#YJ Meta
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One of the most fundamentally interesting things to me about YJ and writing fic, specifically, is how the blame changes hands depending on the story. On whose perspective you're writing from. On whose story it is at a given moment. The very thing I dislike about viewers missing the point becomes so fascinating to me from within the narrative. Who are these characters when seen through the eyes of their peers?
Who does Jackie become? If you're Shauna, she's the love of your life, and your greatest rival, and the other half of your soul, and the person you blame for your dead dreams. If you're Van, she's the respected captain who earns none of your respect in the woods, the one who left you to die without blinking, the easiest target for teenage malice. If you're Natalie, she's competition for affection, the blabbermouth who can't leave well enough alone, the hands putting themselves to no good use. If you're Jackie? You're just a girl. You're so tired. You're so scared. You're losing face a little more every day, and you're made of despair, and you can't even trust your best friend. It's not your fault. It's not your fault. It's not your fault.
Who does Lottie become? If you're Natalie, she's your direct foil, the splinter under the edge of your thumbnail, the smart mouth to match your own, the confusing amalgamation of normal friend and mad ritual. If you're Misty, she's the first shred of obvious power in months, a leader who might need to be nudged back into line, a fascinating exercise in hitching your wagon to the right star early on. If you're Taissa, she's flat-nuts and endlessly frustrating, she's got your girlfriend's full attention, she's incredibly dangerous. If you're Lottie? You're just a girl. You're so tired. You're so scared. You've built a pedestal you can't keep your balance on, and you're not sure if you're right or going crazy, and you didn't want this. It's not your fault. It's not your fault. It's not your fault.
From outside the narrative, there is no bad guy. There is no blame. It is no one's fault. It is Man v. Nature, they are doing the best they can with an impossible situation. They're all trying to contribute what they can to the story, for better or worse.
From inside the narrative, you are a teenager trapped in a society constructed entirely of bare-bones-survival with the wildest assortment of girls. From inside the narrative, to stay human, you have to love and fight, respect and judge. Every story changes the game. Every story shifts the blame. A hero in one has the bloodiest hands in the next. And that, to me, is such a thrilling sandbox to play in.
#yellowjackets#yj meta#the piece i'm working on right now is the objective weirdest in terms of van seeing her peers#and i did that very much on purpose. and we'll see after the edits how well it gets across#but it's one of the first times where a van POV allows for NOT trusting lottie#which is fundamentally against canon code#and it's interesting as hell to me to play with. in what contexts would van NOT trust lottie#in what contexts would any of these girls trust or distrust or fall in love with or want to kill one another#how much of that is already present in canon. how small do the changes need to be. twist the dial. see what happens#they're NOT villains. they're NOT heroes. they're just kids. they're just people.#it's not their fault but they won't necessarily see it that way and i love it
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not to be that guy but i don't doubt there are too many y*llowjackets fans that are just cryptoterfs, hope they kill themselves but gets me they're passing their text posts as normal things to say about womanhood like it's not bioessentialism lol, and then ignorant fans go on and rewrite the same bullshit, only now in their own words, girl it was rotten and not in a useful way before you shat it out..... think please... think....
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yeah, if 6 teenage girls and 1 teenage boy had emerged from the Canadian wilderness after 19 months with a 1 year old baby in tow, there would've been no escaping the media hellstorm. They would've been on 20/20 within 3 months. One group interview and a few candids of Shauna holding the baby would've been the price they'd all have had to pay in order to be left tf alone because while in 2023 society pretends to care about trauma, PTSD, and teens' mental health, this was the 90s--when Nicole Brown Simpson was blamed for her own murder, Lorena Bobbit was a late-night punchline, R. Kelly marrying 15 y/o Aalyiah was an open secret, grown men were calling into radio stations to speculate on 16 y/o Britney Spears' virginity, and Monica Lewinsky was doxxed and getting death threats for sucking off Bill Clinton.
What I'm saying is:
Seven teens (the girls + Travis) surviving against the odds for 19 months is the epilogue to a tragedy with enough unanswered questions to keep true crime nerds speculating & reporters digging.
But them being found with an infant? Had it come out that one of the girls was pregnant and gave birth during the ordeal? That's mainstream tabloid fodder. The kind that not even "papers of repute" would turn their noses up at. Barbara Walters, Lesley Stahl, and Mike Wallace would be beating each other and TMZ down to get the first interview, the first photo of the baby. NBC would've backed a U-Haul full of money onto the Shipman's, the Martinez', and the Sadecki's front yard (because speculation as to who the actual father really was would be kept going until it came directly from the source). Did she know she was pregnant when she got on the plane? Who else knew? What was it like giving birth? Did any of the other girls get pregnant? How many of the girls did Travis do it with? Weren't any of them afraid of the same thing happening to them? Did doing it help them cope?
And it wouldn't just be the media. Doctors, child development specialists, psychologists, sociologists, and academics would be calling non-stop to get Shauna and the baby to participate in clinical trials and studies.
The only way they'd have been left alone is if they'd done a televised interview and ended it by pleading to be allowed to go on with their lives in peace
#shauna shipman#wilderness baby#yellowjackets meta#yj meta#yj s2#yellowjackets#idk what the point here is. the thought just came to me
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do you have any favorite dp or young justice fics you would recommend to your readership? or even fics outside of those two fandoms.
thank you! deathly weapons is one of my favorite things to read- and i especially love reading your meta on the subject- so anything you’ve read that you think is great/ has an interesting premise would be cool to see.
(Young Justice: Deathly Weapons)
💜🤍🖤 Thank you as well!
I’m always astounded and delighted when people tell me they're rereading Deathly Weapons or anything else I wrote. To me, one of the elements of a good story is it being something that you can return to, and it’s lovely to hear that I’m doing something right on that front.
(Also I’m just so humbled that you would give my story your time like that. I put a fair bit of my own time into Deathly Weapons, but that’s still a little piece of your life in return and it’s just… amazing.)
For me writing and meta are things that kind of ouroboros together. I tend to engage with stories in a very inquisitive/ interrogative way - I want to understand the characters/ events/ world it’s trying to create as well as the mechanics behind the curtain - and I have a special place in my heart for stories that were constructed with enough thought to reward that kind of curiosity. Which then reflects in my own writing and the behind-the-scenes planning work I do to make sure things hold up to inspection by other puzzlers.
3WD's Meta Collection
Danny Phantom
Maddie & Jack | Vlad | Tucker | The trouble with Sam (+ follow ups)
The Asexual Appeal | Reboot Thoughts | Ageswap AU
Young Justice Season 1 (and also DW)
Let’s Analyse the Light | A Different Take on Martian Bigotry
Actually Critical YJ Analyses
Masterpost | Invasion: a Detailed Dissection | Antithesis of Heroism
(Bonus Rhyme)
And now…
Fanfic Recommendations
This one is actually a bit of a challenge for me because I consume media (and analysis) quite widely across a lot of fandoms. I tend to draw eclectic inspiration from my whole ‘source-pool’ and its meta-patterns, so it’s hard for me to point to any one thing and say: ‘that specifically inspired part of DW’.
It’s also a little tricky because Deathly Weapons was partly inspired by me having some specific itches that I couldn’t find any stories to scratch. “People won't write the books I want, so I have to do it for myself” and so on and so forth. If you would like to make any recs based on DW then please do so, I would love to see them.
That said, my FFN Favourites and AO3 Bookmarks double as general recs lists - I tend to use my bookmarks/faves as quick-access for stories I want to revisit, so you can take anything on there as something I would potentially recommend to other people.
What I’d like to do now is give a more specific list of stories that are somewhat DW-adjacent or are doing interesting things with their premise/execution/characterisation:
Danny Phantom
Alibi (FFN) by MyAibou
Gen | Complete | Post series (no PP)
He was Dash Baxter. Football star. King of Casper High. The world was supposed to have been his oyster for at least another decade. So how did he end up in the basement lab of FentonWorks working for the dad of the kid he used to beat up in high school? And how far would he stick his neck out to protect that kid and whatever secret he was hiding from the government?
A Ghost Story (FFN) by Cordria
Gen | Complete | Slowburn mystery AU
Maddie finds a strange toy airplane in a field, and it leads her to learning some very interesting things about her family.
You know how I said I can’t usually point to something as direct inspiration for DW? This is one of the exceptions: Maddie’s realisation very much inspired Robin’s similar one in CH12: Answers.
