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ceterisparibus116 · 8 months

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Nuance is absolutely important but I think it becomes unnecessary when it's veering into moving goalposts and skewing the argument in favor of painting one side in a better light (in this case, Karen). Like I said, the "honesty measuring contest" is weird and I'm not sure entirely accurate because Matt's secret has, as far as we know, never put Karen in direct danger? All of the dangerous circumstances she found herself in was of her own doing (taunting Fisk, going out to investigate at night) and none because of Matt's secrets. Whereas her not revealing that she was the one who killed Wesley gave Nadeem a reason to justfify his FBI manhunt for Matt even more.

I just don't see the proper logic behind "oh yeah Karen was hypocritical throughout the course of her relationship with Matt and set hypocritical standards that lead to her breaking it off, but in no way is she responsible for the relationship not working out"...? Isn't the very existence of that hypocrisy, of that weird goal post that, "yeah I can set standards that are palplably hypocritical and if you don't meet that, gooodbye" make her a contributor to its implosion? Relationships entail adjustments from both sides, but it feels like your argument is positioning Karen like a controlled variable and that it should be Matt making all the adjustments. If she knows and is aware that her standards are hypocritical, how does that not make her a reason for it not working out? Notwithstanding Matt's reaction to it or his personal feelings about dishonesty, if Karen didn't have that hypocritical, "non-negotiable" standard then she would be more lenient with things and possibly make adjustment to said standards? And my original point was that Karen put Matt on a pedestal the same way you and many others point out that Matt put Karen to, yet this is never addressed.

I just find it weird to see all the mental gymnastics to frame Matt as the sole reason for the relationship not working out lol? It feels like you're laying out all the facts that yeah, "Karen is this, Karen is that" acknowledging her hypocritical standards yet give a contradictory conclusion that "therefore Matt is all to blame for the relationship implosion" and this is where I'm detecting some cognitive dissonance.

I really appreciate you being so logical and rational about this. It seems like you genuinely want to understand where I’m coming from, and that’s really impressive online!

But let me be clear: in response to your asks, I am talking about which character contributed to the relationship not working out. I am NOT talking about which character contributed to the relationship being unhealthy.

And this isn’t me moving the goalposts. I have, from the very beginning, been talking about one (1) thing: the reason why their relationship didn’t work out.

(And btw, this isn't me trying to skew the argument in favor of one character over another, either. Gosh. I respect how you're handling this discussion overall, but this particular claim is attacking my intentions, not my logic or my argument. For whatever it’s worth, if we’re going into intentions, I actually prefer Matt as a character over Karen. Like, significantly! I’d love to skew the argument in Matt’s favor. I have literally zero desire to skew the argument in favor of Karen. The mere fact that I present an argument that favors one character does not mean that I “skewed” the argument in favor of that character.)

But anyway, for the record, again: I agree that Karen is hypocritical, and that’s bad. I also agree that Karen absolutely contributed to the relationship being unhealthy. She did this in many ways, actually, including but not limited to her dishonesty.

But a relationship can continue to exist despite being unhealthy. And in the case of Karedevil: if Matt had been honest with Karen, but she had refused to be honest with him, all signs point to the idea that they would have stayed in a relationship. Would it be unhealthy? Yes. Would she be hypocritical? Yes. Would they have broken up? NO. The only reason they broke up was because she couldn’t handle his dishonesty.

From watching the show, I see no evidence that their relationship (unhealthy as it was) ended because of her hypocrisy. All the evidence I see points to one reason for their relationship ending: Matt’s dishonesty, and her frustration with his dishonesty.

Please, show me where in the show you are getting the idea that Karen's hypocrisy contributed to them breaking up. Show me a scene or a line of dialogue. Show me evidence.

As for the pedestal stuff…eh, I just don’t see how she put him on a pedestal. I see no evidence that she couldn’t handle the thought of Matt having a violent streak, and I really don’t know where in the show you’re basing the opinion that she thought of him as a perfect goody-two-shoes. She obviously is surprised to learn that the apparently mild-mannered lawyer is a secret vigilante, but I don’t see her ever once being disappointed or upset by his violence. The only thing she’s disappointed and upset about is, again the dishonesty.

Like, please show me where in the show you think Karen puts Matt on a pedestal? Don’t just say “Karen put Matt on a pedestal.” That’s a conclusion. Give us evidence! Give us reasoning! Why do you believe Karen put Matt on a pedestal? I have told you why I think she didn’t – now it is up to you to tell us why you think she did. Repeating a conclusion “Karen put Matt on a pedestal” is not enough to change anyone’s mind.

(And make sure that your evidence isn’t about whether Matt thinks Karen put him on a pedestal. I totally think Matt thinks Karen put him on a pedestal. But what Matt thinks is on him. You must have forgotten this, but I actually already addressed this – you said “this is never addressed,” yet I specifically dug into the issue of pedestals in my first reply to you.)

But ultimately, please understand me: I am NOT saying Matt is solely to blame for their relationship being unhealthy. I am simply saying, and have been saying from the beginning, that Matt is solely to blame for their romantic relationship ending.

And you said that I'm being contradictory by acknowledging Karen's flaws yet refusing to say that those flaws contributed to their relationship imploding. Well, no. A person can have a ton of flaws, and yet it doesn't necessarily follow that all of those flaws would lead to a relationship imploding.

Karen's flaws, in my mind, include not only dishonesty, but also: pride, recklessness, selfishness, and a strange inability (or even refusal?) to learn from her mistakes. But I don't think any of those contributed directly to their relationship imploding because I don't see any evidence that it did in the show.

Similarly, Matt has many flaws besides dishonesty, such as: pride, self-loathing, and obviously some anger management issues. But I don't think any of those flaws contributed directly to their relationship imploding.

So there's nothing inherently contradictory in me acknowledging a character's flaw, and yet not believing that the flaw led to a specific outcome.

Finally, you said: “If she knows and is aware that her standards are hypocritical, how does that not make her a reason for it not working out? Notwithstanding Matt's reaction to it or his personal feelings about dishonesty, if Karen didn't have that hypocritical, ‘non-negotiable’ standard then she would be more lenient with things and possibly make adjustment to said standards?”

And ahhhhh. Maybe this is the issue. Maybe you're not actually asking a question: "If Karen were less hypocritical, then would they have stayed together?" but are making a statement: "If Karen were less hypocritical, they would have stayed together!"

Tell me if I'm getting this right.

To you, "If Karen were less hypocritical, they would have stayed together!" appears to be an objective fact, and you are bewildered by the fact that the fandom doesn't see it. And that's why you think I and others have cognitive dissonance, etc.

However, this statement is not an objective fact. It's a possible interpretation of what might happen if we changed an aspect of Karen.

But here's the thing: that's not the only possible interpretation. Actually, there are five possible outcomes, at least, to her being less hypocritical:

She becomes more tolerant of dishonesty (both hers and his) and therefore doesn’t break up with him over his dishonesty – so ta-da, they stay together;

She becomes less tolerant of dishonesty (both hers and his) and therefore shares her secrets, which results in Matt sharing his – and ta-da, they stay together;

She becomes less tolerant of dishonesty (both hers and his) and therefore shares her secrets, which unfortunately results in Matt still NOT sharing his – and they break up;

She becomes less tolerant of dishonesty (both hers and his) but also can’t bring herself to share her secrets, so she either ends the relationship or doesn’t enter it in the first place – so they’re not together, one way or the other; and finally

She becomes either more or less tolerant of dishonesty (both hers and his), but not to such a significant degree that it causes her to be okay with dating someone who is lying about such a significant part of Matt’s life as Matt is.

Ultimately, all five of these are possible interpretations, because you are veering into the world of speculation with this. Ultimately, we don’t know what would happen if Karen were less hypocritical. We don’t know how the causal chain would continue.

And it’s totally valid of you to have your interpretation, to think “If Karen were less hypocritical, she would be tolerant of Matt’s dishonesty, and they wouldn’t break up.”

But as you can see, two of those options, (c) and (e), would allow her to be less hypocritical, and yet they would still break up due to Matt’s dishonesty. Those are both possible interpretations.

Personally, I think “e” is the most likely explanation. I think that even if Karen becomes less hypocritical, Matt’s dishonesty is so pervasive and so intimately connected with who he is as a person that she would not tolerate it. After all, we’re not talking about little white lies here.

However, even though I think “e” is the most likely explanation, I’m not gonna go around accusing other people of moving the goalposts, skewing arguments, having cognitive dissonance, or engaging in mental gymnastics simply because they reach a different interpretation than the one that I think is most likely.

Like…this is fandom, my friend. Interpretation is subjective. And speculation about what would happen if we changed Karen as a variable is just that: speculation. I could write fics exploring all five different scenarios (which would be fun, actually) because all five scenarios are possible.

The only thing that is objective fact is that she broke up with him because of his dishonesty. Everything else is speculation.

And that’s not me heaping blame on Matt. That’s just me doing an analysis of the sequence of events in the show and their causal connection. You don’t have to agree with my analysis, but gosh, I really don’t see how I’m doing mental gymnastics or anything like that here. I’m literally just looking at what happened in the show.

But we might just have to agree to disagree on this.

#matt murdock #karen page #karedevil #daredevil #meta #discourse

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yoonyia · 3 months

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my friends referred to me as dark academia but a person and I don't know how to feel about it.

Anyways here's my thoughts on enders shadow so far and by that I mean basically nothing about the book and more about how Orson Scott Card can be what he is and still write stories of such compassion.

Orson Scott Card, for being the horrible person he is, is remarkably good at looking at a story from a different perspective, from a different lense and voice, to completely recontextualize a scene in a way that I really can't see a lot of other authors doing.

It really perplexes me that a person of this type of nature can be so judgemental and stubborn in their beliefs.

Now im no psychology major, nor have a lived long enough to consider my experience a proper case study but from what I saw from the people I met people of this nature are

1. incredibly rare, especially when it comes to subtlety and going against their own beliefs (or even just critiquing a slight part of their own beliefs)

2. incredibly kind and understanding, usually a bit aloof due to their way of always looking at an idea from the eyes of a million people. You can't really make a joke with them because they will take it as fact or see the sourness behind it, and they might be too understanding of horrible deeds and people, but at the end of the day they're kind.

Now of course exceptions to these kinda 'rules' always exists, if humans were black and white we wouldn't need to entire fields of study about it. But I find it so intriguing that osc wrote Ender as the exact person I mentioned before while seemingly not being like ender at all.

But the way he talks about his work and how he write about his loves makes me ponder at his nature for hours on end. When you read his introductions and how he came to write what he wrote he really seems to be absorbed by it. He said it gave him jealousy to not have him be the person writing enders shadow and the way he talks about his own work and ender really just seems like he's talking about himself, a constant reflection that's common among people of this nature.

Now im not saying he should be forgiven for his actions or that he didn't mean any of the horrible things he said, he meant every single word of it I'm sure. But I do also believe that he is a person of deep kindness, somewhere behind that twisted outlook of life I believe he thinks of himself as just and believes his words to be of compassion.

Or I'm assuming incorrectly, like I said I'm not qualified to psycho-analyze a person I've never met. He might have put nothing of his aiua into his writing, it might have been idea given to him by random chemical patterns in his body and he has no emotional connection to it beyond that. Who knows.

the answer is no one, or at least definitely not the writer himself.

And now that I look at what I wrote it really isn't that big of an assumption, of course he believes himself as being kind everyone tries to do that about something in their life (unless you're like me and assume everything you do is out of malice and if so I am so sorry) no the bigger mystery is how a person who can look at things from such distinct perspectives come to that conclusion.

I often wonder if the price to be a good artist is to be insane. Or inherently broken in some core human way, a giant contradiction.

I would pay the price to be a good artist, perhaps I maybe already have just without seeing the results of work. But it does make me afraid that I find myself so similar to a person like OSC, or similar to people who drove themselves mad or people who were killed or judged or punished for their ideas.

