#ITS ALL SO. MAN people overlook his superiority complex a lot and I think that needs to be explored more in fanon bc itd be a huge part of
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THOUGHTS ARE BREWING ABOUT REWRITING KFP4
Brace for impact cause I’ve been ruminating for weeks on how to redo it because like, there’s so many directions you could take it. BUT IM THINKING OF AN INTERESTING WAY TO REWRITE THE CHAMELEON AND AUGHHH I MUST BLAB
Cause obviously it’s a bullshit thing that her excuse for being evil is that she wasn’t allowed to know kung fu because she’s too small. We all know its dumb with Shifu, Mantis, and literally Master Chicken existing. BUT YOU KNOW WHAT ISNT STUPID? The womanly coded rage of “I don’t need to be good, I need to be GREAT” and like sure its not like a characteristic of female rage but when that thought process is within a woman it takes on a whole different kinda tone compared to a man. Miss Chameleon who, while living in a universe where there isn’t really overt sexism, still feels overlooked by all the men around her.
In my rewrite of her story, not only would she have known kung fu, but she would have been a master herself. But her problem (like the running themes of all the kfp villains which ties her to the bunch we’ve seen already) is that she wants for more than is her lot in life. Her flaw is that she can’t live in mediocrity. She can’t accept that the skills she has developed are the best she’s ever going to get. Especially when it’s not garnering the same attention from others the way Master Ox or Master Bear have. It develops this intense superiority complex and innate jealousy within her that she feels she pales in comparison to her colleagues. Which leads to her trying to copy their styles. It doesn’t work, people shame her for trying to be a copycat.
So, she tries a different approach, and see if there’s any new skills she can develop. And wouldn’t you know, she’s heard of all the tales of Master Oogway and his spiritual powers and you know, he invented Kung Fu and is known and loved far and wide, so he had to have done something right! So, she tries to learn chi. She fails. Or, in her mind, she fails. It’s not as strong as she wants it to be, again, working but living in mediocrity. She wants to stand out, she wants to shine.
So, Master Chameleon disappears mysteriously from the kung fu world. Nobody knows where she went or what happened to her, but her village checked her training grounds and all of her pupils (the iguanas/lizards we see fighting for her) are just. Gone. Deserted.
That’s when she pops up in Juniper City. A place that doesn’t know anything about kung fu or its masters, a city she can make entirely for herself. She presents herself to the government/council, introducing herself as the solution to all the crime running rampant through the place, and proves herself by actually showing off her intelligence and skills at apprehending and beating the criminals. It’s not long before she’s hailed as a savior to the city and has the council paying tribute to her and building her her own fortress so that she can train others (in reality, she makes her training intentionally too cruel on the people in the city who volunteered to learn to discourage them so she could sweetly suggest she ask her pupils back at her side) to defend the city more strongly.
She’s basically the kingpin of the city now. She’s manipulated the council into doing whatever she wants. And all along she’s making deals with the criminal overlords for more money and glory and such. The only ones who don’t bow to her is The Den, due to their structure being more familial rather than hierarchal. They fought a lot because of this power struggle, and similar to that drabble you wrote, The Chameleon would be brutal, taking the lives of their friends and such, to the point where the neutral point is Han taking what’s left of his community under ground to keep them protected, and Chameleon considers them too puny to waste her time when she’s got bigger goals.
Namely, Zhen. Zhen was a consequence of all the fighting done, the last victim from The Den so to speak. Only, the little fox wasn’t killed. Similarly to the movie, Chameleon notices her drive and skill and decides she’s worth the time to apprentice, and she needs something to busy herself with, because in the meantime, she’s basically inventing sorcery.
Using chi the way it has been used didn’t work for her. But she heard through the grapevine about Po’s battle with General Kai, how he perverted chi for his own gain, which gave her an idea. She wasn’t going to do it the way Kai had, she didn’t just want the power of their energy, she wanted to take everything from everyone who thought they were above her. Their soul, their skills, their everything. This thought process leads to her true plans and motivations: to be the only kung fu master.