What Little Girls are Made Of (AO3) by Haiju
Gen | Complete | Dani-centric reveal fic
Phantom and his younger double save Amity Park from a monstrous ghost, nearly destroying themselves in the process. The Fentons have always hunted ghosts; now it's time to save one.
Young Justice
Before we begin, I would like to share this AO3 filter I use for YJ fics published pre-2019. It won’t pick up any still-updating fics or older fics that might have migrated to AO3 since, but if you want to revisit what the fandom felt like before the Fire Nation attacked then this will come pretty close.
Age of Heroes (AO3) by VelkynKarma
Gen | Complete | Zombie Apocalypse AU
The apocalypse has come and gone and the Age of Heroes is long since over. There’s not much left to live for, but Wally’s never been one to give up without trying, and maybe there are still a few miracles—and heroes—left in the world.
The Fedora Verse (AO3) by itsxandy
Gen | Series | Complete | Villain!Wally Elseworld
Wally West is the newest, fastest thief in Central City. His biggest offense so far? Making crime look this good.
No One Said Flying Was Easy (AO3) by Wrtrmd2
Gen | Complete | Robin origin story
Eight year old Richard Grayson has just watched his parents fall to their deaths. Hurting and alone, he struggles to adjust to the new life he's thrown into. Bruce Wayne takes him in, but seems to have no idea what he's doing. Can they help each other put the pieces of their broken lives back together?
Morals (FFN) by WonderWalrus
Spitfire | Complete | CW: graphic depictions of violence
When a mission takes a turn for the worse, Wally is captured by Shadows and held captive in a secret base. Alone and afraid, he finds himself talking to the only person who will listen: the blonde archer guarding him who refuses to give her name.
Coming of Rage (AO3) by BlackFriar
Gen | Complete | CW: graphic depictions of violence
Batman is infected with rage, leading Robin and Kid Flash on a mad dash through Gotham to find the cure before Batman destroys either himself…or someone he cares about.
Danny Phantom x Young Justice (or Teen Titans)
Turning Tables (FFN) by Blackwolfhunting
TT x DP | Gen | Complete | Post TUE AU | CW: experimentation
When the Teen Titans face a new apprentice from Slade, what are they to do especially when this one can turn Invisible and hide from their sights. Though they receive surprising help that just might help reveal the mystery around this new apprentice and why exactly he hates one Vlad Masters' guts.
Shoutout to this as the first proper fanfiction I ever read and the one that started me on the path into fandom. If you’re wondering where ThreeWaysDivided began, you can look here. (I ask that you not hold it against them: they knew not what would happen and no doubt meant well).
Unfair Justice (FFN) by Daruku Janubu
DP x YJ | Gen | Discontinued |CW: Post-dissection fic
Within the cargo box of a missing truck, the team found something that would redefine their view on justice. For sometimes, believing you are doing what is right makes innocent people suffer; and sometimes, saving people's lives is not enough to make you their hero.
Not the first YJ x DP fic I ever read but this is the first one I remember really sticking with me. Warning for heavy content but lovely style. Also, coincidentally, by the artist who drew the cover which first enticed me into checking out Turning Tables. Because life, like fic, is sometimes very well written.
The Heart of a Hero (FFN) by Rookey
DP x YJ | Gen | Hiatus/ Discontinued | Post TUE AU
With the whole world blaming him for an accident that killed thousands, Danny Fenton finds himself living day-to-day in a rather peaceful city he thought to be widely overlooked by the Justice League. But the heart of a hero knows no bounds, and Danny finds staying hidden to be much harder than he anticipated; especially when Happy Harbor isn't nearly as "overlooked" as he thought.
Control (FFN) by nikodark
DP x YJ | Gen | Abandoned | CW: kidnapping & violence
Dick Grayson gets kidnapped a lot. A whole lot. We all know that tired trope. But this time he gets kidnapped by a ghost.
The Half-Finished, Half-Assed Guide to Being Half-Dead: By a Half-Ghost (AO3) by ItsyBitsyBatsySpider
DP x YJ | Gen | Ongoing
Dick Grayson is thrown into a world he didn't even know existed, with powers that he can barely understand, and Danny Fenton did not expect to become a ghost mentor when the Justice League came knocking on his door.
Red Eyes (FFN) by art-is-a-bang-yeah
DP x YJ | Gen | Complete | Post TUE AU | CW: abuse
During a benefit Bruce and his charge meet Vlad masters and his son Daniel, a boy with blood red eyes. When Bruce notices a few things seem off about the teen, he decides he should investigate and what he discovers is much darker than he thought possible.
Ghost of A Chance (AO3) by MirrorandImage
TT x DP | Gen | Complete | CW: PTSD & former abuse
At a financial gala, Robin finds a curious girl who only has one thing to say: "Tell Danny I'm alive."
Other fandoms and crossovers
E.Nigma Investigations (AO3) by Gh0stWriter, zorasublime (Dr_Skeletons)
Batman Elseworld | Gen | Series | Quasi-1940s Noir Mystery
Recently-reformed and even more recently-released from Arkham Asylum, Edward Nigma is struggling to find work as a Private Eye. A changed Gotham greets him; marred by the scars of a harrowing catastrophe that put real fear into the public and shifted the dynamic of the Rogues. Cobblepot is on the rise and, with the Joker leaving burned bridges in his wake, the city's underworld is more dangerous for Harley Quinn than she wants to believe. Police, doctors and former friends on all sides, suspiciously-specific fires breaking out in the slums and Whispers of something more horrifying on the horizon. What a time to try to go straight.
What the Cat Dragged In (AO3) by Kryal
Miraculous Ladybug x Early MCU | Gen | Complete
Tony's pretty sure it's written into cosmic law somewhere: superheroes are not supposed be cute.
Apparently, no one's told these two.
He’s okay with that.
They're Us (FFN) by Goldenbrook15
Young Justice x Justice League Unlimited | Gen | Abandoned
When Young Justice’s Team land themselves in another dimension by accident and then manage to escape the entire Justice League (who strangely don't know them at all) and flee into the world outside, Batman can only come to one conclusion, "They're us, from a different world."
Happytown (AO3) by TMBrown
Zootopia | Gen | Complete | Buddy-cop investigation
A special assignment leads Judy and Nick into a tangled web of history in Nick's childhood home, while Judy deals with the consequences of her fame back in Bunnyburrow.
Good Neighbors (AO3) by PitViperOfDoom
My Hero Academia | Gen | Series | Complete | Leverage AU
Sometimes you miss your calling, but that doesn't mean you won't find it again in an unexpected place.
the family brooklyn (AO3) by tactfulGnostalgic
Spider-man: Into the Spiderverse | Gen | Series | Complete
A series of fics set in the Spiderverse, about home and its variations.
Developmental Milestones (AO3) by audreycritter
Batman (comics) | Gen | Complete | OC Centric
Dr. Kiran Devabhaktuni is a neurosurgeon. He's the neurosurgeon that cut a tumor out of Bruce Wayne's skull.
At first, Dev was just coming around for tea with Alfred. But somehow he's now working as the doctor for the Wayne Family.
And the Wayne family? Also the Batman Family.
I don’t usually recommend OC-centric fics but Dev is one of the best support characters I have ever encountered. 10/10 very good Batdoctor.
Demonology and the Tri-Phasic Model of Trauma: An Integrative Approach (AO3) by Nnm
Good Omens (TV) | Gen | Complete
As soon as Aubrey Thyme, psychotherapist, had opened her office door and seen her new client, Anthony J. Crowley, sitting in her waiting area, she was observing and assessing him. At first glance, she paid attention to the following:
--His clothing was expensive and stylish;
--He wore very strange but noticeable cologne;
--His relationship to the seat he occupied could only, very loosely, be described as “sitting;”
--He looked angry;
--He was wearing sunglasses.
What Aubrey Thyme, a professional, thought, upon first seeing her new client was: you’re going to be a fun one, aren’t you?
Other media recs
Going to finish off with a little tangent (as is my wont). Sometimes I get the sense that Deathly Weapons is built a little different from the average crossover fic, and I think part of it is that I draw a fair bit of inspiration and stylistic influence from traditionally published media across a bunch of genres. Here are a few of those:
Works that directly influenced Deathly Weapons
The Millennium Trilogy
Book Series | Mystery/ Modern Noir | Trilogy | Complete | CW: MA15+
Millennium publisher Mikael Blomkvist has made his reputation exposing corrupt establishment figures. Enigmatic delinquent security specialist Lisbeth Salander is a genius computer hacker who tolerates no restrictions placed on her by individuals, society or the law.