Maybe I only try and see the justification of the writers actions through his own mind because in some part of my heart I love the work to much to even mildly dislike the author. Because this world that was made inside this persons head is so beautiful it took away a piece of me and I feel unclean knowing that it was taken by someone who said some absolutely horrible, foul things.

Maybe I feel guilty of enjoying a story made by such a person

and maybe the person feels as guilty by writing it

#enders game #enders shadow

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indiemovies · 2 years

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(in response) EXACTLY

canon nancy has been... through so much people-wise. apart from her blood family, nancy's had no one-on-one relationships survive, or end all that well

steve's out of high school, and it's pretty evident they don't spend much, if any at all, time together. jonathan's been in cali for a year, and the both of them are definitely aware things are sliding downhill. barb- well. barb and fred are pretty self explanatory. but the point is, ever since she lost barb, she hasn't really figured out how to be much of (and i mean this in the nicest way) a functioning member of human society

and honestly, it's not exactly clear if barb's death was the proper catalyst for this. because even before, nancy was struggling to maintain a balance between keeping her best friend + their relationship the same, and trying to date king steve. barb was absolutely right, nancy was acting Off and doing things that weren't true to herself

but after losing barb, nancy was. quick to spiral into place of depression and guilt and trying to deal with trauma while keeping her head above water and holding up appearances as virtually everyone around her, even those who were involved, seemingly moved on with their lives. idk what it was about nancy and barb, whether nancy loved barb or vice versa, or none of the above, but it seemed like that was her one true friendship. the only other times we see her hinting at having other friends is when she gets an invite handed to her at the door by tina, and when she tells her mom she's sleeping over at ally's or stacy's (though later we see karen. saying the wrong name which clearly implies that nancy doesn't talk much to her parents about said friends, because karen can keep track of mike's friends fairly well imo)

and exactly as you said !!!! fred's death dragged all of her insecurities and past traumas back up and into the open, and while she's trying to (once again) wrap all her interpersonal troubles up with duct tape and shove them in little boxes in her brain to deal with the more physical, earth-threatening issues at hand, robin hurricanes into her peripheral. so nancy starts to let robin in bit by bit, etc etc, and then. the finale. and of course nancy's gotta be the one (wo)manning the plan, because if she can do anything to make sure her loved ones aren't ripped away from her by this bastard, she will. except, the plan sorta goes to shit, through no fault of her own, and-

gOOD GOD WHEN WILL THE WRITERS PLEASE ADDRESS NANCY'S ONGOING TRAUMA WITH HER LOVED ONES !! because it seems like a good portion of the fandom writers are occupied kissing steve's ass (or having eddie kiss said ass) and yknow. there's nothing wrong with that ship, or having favorites who aren't nancy. but just... there's so much to explore and delve into, even if she's not always the easiest-to-love character. god this is so long and rambly i apologize

in conclusion, i love nancy wheeler, and i love her more for her flaws and the fact that she, badass who wields guns and kills monsters, hasn't quite figured out the living-a-normal-life part, especially when you try to throw her own emotions into the mix

SCREAMINGGGGG......THIS ALL OF THIS!!!!!!!! never apologize for sending a long nancy message to me bc it is truly the greatest gift anyone can bestow upon me and you are enabling to reciprocate by talking about nancy for a long time as well

ok um YES i agree with everything you said especially about stuff starting even before barb's death. i hate barb discourse (though i understand how the overhyping can lead to retroactive hatred) i just think the dismissal of either barb or nancy as a bad friend is just the most boring and lame way you can approach that dynamic. i love nancy going through normal teen girl struggles of wanting to be different but also wanting to fit in. and her relationship with barb being such a necessary element in this conflict. AND PEOPLE DONT UNDERSTAND THEY WERE LITERALLY CHILDHOOD GIRL BEST FRIENDS who were maybe intense and maybe had feelings for each other they could never quite understand. and that intensity can lead to things like jealousy/possessiveness/resistance to change. so maybe they were both bad friends or neither of them were but that doesn't even matter bc they were each other's best friend.

and i think post s1 nancy struggled so much trying to be a normal teen girl again. everything she longed for at the start of the show seems so frivolous to her now that she's experienced a loss that has shaken her. that's in part why her relationship with steve didnt work, it wasnt bc she associates his pool/their first time with barb's death (or at least it wasn't just that) it's that barb's death forced her to grow up and shattered the illusion of normalcy and complacency for her. she's like what did i use to want and why did i ever want that. and ever since mid-s2 then she's been gogogo, not stopping bc she knows the second she does 1)she has to face her own thoughts and feelings and 2) she feels like she has to protect people through her proactiveness, whether that's her loved ones or some innocent civilian being victimized by authority/government without accountability (does this make sense. she is a true for the people journalist imo) and so she can't stop.

but i really hope in the final season she can get a moment where she CAN stop. where someone makes her. sits her down and talks to her and tells her she doesn't have to responsible for everyone and every bad thing in the world. and i hope that person is EITHER robin or mike.

also i agree with you on that last point lol obviously anyone can like whoever they like (as long as it's not b*lly) and i like steve and eddie!!! but i feel like all of their scenes, characterizations, and possible backgrounds have been analyzed and talked about to hell and back. meanwhile nancy has not slept in 52 hours and is mean to people to keep them out so if she loses them it won't hurt as bad (but she still tries so desperately to save them) and acts more like an alert aggressive guard dog for her family rather than a daughter/sister atp and her face lights up when she finds her old stuffed animal and. no one is talking about it but she is literally THE CHARACTER OF ALL TIME. it's so annoying when people are like "i hate this character for [intentional character flaw/mistake that is literally what makes them so interesting]" GROW UP!!!

also it is going to be hilarious and sad when she shows up to emerson as this battle-hardened serious journalist freshman and she cant help but resent her roommate bc the worst thing that ever happened to her was her parents divorcing. nancy cannot be a functioning member of society at this point!!! and this leads perfectly into my "nancy gets laid off from a newspaper at age 27 and opens a supernatural detective agency" vision

#nancy wheeler you can shoot vecna with a shotgun but you cannot shoot your trauma!!!!!! confront it <3 #tldr; someone take away this girl's gun and hand her a dsm!!!!#asks like this make so happy i love talking about nancy and i love hearing what you have to say!#it is funny that shes so abrasive but shes the most desired woman in hawkins but she's sm more than her romantic relationships #answered #anonymous #nancy wheeler

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gaygayaurel · 7 months

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What happens to the mf when he listens to DT videos in BG

I truly hope that player is a shitheel deltarune thing isnt really really the end theme because as interesting as it is the best solution is to not play the game at all and personally i would very much like if the gane told me how to co-live with it (undertale) rather than wholesale condemn my presence while ironically demanding me to play it to exist. Now it does make an interesting question of how nuch do you pay for experience how much are you willing to hurt to get out most of the game etc. Was it right of yourself to impose your will on Frisk even if it lead to the "correct conclusion?" It would make sense and there would be a lot of definitely cool questions - it would be like Pathological which is player hostile to drive home the point of the misery oof the situation.

Somethinf about Deltarune and its One Ending thing also makes me think about uh i dunno what is the proper name, but walking simulators. You dont do anything but go on and try to piece together pieces of story which is tide enviromentally to yo. Now of course, DT is classic RPG through and through but the while one ending (but it matters what you discover and experience) would shed a lot of light on the situation. Why do we play games that give us no agency, where we cant change anything (and to tie to my earlier paragraph, why do we insist on our presence muddling the story that plays out to the same conclusion?) Is weird route our struggle against fate and doing monstrous things to break out and prepare (in vain)?

It reminds me of discussions around the game where you drop a bomb and people are really mad you did it because well the game didnt give you a choice otherwise. But to me it made perfect sense. It is common in visual novels to block r or force a choice on certain routes. Now I never played the soldier game so I cant tell how effectively it does choices. But to me forcing a soldier to fire a bomv is poignant - what else could he do? Agaib i dont know the details, maybe it was done in a shoddy way and other places in the game had choices or people felt like it wad heavyhanded. Would it have been better if you chose not to fire but got shot for it like instantly? I think abt it because like if the best is to not drop the bomb then the best thing is to not play the game. Just like in Deltarune.

Did I seriously talk myself out of. My first gut position? Yea because I am a pussy and I dont want to hurt anyone even if that someone is a story and I dont eant to be judged as bad person by a narrative. I am sort of a person who meticilously plan out their Mass Effect 2 or Witcher 3 run to get exactly what I want. Games like DT are freeing but also terrifying in a way. And deltarune world is so nice and detailed and full of life and interesting facts and its just so nice to talk to people and go on adventure and wait a fuckimg minute

Deltarune is just like a Dark world in a sense. We dip in we get to control a cooler avatar we get a ton of cool characters we want to meet or see their lives deleted. We try and figure out the best course for it and we try to find all the secrets. The dark world represents escapism but also noteable gamification FOR the beloved Lightners but their world is already GAMIFIED TO US. Theres almost game inside the game feel to it all.

Of course noone in the gane takes over Established People's Life so the point could be moot. They remain themselves. And its interesting they dont have the choice to kill or anything, unless YOU the outside influenfce intervene in gamebreaking way. Someone who sees both layers as a game forces the thought in (weird route). But they still have larger influence and disrupt the gane world they enter just like you do, and yet are limited to seemingly one path just luke you are.

Or something. I am just excited to see what Toby does, I love his games so far they are very charming this is very half hearted rambling.

#deltarune #deltarune theory #Rants ill delete in three days

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justanotherthrowaway1950 · 2 years

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My Fire Warriors' Backstory: The General Version

Keynote: I have a free use policy, so if you want to use the ideas in this post, or any of my other works, please do; in fact, I would be honored! Though the only thing that I ask is can you please tell me when you have completed such a work, if it is possible, so I can see it? Thanks!

Note: Starting counterclockwise from Zirin the names of the Fire Warriors in the following link are the following: Zirin, Ting, Gamon, Chyou, Aiko, and Beam: https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/avatar/images/e/ea/Fire_Warriors.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/350?cb=20200618141927

Beam (DID Plus Avoidant Personality Disorder)

Born in 84 A.G. as the second child of three, and the only daughter of an upstart noble and a stay at home mother, Beam was expected to marry into nobility considering how well her father had done selling steel to the Fire Nation Navy and the fact that she had inherited her mothers’ good looks.

But Beam, for a lack of better words, was often detached from reality and quickly became a source of shame for her family. For Beam would often drift out of reality into her own little world whenever confronted with large amounts of stress.

And what causes stress in Beam? Being around strangers, especially large numbers of them like parents’ hosted one of their frequent parties in an attempt to move up in Fire Nation High Society.

In fact, Beam started wearing her distinctive hairstyle plus dye in an attempt to avoid having people come to her much to her brothers and parents displeasure. And when that didn’t work, she started to wear masks such as those based on the dark water spirit or the dragon emperor.

On a side note, the only thing that really helped Beam was firebending, where she had a natural gift. However, due to her performance issues, whenever her brothers and/or parents came to watch, she always messed up her routines, leading them to cancel Beam’s lessons when she was 16 in order to focus on making Beam marriageable.

This caused Beam to despair and undergo a nasty episode in which she wholeheartedly believed she was the dark water spirit and almost killed her older brother, who was “obviously” the Dragon Emperor. Said brother also happened to be the one who suggested her parents cancel the firebending lessons and make Beam a proper woman since he was going to get married soon and didn’t want his fiancee’s family to revoke the marriage contract once they better got to know his “weirdo” of a sister.

The above incident was the last straw for her parents, who had her involuntarily committed after coming to the “conclusion” that nothing would fix their “madwomen” of a daughter.

Aiko (Clinical Depression)

Born in 87 A.G. as the unexpected last daughter of a merchant and a very low level noblewomen, life has always been a struggle for Aiko. Her mother had her in her early 40s after unexpectedly getting pregnant and giving birth to Aiko prematurely. Aiko and her mother barely survived but her mother ended up suffering from postpartum depression, hurting their mother-daughter bond.

Aiko grew up seemingly loved, but in reality she was always sad. And no amount of gifts, such as some of the best firebending tutors in the land, could ever make Aiko happy for it appeared from Aiko’s POV that her mother never wanted to do anything with her while she happily gave her love and time to her oldest two kids, who were both boys and going to join the war effort.