She’s still having some troubles working out the kinks of her sorcery while she trains Zhen, grows close to the little fox. Only, Zhen isn’t like her other students. She’s trained them to be competent, sharp and know their jobs, but Zhen was pushed farther, and took things farther. And once again, that burning jealousy took root in Chameleon as she saw her pupil flourish more than she originally thought capable. There was pride of course at first, molding Zhen to her ideals and image. But the fox turned from student to competition as she began to experiment with her own style. In turn, Chameleon experimented on her. Zhen wasn’t expecting it, but when called to her, Chameleon threw her beta tested move at her…and it worked. That trick we saw in the movie, only it took everything from Zhen, and by the end of it…there was nothing left of her. All of her spirit, skills and even appearance was given solely to the Chameleon. She can only shapeshift into the people she’s absorbed in my rewrite. She hadn’t fully expected it to work, and a small, miniscule part of her felt guilty for doing that to her dearest little pupil who trusted her so blindly. But it opened a gateway for her.
And yeah! I won’t go into everything because I’ve talked so very much but omg I needed to get this out. And it’s necessary, because there are two running themes with kfp villains: they are greedy for more in some twisted goal, and they end up hurting somebody very close to them, there’s always betrayal somewhere. Tying that into her story makes her feel like she’s an actual villain of this universe in my head.
(Sorry this took so long to answer I had to get my thoughts together because OH BOY-)
Holy smokes this is all genuinely so, so good and a hundred times better than what we ended up getting. Because first of all: you turned the Chameleon into a character, instead of just a villain. Not to mention you gave her a motive that gives her complexity and makes her actually interesting (and the audience can't justify, but understand why she's doing what she's doing!). AND YOU MADE HER SCARY! An actual, serious threat! That imagery the description of poor Zhen's fate this conjures is spine-chilling. I wouldn’t mind seeing this version of the Chameleon on screen!
Also the way it actually follows the lore and continuity of the previous movies in a way that makes sense! The running theme of "being the best you you can be"- in this sense, her version is a twisted version of Po's journey; wanting to be the best version of herself...at the cost of all others! I could go on, but yeah this is an awesome rewrite idea!!!
#sorry this took so long!#thank you for the ask!#kung fu panda#kung fu panda 4#rewrite#kfp4#i could ramble further but dang#this was so much better than what we got in the movie 😔#good lord the Chameleon could have been so amazing
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What are some songs that remind you of fresh?
OH OH OH!!! I ACTUALLY HAVE A. cough. Almost seven hour. playlist of songs i associate with him!!! ITS ON SPOTIFY HERE!! some songs are there just for psychic damage like caramelldansen and casin, id recommend listenin on shuffle so u can have the intended experience of going from Hey Ya! by Outkast to Back and Forth by Dr. Steel to Karma by AJR to Purple People Eater. as someone who’s special interest and ID has been fresh for,,, *checks* seven years strong, it’s definitely. The playlist i’ve made of all time
#doodles#freshposting#UGH I LOVE TALKIN ABT HIM SO MUCH DUDE please send more asks abt him bros i need a distraction rn AVSNA;VDNSBFB#EVERY SONG IS ON THERE FOR A REASON!!!#even if the reason is ‘Yeah thatd be funny’#LIKE CARTOONS IS ON THERE BC. fresh doesnt view the people around him as REAL people#like he knows theyre real but he like. cant.. rlly UNDERSTAND or process it he jus sees them as pawns!! and its his way of like#not dealin w like… their emotions or thinkin any further abt it bc he just cant understand ITS HARD TO PUT INTO WORDS BUT I HOPE THE VIBES#THERE like he knows rationally they’re alive but he only rlly comprehends it w very few people (like pacifrisk in canon!!)#HE ALSO HAS A HUGE SUPERIORITY COMPLEX THAT HE DOESNT KNOW IS A SUPERIORITY COMPLEX unrelated to the song but bc of that#HE SEES HIMSELF AS JUST. BETTER. ABOVE. BC HE WAS *MADE* TO BE IN HIS MIND. and that’s why he refers to any of his emotions as like#ITD LIKE. not just having to deal w his own mind turning against him but he also has to deal w. just being like everybody else. he sees them#as WEAKNESS and therefore to him having them means hes weak and turns his entire worldview on his head#EVEN IGNORING THE WHOLE THING W THE HIGHER UPS AND FRESH 2.0 WHERE IF HE STOPPED BEING ENTERTAINING TO THEM HED LITERALLY BE KILLED ND#REPLACED WITH A ‘BETTER’ VERSION WHOS EVERYTHING HE CANT BE BUT REFUSES TO ADMIT IT EVEN TO HIMSELF#ITS ALL SO. MAN people overlook his superiority complex a lot and I think that needs to be explored more in fanon bc itd be a huge part of#his struggle w emotions; and he wouldnt even ADMIT it was a complex bc to him its just. the truth. he IS better. hes above all the ‘weak’#people w their confusing emotions and boring lives and happiness sadness love attachments unchecked anger#hes ABOVE that and bc he cant comprehend it it’s like#watchin animals at the zoo through a thick layer of glass and throwin rocks at them from safety. u know theyre real but they can’t affect u#they can react but theyre helpless and at ur ‘mercy’ for entertainment NOT SAYIN. ANYBODY WOULD DO THIS BUT.#and that in ur mind ur better than them; because youre FREE arent you? you’re not caged#but in reality you’re inside an even bigger glass cage. you’re an experiment just as much as they are. you’re not better you’re the same as#the animals.#HES SO COMPLICATED DUDE AAAGH this is what happens when u ask me one sentence i turn it into a completely different essay on freshs#COMPLEXES IM SORRY AJDBSJFBDKFBDMFBS#HES JUST. AAAHHH STAMPS MY FEET I WAS PACIN NONSTOP AS I WROTE THIS i love fresh so much#I MISS RPING HIM SO BADLY EVERY DAY I SWEARRRRR#it’s just an energy issue unfortunately ADKJSMSBFNBD#asks
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Did you read this interview?