They were men who hated women, and she was the woman who hates men who hate women.
This is one of my favourite mystery/ crime series and provided a fair amount of inspiration for DW in terms of structural, tonal and stylistic elements (especially in chapters like the Prologue and Phenomenon). People familiar with this series might recognise some direct stylistic homages in future chapters.
Trigger warning: This series deals heavily in subjects of bigotry (especially misogyny), abuse (personal, sexual and institutional) and violence against women, and includes explicit depictions and discussions. MA15+, reader discretion is advised.
The Kingkiller Chronicles
Book Series | Fantasy | Trilogy | Incomplete (2/3 Published)
I have stolen princesses back from sleeping barrow kings. I burned down the town of Trebon. I have spent the night with Felurian and left with both my sanity and my life. I was expelled from the University at a younger age than most people are allowed in. I tread paths by moonlight that others fear to speak of during day. I have talked to Gods, loved women, and written songs that make the minstrels weep.
My name is Kvothe.
You may have heard of me
One of my favourite fantasy series, and a big inspiration in terms of prose and style as well as some character dynamics. Fans may recognise direct homages in some of DW’s chapter titles, such as Roads to Safe Places and Ill-Lit Ships.
The Book Thief
Book | Historical Fiction | CW: War, Nazism/ Antisemitism, Death
It’s just a small story really, about, among other things:
a girl; some words; an accordionist; some fanatical Germans; a Jewish fist-fighter; and quite a lot of thievery.
I saw the book thief three times.
This book has my all-time favourite prose in terms of lyricism and imagery, as well as its ability to speak to loss and find beauty in the human condition even under horrific circumstances. I sometimes re-read it as part of preparation for writing emotionally heavy chapters like Roads to Safe Places, and fans might recognise some direct stylistic homages.
Avatar: The Last Airbender
TV Series (Animated) | Fantasy/ Martial Arts
In a war-torn world of elemental magic, a young boy reawakens to undertake a dangerous mystic quest to fulfill his destiny as the Avatar, and bring peace to the world.
What can I say about A:TLA that hasn’t already been said by a million other writers and story analysts? I certainly took some structural and emotional cues from this show and the discussions around it when planning DW’s overarching story.
Other ones you might like
I’m going to bundle Psychonauts 2, Leverage and Spiderman: Into the Spiderverse together as I have discussed them at length in another recommendation post but if you enjoyed any of the story flavours in Young Justice Season 1 then these will probably scratch some similar itches.
If you like young adult spy stories that are played more for tension/ intrigue than fantasy then you may enjoy the Alex Rider book series. I reread the first book, Stormbreaker, while working on the last third of the Black Gold mission.
The Bartimaeus Sequence is a very entertaining series of YA Urban Fantasy political intrigues featuring magic and demons, narrated mostly by a djinn who has some pointed comments to make about humanity. Those who like their Urban Fantasy with intrigue/ crime elements, villain protagonists and/or banter may also like the Artemis Fowl series (YMMV on the last 2 books, which were written later and somewhat divisive for their shift in style and focus).
Speaking of morally ambiguous intrigue-heavy Urban Fantasy, the Death Note manga is a fun cat-and-mouse murder-thriller between two ruthless strategists.
Fullmetal Alchemist is another deservedly well-renowned modern fantasy manga with mystery/ political intrigue elements, which has some broad-strokes overlaps with A:TLA in terms of structure, tone and general thesis on humanity.
Spiritfarer is a cozy indie management game about dying. This might seem like a bit of a dark horse offering but a major component of DW Arc II’s planned main character thread is about the journey through (and specificity of) grief. If that is something you enjoy then Spiritfarer is a concentrated dose of that in an exceptionally executed, insightful, gentle and touching form, with a gorgeous soundtrack.
Another dark horse offering coming in to land (heh) is Air Crash Investigations (also known as Mayday: Air Disaster), a documentary series about aviation forensics. As discussed here, it’s a very good example of fair-mystery style investigative storytelling grounded in human tragedy - especially from Season 11 onwards. Fair warning: if you have issues with planes or flying then you may want to tread carefully here.
And with that I think we’ll stop for now. Hope you find something you like in the list. Please feel free to add on any recs of your own!
#also shoutout to Keys to the Kingdom and Dragon Booster who I was knocked flat to realised parts of DW's climax/ending was riffing on#young justice: deathly weapons#young justice#danny phantom#fanfic reccomendation#fic recs#YJ fanfic recs#DP fanfic recs#YJ Meta#DP Meta#mygoldfishateit#3WD Answers
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Here're my interpretations of the arc 6 watchlist:
Episodes: 4.14, 4.15, 4.17, 4.18, 4.19, 4.20, 4.21
Importance: Conner in the Phantom Zone
Episodes: 1.10, 1.11, 1.25
Importance: Early Supermartian moments that I think Conner will either hallucinate before he gets out of the Phantom Zone, or will appear in his memories if M'gann needs to go into his mind to de-brainwash him after the zone sickness/Zod/everyting.
Episodes: 3.3, 3.13, 3.14, 3.19, 3.20, 3.24, 3.26
Importance: All involve Violet and/or the Markovs. I don't know how Markovia ties into the Conner plot, but it definitely seems like Violet will get more screentime. If they had a new rainbow power that worked as a Phantom Zone projector that would be very helpful /hj
Episodes: 1.19, 3.25, 4.9, 4.13, 4.21
Importance: Zatanna. She's instigating the arc by bringing Dick the mystery (4.21). I also think that Artemis is going to learn that Zatanna and M'gann lied to her in Overwhelmed (3.25). The others on this list are a little harder to explain. If Doctor Fate is involved, that could explain the inclusion of 1.19, 4.9, and 4.13. It's also true that 1.19 is a big episode for Captain Marvel, and 4.13 has the after-credits scene of Mary going dark, but I seriously doubt that that is going to be addressed this season. There are just too many other things going on.
Episodes: 1.10, 1.25, 4.8
Importance: I know a lot of people want to read into these that Jade and the League of Assassins and maybe even Jason and Damian are going to make an appearance. Me included. But I don't see it happening. As I said above, I think the season one episodes are there for their Supermartian B plots. 4.8 includes the scenes with Jon and Clark reacting to Conner's death. If the League was going to show up, all four episodes of Artemis's arc would probably be on the list, not just one.
Episode: Performance
Importance: Dick-centric episode for the Dick-centric arc. If you show me Flying Grayson flashbacks I swear I will cry.
Episode: Independence Day
Importance: Remember when the team released Superboy and he attacked them because of the brainwashing? I sure hope nothing like that happens again 👀. I just want to see the founding members of the team together again.
I ⚡ can't wait ⚡ to see ⚡ how everything ⚡ works ⚡ out ⚡⚡⚡😉
#young justice#yj spoilers#yj spec#yj meta#conner kent#zatanna zatara#violet harper#dick grayson#dc#emarma's
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Someone pointed out to me on my other post that what we’re seeing this season (S4) is more of SB after his Cadmus programming, not as feral as his character in, say, Bereft — because that would’ve been before his programming
And that’s valid. Fair point.
Still, 90% of the time we see Conner he has his angry eyes on
But this does add another level to my original analysis.
His instinct is to become angry. His default is rageful.
Even the other clones we see focus on are also known for being angry (and/or unstable) - Roy (now Will) Harper in s1, and Match
Phantom Zone Conner just seems…numb. Devoid of all emotion. Including rage
I think it’s obvious he was noticeably more angry/full of rage when the gang found him at Cadmus. And that unsettles me, because we’ve never seen Conner numb or emotionless. Ever.
Programming or not, his instinct has always been to get angry first. Fight back first. Conner favors fight over flight or freeze. He fights. It’s integral to his character
Blame it on the Zone Sickness if you want, but I still don’t think it’s completely in-character for Conner to be trusting of Zod almost immediately. If anything I think it would make him MORE paranoid but that’s just my opinion 😅
Side note: that being said, I didn’t mind seeing Conner’s scene with Luthor shown earlier this season. Because that was pretty much exactly how I thought that would play out if SB hadn’t been rescued. (Even down to the building they were in)
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and to think that this all happened because laura lee called her piano teacher a cunt
#yellowjackets#yj#laura lee#laura lee yellowjackets#yellowjackets season 2#yellowjackets season 1#showtime yellowjackets#jane widdop#yellowjackets memes#yellowjackets meta#shauna shipman#natalie scatorccio#van palmer#taissa turner#jackie taylor#travis martinez#lottie matthews#misty quigley
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I think this season of yellowjackets has been doing some rlly clever stuff with Shauna's pregnancy, specifically examining the ways pregnancy gets fetishised.