That and she was relentlessly bullied in school for her demure size; one day she tried standing up for herself by getting into an impromptu fight with her main bully, but she accidentally badly burned her due to being actually quite skilled in firebending. While Aiko managed to avoid jail or getting into trouble, the trauma of almost killing some made Aiko withdraw further into herself much to her parent’s grief.

Her brothers were the main positive thing in her life, for they were understanding of her and didn’t really push her that hard...except in firebending where they were the only people she felt safe enough after her incident.

However, things took a turn for the worse when her brothers finally joined the army and died in the very same maneuver that Zuko talked out against as a 13 year old. And in her grief, Aiko tried hanging herself though the noose broke just before it went taunt and she ended up knocking herself out.

And when she woke up, she found herself in the asylum….

Chyou (Bipolar Disorder)

Born in 84 A.G. as the adopted child of two low tier Hu Xin Provinces (colonial) nobles who were unable to have kids of their own. Her parents tried their best with Chyou, but she was a very difficult child to raise, for, in their perspective, one moment Chyou was a hyper energetic girl who was all too willing to do anything to achieve her long-term goals and whims. Goals that included being the best firebender in her school and being a proper noblewoman. And whims including a desire to shave half her head though that particular fulfilled whim didn’t really harm Chyou for she liked the hairstyle and kept it much to her parent’s dismay.

But in other moments, Chyrou was a heavily depressed girl, who couldn’t even be bothered to get out of her bed no matter how hard her parents tried to encourage/bribe/threaten her.

However, these “cycles” were just subtle enough that with her parents covering for her, Chyou could pass as a normal kid...that is until one night, she overheard a conversation between her parents talking about how much Chyou looked like her mother’s sister. Confused since she thought she had no blood relations with either of her parents (they told her she was adopted from a young age since Chyou doesn’t share that much in common with either with her parents), she confronted them and the told Chyou her true origin.

Chyou was in fact the love baby of an Earth Kingdom soldier and a Fire Nation noblewomen who was Chyou’s “mother’s” sister. And while the Fire Nation is progressive in terms of gender roles, it was against the law for Fire Nation noblewomen to copulate with the males of the other nations.

For Sozin’s reasoning was that the strong men of the Fire Nation could civilize the demure women of the other nations while the barbarians’ uncivilized blood could easily overwhelm the wombs of their women, which were needed to make sure their great nation would never lack loyal citizens. In reality, due to the patriarchal nature of inheritance and property ownership, Sozin feared the colonized enemy would marry into Fire Nation nobility and basically overthrow him once their numbers reached critical mass.

But getting back on track, it wasn’t discovered that Chyou’s real mother was having the baby of an Earth Kingdom soldier, let alone she was going to elope with him. So the Fire Nation tried to capture the soldier and kill him, but he ran off. However, after allowing Chyou’s true mother to give birth, the Fire Nation had her killed off. But, Chyou’s Aunt and Uncle took pity on Chyou and successfully begged the authorities to let them raise Chyou as their own kid.

Chyou’s Aunt and Uncle begged for Chyou’s forgiveness and she gave it to them...though she later had a manic episode that caused her to sneak out of her Aunt’s and Uncle’s house to search for her father, hoping she would get to meet him.

It took several weeks and all of the tracking and survival skills she learned in school, but she found the last place her father inhabited. But when she knocked on the door, her bio grandma opened the door and, once Chyou explained who she was, told the “lying ash maker to get away from me and never come back unless you want to die” in addition to telling Chyou that her father died during General Iroh’s march to Ba Sing Se.

For Chyou’s bio grandma never knew about her son’s relationship with Chyou’s mother, let alone that he was going to have a child with her and thus thought the young firebender was punking her...not that it would have made a difference for after she couldn’t even bury her son due to him being completely burned to ashes, she developed an intractable hatred towards the Fire Nation and especially firebenders. And that hatred wouldn’t dissipate even if her own granddaughter was one of those “ash makers.”

Heartbroken at the rejection, Chyou then fell into a serious depressive state and was going to kill herself until she was apprehended by June and returned to her family, who had been paid by Chyou’s parents to find her before the colonial authorities did. For if the “mixed breed” had been found going “back” to her Earth Kingdom family, Chyou would have been killed for her “genetic disloyalty” caused by her parentage.

And when Chyou kept uncontrollably talking about her failed trip, Chyrou’s parents made a hard decision and had her temporarily involuntarily committed since they would rather have her suffer at the asylum (as well as get help for her myriad of issues) than have her rambling expose her “genetic disloyalty” and have her brutally executed, making all their pleadings to allow them to raise her pointless.

However, bigoted political hardliner healers in the asylum saw her history and decided unilaterally that she was a threat to society and so manipulated her record to make so she had died, leaving Chyou’s Aunt and Uncle (who were pretty old) heartbroken to the point they died within a couple of months of each other and turning Chyou’s temporary stay into a permanent stay.

Chyou, depending on whether she is having a manic episode or depressive episode, oscillates between believing her Aunt and Uncle haven’t given up on her and believing that they have finally given up on account of being a disgrace due to her mental issues and bloodline.

Zirin (Oppositional Defiant Disorder With Mild Conduct Disorder)

Born in 85 A.G. as the only daughter of some minor nobles who live in Caldera City. She has ODD, which manifests in her explosive temper, which her parents tried solving by doing everything, including getting her training in firebending, which Zirin has a natural aptitude in considering she became a master by 16.

But despite her parent’s best efforts, her anger still didn’t really subside, leading up to an incident where she burned a highly sought out suitor for rubbing her the wrong way, leading her reputation to sink and make her unmarriable, making Zirin worthless in her traditionalist parents’ eyes.

Zirin offered to join the Fire Nation military so she could be useful, but her traditionalist parents said no since the military is not the proper place for a young noblewoman. So they had her involuntarily admitted to the asylum…

Ting (Schizophrenia)

Born in 82 A.G. as the daughter of a minor Fire Nation noble and an Earth Kingdom commoner (that her father took a liking to) who lived in Yu Dao, Ting on the surface supposedly lived a charmed life. But her life was anything but charmed, for she didn’t not inherit her mother’s slim face and body, but had the stout body and face of a typical Earth Kingdomer. Meaning that it would be next to impossible to marry her off to another noble family for even in the colonies, there was a preference for Fire Nation traits among the nobility.

Not helping was just after Ting was 6, she would suffer periodically from hallucinations of her father whenever she messed up in school or in court, often having her speech deteriorate into “incoherent” babbling (ex. Ting asking “him” to stop hitting her) and often fighting back against a person who wasn’t there.

Obviously, this was just another thing that made Ting a massive disappointment in her father’s eyes.

So upset as his “mistake” Ting’s father often beat up his wife and daughter and seeing how Avatar takes place in fantasy land 19th century Asia, there was no one who they could turn to. In fact the only reason why Ting was “tolerated” was because she was an elite firebender, who naturally excelled at Sozin Style firebending due to her rage and self-loathing caused by her “madness.”

Thus, even if Ting was unmarriable, she was likely going to have a good career in the Fire Nation Army. That is until one night when Ting was 16 witnessed a really bad argument between her drunk parents that ended up with her father breaking her mother’s arm.

Enraged and having enough, she fought her father and ended up badly burning him in public as he tried to escape her.

The authorities then restrained her and tried to put her on trial, but horrified at what she had done, she had a severe episode that made the authorities doubt her sanity.

So sensing an opportunity to save face and not have his dirty laundry aired, Ting’s father authorized the colonial authorities to ship Ting to a homeland mental asylum for “treatment” damn well knowing they would most likely never let Ting out. And he had authorized Ting’s involuntary committal at the dead of night so Ting’s mother could not disapprove.

Gamon (Higher Functioning Autism)

Born in 83 A.G. to two high functioning autistic former soldiers living in Hama’s village, Gamon would have been raised in a loving family. That is until her parents one night disappeared during a full moon and never came back (they were captured by Hama and tortured to death but the little shred of humanity left in Hama caused Hama to leave the baby alone despite wanting to spite Gamon’s pleading parents). So Gamon was given to her next of kin, who were mid tier nobles. It turned out that Gamon’s mother was once a noble, but renounced it so she could join the Fire Nation Army due to her special interest being the military alongside firebending. This had caused Gamon’s maternal grandparents and Gamon’s Uncle great shame and had also caused them to disown Gamon’s mother. And the sad thing was that despite Gamon’s mother wanting to reconcile, her parents died just after she got pregnant.

So when Gamon’s Uncle and Aunt got a hold of her, they promised that they would raise her into the proper noblewomen Gamon’s mother should have been.

And they were very harsh in doing so, making sure Gamon took to heart what her tutors told her what was necessary to do to be the perfect noblewomen. However, lightning struck twice, and Gamon developed a special interest in both firebending and military history, which she hid from her Uncle and Aunt by practicing firebending in the morning before either of them woke up and reading military history at night after they had gone to bed.

Gamon managed to hide it until she was 15 years old, where, after being suspicious of Gamon knowing an obscure military battle that took place during the start of Azulon’s reign while also giving pointers to a boy she was courting, they had one of the maids spy on her and report to them.

This, combined with Gamon’s symptoms such as her stimming (she likes to rub her knuckles because she likes how they feel) plus her social awkwardness (no matter how hard they drilled her, Gamon always floundered in noble get togethers), made her guardians give up her.

And not wanting a repeat of what happened to Gamon’s mother and the resulting loss of face, they had her involuntarily committed to the asylum and washed their hands of her.

#zirin #kemurikage #fake kemurikage #fire warriors #smoke and shadow #asylum abuse #fire warriors meta

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steriskks · 3 years

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Top 5 4 saddest things you've ever heard of.

#biggest takeaway from this is that i dont know how to draw dogs #also the fact that we will never have a proper conclusion to this kills me #art #teenage bounty hunters #sterling wesley #blair wesley

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cafedanslanuit · 3 years

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♡ — pairing: kazutora x reader

♡ — summary: after a long day at work, you want nothing but to spend a calm night with your boyfriend. however, you have no idea this is the night were all his demons finally get the best of him.

♡ — tags/warnings: female reader, angst, breakups, hurt feelings everywhere, mention on mental illnesses and nightmares, based on ben platt’s song ‘carefully’, mention of tora’s job in one of the future timelines.

♡ — a/n: i enjoyed writing kazutora so. damn. much. also, i’m quite proud of this one and the small details i added~ thank you @ofoceansandtombstones for being my lovely beta <3

♡ — masterlist

And all this time you've had a gentle way of holding me

So could you please release me that way too?

— “carefully” by Ben Platt

“It’s open, come in!”

The first thing Kazutora sees when he opens the door of your apartment is you, kneeling on the kitchen floor and picking up pieces of a broken baking dish. Red sauce has splattered everywhere and his mind betrays him for a second, imagining an accident far worse than what has truly happened. He blinks twice and starts to notice the small details that finally slow down the fast beating of his heart. There are pieces of chicken breasts next to the open oven door and what he thinks are sliced carrots next to your right knee.

You hiss when you pick up a piece of the shattered glass, the sharp end pinching your finger. Kazutora comes back to his senses, widening his eyes as he realizes he’s just been standing there.

“Hey, let me. You’ll cut yourself,” he warns, walking up to you. Grabbing both your hands, he eases you into your feet and then guides you to the living room. “I’ll take care of it,” he promises as he goes back to the kitchen and starts cleaning up the mess.

You let yourself fall on the sofa with a loud thud and let out an exasperated sigh.

“I just had the most awful day,” you whine, taking off your apron and leaving it on the arm of the sofa. “Work was hell, I got scolded by something that I didn’t do— like always, only this time my boss was all like: ‘You gotta be more careful, we wouldn’t want to lose such a valuable employee’. Like he was going to fire me over someone else’s mistake?!”

Your voice is getting louder by the minute and you take advantage of the fact Kazutora is in another room to keep the volume. You have been waiting the entire day to see him and vent about what a trainwreck you day had been. Just as always, he listens intently, the only noise coming from the kitchen being a soft scraping sound as he picks up everything and throws it to the trash.