"It’s a chance for Sylvie to burst the bubble of Loki's pomposity. He's always coming up with things that he thinks are profound, but actually, they're not particularly profound.” (The drunk scene and the speech about love)
Waldron went on further to explain
"I wrote that really, really quick. I remember I was revising Episode 3 in the two weeks leading up to my wedding. It’s interesting because that's probably the most romantic episode. At that point, Loki is a little bit drunk. That freed me up, where it was just like, ‘Don't think too hard about it,’ which is sort of my first thought that Loki would think here.”
"I just ran with it, ‘Love is a dagger.' And fortunately, like many of Loki's metaphors, it almost works.”
Everything this man says is so stupid. So this just proves that we aren't wrong for thinking that it didn't make much sense. He didn't even put much effort into it at all. And again he still thinks that everything Loki says is just pompous. He sucks.
No I didn’t see this? Do you or anyone else have a source to verify it? (I will edit this post to include it if anyone can link me). EDIT: @marvelfan-random provided the link: https://thedirect.com/article/loki-tom-hiddleston-episode-3-dagger-love
It certainly sounds consistent with things Mike has said in the past tho. He really doesn’t understand Loki at all and has no respect for the character or his fans. He also takes no pride whatsoever in his work and has an amazingly big ego for such a lazy and untalented writer. (Also I’m still annoyed about that tweet where he said Loki should’ve been shirtless in his intro scene in Avengers. If anyone tweeted that about Black Widow people would be outraged; male characters deserve dignity and respect from the writers too).
He keeps talking in multiple interviews about Loki being “pompous” when he’s really not. Pompous is defined as “affectedly and irritatingly grand, solemn, or self-important” which is different from arrogant or superior. Loki is someone who is deeply defined by self loathing and insecurity which is...the opposite of that. He’s also someone who is genuinely competent. That’s not how Mike writes him though. Mike writes him as overconfident loser who vastly overestimates his own importance and abilities and consistently fails pathetically as a result.
That’s not Loki. Loki is someone who has felt chronically overshadowed and we see even in the beginning of Thor 2011 that he is not well liked, is routinely overlooked and also routinely mocked by the W3. Loki isn’t overconfident. He’s genuinely competent. He has an air of superiority sometimes yes. But that’s different. He acts like royalty not because he thinks he’s important but because he is! He’s a prince! He thinks he’s powerful because he is - he’s a formidable warrior who can hold his own against Thor and a very gifted sorcerer. And he acts like it. Also a lot of his aloof and arrogant seeming behaviors are performative. It’s his way of shielding himself in moments of weakness. Like when he lashes out at the Hulk it’s because he knows he’s lost. When he acts insouciant and aloof in TDW it’s because he thinks he’s about to be executed.
Mike misses all this complexity and is intent on just taking Loki down a peg and making a narrative that consistently disrespects and mocks its central character. I think it’s because he resents that Loki takes attention away from his original characters. And also maybe he just doesn’t like Loki at all because of harmful attitudes he holds in real life. After all he’s made offensive comments about victims having their hearts hardened by trauma and about adopted people all having control issues. So maybe he also projects some of his real life biased and bigoted attitudes onto Loki.
