year. So, in reality, we have a $2100 deficit on our year as well and will doubtfully recoup the loss of income from Nov 18, which really is the only date anyone has asked about for Nov of this year.

I know this adds salt to an already open wound, but because of the nature of our business, we don't refund due to things out of our control. But, what I can do is give you a credit for when you do get married one day. We can at least apply 50% of the $2100 you have sent ($1050) to a future contract. I know that helps you none right now, but please know I will do what I can to make it as easy on you as possible if you would like to work with us one day.

Again, I hate having these conversations and hate what you are dealing with all of this. Please let me know if you have any further questions.

Rob

Sent from Rob Ingram's iPhone

On Apr 7, 2017, at 10:15, Jamie Harris <[email protected]> wrote:

Hey Rob, wanted to follow up with on this since I never heard back. I paid you an extra $1000 towards my balance but I've regretfully decided to call off my wedding so I believe I should receive that back since it was not due or anything until sept 18 per your email below. Please let me know what you need from me to get this refunded.

Thanks for understanding

Jamie Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 1, 2017, at 10:32 PM, Jamie Harris <[email protected]> wrote:

Hey rob, random question but I know if something happens we can't get our deposit back but do you refund any other payments made?

Thanks

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