“Then, I went to the store and of course they had run out of basil. Tell me, how does a store that big run out of basil?” you ask. There’s no answer from the kitchen so you continue. “I mean, yeah, I could have gone to another store but my feet were killing me. I’m just not meant to work in heels the entire day,” you sigh tiredly, swinging your feet.

You reposition yourself, now sitting cross-legged on the sofa. Putting your right hand on your left shoulder, you stretch your neck, feeling your sore muscles releasing a bit of tension with a small ‘pop’.

“I ended up preparing something entirely different than I had planned for dinner. I tried to let it go but just as I was going to put it in the oven, it slipped my hands and—”

“I think we should break up.”

Words die in your lips the moment you listen to your boyfriend speak. The silence becomes loud and abrasive as you struggle to understand what was happening. Why was Kazutora breaking up with you with such a small voice? What had triggered him to come to that conclusion? Why had he decided to bring it up now? You turn your head to the kitchen door and watch him slowly make his way towards you, doubtful steps as he takes a seat on the other side of the sofa, avoiding your eyes at all costs.

“What?” you ask, your voice hoarse. His lips form a tight line and you see him swallowing nervously.

“I’m not doing okay— haven’t been for a while. I— it’s been two years since I left prison and I still haven’t— I don’t— I don’t know what I’m doing,” he explains, looking down at his hands.

You nod slowly, trying to comprehend where he’s coming from. Turning your body towards him, you take a deep breath before speaking.

“It’s okay not to know,” you assure him in a soft voice. “Just… take it slow. One day at a time and then I’m sure you’ll—”

“I haven’t been sleeping well,” Kazutora confesses and you notice his voice wavering a little. “I— I keep having nightmares about— about that day and— and also about the motorcycle shop. Those two mix up and…” he takes one of his hands to the side of his head, his fingers grazing his temple. “And I’m hitting Baji in the head. And there’s so much blood— so, so much blood and—”

Leaning forward, you take his hands. They’re shaking and extremely cold and you rub your thumb over his knuckles, trying your best to soothe him.

“Hey, it’s okay. You’re safe now, Tora, you’re—”

Kazutora pulls his hands away hastily, leaving a tingling sensation on your palms.

“I can’t!” he says as he shakes his head. You spend a moment looking at your empty hands, never before having felt your boyfriend’s rejection. “I feel like I’m drowning and— You know what? I think relationships just aren’t for me,” he shrugs, his hands moving in exaggerated gestures. “That’s why I never cared for dating, never got myself involved in that kind of shit, not until—”

He finally looks at you and, fuck, you wish he didn’t. You’re not sure if you have the strength to deal with such hurtful discourse. You lick your lips and take yet another deep breath, deciding to ignore his hurtful remark.

“I’m… so sorry you’re feeling this way,” you say, slowing down your words, trying your best not to show how hurt you were. This isn’t him, you tell yourself. So no need for that tightness in your throat. “But you have to understand it’s not because of me. It’s because of everything that you’ve gone through and how hard it’s to deal with them. I don’t blame you, it is hard. But this… us,” you gesture to the both of you. “This is a good thing. Despite all the pain and hurt we’ve both been through, we—”

“Please, stop,” he says, raising his hand and pressing his eyelids together. “I can’t be with you anymore. That’s it, that’s all—”

“So you don’t love me anymore?” you counter. You scoff in disbelief, shaking your head. Kazutora’s eyes shoot open and you notice his pupils shaking in fear, like a deer caught in headlights.

“I love you,” he breathes out, and for a moment you see the boy you fell in love with in his amber eyes that are quickly filling with tears. “I do love you but it’s killing me. I feel like I’m dying,” he chokes out. He looks away from you once more and starts tugging at his fingers. “I’m rotting inside and I don’t know what to do to make it better. I just want it to stop. I want it to stop and— I don’t want you around when I’m like this. I want to figure out what the hell is happening and—”

“But if you love me and I love you then why—”

“I’m not happy with you!”

Kazutora widens his eyes, scared by his loud outburst. He parts his lips, silently muttering nonsense as he tries to come up with words that can make it better. You lower your head and he wants to punch himself over it. He doesn’t want to make you cry, not after everything you’ve done for him. Is he really going to be the person that hurt the one that made a home for him in her embrace? Is he going to hurt the only person that was brave enough to pick up the pieces of his shattered soul?

“I’m…” he babbles, in a soft voice. “I’m sorry, I didn’t mean it.”

You snort. “No, you really did mean it, Tora.”

He can sense the hurt and sadness in your voice, even if now you’re the one that won’t look at him. He watches helplessly as you stand up and walk towards the living room window in complete silence. The apron you took off is still on the couch and the vast memories of all the times he embraced you while you were wearing it quickly fill his mind.

He wishes there was a way he could keep you. But no matter how much he wants to, he knows there really is no other way. He’s thought about this countless times. He has gone to work without getting proper sleep, stared at his blank tv screen for hours on end, trying to come up with a plan where he could keep you. Was staying with the person he loved the most too much to ask?

No matter in how many shades of light or with how much care he handled the memory of you, the only way he could spare you the greatest amount of pain was to leave you— even if he knew he’d end up shattering your heart as well.

Kazutora notices the way your fingers tightly close around the edge of the window, your knuckles turning white. He had come to terms that he’d lose you today, yet he never expected for it to be this way. It doesn’t matter, he tells himself. If hating him would mend your wounds faster, then he’d take it. Anything that would make the heartache he was causing you a little bit lighter. He knew you were the last person on Earth that deserved to go to bed carrying that much pain in her soul.

Looking out the window, you focus on a small girl walking her dog on the street. It’s a brown labrador and by the size of it, it’s barely a puppy. Rather than walk, it jumps on its four legs, his little head looking back at the girl every chance he has as he happily wags his tail. The pet shop Kazutora and Chifuyu work at immediately comes to mind. Would it be like this from now on? Small things eliciting memories of your days together without your consent and leaving a sour taste in your mouth?

You will need to find a new commute, you think, as you had been stopping by the pet shop on your way home for the past year. Is there another bus that you could take? As you try to remember the lines and their respective routes, you’re engulfed by the memory of the first time Kazutora dozed off with his head resting on your shoulder as you rode the bus together. You close your eyes and you can clearly see his peaceful expression and slightly parted lips as he slept, his fingers tightly intertwined with yours. His breathing is slow and his hands are cold and you wish you could go back, even for a minute and place a kiss on top of his head, since you wouldn’t be able to do so from now on.

Where exactly had you failed? You had just been complaining about your day when he dropped the bomb. Did you complain too much? Did you talk too much? Or was it you the one that was too much? You tried your best and supported him as much as you could but as it turns out, it hadn’t been enough. Good intentions were nothing but useless as you were now saying goodbye to the man you had loved the most.

You didn’t realize you were crying until you felt Kazutora’s cold knuckles against your cheek, wiping your tears. You gasp, startled by his touch and take a couple steps back until your back hits the wall. It takes a few seconds for him to bring his hand now, unsure on what to do next.

He looks so scared and small— it fills your heart with frustration. Your whole body is screaming to take a step forward and comfort him, cradle him in your arms like so many times before, assure him he’s safe with you and that he doesn’t have to worry anymore. That, if you can still go home to each other at the end of a bad day, you can take anything life throws at you.

But that’s the thing. You’re not each other’s home anymore. You don’t get to bury your face in his neck and hum happily when his perfume reaches your nose. You don’t get to have him take a nap on your lap as you watch a series or feel his lips ghost against yours seconds before colliding in a kiss.

You hate it.

“I’m sorry,” he whispers, crossing his arms in front of his chest and looking down at his feet. “Please, don’t cry.”

“You know what, Kazutora?” you say, wiping your tears with the back of your hand. You taste venom in your words, yet that doesn’t stop you. “If you’re not happy with me, then what are you doing here?”

He flinches at your words. Biting his inner cheek, he nods, still incapable of holding your gaze.

“Yeah, okay,” he mutters. “I’ll go. I really am sorry.”

Kazutora turns on his heel, walking towards the door. Maybe it’s the way you know he’s not coming back this time that makes your desperation afloat. You don’t want him to go and you also know you can’t make him stay. And even if somehow you could find a way to keep him by your side, it would be worthless.

He’s just not happy with you.

“Are you happy somewhere else, though?” you ask, your words leaving your mouth before your head has time to process them. He stumbles on his feet and stops. “Because if you just can’t manage to be happy, then it’s not on me.”

Kazutora doesn’t have to turn for you to know he’s second guessing himself. The next seconds feel like years as he just stands there, mid-way to the front door, thoughts so messy and loud you can almost hear them.

“That doesn’t matter,” he finally says with his back to you. He closes his fists and you see his shoulders rising and falling as he takes a deep breath. “This way you don’t have to deal with... with the mess I am and—”

“Oh, please, I knew what I was getting into when I started dating an ex-convict.”

The weight of your words fall onto you the moment they leave your mouth. You squeeze your eyes shut, muttering a curse. It takes no time for you to walk towards Kazutora, standing between him and the door.

“Shit, I’m sorry. I’m so sorry, Tora, I didn’t— you know I didn’t mean it that way. Fuck, I’m so sorry,” you whimper, tears flowing free down your cheeks. Your wave your shaky hands, desperate to make your point across. “I just wanted to say I knew things would be difficult but I loved you— I love you and I—”

Kazutora shakes his head, a gentle yet sad smile on his face as he takes your hands in his. He holds them in front of his chest, squeezing them gently as they don’t stop trembling.

“Stop, it’s okay,” he assures you. “That’s what I am.”

“It’s not,” you protest. “I mean— yeah, but you’re more than that. You’re so much more than that. You’re caring, you’re noble— you’re so tender with the animals at your shop. You’re so sweet with me, always checking if I’ve eaten and offering to help me out if I have chores I need to do. You always come pick me up if I’m working late. You— you’re so fucking special to me.”

Kazutora’s lips form a tight line. “I wish I could see that,” he whispers.

“Then just— let me try. Let me try until you can look at yourself the way I do,” you almost beg. You let go of the hold he has on your hands to gently cradle his face. “I’ll do anything, but... don’t patronize me. I’m not a little girl. Whatever life throws at me, I’ve always been able to handle it. No— we’ll handle it. Together. Like it’s always been, you and me, I just— please, I don’t want you to go,” you cry. “We were going to be happy together, you were going to live with me and I’d give you half my drawers and half my closet and half… half everything. Please, don’t go. Don’t go, Tora.”

The sadness in his amber eyes only confirms what you’ve been fearing this whole time. You sob, your thumbs softly stroking his cheeks as you feel the world crumbling around you. This time, he doesn’t stop you, letting you cry as you hold his face, coming to terms with the fact he’s really leaving after all.

Your hands move to his hair, gently threading your fingers across his long, dark locks. Tracing the outline of his face, you push one of the dyed streaks away, only for it to fall back right where it was before. You can’t help the small smile that forms on your lips. He’s so pretty, you think, as the pads of your fingers gently caress his face. Your thumb grazes the space between his bottom lip and his chin and you dream of a world when he’s not saying goodbye, but rather falling asleep under your touch on your shared bed. You never knew loving someone as much as you loved him was possible-- yet the way your heart was crumbling in pieces was evidence of how much your soul was aching by being separated from the person it belonged to.

Sniffling, you rub your cheek against your shoulder to wipe your tears. You swallow before raising another question.

“Is this a… temporary thing? Or for good?” Your voice comes out in a whisper as you place down your hands on his shoulders.

“I don’t know,” he answers. He wants nothing more than to put his arms around your body like so many times before, but he’s aware that it will only make things more difficult. “But I don’t want to keep you waiting in vain. You should move on.”

Kazutora realizes how much he hates the idea as it leaves his lips. The idea of you starting over with someone else rots in his tongue. He doesn’t want you to hold anyone’s face the way you were just holding his. He wants to keep you all to himself, to go to endless visits to the grocery shop, to watch you fall asleep during movie night and then pretend you didn’t, to massage your hands as you tell him about his day.