Shauna's pregnancy is a group event, it's a baby shower Shauna never agreed to, it's Lottie touching her body without consent, it's Misty and Crystal planning a song as if this isn't going to be intensely traumatic, it's 'OUR baby'.
So much of Shauna's dream sequence is just her and the baby - getting to have intimacy, and solitude, 'I just want to enjoy this moment'.
It may not be 'real' but the group DOES cannibalise her baby, in the same way Shauna cannibalised Jackie before ever touching her corpse. They're cannibalising the story of her baby, taking it in and using it for fuel.
And, of course, the instant her baby is dead, they all turn away. The camera turns away.
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i saw this reposted on pinterest last night and no joke have been thinking abt it non-stop since. i think jackie was going to be hurt as long as the person shauna was having sex with wasn't her. she doesn't frame it that way in her mind but their codependency becomes sexual in an inherent way because they literally cannot do anything without the other. shauna tries to break away from this by having sex with jeff but it doesn’t work — because even this rebellion is at its core about jackie. she has sex with jeff to gain some agency, to tell herself jackie doesn't control her life, but she does. and this isn't jackie's fault — jackie controls shauna through shauna's own obsession with and dependency on her. in the end, shauna didn’t have sex without jackie — she was thinking about her the whole time.
#yellowjackets#yj#yellowjackets meta#jackieshauna#shaunajackie#shackie#jackie x shauna#shauna x jackie#jackie taylor#shauna shipman#shauna sadecki#yellowjackets shauna#yellowjackets jackie#shauna yellowjackets#jackie yellowjackets
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Can we stop for a second and think about how, in s1, Dick tells Wally "I didn't want my best pal questioning my objectivity", only for Wally to remind him "Dude, that's what a best pal is for..."
And then, in s3, Will confronts Dick, and says "[I'm talking about] Your need for a Wally West substitute. [...] You needed someone who knows you. [...] I get it, you needed someone to give you a reality check, to keep you honest, to tell you what no one else will tell the boss."
Because despite Dick being so secretive, everyone, and I mean everyone knows the impact that Wally had on Dick. Even after Wally's death, which might I remind you is what definitely pushed Dick over the edge (taking a break from the life, hallucinating his dead best friend after saying he was alright, neglecting the kids he rescued, letting Wally's name slip, etc), nobody forgot what Wally meant to Dick.
In the YJ comics, you can even see Dick in tears at Wally's funeral. Dick, the reliable, strong-willed, military-trained one, lets himself cry in front of everyone else. Wally was Dick's only anchor to reality. Not Bruce, not the others, not even being Robin - just Wally. He kept Dick humble, grounded, even in s2 after their argument, which would've hurt less if neither the two of them nor the others were aware on their symbiotic bond.
Wally's trust in Dick's plan wavering for that moment is enough for Dick to actually question his own choices, to make him question his own grip on reality, the control he has over the situation - just for a moment, but the crushing doubt is there.
And, I say symbiotic, but I must admit that in YJ we don't really get to see Dick being supportive of Wally, not as much as we see Wally being supportive of Dick, but it's heavily implied anyway.
The chemistry between Wally and Dick is undeniable. Some ship them, some don't - but what I think everyone can agree on is that, were Wally to ever return, chaos would ensue, and Dick's control would inevitably slip.
#i am very normal about them#posting yj meta in the year of the lord 2024 because i can.#dick grayson#wally west#kid flash#robin#nightwing#yj#young justice#birdflash#platonic or romantic idc i love them both
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There’s a line from American Gods I keep coming back to in relation to Yellowjackets, an observation made early on by Shadow in prison: “The kind of behavior that works in a specialized environment, such as prison, can fail to work and in fact become harmful when used outside such an environment.” I keep rotating it in my head in thinking about the six survivors, the roles they occupy in the wilderness, and the way the show depicts them as adults in society.
Because in the wilderness, as in prison, they’re trapped—they’re suffering, they’re traumatized, they’re terrified—but they’re also able to construct very specific boxes to live in. And, in a way, that might make it easier. Cut away the fat, narrow the story down to its base arc. You are no longer the complex young woman who weighs a moral compass before acting. You no longer have the luxury of asking questions. You are a survivor. You have only to get to the next day.
Shauna: the scribe. Lottie: the prophet. Van: the acolyte. Taissa: the skeptic. Misty: the knight. Natalie: the queen. Neat, orderly, the bricks of a new kind of society. And it works in the woods; we know this because these six survive. (Add Travis: the hunter, while you’re at it, because he does make it to adulthood).
But then they’re rescued. And it’s not just lost purpose and PTSD they’re dealing with now, but a loss of that intrinsic identity each built in the woods. How do you go home again? How do you rejoin a so-called civilized world, where all the violence is restricted to a soccer field, to an argument, to your own nightmares?
How does the scribe, the one who wrote it all out in black and white to make sense of the horrors, cope with a world that would actively reject her story? She locks that story away. But she can’t stop turning it over in her head. She can’t forget the details. They’re waiting around every corner. In the husband beside her in bed. In the child she can’t connect with across the table. In the best friend whose parents draw her in, make her the object of their grief, the friend who lives on in every corner of their hometown. She can’t forget, so she tries so hard to write a different kind of story instead, to fool everyone into seeing the soft maternal mask and not the butcher beneath, and she winds up with blood on her hands just the same.
How does the prophet come back from the religion a desperate group made of her, a group that took her tortured visions, her slipping mental health, and built a hungry need around the very things whittling her down? She builds over the bones. She creates a place out of all that well-intended damage, and she tells herself she’s helping, she’s saving them, she has to save them, because the world is greedy and needs a leader, needs a martyr, needs someone to stand up tall and reassure everyone at the end of the day that they know what’s best. The world, any world, needs someone who will take those blows so the innocent don’t have to. She’s haunted by everyone she didn’t save, by the godhood assigned to her out of misplaced damage, and when the darkness comes knocking again, there is nothing else to do but repeat old rhymes until there is blood on her hands just the same.
How does the acolyte return to a world that cares nothing for the faith of the desperate, the faith that did nothing to save most of her friends, that indeed pushed her to destroy? She runs from it. She dives into things that are safe to believe in, things that rescue lonely girls from rough home lives, things that show a young queer kid there’s still sunshine out there somewhere. She delves into fiction, makes a home inside old stories to which she already knows the endings, coaxes herself away from the belief that damned her and into a cinemascope safety net where the real stuff never has to get in. She teaches herself surface-level interests, she avoids anything she might believe in too deeply, and still she’s dragged back to the place where blood winds up on her hands just the same.
How does the skeptic make peace with the things she knows happened, the things that she did even without meaning to, without realizing? She buries them. She leans hard into a refusal to believe those skeletons could ever crawl back out of the graves she stuffed them into, because belief is in some ways the opposite of control. She doesn’t talk to her wife. She doesn’t talk to anyone. It’s not about what’s underneath the surface, because that’s just a mess, so instead she actively discounts the girl she became in the woods. She makes something new, something rational and orderly, someone who can’t fail. She polishes the picture to a shine, and she stands up straight, the model achievement. She goes about her original plan like it was always going to be that way, and she winds up with blood on her hands just the same.
How does the knight exist in a world with no one to serve, no one to protect, no reason propelling the devastating choices she had grown comfortable making? She rechannels it. She convinces herself she’s the smartest person in the room, the most capable, the most observant. She convinces herself other people’s mysteries are hers to solve, that she is helping in every single action she takes. She makes a career out of assisting the most fragile, the most helpless souls she can find, and she makes a hobby out of patrolling for crimes to solve, and when a chance comes to strap her armor back on and ride into battle, she rejoices in the return to normalcy. She craves that station as someone needed, someone to rely upon in the darkest of hours, and she winds up with blood on her hands because, in a way, she never left the wilderness at all.
