I'm so tired of people treating Kieran like he's manipulating the player or whatever like HE'S A CHILD!!! Also I'm tired of people saying people who don't like how Carmine treated him just hate low empathy people and women like. She gets better! I love the other parts of her character! But you can't deny that she infantilizes Kieran and blames his genuine distress from being wronged on "teen angst" as well as the obvious "at least I didn't hit him" line. You can't deny that her mistreatment of him is what leads him astray. She has every right to be angry and abrasive to tourists, but the way she takes it out on her brother obviously harmed him. No, Kieran doesn't see Ogerpon as an object - he just clings to those who he believes understand him and wants to feel like he belongs. He's not evil. He's a mentally struggling young teen who clings to any semblance of acceptance in his life and believes he was wronged by the person he trusted.

No, people are not ableist or misogynistic for saying Carmine's actions were harmful and caused emotional pain. No, comparing her hate to the likes of how fans treated Nemona is not fair. Yes they're wrong for narrowing her down to a one-dimensional abuser who can never be redeemed. But it's okay to acknowledge that she's hurting her brother. She's not evil for it. She's a mentally struggling teen/young adult whose struggles seep into how she treats the people she cares about.