But you don’t deserve the guck that’s forming inside his mind. He knows it’s only a matter of time before it comes out pouring and reaches you. And he’ll be damned if he lets himself ruin the one good thing he’s had in his life for many years. He promised to himself he wouldn’t let his ill state of mind touch his loved ones. Never again.

He watches you nod and feels his heart shattering, even if everything is going just the way he intended. You rub his shoulders and look into his eyes, a sad smile on the pretty lips he would never get to kiss again.

“Okay,” you sigh. “We’ll end this but… when you leave, never doubt how loved you were. No— how loved you are. I don’t know what is coming for either of us but… I do know a part of my heart will always belong to you, no matter who I hold hands with. I will always love you, Tora.”

Your words are enough to finally break him. Kazutora clutches your body tightly against him as he loudly sobs against your shoulder. You hold him, tears flowing free once again as you try and soothe the man you love, leaving small kisses on the side of his head and whispering soft reassurances that it’s okay. It’s not, you tell yourself. It’s never going to be okay. But it has to be.

Carefully, you move him back to the sofa, helping him sit down while he refuses to let go of his hold on your body. You lean on the back pillows, both your arms cradling him while he whimpers like a small child. Kazutora clutches the fabric of your sweater with desperation, wishing there was a way he could stay with you.

Why does he have to give up the person that had put a smile back on his face? He can’t quite remember a time when his stomach had hurt out of laughter before he ever met you. Or when he’d experienced such peace as the night he stayed at your apartment and got to see your sleeping face first thing in the morning. He’s never loved anyone as much as he loves you and, for all he knows, he may never love like this again.

But he could never risk tainting you. He would never be able to forgive himself.

Kazutora softly pulls away from your embrace. His eyes are blotchy and red and you’re sure yours look the same or even worse. His nose is red, like it always does when he cries. It’s endearing, you think. Everything about him, from his hair, to his eyes, his hands— you’ve come to love every part of Kazutora. And that’s exactly why it’s so hard to let him go.

“Don’t look at me like that,” he says in a whisper, resting the side of his head on the back pillows of the sofa.

“Like what?” you ask, gently pushing his hair away from his face and behind his ear.

“Like I matter to you. Like I’m making a huge mistake.”

You take a deep breath. Imitating him, you rest your head on the back pillows as well, so you’re both facing each other.

“I don’t— I don’t fully understand what you’re going through,” you admit, your eyes locked on his. “But if you need to… get away, then you should. You’ve been nothing but loving to me. All I’ve ever wanted was for you to be happy, whether it’s with me or not. You deserve to fully experience all the beautiful things life has to offer.”

Silent tears fall from both your cheeks and his.

“I should be thankful I got to love you for this whole year. Because even if it ends this way… God, I loved you so much,” you sniffle, letting out a small laugh. “And I felt so loved. Isn’t that magical in itself? That we got to love each other at the same time?” you wonder with a sad smile.

Kazutora parts his lips, yet the doorbell interrupts him before he can even speak. You look at the front door, your eyebrows furrowing for a moment before you realize who’s probably there.

“Food’s here,” you say, wiping the tears from your face.

“Food?” Kazutora asks, confused.

“Yeah,” you sigh. “Didn’t I tell you? The baking dish broke so I called that restaurant, the one with the burgers we like.”

“Sorry. I wasn’t really listening back then,” he admits with a pang of guilt. He sits up on the couch and turns his head at you. “I’ll leave you to it, then.”

You sit up as well. “I ordered for the two of us. C’mon, stay for dinner. Let’s… remember us this way, okay? Without so many tears and sadness,” you offer, tilting your head towards him. “I even ordered your favourite one.”

Kazutora rubs his face with his sleeve, erasing the trail of the tears he just shed. Looking at you, he nods, drawing a small smile on his lips.

“Okay. I’ll get it.”

He only walks a few steps towards the door before he feels you tugging at the back of his shirt. Turning around, he notices you’re standing right behind him. Your eyes look up to him, biting your bottom lip and not even a ghost of the smile you previously offered him.

“Before that, uh— I want you to know I… I mean it,” you firmly say, taking in all his facial features, loving how they soften every time he looks at you. “I’ll always love you. No matter how many years go by or if I ever stop being in love with you— I’ll still love you.”

“I’ll always love you too,” he replies, taking your hand and squeezing it softly. “I don’t think I could stop even if I wanted to.”

You finally let out a soft chuckle and squeeze his hand back. The doorbell rings again and you walk around Kazutora to get to it. This time, he’s the one that stops you, not letting go of the hold of your hand. Looking back at him, you notice the soft pout in his lips and how they softly tremble, looming more tears.

“It’s okay,” you assure him, and you know you’re saying it to yourself as well. “Who knows, we might get together again someday. Have our own Casablanca moment. We’ll always have the pet shop,” you joke, trying to fight back to tears that threaten to fill your eyes as well.

It’s Kazutora’s turn to chuckle, only this time he does it along with you. You let go of his hand only to hold his face tenderly, a soft smile as you look at the man you love. Standing on your tiptoes, you press your lips against the beauty mark under his right eye. You feel his hands setting on the small of your back and watch his smile widen when you fall back on your heels.

Locking your fingers with him once more, you open the door.

#tokyo revengers x reader #tokrev x reader #tr x reader #kazutora x reader #hanemiya kazutora x reader #kazutora hanemiya x reader #kazutora hanemiya #hanemiya kazutora #tokyo revengers #kazutora angst #tokyo revengers angst #kazutora x you #kazutora x y/n #hanemiya kazutora x you #hanemiya kazutora x y/n

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troquantary · 3 years

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Edward Cullen: That Boy Ain’t Right

So I was doing a reread of @therealvinelle 's collection of Twilight metas, as one does, and in "Edward, Denial, and a Human Girlfriend" she mentions that she doesn't believe Edward is sane. I thought, "ha, yeah, he's definitely not," and also, "but wait, what does that mean exactly, please say more about that." But since she's already inundated with asks, I've decided to use my own head-muscle and explore this idea. (TL;DR: I start out more or less organized, synthesize some points Vinelle has made across several posts (and have hopefully linked to them all where relevant but please tell me if not), touch a little on narcissism, then take a hard left into the negative effects of being a telepath.)

Just a couple things to note at the outset, though. Theses have been written already (probably) about Edward as an abuser. Edward being insane doesn't negate that at all; he's definitely an asshole and just...a disaster of a human being. (I find it more funny than anything, but YMMV.) I'm also going to try to avoid talking specifically about mental illness and how it relates (or doesn't relate) to abusive behavior -- that's territory I'm not really equipped to discuss, like at all. My starting point is "Edward has a deeply warped perception of reality," not "Edward has X disorder."

So: deeply warped perception of reality. The evidence? Goes behind a cut, because my one character trait is Verbose.

Vinelle provides a great example of it in the post linked above, which I'll just quote because she does words good: "[Edward] keeps acting like his romance with Bella is a romantic tragedy, and all the cast of Twilight are actors on a stage making it as sublime as possible." Edward's the one to pursue Bella, but he does so with the full belief, from the very beginning, that it will never last; Bella will "outgrow" him, go on her human way, and he can spend the rest of eternity brooding magnificently over his too-short romantic bliss. [Insert premature ejaculation joke.] Turning her is never an option, even though Alice, Noted Psychic, says that romancing Bella will either end with her dead (exsanguinated) or dead (vampire).

This framing, where he's a dark anti-hero in love with -- but never tainting! -- the pure maiden and eventually leaving her in a grand, tragic sacrifice to preserve her soul? It's fucking bonkers. Bella isn't a person to him in this scenario. As Vinelle points out, Bella's never really a person to him at all; he falls in love with his own mental construct, cherry-picking from what he observes of her behavior and her responses to his 20 (thousand) Questions to convince himself that she is the ideal woman.

Bella's not the only one who gets the projection/cardboard-cutout treatment. Edward sees everything and everyone through a highly particular, personalized lens. He filters his entire reality, which we all do to an extent, but the thing with Edward is that he starts with his conclusions and then only pays attention to the evidence that supports those conclusions. Often that evidence consists of what he admits in New Moon are only "surface" thoughts -- but recognizing that limitation doesn't keep him from taking those thoughts as representative of what people are. Edward then becomes absolutely convinced by his own "reasoning" and won't be swayed from what he has decided is Objectively True. It's obvious with Bella; it's also painfully obvious with Rosalie. (Vinelle explains this and brings up Edward's raging Madonna/Whore complex in the same post, so refer to that again -- she's right.)

He also catastrophizes. Everything. Bella's just vibing in her room, rereading Wuthering Heights for the 87th time? She's gonna be hit by a meteor, better sneak into her room while she sleeps. Bella's going to the beach with the filthy mundanes their human classmates? She's gonna fall in the ocean. Jasper's cannibal pals are stopping by for a visit, but know not to hunt in the area? DISASTER, DEFCON 1, ALSO FUCK YOU JASPER FOR EVEN EXISTING IN MY AND BELLA'S SPHERE YOU UNSPEAKABLE BURDEN. Edward must believe that Bella is vulnerable and in near-constant peril, to support the reality he has created in which he is the villain turned protector and maybe?? hero??? (!!!) for his beloved. So when the actual, James-shaped danger arrives, he goes berserk, snarling and flipping his shit and generally not helping the situation. His fantasy demands that Bella remain human, so instead of doing the very thing Alice, Noted Psychic, assures him will neutralize the threat (and not just a threat to Bella, either, but to Bella's family and any other human James might decide to include in the "game"), he vetoes it immediately, no discussion. Bella Must Not Turn, and he sticks to those guns despite James nearly reducing her to ground beef, despite leaving Bella catatonic with depression (but human! success!) in New Moon, despite Aro's order and his family's vote and, let's not forget, Bella's clearly and repeatedly stated desire to be a vampire. It's going to happen. But he doesn't accept it until Renesmee busts out of Bella like the Kool-Aid man and the poor girl's heart finally, unequivocally stops.

Sane people don't behave this way. I don't want to slap labels on Edward, but I can't help but note that he comes across as highly narcissistic. He's the only real person in his universe, the lone player among us NPCs. That probably has a lot to do with him being frozen in the mindset and maturity of a seventeen-year-old boy, but I think it's also just...him, on some fundamental level. His failure to connect with others and recognize them as full, independent beings with their own wants and priorities isn't like Bella's failure -- she's badly depressed. Edward is...something else, and I get the sense that his sanity has been steadily deteriorating over time. And a cursory google of narcissistic traits turns up some familiar-looking stuff. He's self-loathing, yes, but also grandiose; he hates himself for the monster he is (and hates most vampires besides Esme and Carlisle for their monstrosity, too) but still feels superior to humans, to the extent that he felt entitled to human blood and resented Carlisle for depriving him of his "proper" diet. He eventually returns to Carlisle, but he's far from content -- the beginning of Midnight Sun finds him in a state of ennui, bored and dismissive of (if not outright disgusted by) everyone around him, that has apparently persisted for years and years. He doesn't play the piano, he doesn't compose, he doesn't enjoy anything...at least until Bella comes along and then he becomes obsessed to a disturbing degree with her and his new, romantic tragedy spin on reality.

[Next-day edit: I’m not sure where else to fit this in, but the way Edward casually contemplates violence against people who have, at best, mildly annoyed him is...chilling. I have a hard time writing off his strategizing how to murder the entire Biology class as a result of bloodlust -- it’s so calculated, nothing like the blackout state of thirst Emmett describes when he encountered his own “singer,” and that is probably the default for when a vampire is extremely thirsty. But even ignoring the Biology class incident, Edward still does things like consider, with disturbing frequency, how he might grievously injure or kill Mike Newton, all because...Edward considers him his romantic rival (despite Bella barely giving the kid the time of day). He thinks about slapping Mike through a wall, which might be an amusing slapstick image, except as a vampire Edward’s actually capable of turning this boy’s skeleton to a fine powder. So it’s, y’know, kind of sick when you think about it.