How does the queen keep going without a queendom, without a pack, without people to lead past the horrors of tomorrow? She doesn’t. She simply does not know how. She scrounges for something, anything, that will make her feel connected to the world the way that team did. She moves in and out of a world that rejects trauma, punishes the traumatized, heckles the grieving as a spectacle. She finds comfort in the cohesive ritual of rehabilitation, this place where she gets so close to finding herself again, only to stumble when she opens her eyes and sees she’s alone. All those months feeding and guiding and gripping fast to the fight of making it to another day, and she no longer knows how to rest. How to let go without falling. She no longer wears a crown, and she never wanted it in the first place, so how on earth does she survive a world that doesn’t understand the guilt and shame of being made the centerpiece of a specialized environment you can never explain to anyone else? How, how, how do you survive without winding up with blood on your hands just the same?
All six of these girls found, for better or worse, a place in the woods. All six of them found, for better or worse, a reason to get up the next day. For each other. And then they go home, and even if they all stayed close, stayed friends, it’d still be like stepping out of chains for the first time in years. Where do you go? How do you make small choices when every decision for months was life or death? How do you keep the part of yourself stitched so innately into your survival in a world that would scream to see it? How do you do away with the survivor and still keep going?
They brought it back with them. Of course they did. It was the only way.
#yellowjackets#yellowjackets spoilers#yj meta#long post#shauna shipman#lottie matthews#taissa turner#van palmer#misty quigley#natalie scatorccio#the question not being how do you survive the wilderness. the question being how do you come BACK.#the way each of them tries so hard to keep moving forward#unable to untangle the girl in the woods from the adult suffering in polite society#how the world doesn’t want to hear about the pain or the night terrors or the sleepwalking or the addiction#the world wants the bright colors and the flash-bang headlines#the world doesn’t want who they are. who they had to be. it wants pretty perfect tragedy#that specialized environment lives on in each one of them every day#but it’s not a place anyone else can ever go#how do you feed that for so long and then just…stop?#constantly thinking about nat saying we didn’t make it out. none of us.#because no. no they didn’t. the girls died the minute that rescue chance did. what came back was risen from those ashes
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btw what is with everyone in the tags going like "let women do-" as if the show isnt working as a critic of these fully grown women refusing to fucking ask for help for shit to the point they break their families and get cancer and die from it because they couldn't have cared for themselves earlier or burden others with the task of loving them and caring for them so either.... like... girls... they're already doing everything and anyone they want to lmfao, we don't have to let them do shit they're disgusting without anyone's aid.... so with that in mind i think it'd serve more as an audience to talk about why and how some of the things presented onscreen are truly fucked up because too many are not grasping the gravity of the things onscreen while trying to play barbies with them and yes i am zeroing in:
specially if you're white in a cast with girls of color, ignoring the very real differences of the effect of the violence being experienced in the wildnerness is not something you get to do
just because race as a separate issue isn't textually very explicit, doesn't mean you get ignore it, the writers have actually integrated a lot with visual storytelling and the way the teenage yellowjackets dress and care for themselves out there in the wilderness, as well as what that has meant for their treatment in society and with themselves and other girls of color, it is sadly in the subtleties a lot, too much, because the writers indeed went too implicit for my liking but it is there and white fandom refuses to engage with that when it's fully part of the text, it is a thing here, race is a component in this horror, if you're white it is your responsibility to not put these onto others and look inside as to why you won't touch that part of the show when it allows for a complete understanding of characters like lottie and taissa, like even with the fragmented bts, there's a lot to critic already both good and bad when you take that into account for them, and it permeates a lot of what they do, because its a story, everything is magnified, of courses in their race matters and if the writers truly didn't give a fuck, then it would matter because it means, we, the audience, have to care, yes, it is a responsibility, with that word, but it's about truly holding a mirror to. ourselves when looking at them, you're basically failing at this im sorry when you refuse the full parts of their identities, cause i bet you do that irl too, always remember, fiction is reality for is a part of it, don't be so quick to dismiss the lives of these women, im sorry but there's very little safe way to engage with a show entrenched so deeply in a culture of trauma, be aware of your own attitudes toward if because it does reflect you, that's all
on god you arent watching this shit uncritically specially if you're white, you don't get to do so
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The Justice League had finally given the go ahead to officially form the Young Justice. Not that any of them were going to stop regardless of having permission. Since the Justice League had opened up their slots for more than the original six earlier that year, Batman thought it would be a good opportunity to use the Young Justice to help reach out and recruit some other heroes without drawing too much attention by going themselves. With protégés of most of the originals in the roster it was a solid plan.
They had been told about their newest "assignment" (if you could even call it that) earlier that day and they would be leaving in the morning. They were supposed to go meet a duo in Illinois (it was their base of operation even though they'd worked in other place). Phantom has been in the vigilante/hero scene for almost 10 years now, and Red Huntress started a few months after him.
Their names were well known, Dick had known of them even before he became Robin. But despite their national (maybe even International fame) little was actually known about the duo and the rumored Team Phantom that alluded to there being more than just the two. Dick had been a big fan of Phantom, and modeled a lot of his moves off of the super-powered hero.
Batman told them that they had already reached out the Phantom (Red Huntress had deferred them to him, and refused to speak with them afterwords) and he agreed to meet the YJ team and mentor them for a designated amount of time. There had been rumors in certain forums that the JLA had reached out to Phantom to be one of the original members of the league but he had turned them down. When Kid Flash had brought it up during the meeting, Batman refused to confirm or deny (which was proof enough).
The plan was for the YJ would stay in Amity Park for 15 days and learn from them, they would check in after that to see weather their stay should be extended. Specifically citing that their legendary teamwork would be incredibly beneficial to learn from to strengthen them as a team. The other plan, and equally as important, was to warm them up to joining the JLA ranks since a direct invitation hadn't been received favorably.
All that was thrown in the window when, three days in, the YJ, Phantom and Red Huntress get portaled to an unknown destination, with strange and unknown life(?) forms, with no supplies, no working communicators, and worst of all, no way back.
#dpxdc#danny fenton#danny phantom#young justice#dp#young justice show#justice league#phantoms been around for a while atp#and he's stopped enough world ending threats that people know who he is#but he's as mysterious as batman is and no one rly knows much abt him#they get portaled to another world or dimension#but it could also be the ghost zone#danny never mastered the art of teleporting or making portals so they're kinda screwed#val and danny's tech works bc it's designed to work in the GZ#so the other world thing isn't super problematic for them#but they still don't know where they r or how they got there#the kids learn how to plan on their feet and get a objectively disastrous situation under control#which is basically every misson team phantom deals w#so they're in good hands#i think team phantom sound be early/mid 20s an YJ are 15-16#or how ever old they are in S1 lol#is this ghost shenanigans?#also could just be a natural portal and they were wring place wrong time#i think i like that better tbh#the giw is long gone#the meta rights act dealth with them for the most part#and a scathing article from one lois lane and clark kent#phantom doesn't want pple to know that he's not entirely a ghost so he stays out of the spotlight and he doesn't wanna risk being recognize#but most people actually don't even know that he is a ghost#or they do know he's a ghost and think red huntress is also a ghost
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Thinking about The Light
More thought exercises? More thought exercises.
You know the drill: in this house we are Season 1 only - let’s see what we can extrapolate from just the information available way back when. You can consider this canon to the Deathly Weapons-verse if you like but I’m also a big fan of Death of the Author so feel free to ignore literally anything I say on this blog until/unless it appears in-story.
Let’s go:
What are the Light’s Overarching Values?
The Light’s recurring tagline is to “make humanity see the Light” or “bring humanity into the Light”, which can be decoded to mean driving humanity into “the next stage of evolution” and building Earth into a cosmic power.
In Auld Acquaintance, Vandal Savage gives the clearest explanation for why their organisation opposes the Justice League; he believes that the heroes are upholding (and perhaps even enforcing) a “calcified status quo”, and that by continuing to operate they have become “agents of stagnation” who allow weakness to persist, holding humanity back from the next stage of its evolution.
Here’s a question: Do they have a point?
Let’s break this down into some sub-questions:
Is the status quo bad?
Do the heroes exist to uphold or enforce the status quo?
Are the heroes doing harm by (accidentally or intentionally) upholding the status quo?
Are the heroes impairing humanity’s development?
1. Is the Status Quo bad?
This is argument that has the most validity. There are real issues with the status quo of Season 1; we see crime, corruption, poverty, domestic abuse, racial supremacy, violent dictatorships, warmongering and war-profiteering among others. Season 1’s Earth-16 is presented as fairly analogous to the real world of 2010 so it would be reasonable to assume it has many of the same underlying issues with structural and systemic inequality.
