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not-a-feron · 5 years

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Buckle up here are my thoughts on Deltarune

I’ve been seeing a lot of ppl here and videos on YouTube talking abt theories and stuff so I thought I’d make my own megapost to surmise my thoughts and my own theory on wtf is going on in this game Part of this was @brigadeinvader and me talking over discord and discussing the game, I don’t think either of us would’ve come up with this on our own

Timeline Placement & Stuff

As Toby stated, Deltarune is neither a sequel nor a prequel because it’s not the same world as Undertale, and this is important. You can call it an AU if you want, it’s not far from what I believe it is. However, somethig doesn’t have to be a prequel or sequel to happen before or after something else. Lemme explain.

I personaly stand for the idea that Deltarune is an alternative wolrd to Undertale, hence why the same characters are there, only different. It being an alternative world means it’s still somehow connected to Undertale. If you know anything about the multiple worlds hypothesis, then you should know Undertale and Deltarune’s timelines would run parallel to each other without interfering (they might’ve been one and the same at some point, but not anymore. And timelines cannot merge back). This still means the events of one can take place after or before the other, just in different worlds.

Not necessarily in that order, but like so. We have two dates to go by, and those are the begining narration of Undertale and Ralsei’s cut manual for Deltarune. Undertale’s is 201X, while Deltarune’s is 202X. This would normally mean Deltarune goes around a decade after. However, the date at the beginning of Undertale is not the date the events of the game take place on, but the date the Fallen Human (I’ll refer to them as Chara) ends up in the underground. The game asks us to name the human from the beginning narration, which isn’t Frisk, so we don’t know exactly how much time passed between Chara’s arrival and Frisk’s. It has to be a lot of time, though, seeing as six other humans fell down in that time and most of the monsters underground don’t remember/flat out haven’t seen the surface or the humans by the time Frisk arrives. And if we take Asriel’s transformation at face value, then enough time has passed for a Dreemurr to age from a kid to a... young man, I guess. Which is certainly more than a decade.

Arsiel being in university in Deltarune doesn’t put it after Undertale, because I’m pretty sure Asriel would also be around that age, if not older, by the time Frisk comes around if he hadn’t died.

If you don’t want to take Toby’s declaration too seriously, since he doesn’t outright say anything but Deltarune being a different world from Undertale with different characters that lived different lives; then Chapter 1 still has some evidence that points towards this. None of the characters you meet that were also in Undertale are exactly the same. Not even their sprites. Everyone has at least something different in their designs when compared to the ones seein at the ending credits of the Pacifist run in Undertale. Asgore doesn’t have a crown, Undyne doesn’t wear an eyepatch, Alphys doesn’t have her labcoat and was probably never a scientist, Mettaton never became a star, Toriel has a darker shirt underneath her purple sweater (check it, I’m serious), Bratty and Catty hate each other, and so on. Sadly we don’t get to see Papyrus, The only one who’s exactly the same is Sans.

Sans

There’s a post by @napstamuse (idk about putting links bc of tumblr’s recent algorithm, sorry) comparing all the main sprites of the characters in both Undertale and Deltarune, and Sans’ jacket is has the same color, even down to the hex value of the blue. Not only that, but his personality remains untouched. He still has some sort of attraction (I don’t mean romantic necessarily) to Toriel, still fond of puns, etc. He’s the only one of those we see that’s exactly the same in Deltarune as in Undertale.

He’s more than probably even the exact same Sans from Undertale. As in, he somehow moved from one timeline to the other, unlike the rest who aren’t the same characters per se. We all know by now Sans wasn’t from Undertale, not really. His Genocide fight convo states “I gave up trying to go back a long time ago.” and “getting to the surface doesn't really appeal anymore, either”. This means 1) he’s not from there, from Undertale’s world/timeline and 2) whatever place he’s from isn’t the surface. That’s important. Because a lot of details point towards Sans being originally from Deltarune’s world, then for some reason moving to Undertale’s sometime before Frisk arrives. But when we find him in Deltarune, what does he say?