But even worse than that, when Bella tells Edward about how she flirted with Jacob to get at that sweet, sweet vampire lore, Edward chuckles and then, after dropping Bella home, flippantly observes that now that the treaty’s broken, why not genocide? I’m not even kidding, it’s right there in Midnight Sun; he seriously thinks about the fact that he’d be technically justified now in wiping out the entire tribe because a teenager tried to impress a girl with a spooky story. That is fucked. Remember, Edward was there with Carlisle when the treaty was first established. He knows how remarkable it is that they even came to a truce in the first place, that it was only ever possible because Carlisle is...well, Carlisle, and that it marks a pretty significant moment in supernatural history. He doesn’t care; he doesn’t respect it, or he’d never think something like “Ha ha, if I went and killed them all, I wouldn’t even be wrong. I mean, I won’t do it, but I’m just saying, I wouldn’t be wrong.”

Again: not the thought process or behavior of a sane person. (Or a person that respects life in general -- sorry Carlisle, big L.)]

Finally, whether he's a narcissist or not, I think the fact that Edward has constant, unavoidable access to everyone's thoughts is a powerful contributing factor to his instability. He can tune out the mental noise to an extent, but he can't stop it -- so he comes to rely on it like another sense. This causes issues with disconnect and lack of empathy, of course, but there's another facet to this shit diamond: he's basically experiencing a ceaseless flow of intrusive thoughts. His narration in Midnight Sun suggests that he "hears" the words people think, can "see" what they visualize in their mind's eye, and can sense the emotional "tone" and intensity of their thoughts. Therefore, perceiving Jasper's thirst through his thoughts makes Edward more aware of his own, "doubling" the discomfort. This would be a lot to deal with even from just his immediate coven members, but Edward gets all of this pouring into his head like a firehose on a day-to-day basis because the Cullens live right alongside humans. I know Meyerpires have galaxy brains or whatever, but that's a ton to process.

Besides the compounding effect on his own thirst when he "feels" the thirst of others, Meyer never suggests that Edward has difficulty separating his own thoughts from other people's; even when he was newly turned, he recognized Carlisle's "voice" in his head as Carlisle's. That would create a whole different host of issues around identity, but it looks like Edward's escaped that particular torment. However, I can easily imagine that what he does experience is just shy of unbearable nonetheless, with an eroding effect on his sanity over decades. He can't sleep to escape it; he's on a dishwater diet and probably (like the rest of his family) experiencing a perpetual, low-grade physical discomfort due to his thirst never being fully satisfied; and he's around far more people than is the norm for vampires -- even discounting all the humans, his own coven is unusually large -- meaning more noise.

Honestly, it would be weirder if he were all there, considering.

And even though I feel like I lost a sense of structure around where I started ranting about telepathy, I've written like 1.5k words about Edward fucking Cullen and I think that's enough for one post.

#twilight #twilight renaissance #twilight meta #edward cullen #i stared too long and the twilight abyss gazed back #long post #major credit due to therealvinelle for having basically all the ideas already #theoriginalcarnivorousmuffin too since they agree and build off each other's metas a lot #idk how people who write meta can just crank these posts out i've been here for two hours #edited to add stuff i forgot to mention about edward's disproportionately violent fantasies

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theregoesmylurkerstatus · 3 years

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So... I have a lot of thoughts on the finale. I've deliberately kept my mouth shut, more or less, on the campaign overall because I'm a firm believer that you can't pass judgement -- at least not complete judgement -- on stories until they're over and done with.

Well, it's done! Kind of crazy. I've been watching Critical Role with almost insane consistency, viewing almost every single episode live, with maybe five-ish exceptions, since episode 19, and I've been blogging it for, what, two and a half years?

It's a weird feeling. It's been such a constant thing for me that I'm always gonna have love for it and remember with a lot of fondness.

...Which is in spite of the fact that I can now comfortably say I'm pretty eh on the ending. I know not being positive about something most of us have loved a lot for a very long time can sting a bit, but I personally think it also stings when people relentlessly crow over how good they think it is or want it to be, to the point where you feel you can't voice your absolutely valid upsets or dissatisfactions. So, here goes, if anyone's interested! I'd be curious to see other opinions, too!

I actually drafted a post talking about my overall frustrations with the campaign a whole two weeks ago, and then scrapped most of it when 140 blew me out of the water. I was really touched, and really happy. I hadn't expected it, but it shockingly felt right, you know?

Unfortunately 141 robbed me of most of that satisfaction and brought me right back to neutral.

The blanket statement you have to make, of course, is that you can’t criticise this as a DnD game, and you can’t be mad at the cast for playing it in a way they think is best for them. They’re the players, Matt’s the DM, and in the end it makes no sense for them to try to make themselves act how they think the audience wants them to, and I’m sure most of the audience wouldn’t like the result anyway.

That said, there is an audience. And that’s where I see this clash coming in. As a DnD game, as long as the players and DM have all enjoyed it and been satisfied, it’s a successful game! But for us, it’s not a DnD game. For us, we’re watching a story be written in real time through the medium of an RPG. And while as a DnD game you can’t fault it, as a piece of media, I completely get why the way things have gone has sat weirdly for a lot of people.

It's not satisfying to see so many character hooks dealt with so quickly or left as an offscreen "and then you do it." If they don't want to keep playing to dive into it, absolutely, but for us who have been watching this as a story with all these character elements get so built up, it's a huge anti-climax.

Which is a lot of what this campaign has been, really.

Oh, Nott’s cursed! But through a really cool character moment that problem is completely taken care of with no consequences we see. Yay, I want her to be Veth and that was an iconic move from Jester! Still, it kind of feels like this was built up to be a big problem and at the first success it was let go... Caleb's got a really intense frightening past he tries to hide, I wonder how the Mighty Nein will respond? Oh, they found out, but it's not a difficult revelation for anyone. Looks like it's easy for them to move past it and forgive. Yeah, that's healthiest for the characters, but huh, kinda undercuts it as a storyline or point of interest. Oooh, Avantika’s back! Ah, they’ve killed her and grabbed the eye again. I mean I don’t want them to die or for Uk’otoa to be free, but I’m starting to feel like that’s not much of a threat anyway. The Traveler’s been kidnapped! Nah he hasn’t, he tried to save Jester so he was let go with no further issue, and also he wasn’t actually in any danger anyway. Oh... Cool. So... Why should I care or be worried?

And these are just the biggest ones I remember being kind of let down by. I wanted to see them STRUGGLE for the successes to have meaning. To my view, threats of failure -- real failure -- really decreased the more the campaign went on, with a few exceptions.

Because don't get me wrong, we've definitely had struggles, and those have made for some of the best moments! Molly’s death, Yasha’s kidnapping, Yeza’s imprisonment. When failures that were threatened are allowed to occur, it’s far more gratifying when it’s followed by success, because you understand that that success was actually necessary. It shows us that what they do really means something.

Honestly, that's why the final battle really shut me up, because nothing makes you quite feel stakes and failure like having two PCs die, and having a resurrection ritual fail -- AND knowing that failure would be delivered on, had it not been for a seemingly miraculous roll of the dice to turn it around. One of the greatest failure's -- Molly's death -- made the success of his resurrection put a lot of my other issues to rest immediately, because to be honest? Molly's resurrection was the biggest success of the campaign, exactly because it was originally the biggest failure.

But this episode, we got to see the other side of making threats and successes feel disappointing -- when you get the impression that success was robbed from you. Again, their characters, their choices, but to have them roll an intervention to get Molly's soul, to convince Molly to come back with his own possessions they've so loved, after so long and so many struggles... only to apparently not get Molly at all?

Changed, of course. Memories, maybe he'd never get them back, though that seems inconsistent to how the initial resurrection was played and Matt's hints. It even makes sense that not having his memories and being a bit different, he might forge a new identity, but insisting Molly was a different person entirely after such a supposed hard won success to get Molly back, especially after what his death meant to the audience and potentially healing that old wound? It robs the narrative of a LOT of catharsis, at least for me and I know many others.

Trent, too, I'm very up and down on. He was so built up -- and what fun that build up had -- and I very much disagreed with the idea that the best story would be dealing with him offscreen.

It's true that you don’t need to explicitly address, confront, or explore every big aspect of character's story hooks and background ties for PCs to move past them and grow healthily. But that does not make it a satisfying viewing experience. People quietly healing in real life is healthy. People quietly healing in an explosive fantasy setting is frustrating for the audience.

What on earth is the point of a story if you don’t get to SEE THE ESTABLISHED CONFLICTS go anywhere? A lot of the characters got distant, quiet resolutions, if that, to everything we wanted to see.

Except, we did get to see Trent. It was a really fun, inventive battle, from opening to conclusion, but much like Travelercon, much like Nott's/Veth's problem with the hag, these were things that the audience in general wanted to see be really dug into and explored, and every single one of them got, in my opinion, quickly tidied up instead. Trent got beaten in the first and only proper battle they had with him, which, after all his build up, is pretty disappointing for a villain many of us wanted to see be a big deal. It really just felt like they were trying to tidy up to get on with the epilogue, which is not what a lot of us were looking for with Trent especially.

And that's how most of their endings felt to me. It didn't feel like any of them had reached a comfortable conclusion. Literally all of them, bar Veth and Caduceus, continued on their character journey threads, without each other and very quickly. Meeting Yasha's tribe and Vandran, Caleb finally openly debating changing time for his parents, Trent and Zeenoth's trials and the changing of the guard at the Assembly... All were things it would have been so fun to have all the PCs react to and explore together, and instead they were fleeting encounters in the latter half of a seven hour finale.

Is all this, from Molly not really coming back to Trent being a finale side plot to the Nein continuing on their individual journeys, potentially realistic to how these fantastical things might go down in real life? Sure! But that's not necessarily a good thing.

Stories THRIVE on conflict and resolution. That’s what makes them FUN! Conflict isn’t nearly so fun in real life and resolutions are often frustrating question marks, so no, past a certain point I don’t WANT stories to be realistic. I want stories to be SATISFYING.

And campaign 2 has fallen far short of the mark.

I haven’t spoken... Basically a word of this for most of the campaign, because as I said I’m a firm believer that you can’t necessarily judge something until it’s over, and because I ALSO firmly believe that being negative WHILE trying to enjoy something is counterproductive. I have had no interest in spoiling or naysaying the fun of the campaign for anyone, least of all myself.

But it's done now, and all I can say is... I really have had fun. I love the characters. I love their relationships. I’m pretty okay with where they’ve ended up. I’m not mad, really, and I’m still going to think of this campaign with a lot of affection. But it hasn’t been a satisfying story, even though for a week following episode 140 I thought, despite all the brushed over story threads, it might be.

So... to try and reclaim some of that satisfaction for myself, I might ignore some aspects of the finale proper. Namely Kingsley specifically. Taliesin's choice -- but to me, it's pretty clear that who we saw at the end of 140 was Molly, and the tags on my posts will reflect that, just as my 141 tags will be for both Kingsley and Molly, for clarity's sake. I personally want to believe Molly did come back, however others might want to interpret it. The victory in 140 that meant so much to me is hollow otherwise, and it just kind of hurts that we would lose Molly after everything. I was okay with him being dead -- I'm not so okay with his resurrection being stolen.

Kingsley will always be canon, but Molly is what I choose to acknowledge. I get if you don't like that take, and that's okay! I didn't care for canon's in the end. That's the good thing about storytelling, is that no one can stop you from making your own versions.

For the people who are hopefully hyped for campaign 3, heck yeah have fun! I’m on the fence. My investment, which... I think I can objectively say was pretty substantive as this blog will attest, doesn't feel rewarded, so I’m not convinced I can faithfully keep up for over three years all over again with a strong possibility that I will once again be left disappointed. It's been a huge chunk of my life, and... yeah!

I’ll take a break, probably, view (and liveblog, if people want!) campaign 1 when I’ve had a mental stretch and vacation, and then... I might start campaign 3. I definitely won’t be able to put the same time in it I did campaign 2 (my first love no matter what), knowing that it’s likely to not be so vindicated, in the end.