#asks#loki tv series#loki tv series interviews#loki series#loki show#loki tv show#loki 2021#loki tv#Loki Season 1
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Why Jaime Lannister's GoT Ending Was Actually Bad
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Nearly every aspect of the end of Game of Thrones earned ire from the majority of the show and book fandom, but one aspect of the show's conclusion that seems to have frustrated fans across the board was the ending for Jaime Lannister. More specifically, that after a seemingly solid and nearly complete redemption arc, he returned to Cersei and King's Landing to die in a manner that somewhat works as a metaphor but didn't resonate well with the audience at all. And, while Jaime's ending was a flop, it didn't fail for the reasons that many viewers seem to think that it did.
The Lannisters are obviously some of the most complex and important characters in A Song of Ice and Fire, but one of the most interesting aspects of their family dynamic is that it was established far before the contemporary storyline actually began. And, while Game of Thrones seemed to paint it as if Cersei was a source of toxicity that Tyrion and Jaime couldn't get out from under the thumb of, the truth is that the bad apple that spoiled the bunch was never Cersei, it was always Tywin.
One of the most meaningful and important themes of George RR Martin's work is the long-term effects that abuse has on children, and there isn't really any example that is more present and potent than the horrific effects that Tywin's abuse had on all of his children, and how it affected them in different ways.
Jaime, Cersei, and Tyrion all have some of the most intriguing points of view in the entire story. And one aspect that all of their POVs seem to share in common is that while nearly everyone in their world perceives them as a villain, they all see themselves as victims. And the truth is, both sides of this coin are correct.
Yes, the Lannister children have done many horrific, irredeemable things in their lives, but they have also been the victims of extremely traumatic abuse that understandably altered their outlook on the world and on themselves in general. There is a balance between victim and perpetrator that needs to be struck with their characters, but one of Game of Thrones' bigger flaws was its inability to do that.
Unsurprisingly, nearly every character's book point of view grants themselves more sympathy than they should. Almost everyone sees themselves as a better person than they are or is capable of rationalizing away their bad deeds and focusing on their more positive decisions and personality traits. But this is of course one of the many ways in which George RR Martin utilizes his POV traps.
Translating a story that is told through the eyes of the characters themselves and filming it from a more objective third-person perspective means that plenty of important information is going to be lost in that translation. But one of the fatal flaws when it comes to the Lannisters is that, while Game of Thrones does still present Cersei as pretty forthrightly villainous, the narrative pretty drastically whitewashes Tyrion and Jaime. Essentially, it seems to take Tyrion and Jaime at their point-of-view word and treats them like they're much better people than they truly are. Thus, Jaime's ignominious end with the supposed biggest baddie of them all feels like a betrayal of his character development when it really shouldn't be.
Every character needs to be held responsible for their own choices, but the downfall of House Lannister really does rest in the hands of Tywin, and Game of Thrones ignoring that fact did a disservice to every one of the Lannister children in one way or another.
Yes, out of all of the Lannisters, Jaime was as close as Tywin could get to the golden child of his dreams, but it's easy to overlook that while Jaime may have been the favorite on the surface, every single one of Tywin's children was disgustingly mistreated, and the effects of his abuse all showed themselves in different malignant ways.
While Jaime may have gotten preferential treatment over his siblings, Tywin was never anything other than a terrible parent, and more importantly, Jaime's superior treatment only told him exactly how he could expect to be treated if he ever failed to live up to his father's high ideals. And of course, in many big and small ways, he did ultimately fail to live up to Tywin Lannister's exacting standards.
Tywin was a terrible parent because he was an abuser, but he also raised his children with his own values of pride, entitlement, and superiority. Obviously, the notion that they were simultaneously failures who had earned their own mistreatment but were also Lannisters who deserved to be above everyone else is opposing perspectives that are in constant conflict with one another, but it also seems to be how Cersei, Jaime, and Tyrion see themselves as constant victims while still perennially victimizing others.
George RR Martin has repeatedly discussed that one of the strongest themes of his work is the idea of the human heart in conflict with itself. Game of Thrones lost the plot with this in nearly every character adaptation, but Jaime's was one of the worst, largely because he is a character who has done some of the most monstrous and most heroic things in the story. He is both the man who doesn't hesitate to murder a child and the man who stopped a king from slaughtering thousands, and therefore his inner conflict is extremely vital.