And when you ask about “Friends”.

Meaning he also came from somewhere else. Considering Deltarune’s town is in, apparently, the surface; then it makes sense why Sans didn’t originate from there, since he didn’t come from the surface. And he knows the surface, as evidenced by him telling Papyrus what the Sun is (though that could also be bc of Alphys’ anime).

But if he doesn’t come from Deltarune’s town, and he also deosn’t come from Undertale’s world; then where does he come from?

I propose Sans is a Darkner. I don’t know if someone has already made this point in a video or post, but hear me out.

Unless Sans is from a different world altogether, then the only place in Deltarune that isn’t the surface (that we know of) is the Dark World. Not only that, but we know thanks to this infamous scene:

... that Darkners bleed. Monsters do not bleed. Susie right there more than probably doesn’t bleed either, and yet Lancer assumes everyone in the Fun Gang does. That can only be because his species, the Darkners, all bleed. You know who else bleeds?

Sans does. And yes, I’m aware there have been ppl saying the red thing coming from him is actually ketchup from a bottle inside his jacket (which, knowing sans, wouldn’t surprise me tbh), but that wouldn’t explain why it comes out of his mouth as well. Hence it must be blood. Monsters from the underground all turn to dust upon defeat, yet Sans is the only one in the game who doesn’t. It doesn’t help the fact that we never see him die on screen and the sound effect that plays when the battle ends isn’t the one of a moster being defeated, but of one being spared. We also never really see Darkners bleed, that’s true, since they all flee from battle and you can’t kill anyone in Chapter 1; but Lancer’s bucket scene tells us that yes, blood is a thing in the Dark World that does come out of bodies when they are beaten.

There’s also another thing that might be minor, but all Darkners get tired after enough time in a battle. It’s the way you defeat the Chaos King and it’s the easiest way to spare enemies in Chapter 1. They all fall asleep. After enough time in a battle, Sans also falls asleep. It’s also the only way to defeat him in Genocide.

So Sans might be a Darkner. Why he left the Dark World (what is the Dark World) and why he then left the world of Deltarune to arrive at Undertale... we don’t know. It could have something to do with Undertale’s Gaster (or maybe Deltarune’s), but again, we don’t know. We’ll have to wait for the rest of Deltarune to come out to have more material to go on, I suppose.

Also the stuff about the “don’t forget” picture with the three smiling people on it. The song at the end credits states “don’t forget, I’m with you in the dark”, and the Fun Gang is comprised of three people. But we have no definitive evidence on that either.

More on the Timeline Placement

I personally believe Deltarune takes place before Undertale, though I suppose a better term would be “earlier” than Undertale in the split worlds. By no means whatever happens in Deltarune affects Undertale, we know that thanks to Toby’s tweet. But Sans being there means something happened that made him leave and enter Undertale, so in some ways it is before that game.

I also know there are some things that make this difficult. I still believe Deltarune comes before, but untill we see Asriel or have any definitive dates we cannot be sure as to which one is earlier in the timeline. Gerson being dead complicates things even more, unless you want to tell me monsters age slower in the underground.

Jevil & Seam

Seam’s line if you speak to him after defeating Jevil, the “darker, yet darker one”, is too specific not to be deliberate. We know Jevil spoke to someone that broke him, and we also know said someone was not the Knight. Not only that, but Jevil uses sprites way too similar to the Everyman to also be a coincidense, when using his carousel attack. We also see the Everyman in the wall of the alley Alphys is at the end of Chapter 1. So something is going on there.