2. Do the Justice League exist to uphold or enforce the Status Quo?
From an outsider perspective it could be argued that the Justice League as an organisation don’t do much to meaningfully address the problems with the status quo. The League claims to uphold the principles of “truth, liberty and justice” but operationally they’re most publicly involved in danger management, apprehension of super-criminals, disassembling large-scale organised crime, and disaster relief. Some League heroes do overtly function as an extension of some kind of military or law enforcement organisation - for example, the Green Lantern Corps. From this perspective, one could argue that heroes exist to stop the status quo from backsliding/ being disrupted but don’t do a lot to better it, or to effectively address the root causes of suffering.
And for someone who empathises or agrees with the arguments of a figure who the Justice League has stopped, and who interprets this as the League condemning and silencing their ideology (rather than the actions it is being used to justify), they could come to see the League as existing to forcibly instate a specific status quo and set of values.
However, while this is a not-reasonable conclusion for someone with a limited in-universe perspective to reach, from the audience’s wider perspective we know it to be incomplete. Behind the scenes and outside of public Justice League activities, many heroes are working to improve the status quo and its systems. In-show Bruce Wayne (Batman) is acknowledged as an internationally active philanthropist, and general pop-culture knowledge holds that several others do grassroots work in their home-cities (either as civilians or openly as heroes). From certain angles, “heroes” could be considered a single extrajudicial facet of a diffuse humanitarian effort; the publicly visible stopgap against things getting overtly worse, while the same people work to make systemic improvement more quietly through other avenues.
The League also doesn’t have a single unified agenda or stance on the specifics of their mission and methods; as seen in Agendas, the actions of the organisation are decided democratically through a process of round-table debate and voting. From general pop-culture knowledge of the heroes presented as core members of the League, a range of political and ideological backgrounds are represented. In that regard, the Justice League is more of an administrative/ logistical body for efficient large-scale coordination and information-sharing than an institute with an active political agenda.
Some additional fridge-logic nuance should also be noted: because of their position, heroes cannot be too overt in their politics or in agitating for societal change. Heroes - particularly metahumans and aliens - are physically powerful and imposing, especially a large paramilitary body like the Justice League. They have to walk a fine line to avoid being seen as a political or military threat, or to give their more politically-influential adversaries material to make that argument. In order to retain the public and institutional sympathy needed to continue operating unimpeded, the League has to maintain some degree of outward image positioning themselves as apolitical defenders working with society and within the status quo. Being outwardly seen as safe is a necessity of being allowed to continue operating.
3. Are the heroes doing harm by (accidentally or intentionally) upholding the Status Quo?
Not really. An argument like this holds some weight in worlds like My Hero Academia - where heroism has become a widespread societally-integrated institute that is functionally a branch of law-enforcement, with a financial incentive to enforce the status quo and supress dissent - but in DC Comics heroes are still a fairly small movement with limited systemic power.
Exact numbers vary depending on the canon but there are usually no more than a handful of individual heroes or a small team (<10) per major city, with many cities having no permanent resident hero. Even on the scale of organisations like the Justice League (which, let’s be real, is small relative to most institutes), they don’t have the presence needed to be an oppressive force - let alone the inclination.
You could argue that the presence of heroes inadvertently creates more violence and expansion from “villains” - a risk that the Justice League themselves acknowledge during Agendas - but it’s kind of a non-argument. While heroes do sometimes create their own “villains” this is fairly rare - a lot of criminals are motivated by personal goals that have nothing directly to do with the heroes, and some of the ones who claim to be “the monsters you created” would probably have slid into villainy anyway and are just shifting blame for their actions onto the nearest available authority. (The Joker’s multiple-choice past being a prime example here). The fact that some criminals use the heroes as scapegoats to justify their actions or alliances doesn’t make them liable for those crimes.
4. Are the heroes impairing humanity’s development?
No. The Justice League uphold “truth, liberty and justice” - outside of opposing corruption, criminal actions and inhumane behaviour they do not arbitrarily block progress. They may be opposed to the development of technology that has the potential to be used for harm but the opposition is to the potential misuse and damage, not to progress itself.
Nor are they stifling innovation. Heroes exist to solve a very specific niche of problems; they are a supplement to existing systems, stepping in where the normal course of justice is failing/ being impeded and to manage immediate threats/ disasters that are too large to be easily handled by existing infrastructure, everyday civilians or communities. The problems they solve are not problems that had other viable solutions at the time, and they do not treat the development of alternative solutions as “competition” to be eliminated. The most legitimate argument is that the League hoard advanced technology (such as Zeta-transportation and holo-displays) for themselves rather than sharing it with the public, but even here they are not attempting to supress its use or distribution by others.
Vandal’s argument contains a more overt implication that heroes cause complacency because people become over-reliant on them to solve problems rather than using their own ingenuity/ developing resilience, but again the League doesn’t have the scope for this to be systemically true. It’s the same bad-faith argument that can be used against any safety-net or preventative system/tool: “X is bad because people can rely on it rather than having to be fully individually self-reliant to survive Y”. You might as well argue that oncologists are bad because people rely on them to help overcome cancer.
Let’s look at another angle: do the Light practice what they preach?
Are the Light addressing the problems with the status quo?
Are the Light working to progress humanity?
1. Are the Light addressing the problems with the Status Quo?
No. All of the members are either indifferent to these problems, actively benefiting from unfair systems that they have a vested interest in maintaining, or intentionally doing harm. Lex Luthor is an ultracapitalist war-profiteer who is openly self-aware about the moral bankruptcy and purely financial motivation of his actions in Targets. Queen Bee is an iron-fisted dictator, using dubious claims and propaganda to justify annexing her country’s peaceful neighbours. Ocean Master stoked the flames of the Purist racial supremacist movement in Atlantis as part of an attempted coup for the throne. Ra’s Al Ghul runs a sect of assassins, engaging in “extortion, manipulation [and] power-broking”. The Brain is largely removed from the world, preferring to conduct unethical experiments in pursuit of his interests in bioenhancement, immortality and the mind. Klarion is an overtly sadistic Lord of Chaos who would happily turn the world into a “personal playground of pandemonium”.
All of these people have the power to influence the status quo and address some of the issues but they are not interested in doing so. When they do attempt to make change it’s usually for the worse, in service of personal gain.
2. Are the Light working to progress humanity?
Not really. This one’s a little more complex as the big-picture scope and ultimate goal of their actions is not clear, but for the most part each are shown pursuing largely personal endeavours outside of the unified plan for Starrotech - which is itself a mind-control device intended to disrupt the Justice League rather than something to benefit the people. All of them in some way have the resources and/or influence to improve the lives of people in their sphere and/or contribute to technological advancement but we never see them doing this; more often than not they cause harm, and any good done is an incidental side-effect of pursuing another goal (e.g. the Rhelasian peace summit).
To summarise:
Claims of harm used to justify dissembling the Justice League are a gross overstatement/ wilful misunderstanding at best and illegitimate at worse
The Light are demonstrably not working to address any of the criticisms that have legitimacy
Many of the Light’s actions either directly or indirectly cause far more harm
From this we can draw 2 potential conclusions:
1. The Light’s claims are an empty placard used to lend a veneer of legitimacy to selfish pursuits
This seems very likely given the composition of their membership, their actions and that several members are openly self-aware of their wrongdoing.
The following statement could be easily applied to the narrative of the Light: “The moral of this new story is freedom over equality, and one freedom above all – the freedom to be unbothered by others' needs.” In holding the members of the Light accountable for their actions, the Justice League “impinges” on the desired “freedom” to indiscriminately do what they please in pursuit of selfish goals. It is not hard to interpret the Light as reactionary and their rhetoric as the bad-faith reactionary argument that being held accountable is a form of oppression.
This would explain why they do not propose an alternate solution beyond dissembling the League and eliminating/ restricting heroism. They don’t actually want to refine the system, they just want to remove a control.
2. The Light subscribe to a different moral/ ideological framework, which has diagnosed a different “problem” and is prescribing a different “solution”
This is not mutually exclusive to the first idea. While the Light is an organisation, it is composed of individuals who each have their own personal position towards the mission of the whole. Some may be in it purely as an alliance of convenience against a common enemy, others because they believe in “the cause” to varying degrees.
But to make sense of the Light as a unit you need to make sense of the ideology driving its formation. Which is to say, the ideology of its leader.