I swear I’m actually writing this in fairly good humour, but I totally get its always disappointing when the people you come to for fandom enjoyment just aren't sharing your fun. Honestly I’m half tempted to write all those frigging AUs I have sitting around! But I wanted to say my piece, and try and logically outline why this ending has been lacklustre for so many people, ultimately myself included.

Episode 140 felt right because it felt like a natural conclusion -- these disparate people coming together and finally being whole, finally soothing the hurt that MADE them so long ago. Episode 141 spat on that sentiment -- they all scattered to the winds, not as happy people to live out their dreams, but as confused people chasing up loose threads towards an unknown future, with the friend they thought returned still lost to them, ultimately.

It doesn't feel like the ending we should have gotten for the Mighty Nine, who were finally, finally all together. Until they weren't. So to me? I choose to acknowledge that they were, even if I have to force it to happen post-epilogue in my head.

#critical role #cr spoilers #c2e141 #c2e140 #ramblings #long post #first time i've used that tag but i figure people should be able to block this if they want to!#molly #kingsley #trent ikithon #the mighty nein

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dailylogyn · 3 years

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Logyn Meta: Loki & Sigyn’s Relationship in Mythology

It’s a classic tale, and arguably one of the most famous in mythology: How Sigyn held a bowl above her lover’s head to shield Loki from the snake’s venom, in turn, holding back Ragnarok a little longer.

But how did Loki and Sigyn come to be married? How did they meet? How did they fall in love?

With so many questions, but few answers we are left with in what has survived with the stories today, we are often left to ponder how the story of Loki and Sigyn came to be. As have many others before me, I will be exploring my thoughts with what information we are given to ponder as to how these two lovers became a thing.

To answer this question, we must go back to the beginning where Sigyn was first introduced to us in the mythologies, presenting the ONLY information we know about their relationship -- specifically: The Poetic Edda & Prose Edda.

In the poem, Lokasenna, the most famous of poem’s with the couple, it talks of how Loki has been bound by the gods with the guts of his son, Nari, and how his son, Vari, has been turned into a wolf. The Goddess Skadi fastens a venomous snake over Loki’s face, from which venom drips. Sigyn, stated as Loki’s wife, stays by his side and holds a basin under and catches the venom so it won’t drip onto her husband, but when the basin grows full, she pulls it away to empty it, during which time venom drops onto Loki, causing him to wither so violently that earthquakes occur that shake the entire earth.

In the poem, Gylfaginning, Sigyn is introduced in Chapter 31 as being married to Loki and that they have a son by the name of “Narfi or Nari”. She is then mentioned again in Chapter 50 where events are described differently than in Lokasenna; Vali, described as a son of Loki only, is changed into a wolf by the gods and rips apart his brother, “Narfi or Nari.” The guts of Nari are then used to tie Loki to three stones, after which the guts turn to iron, and Skadi places a snake above Loki. Sigyn of course catches the venom in a bowl. This process is repeated until he breaks free, setting Ragnarok into motion.

In the poem, Skáldskaparmál, Sigyn is introduced as a goddess, an Æsir, where the gods are holding a feast for their visitors and in kennings for Loki: “husband of Sigyn” and “cargo [Loki] of incantation-fetter’s [Sigyn’s] arms.”

Now, knowing the little knowledge we have on their relationship, it’s time to explore it from the Viking’s point of view, which is where this all pretty much originated from, in order to understand it better.

Viking Way of Love and Life

I’m no expert in this category, in fact, I’m still learning about it as I go, but there are some important key things to note here about the Viking’s POV on things and how it ties into Loki & Sigyn’s relationship.

Divorce was completely acceptable in Viking Times. In fact, women could own property, request a divorce and reclaim dowries if a marriage ended. She could divorce him for a good number of reasons actually.

Women often remained faithful to their husbands, although they were known to have extramarital sex. If they were caught cheating by the husbands, it usually ended pretty badly for the women.

A Man couldn’t marry his concubine, so his wife wouldn’t have to feel threatened about competition. They usually all lived in the same household. Adultery concerning the husband was okay, but not the wife.

Vikings didn’t categorize people as homosexual, bisexual, straight or etc.They differentiated between submissive and dominant roles in sexual relationships. Homosexuality was acceptable with limits.

Poetry was a big part of Courtship.

Typically marriage was usually for alliances, set up by families and parents. However, this doesn’t mean there wasn’t romance or love between couples or potential marriages.

Family life was important to Norse Men and people usually aimed to survive: typically by marrying and having children.

How does this apply to Loki and Sigyn? Now, let’s dive into the typical hypothesis of their relationship. I call it a typical hypothesis because it hasn’t really been outright pointed out in the mythologies, but it’s something the Mythology community usually agrees on concerning Loki and Sigyn’s relationship from what we know here.

A Hypothesis into Loki & Sigyn’s Marriage

The marriage between the two of them alone is usually questioned by others, especially concerning Loki’s chaotic nature and Sigyn’s undying loyalty. Obviously, she could have divorced him whenever she wanted to if things were bad, but instead she remains by his side which leads us to the fact, not only does she truly love Loki, but she also knows more to him than we do -- as if there is a secret hidden side to the god of Mischief.

It is sometimes implied that the marriage between Loki and Sigyn was an arranged one to establish position in Asgard -- as marriages typically were in Viking Times. This doesn’t mean there wasn’t love between them, In fact, it could have been a perfectly arranged marriage.

Sigyn isn’t blind to Loki’s flaws, knowing perfectly well how her lover is and accepting him flaws and all -- unlike the other gods. It’s more than likely she knows about his other children: Jormungandr, Sleipnir, Hel and Fenrir, just as she probably knows about his affair with Angrboda. Again, this wasn’t an uncommon thing in Viking Times for a man to have another lover and other children with them.

Loki is very much a family person, just as he enjoys having fun. There has never been anything alluding to him abandoning his family or abusing Sigyn and his kids despite what pop culture or other versions may say. Instead, they have been taken away from him by others in someway (ex: Vali having to kill Narvi as the gods use his insides as Loki’s bindings. Odin taking away all of Loki’s children, making Hel the ruler of the underworld, Jory the serpent of Midgard’s sea and Fenrir locked in bonds. Lets also not forget Sleipnir becoming Odin’s horse and most of his children dying during Ragnarok because of said gods. Sigyn’s whereabouts are unknown and Angrboda is dead. Case in point: I’d wanna start Ragnarok too.)

Vikings typically used motifs or symbolism with their writings. This is where the “opposites attract/compliment each other aka Balance of nature’ comes into play. While Loki is outright known as a Trickster God, hence the God of Mischief (which is typically harmless pranks or fun), but it usually ends with bad results for him, turning into Chaos. And what’s the opposite of Chaos? Constancy and Order. Although it isn’t outright stated, she is pointed out as Loki’s loyal wife and seems to offer that Constancy to his Chaos. Hence, some of us refer to them as “Different Sides of the Same Coin.”

Conclusion

Loki and Sigyn’s relationship is typically misunderstood by others nowadays thanks to how little information we have on them in the texts, some peoples own interpretations of their relationship (*coughs* MARVEL COMICS *coughs*) and how much Sigyn still remains to be unknown by others.

I believe that if their relationship was to be portrayed in the proper way, taking everything here into note and not given to writers who don’t understand or refuse to take the time to understand their relationships/characters, they might actually be understood better overall. A good example of this I’ve found myself is from the German Movie: Mara and the Firebringer and Neil Gaiman’s book: Norse Mythology. They both explore Loki and Sigyn’s relationship in a proper light, not undermining either of them and exploring their thought process and actions in ways that only strength their relationship and one another as individual characters bonded together in marriage.

Bonus mention to The Bifrost Incident by The Mechanisms for their interpretation of Loki and Sigyn’s relationship as well.

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SOURCES:

Viking Love: 8 Facts about Love and Love making from the Vikings - https://historycollection.com/eight-facts-love-marriage-viking-style/

The Love Life of the Vikings - https://historyofyesterday.com/love-life-of-vikings-f21c9ed58d4e

Norse Mythology Character Tropes - https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Characters/NorseMythology

Mara and the Firebringer TV Tropes (SPOILERS BEWARE) - https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Film/MaraAndTheFirebringer

Neil Gaiman’s Norse Mythology (Book) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norse_Mythology_(book)

The respective Edda’s are linked above by their names.

#logyn #norse mythology #sigyn #loki #Constancy & Chaos (Logyn)#loki x sigyn #loki and sigyn #logyn meta #the bifrost incident #mara and the firebringer

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sketching-shark · 3 years

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LMK fandom: Oh, what do we do about this guy who has nothing but hurt Xiaotian, tried to replace Sun Wukong and his crew, hurt Tripitaka and ordered servants to cannibalize a monkey? Oh I know! We’ll turn him into our little meow meow~ he’s so innocent and Sun Wukong is obviously the villain!

What doesn’t help is this idea is perpetuated by multiple fan fic writers and artists for some reason. Especially some aus they make that turn SWK into a bastard for the sake of the story rather than considering cultural context and thinking they should be respectful.

And almost everyone lets them get away with it just because the art or fanfic is good and they get so popular that no one can point what is actually wrong without feeling like they’re going to get attacked.

I'm starting to feel like my blog is the one anons go to specifically to vent their frustrations about the Six Eared Macaque in his lego monkey show form & the associated fandom lmao. But I guess this makes sense, as I’ve had fun quasi-dragging him before & will in fact use this anon submission as an opportunity to have my own, to put it academically, bitch fest about not just this fandom's favorite protagonist-traumatizing meow meow, but about the way villains are often treated in not just fanon, but increasingly in canon works as well. But same policy as with the last anon; I'll post my opinions below the cut, and as fandoms love to say, don’t like don't read if you don't want to see me dunking on the six eared simian & common fandom tendencies towards villains.

Oh man I would say where would you even begin with this but anon you’ve pretty much started yourself with my main gripe with a lot of ways that the Six-Eared Macaque is portrayed in fandom; there seems to be this unspoken agreement that his acts of violence towards Sun Wukong, Qi Xioatian, and Qi Xioatian’s loved ones are either to be framed as somewhat or totally justified, to be immediately forgiven/excused, or to simply & completely be ignored. Like friends maybe this is just me not seeing the proper posts but while the fandom is inundated with art and fanfics of Macaque as a generally decent individual & a true member of team good guy, I have yet to see one person address the fact that this monkey literally kidnapped & mind-controlled Xiaotian’s best friend and father figures & forced them to brutalize Xiaotian while ol’ Six Ear looked on and laughed (X_X). Like this kind of fandom villain treatment is definitely not something that’s solely at work for Monkie Kid, but it is kind of nutty how fandoms will swing between yelling that people should be allowed to like villains without even mild critique, and then will just flat-out not address the villainous behavior, and will even bend over backwards to frame even characters who committed genocide as just poor innocent widdle victims who need a hug. At its worst, I’ve even seen tons of people in a fandom get really angry at other people who don’t like a villain, and will even start accusing those people of hating real-life mentally disabled or abused individuals all because they don’t like the fandom’s favorite literal war criminal. The Monkie Kid fandom is FAR more chill & better than a lot of other fandoms I’ve come across in that regard, but that is an exceedingly low bar, & the tendency to woobify certain kinds of villains-- as with Macaque and the extreme emphasis on his bad boy/sad boy thing--is very much at work.