Gaster

I think by now we’ve all somewhat accepted the idea that Gaster is more present in Deltarune than he is in Undertale. The same sound that plays during Entry 17 can be heard if you try to use your phone in the Dark World, and it’s also the noise that sounds near the red doors in the woods of town, only slowed down by a crap ton. The tweets before Deltarune was launched are also more than probably written by Gaster, considering the name of the account was changed to black bars and every tweet was in his text style. During the survey part of Chapter 1 it’s also very probable the one conducting the survey is him, judging by the text style and all the weird choices (like blood types C and D, or the PAIN flavor). That is, of course, until someone else interrupts them. The text stopps being all in uppercase and the speech pattern changes, which is even more evident in the Japanese version as it starts using the correct form of speech (kanji + hiragana) instead of the weird one from before (katakana + hiragana). Coincidentally enough, the only character we know of that speaks in a textbook example of correct speech (thanks to the Japanese version of Undertale), is Chara.

And before anyone starts saying Gaster isn’t there; he is. We just don’t know where. He has to be there, with no Core to build and no accident to happen that means the Gaster of Deltarune is 1) untouched, probably the same he was before everything went down in Undertale and 2) not a scientist, by that matter. Alphys is a teacher, so Gaster has to be around somewhere (more than probably behind the red doors south of the church, but who knows). We can say, though, that there might be more than one Gaster there. Since Undertale’s was “shattered across time and space” because of the accident, and Deltarune’s never had said accident, then both could be around during Chapter 1.

Also the game continues to crash/restart if you try to name either creator or vessel after him.

Dark World

It exists, lets get that out of the way. I highly doubt it was a dream or an hallucination or something, and there’s some evidence pointing to that.

It is very probable, though, that it doesn just... exist. How do I even began to explain this.

It might have been created by some otherworldly power influenced by what was present in the abandoned classroom when Kris and Susie return to town. There was a chess board, chess pieces, a deck of cards, a stuffed toy that looked like Seam, etc. But it did certainly happen. They entered the supply closet. If everything had been a dream or a game, then 1) Susie wouldn’t be surprised and confused (in the case of a game) and 2) they would still be in the supply closet by the time they return. But they were not.

Also, the pencil Kris carries changes if you defeat Jevil before coming back. Not only that, but there’s an item that carries over into your inventory from the Dark World. The egg.

If you are given the egg behind that tree by... whoever that was, it will still be in your inventory when you return to town. You can leave it in Asgore’s fridge and it will multiply, much like the Dog Residue of Undertale. What is up with the egg, we don’t know. Who even gave Kris the egg is also unknown, but for every character we don’t know we could simply answer “Gaster” so we don’t have any clues either.

Kris

Some random thoughts before I close this off.

So Kris. Great adittion to our sweater wearing protagonists, now we can call them the kfc gang.

Seriously, though, Kris. I don’t even know where to begin here.

You can still move their soul when they trap you in the cage. I think this points to the idea that we control Kris by their soul. It’s what appears on the map when we avoid attacks and what, just like in Undertale, we take control of during battles.

It’s also Kris’ file the one we overwrite at the beginning of the Dark World. It’s pretty obvious that we are taking control over them by taking control over their soul. It might just be a bad case of silent protagonist, but Kris never reacts to anything, even when those around them are shocked. He never tries to do anything on their own, except for that one time they chose to protect either Susie or Ralsei (I don’t remember). Also the “your choices don’t matter” theme going on in Chapter 1.

Us being in control instead of them is even more evident when you try to drop the Ball of Junk once you return to town. Kris doesn’t want to, and is upset when we force them to, but they still throw it away; because they have no control over their body. They’re even relieved if you decide not to after the first question.

We can also suppose this control we haver over them isn’t a first time thing, though maybe not necessarily our control. The only objects they posses are the Ball of Junk and the cage over the red... wagon? (I forget what that is called). The rest of their side of the room is empty, as if they were afraid of having anything the ones controlling could simply toss away.

That explains perfectly why they rip their soul out at the ending of Chapter 1, though not the knife and the smile. Though that’s the most speculation in this rant.

Anyway, congrats if you read through all that lol Feel free to add your theories/thoughts and help me correct stuff if there’s anythign contradictory in either games that could debunk anything here.

#deltarune #undertale #deltarune spoilers #deltarune theory #undertale theory #my stuff #raffa tell me if I missed anythign lol #have a cookie if anyone got this far #long post

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