Vandal Savage and Survival of the Fittest
Vandal Savage is positioned at the leader of the light - he is designated L1, he is the one who brought them together and he is the character who most explicitly vocalises their stated motivation. The Light’s purported ideological stance is specifically a reflection of Vandal’s personal ideological stance.
What is Vandal’s ideology?
Functionally it is a belief in “survival of the fittest”. This is the overt explanation he gives - that by protecting humanity from dangerous situations the heroes allow the “weak” to continue existing, causing human evolution to stagnate.
Implicitly, his stance is that the heroes should stand aside and allow humanity to face danger directly, so that the weak can die and the survivors can build a stronger species.
Is there any validity to this?
No. He’s categorically wrong.
Firstly, this is a basic failure to understand what “survival of the fittest” means. It has nothing to do with individual strength or athletic “fitness” - what it actually means is that natural selection favours individuals and populations with traits that are best suited to efficiently survive in the ecological niche they inhabit. It is a process of random mutation and the primary success metric is simply that the organism survive long enough to pass that mutation on to the next generation. Physical strength or aggression are not prerequisites for this; in fact, both can become liabilities in excess (high musculoskeletal mass becomes deleterious if the environment cannot meet the nutritional needs to maintain it, while overly-aggressive individuals will be unlikely to successfully attract a mate). Some of the “fittest” organisms on Earth are incredibly physically weak and incredibly vulnerable to sudden changes in their niche.
Secondly, humanity has been evolving successfully around Vandal Savage in a way that disproves his thesis. Natural selection has been at work, it has been selecting for the traits that make humanity best suited to survive on Earth, and (on the whole) the traits it has selected for are ones that make humans pro-social, intelligent, compassionate, communicative, collaborative, adaptive and resilient. Evolution selected for a species of individuals who care about others, and whose ability to develop tools and pass on information outstrips the need for raw physical might - a collective that is greater than the sum of its individual parts. (To use a real-world example, there is a reason why women survive so long after menopause and why we feel compelled to care for people who are visibly elderly/ frail - it benefits the population to have individuals with accumulated life experience).
Within DC comics’ alien-inhabited universe there are also a large number of other social species with community structures. Pro-social/ tribal behaviour is one of the most commonly selected-for evolutionary traits across the galaxy (just look at the diversity of species that comprise Green Lantern Corp membership), with compassionate pro-social behaviour being a quite common variant. Vandal isn’t just wrong about physical strength being the end-goal of life on Earth - he’s wrong on a cosmic scale.
There is also an irony to Vandal Savage being a self-proclaimed champion of human evolution. Vandal himself cannot evolve. He can adapt, certainly, he can learn and he can grow on a physical/psychological/emotional level, but evolution does not occur on the scale of a single individual, even a long-lived one. As an immortal individual and static point, Vandal will always be limited to the constraints of his own starting nature; human evolution will inevitably leave him behind no matter what direction it takes.
How might someone like Vandal have come about this mindset?
Vandal is indeed limited by his origins and starting point. He is a relic of early-humanity; a man who fought a bear and won, who was big and strong - at best a warrior-protector type - and who gained immortality/invulnerability through exposure to meteor-radiation that either made him into a mutate or awakened a latent proto-metagene.
This was a random event - not necessarily the “next phase of human evolution” but simply the acquisition of a trait that offset the personal negative consequences of his more aggressive, uncompassionate and antisocial sides. But that invulnerability elevated him above his peers and gave him a reason to see himself as exceptional. It bred within him a narcissism, and a belief that his mindset and experiences were either universal or superior.
And then humanity moved on. It evolved, and that evolution selected for a more communal, more pro-social, more compassionate population; whose skills at collaboration, coordination and tool-building surpassed the need for raw brute strength and domination. Not only that but other meta-humans and mutates began to emerge - ones who chose to use their abilities in compassionate, pro-social, humanitarian ways. Vandal was left behind, no longer exceptional in any way that mattered.
But a world in which Vandal Savage was not “the fittest” was intolerable to his ego. Rather than considering that maybe he was flawed, that he needed to revaluate himself, adapt, grow and place value in other things, he became reactionary. Instead of accepting the evolution occurring before his eyes, he disdained it as wrong, as enabling weakness, as a regression. Vandal may have adapted the rhetoric of his worldview to fit within the new language of modern science but he’s never actually questioned the core premise. He actively rejects the evidence in front of him, seeking to drag humanity back to a mythologised past, where might is power and Vandal Savage is the apex of the species.
Underneath all the attempts at intellectual rationalisation, this is ultimately the validation-seeking tantrum of a reactionary narcissist, whose meta-abilities let him enact it on an immortal and cosmic scale.
Here is a small truth
Evil is mundane.
What is the ultimate goal of The Light?
While never explained in-show the most logical answer is that it’s probably a form of intergalactic colonialism. This tracks with the membership of the Light - ultra capitalists, unethical scientists, dictators, power-hungry princes - and is a reasonable fusion of the “survival of the strong” and “evolved humanity” ethos.
It also aligns well with this reading of Vandal - the idea of conquering the universe, dominating all the warlike species and subjugating the peaceful ones to become the ultimate “apex predator” would flatter his ego and strength-based exceptionalism. It also tracks with traits of narcissism; one of which being a perception that others exist to support and serve oneself. In Vandal’s mind, humanity will be better off reshaped in his image: Earth as a cosmic power, not through trade or innovation or diplomacy but through might.
Let’s ask a couple of other questions:
If Vandal is immortal then why only form the Light now?
There are a few potential factors here.
Firstly, the tools he needs are now readily available. True global interconnectedness, communication and space travel were only properly refined in the last two centuries - before that he would have been limited to operating on a much smaller scale, over much longer timespans. The last two centuries also saw large leaps in technology, science and warfare. In the modern age Vandal can source allies from around the world, communicate with them instantaneously over distance and make use of a number of resources. Starrotech is the product of multiple advancements that would have until recently been impossible for even powerful people to easily obtain.
Secondly, this is the age of metahumans and heroes. The last two generations saw the prominent appearance and then public acceptance of heroes on Earth 16, and development of coordinated groups (first the Justice Society and then the Justice League) combined with global news media spreading the word. This would likely have provided the inspiration for Vandal’s plot of using the heroes as tools. It also would have made him more reactionary; the presence of people who were exceptional in similar ways to himself and who chose to use their gifts compassionately challenging both his view of human nature and his place as “the fittest”, spurring him to action.
A Theory
T.O. Morrow and his Reds may have been an early test. Vandal may not have directly recruited him but he could have made contact and planted the suggestion of using Androids to infiltrate the Justice Society - an experiment he could observe from afar. It would also account for Morrow’s ambitions diverging into a plan to wipe out humanity - Vandal planted the seed but he didn’t have control over what it would ultimately grow into.
It is also possible that Vandal made smaller scale attempts in the past, but this likely would have been hamstrung by both technological limitations and by the personalities involved. Vandal’s preferred allies would be people who share similar strength-based antisocial worldviews but those groups are essentially doomed to tear themselves apart with infighting eventually - after all, there can only be one “fittest”.
What do the Light’s loyalties look like?
The 7 principal members of the Light have different motivations for joining, spanning from purely personal alliances of convenience to varying degrees of belief in Vandal’s mission. These factors will determine the closeness of their allegiance and the conditions under which they might turn on the others.
It’s also worth noting that all of the members of the Light are at least somewhat antisocial and will likely abandon or even betray the group out of self-preservation if needed.
Vandal Savage
The originator of the ideology. He will remain loyal to it but may turn on the others if he perceives them as no longer useful, as “weak” or as a potential liability/ threat to himself, his ego or the cause.
Lex Luthor
Luthor has a number of potential personal and ideological reasons for joining. As an ultra-capitalist he stands to economically benefit from their colonial schemes. As someone with political ambitions, the Light’s rise to power as leaders of the “new humanity” would appeal to him. Luthor is also often depicted as xenophobically motivated by a fear of Superman - a projection of his own mindset, which cannot conceive of someone using their power for pure altruism - something that aligns well with Vandal’s reactionary strength-based mindset.
Luthor will potentially turn on the others if he believes doing so is a more financially or politically profitable move.
Ra’s Al Ghul
Ra’s alignment will depend on the specifics of the character; his depictions range from a brutal, villainous “demon” to a more sympathetic anti-villain with environmental motivations. What little is seen in Young Justice seems to swing more towards a calculating villain.