I’ve also talked before about a kind of monoculturalization of certain character interpretations and story beats in fandoms, and one of the more popular ones that seems to be applied to Macaque a lot is the “hero actually bad, villain actually good” cliche, as observable from the general fandom assumption that Mr. Six-Ears he wasn’t even slightly lying or remembering things through a rose-tinted or skewed lens when he gave his version of his and Sun Wukong’s past. Like at this point it seems the possibility that people WILL NOT even consider is that Sun Wukong never did & still doesn't care that much about the Six Eared Macaque (in JTTW they weren’t sworn brothers & in Monkie Kid the only thing the monkey king really said to Macaque before attacking him was a pretty contemptuous "Aren't you ever going to get sick of living under my shadow?," & responds to his "beloved friend" getting blown up with "You did good, bud" to Qi Xiaotian, who did the exploding), or that their original fight may in fact have mostly been instigated by Macaque. After all, to repeat what this anon summarized & what I've said before about their original JTTW context (& in an example of the things that do feel like it's often lost in translation) is that the Six Ear Macaque was a villain not just because he beat up the Tang Monk, but because he wanted to take over Sun Wukong's entire life and identity so he could have all that glory, prestige, and power for himself. To quote the macaque himself from the Anthony C. Yu translation, "I struck the T'ang monk and I took the luggage...precisely because I want to go to the West all by myself to ask Buddha for the scriptures. When I deliver them to the Land of the East, it will be my success and no one else's. Those people of the South Jambudvipa Continent will honor me then as their patriarch and my fame will last for all posterity." And in order to do this, the Six Eared Macaque had apparently made Sun Wukong's "little ones," his monkey family, his captives through either trickery or force, and gotten a number of them to take on the appearance of Tang Sanzang and the other pilgrims. It's also made clear that in very direct contrast to Sun Wukong, he doesn't care about these monkeys beyond how they might serve him. In fact, after Sha Wujing kills the monkey posing as him the Six Eared Macaque not only all but immediately replaces him with another, but also "told his little ones to have the dead monkey skinned. Then his meat was taken to be fried and served as food along with coconut and grape wines." So this monkey is not only willing to risk the lives of a lot of other monkeys for his own personal benefit, but is also a literal cannibal. And yes yes, I know a lot of people have argued that Monkie Kid shouldn't be considered a direct sequel to JTTW & that's fair enough (for example, Sun Wukong probably shouldn't be smashing anyone into a meat patty in a children's cartoon lol). And of course, it needs to be noted that there are a buttload of really out there & really cursed pieces of media based on JTTW & that were created in China. Yet the above description is the oft-ignored in the west original facet of the Six Eared Macaque's character. And it is this selfishness, entitlement, and treatment of other individuals as tools for his own self-serving ends that is, from where I’m standing, still very much present in Monkie Kid. Like besides repeatedly going out of his way to physically and psychologically traumatize Xioatian, with the last episode Macaque seemed to be going right back to his manipulative ways. I’ve seen people frame their last conversation as Macaque softening to Xioatian a little bit, but personally that read a lot more like that common tactic among abusers where even after they’ve hurt you they’ll dangle something you want or need over your head (in Macaque’s case, the promise of desperately needed training and information about a serious looming threat), with the implication that you’ll only get it if you do what they want you to, such as, in this case, Xioatian going back to Macaque as his student even after having been so terribly hurt by this monkey, which would give Macaque power over Xiaotian and probably Sun Wukong as a result. And it is this violence and manipulation that it seems the fandom at large has tacitly decided shouldn’t even be addressed, instead leaning more towards a (and this is an exaggeration) “Six-Eared Macaque my poor meow meow Sun Wukong has always been bad & has always been wrong about literally everything” reading.

And while it is the case that I am not Chinese and feel that as such it would be best left to someone who actually comes from that background to provide more context into how common interpretations of the Six Eared Macaque from China may clash really badly with the stuff the western fandom creates, it also must be noted that, as much as we all want to have fun in fandom & in spite of all the out-there versions of JTTW from China, we westerners should recognize that there is a very long and very ugly history of western countries stripping other cultures’ important religious and literary works for parts & mashing them into their own thing while implying or even insisting that what they present provides a true understanding of the original piece. And while I trust most individuals in regards to Monkie Kid are able to step back and think “this is a lego cartoon and not a set guide for how I should understand JTTW” (especially given the insistence that JTTW and Monkie Kid should be considered there own separate works) there does nevertheless seem to be something of a tendency to take the conclusions people come to, for example, about Sun Wukong’s characteristic in his lego form & then assume that’s just reflective to Sun Wukong as a totality. I imagine a good portion of this is due to people not reading JTTW & especially to not having easy access to solid information or answers about JTTW’s many different facets (like geez awhile ago I was trying to get a clear answer on what is considered the most accurate translation of the names of Sun Wukong’s six sworn brothers & got like 5 different responses lmao), but that tendency to take a western fandom interpretation & run with it instead of doing any background research or questioning said interpretation is still very much at play. As such, & as made prominent in the way people have been interpreting the dynamic between Sun Wukong and the Six Eared Macaque in the lego monkey show, tbh it does seem kind of shitty for western creators & audience to sometimes go really out of their way to ignore all of this original cultural & narrative context for the sake of Angst (TM) in Macaque's favor, demonizing Sun Wukong, and shipping the monkey king with his evil twin (X_X).

And speaking of which, even beyond the potential inherent creepiness & revulsion that can be inspired by this specific ship given common interpretations of the og classic's original meaning (again, it's my understanding, given both summaries of translated Chinese academic texts I've been kindly provided with, my own reading of the Anthony C. Yu translation of JTTW, & vents from a number of Chinese people I've seen on this site, that the Six-Eared Macaque is commonly interpreted in China as having originated from Sun Wukong himself as a living embodiment of his worst traits, hence why only Buddha can tell the difference between them & why the monkey king is much more slow to violence after he kills the macaque), I'd argue that in the face of all the uwu poor widdle meow meow portrayals lego show Macaque is, especially if you include JTTW's events, still in the role of “Sun Wukong but worse” as he is very much a violent & selfish creep. Like he was basically running around in JTTW wearing a Sun Wukong fursuit, but there he had the sole reason of wanting to replace Sun Wukong wholesale so he could have all the good things in the monkey king's life without actually having to work as hard for them. But if you combine that with Macaque now claiming that he used to be best friend with Sun Wukong in his pre-journey days (something that's made funny from a JTTW context given that that status actually belongs to the Demon Bull King lol), his original violence has now blown into this centuries long and really unhealthy obsession with the monkey king. Like he's apparently gone from wanting to literally be Sun Wukong to being so obsessed with getting revenge on Sun Wukong that he's got basically nothing else going on in his life. Like he's only appeared in two episodes but...does he have any friends? Any family? A career or even a hobby that DOESN'T center the monkey king? Anything at all outside of his "get revenge on and/or kill Sun Wukong/use his successor as my personal punching bag” thing? Like dude! That is extremely creepy and extremely bad for everyone all around! As I’ve said before, this seeming refusal to see beyond the past or to do something that doesn’t involve Sun Wukong in some capacity is a trait that makes Macaque an interesting and somewhat tragic villain--he even seems to be working as Sun Wukong’s reflection in a mirror darkly, with lego show Sun Wukong pretty clearly not being able to heal from his own past which is hinted to be defined by one loss after another, and with Monkie Kid even kind of having these two characters somewhat follow their JTTW characterizations in that in the latter half of the journey Sun Wukong often gets sad & starts crying in the face of what seems insurmountable odds (& Monkie Kid Sun Wukong does seem to be hiding some serious depression behind a cheerful facade), whereas the Six-Eared Macaque retains a worse version of Sun Wukong’s pre-journey characteristic of getting pissed and lashing out if things don’t go his way--but it’s also what would make any current friendship or romantic relationship between these monkeys horrific. Although to be fair even the fandom seems to recognize this in an unconscious way, in that a lot of the art & fanfic seems to swing erratically between them kissing & screaming at each other in yet another example of bog-standard fandom adulation of romanticized toxic relationships lol.

At the end of the day, of course, this is nothing new. You'll find versions of this dynamic across a ton of fandoms and now even canonical work. And as such, I can only look at this kind of popularized relationship dynamic with a kind of resigned weariness whenever it pops up, & my frustrated question with the popularity of this kind of pairing is the exact same one that I have for a multitude of blatantly toxic villain/hero ships, given common fandom discourse & the tendency to either ignore or justify the villain's actions & demonize the hero: if you're THAT convinced that everything is the hero's fault, if you believe THAT much that the hero is the one in the wrong for the villain's pain and their subsequent actions, then why are you so set on them not only becoming a romantic pair, but framing this get-together as a good thing? Like I know we contain multitudes but that's waaay too many contradictions for me to wrap my head around. And it definitely doesn’t help that one branch of underlying reasoning behind this kind of pairing seems to be the ever-present “you break it, you fix it” mentality, where the assumption is that if you’re in a failing, abusive, and/or generally toxic relationship (platonically or romantically), if you put in enough time and effort & attempts to compromise, you’ll be able to restore/have the relationship you dreamed of, even with someone who hurt you really badly. And this assumption isn’t limited to fandom: I’d even argue that it’s everywhere in the culture, hence why a lot of people feel like they “failed” if they have to get a divorce or make the choice to leave an unhealthy friendship. Personally, I feel like people could really benefit from more stories about how it is not only the case that the people you hurt don’t owe you their forgiveness & you can still become a better and happier person without the one you hurt in your life, & that while it can be really hard it can also be a good thing to leave a relationship, even if it’s one that once meant a lot to you.

But in all honestly, from my own perspective this kind of pairing is starting to read far less like enemies to lovers and far more like a horrible fantasy where you can pull whatever shit you want, even on the people you "love," & never be held accountable for your terrible behavior or even have to consider that maybe you were in the wrong. It's another facet that makes me larf every time I see people insist that fandom is an inherently "transformative" or "progressive" form of storytelling like friends you are literally just taking status quo toxic monogamy & rebranding it as somehow beneficial & romantic (X_X).

But as to anon’s last frustration, it is hard to know what is the appropriate response with this kind of thing...like for my own part I’m keeping my frustrations to my blog & now increasingly to posts that you would have to click on the “read more” button to see what I have to say, but I totally get the hesitation to give even a mild critique to big names in a fandom. Like I've now seen it happen repeatedly where someone who has a big name in a fandom will make something that's kind of shitty for one reason or another, someone will message them with some version of "hey, that's kind of shitty, you shouldn't do that," and the typical response is either to blatantly ignore the issue completely, or more popularly to make a giant crying circus that seems deliberately geared towards stoking emotions on both sides of the, for example, fiction does/doesn't affect reality issue so that something that didn't even have to be that big a deal gets blown out of all proportion, with the big name often framing what often started out as a very mild critique into a long crying jag about how the initial response to their kind of shitty thing was so mean/cruel and they're just a poor innocent & that YOU'RE the true racist/sexist/bigot etc. if you don't agree with their opinion. It must of course be noted that there have also been numerous instances of people taking it too far the other way & sending not just big names but smaller creators literal deaths threats over stuff like innocuous ships which like holy hell bells people that’s a horrible thing to do. But for the big names at least, the end result of all this fighting is usually that once the dust has settled they have more attention/fame/money/power in the fandom than before, and with anyone who might have a problem with their stuff feeling afraid to voice their opinion lest they be swarmed by that person's fans. In that way fandom does often seem to increasingly be geared towards presenting an “official” fandom perspective about various facets of a piece of media instead of allowing for a multitude of interpretations, and with criticism, no matter its shape or form or how genuinely warranted it may be, being hounded out of existence. I feel like a lot of this could be made less bad if there wasn’t this constant assumption & even drive to think that a different interpretation of or criticism of your favorite work of fiction or your fanwork isn’t a direct claim that you are a thoroughly loathsome individual (& maybe also if people cultivated an enjoyment of learning things about important works from a culture outside their own, even if what you learn clashes with your own initial understandings), but I guess we’ll see if that ever happens.

So these are my general thinks about the Six Eared Macaque’s current fandom meow meow status & some of my bigger gripes with fandom tendencies as a whole. I stand by my idea that the most interesting & beneficial route for Macaque moving forward would be a kind of “redemption without forgiveness from the ones you hurt” arc--as I think was done pretty excellently with the character Grace in Infinity Train--and if for no other reason than gosh dern this monkey really needs to cultivate some sort of identity beyond his “Sun Wukong but worse” persona.

#lmk macaque #monkie kid macaque #6 eared macaque #monkie kid #lmk sun wukong #qi xiaotian #lmk monkey king #sun wukong #monkey king #journey to the west #jttw #fandom criticism #lmk

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