Ra’s often has a strength-based worldview, something that would resonate with Vandal’s mission: though they may diverge on the details, Ra’s has no great love for humanity in its current state and would have reasons to see them as weak. As the leader of an assassin sect, he has a potential business interest in intergalactic warfare as it generates a need for espionage and sabotage.
In canon it seems that Ra’s is withholding some information from the Light, as he explicitly knows Batman’s identity but does not appear to have shared this with the rest. He canonically has family, Talia Al Ghul appearing in the YJS1 companion comics. He also often has some degree of honour-code (if not a moral code), and a loyalty to his Shadows.
Ra’s will likely hold true to any agreement he has made, but may turn on the others if they go back on their word, if their actions severely violate his personal code or reveal them to be hypocrites, or if he believes they pose a threat to his Shadows or his family.
Queen Bee
Queen Bee’s motivations and allegiance to the Light are somewhat unclear. Her personal motivations seem mostly concerned with retaining power in Bialya and acquiring Qurac as a territory. As a dictator holding power through military might and propaganda, it is possible that she is sympathetic to Vandal’s ideology and may stand to politically and materially benefit from the Light’s intended rise to power.
Interestingly, the Light seems to have more interest in Queen Bee’s connections than her own skills and abilities; making use of Bialyan locales and the more powerful telepathy of her second-in-command, Psimon. It is possible that the Light could turn on her if they were to require an equivalent alternative ally and supply of resources.
Queen Bee may turn on or abandon the Light if they do not provide adequate support to her ambitions in Qurac, or if she believes their plans will require her to cede power without equivalent returns.
Ocean Master/ Prince Orm
Ocean Master’s reasons for allying with the Light are not explained. He seems personally motivated by jealousy toward his half-brother, King Orin (Aquaman), and a desire to supplant him on the throne of Atlantis. It is unclear what the Light are offering him in return, although the promise of gaining political power through alternative avenues, or the potential to discredit and unseat Orin as part of dissembling the Justice League may be driving him.
Like Queen Bee, Orm seems more useful to the Light for his position and sphere of influence than his specific personal skillset; he provides a foothold in Atlantis and the ability to monitor and potentially influence Orin’s court in his capacity as Prince Orm. The Light may turn on him should he fall out of Orin and Mera’s favour, or if they acquire another Atlantean ally with similar reach.
Orm may turn on or abandon the Light if they do not sufficiently support his attempts for the throne.
The Brain
The Brain seems rather detached from the main activities of the Light - mostly involved in their experiments with Kobra Venom and bioenhancement rather than Starrotech. He appears to be their biochemical and neurology expert - being the one to suggest that the Kobra Venom sample could be reverse engineered - yet it is Luthor who seems to be driving the operational side of Project Cadmus.
It is possible that he scientifically agrees with Vandal’s Darwinian argument. However he may also be involved for more amoral, transactional reasons; content to provide the Light with scientific services and advice so long as they provide the resources and facilities for him to pursue his own unethical research interests. This may explain his relative distance from their central plan.
It is unlikely that the Brain will diverge from the Light on moral or ideological grounds, but he may turn on or abandon them if he believes they are cutting him off.
Klarion
Klarion is here for shits and giggles; he allied himself with the Light because he thought it would be “fun”. As an immortal Lord of Chaos who cannot be contained, they have very little to offer that he might materially want. The Witch-boy is a wildcard loose cannon - impulsive, impatient and childish - both their powerhouse and biggest potential liability.
He will stay so long as it remains entertaining and will either abandon or turn on them on them if it becomes too “boring”, if he thinks the alternative would be “more fun” or if he believes they might try to contain him.
A Different Take on the 16 Hours
For the sake of people just tuning in: I don’t really vibe with the direction Season 2 took - I think both the heroes’ and villians’ plans are more hole than plot and end up much less compelling than they had the potential to be. So, let’s try something different:
How about this?
When the Light sent the Justice League members off-world for 16 hours, they sent them to directly adjacent solar systems and galactic arms (with the exception of Green Lantern who may have been sent further in attempt to divert the attention of the Corps). The intent of this was to extort resource-rich alien civilisations; demonstrating the strength of the controlled heroes before demanding that the inhabitants being paying protection tithes to Earth, with the threat that the full might of the League would descend upon those who did not comply.
This would accomplish several things:
The Light could quietly collect resources from any planet that complied, allowing them to stockpile wealth and alien technology to serve their future plans.
If any of the threatened planets attempted to contact Earth in protest it would reputationally damage the Justice League - shattering public trust by “revealing” that their supposed protectors had apparently been racketeering for personal gain outside of the public eye. In order to counter this, the Justice League would have to definitively prove that they had been controlled against their will - an admission to having been severely compromised that would weaken faith in a different direction and create opportunities for the Light’s publicly visible members to smear them as dangerously incompetent.
If any of the threatened planets attempted a military retaliation it could accomplish some combination of A) setting the Justice League up for targeted elimination, and/or B) present a “common threat” for Earth to militarily rise up against, allowing the Light to stoke demand for their own weapons-tech (bionic limbs, Kobra-Venom, Genomorphs etc.), potentially rise to power and drive humanity into a more aggressive state that would justify abandoning the “weak”.
Not only would this variant strategy offer multiple potentially beneficial outcomes, it would also yield results on a faster timeframe. By acting on adjacent systems, effects would likely be seen within a year or two at most - sufficient time for the Light to make preparations and set other support plans in motion, while also allowing just enough time to pass for the Justice League’s own investigations to potentially start turning cold, opening them up to be blindsided.
Anyway, that’s all I’ve got for today. Let me know your thoughts - or if you want other meta I did a S1-Only Take on Martian Colourism.
#scattered thoughts#young justice#young justice season 1#yj meta#young justice: deathly weapons#YJ:DW Meta#The Light (YJ)#DC Comics#the thing that drives me bananas about this show is how much interesting stuff you COULD extrapolate from just S1#3WD
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now personally, i think as far as compelling romantic dynamics go from yj98 i think i lean more towards cissie and cassie (ALSO anitas big ass crush on cissie lmao) + kon and bart (aka kon’s big ass crush on bart) but i will say i still enjoy tim and kon’s friendship in it.
they’re so funny because they so obviously like each other. they’re best friends! or at least kon considers tim his best friend! but they’re so so so bad at showing it. they would gag excessively if they knew about the “you’re my robin…” scene. wdym you’re saying you like that guy??? just tape his favorite show while he’s in space on an insane mission??? simply beat up (or attempt to beat up) a guy on his behalf multiple times???
i dunno i just feel like kon’s viewpoint on the importance of trust and tim not telling the team his real identity is really interesting to explore. especially paralleled with adventure comics #3. the way tim so easily pulls down his cowl v.s. how it felt like pulllng teeth for him every time kon brought up secret identity issues. and mind you! a lot of that was match, but it still obviously really hurt him! especially with the entirety of what happens in owaw! (my beloved <3)
i cannot for the life of me think of the issue number but during sins of youth when kon and clark are switched and they talk about clark not bringing up his secret identity. and despite his chill demeanor, kon seems pretty hurt by it. he likes to know he’s trusted. it’s kind of the same thing with the legion in early sb94. i think his lack of secret identity initially also plays into this. like, he can talk about everything in his personal life because, well, his personal life and professional life are essentially the same thing. now cut to tim complaining about having to lie to his dad. and his friends (including young justice and even bruce). and his girlfriend(s).
their dynamic is obviously heavily impacted by where they are in their lives at that point and it’s so compelling to me specifically.
+ the way kon latches onto being able to say tim’s real name soooo bad after wwyj. like. okay girl…!
#all this to say… i like when they r complicated :-)#kon el#tim drake#yj98#meta tag#i guess?#i’m really just ranting about kon#as one does#can u tell i wrote an entire fic about this topic :3#yj our worlds at war save me… save me yj our worlds at war…#dc#what’s bro yappin about#timkon#robin 93 tag#sb94 tag#long post
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thinking about the Lottie = the sun metaphor & her relationship w/ heliotrope
lottie has her acolytes (+ nat) wear heliotrope (the healing plant) because her identity is tied around helping others move past their issues. She genuinely wants to help & heal the members of her community and covering them up in heliotrope is a reminder of that. but she doesn’t wear heliotrope, because she’s not truly healing. she wears gold (like the sun). she wants to elevate her persona above others, and have them turn towards her for warmth, so she doesn’t have to face her real issues.
#does this make sense#yellowjackets#lottie matthews#yellowjackets meta#yj season 2#lottie yellowjackets
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