Jaime's character arc in Game of Thrones follows a classic redemption arc almost perfectly, but that clearly doesn't seem to be the intent behind the character in the books. Yes, there is a part of Jaime that wants to be redeemed, but he does often revert back to his more brutal and nihilistic side, and his desire for so-called redemption seems to be driven more by how he wants the world to see him rather than how he wants to be.
And in that sense, the show did him a great disservice. Because there are many ways in which Jaime hasn't healed from Tywin's abuse, but the fact that he still seeks the approval of others in a rather superficial manner rather than developing a deeper understanding of true honor and justice is one of the clearest indications that, while Jaime does want to get out of the path that his father laid out for him, he is still crippled by what Tywin told him being a Lannister meant. And ironically, Tywin's belief about what being a Lannister means has essentially trapped all of his children into trying and failing to live up to that example simply because they can't survive unless they do.
Because ultimately, it's not necessarily just about what Jaime, or Cersei, or Tyrion wants. At some point, every single one of them has made obvious indications that they don't want to be a part of the legacy that Tywin Lannister laid out for them. But, when Game of Thrones presented Tywin as a super-intelligent master strategist instead of a completely unnecessarily violent and aggressive asshole, it made all of the Lannister children's choices harder to understand.
Both in the A Song of Ice and Fire and Game of Thrones fandoms, Tywin is typically put up on a pedestal, and that's completely baffling. Many viewers and readers perceive him to be brilliant and badass, but everything that Tywin is famous for actually makes him seem like a complete moron upon further contemplation. Winning battles by absolutely obliterating your enemies is a terrible precedent to set for many reasons, but one of the biggest is that it essentially requires all of the Lannister children to maintain this scorched earth policy because Tywin's hyper-aggressive superiority complex has put them in a position where they almost always have to choose to kill or be killed.
And, his cruel and dishonorable behavior as well as Jaime's reputation as the Kingslayer essentially guarantees that even if Jaime completely changes as a person and becomes the hero he wants to be, he really can't ever become that in the society that he lives in simply because the stigma around the Lannisters is something he can't escape.
That is one of the great tragedies that Game of Thrones failed to articulate, and that is one of the biggest reasons why Jaime's character conclusion was so off-putting to the audience. Because the audience saw the result of where this character arc would naturally go, but the story never actually took the steps to get there. In fact, the show went out of its way to erase a lot of the obvious building blocks that are leading up to both Cersei and Jaime's demise that makes it clear that, while they're obviously responsible for their own choices and actions, the groundwork that Tywin's abuse and cruelty laid and set in stone was something that they couldn't control, prevent, or undo.
Game of Thrones largely presented Jaime's characterization with the implication that if he could only escape Cersei, he would be a good man. But the reality was, if only Tywin hadn't been his father, then all of his siblings would have been better people. They may not have been good, but they almost certainly wouldn't be the kingdom-destroying villains that they became.
I also think the TV series likely bungled his character in that his story is meant to be a subversion of the classic redemption arc rather than the straightforward bad guy to good guy story that Game of Thrones told. George RR Martin obviously doesn't like flawless characters, and nearly every person in A Song of Ice and Fire does good things and bad things all the time, they never go in a straight line from point A to point B. So, of course it was going to be incredibly jarring when the show did move Jaime in a straight line from point A to point B and then abruptly gave him an ending that is probably somewhat similar to his end in the books.
But with that in mind, for all of the faults in Game of Thrones and the way they handled Jaime's character arc, I don't really understand the idea that his character was ruined by his ending either. These characters are clearly designed to never be just one thing, and if Jaime killing King Aerys or trying to kill Bran doesn't singularly define his character, then going back to Cersei in the very end shouldn't either.
#anti got#anti game of thrones#jaime lannister#cersei lannister#anti tywin lannister#asoiaf#asoiaf meta#jaime lannister meta#got meta#my videos#Youtube
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I was drafting a much longer post that meandered around, so trying for a shorter version:
One of the things that I think people sometimes struggle w/ wrt Austen is what she generally calls “consequence.”
Social consequence is related to rank, but it’s not quite the same thing; there are certainly characters in her novels who look down on people who have precedence over them. Rank goes into consequence, but other things do, too. There’s wealth, of course, but you can be wealthy and of fairly low consequence. There’s the origin of whatever wealth you have. There are familial and social relationships with other people that affect it—“connections.” There’s education. There are straightforward power and influence. There are reputation and respectability. It’s really complicated.
It’s interesting that it’s so often mishandled/overlooked/simplified/etc, because the term (in this sense) shows up a lot in P&P.
Winding all the way back to Ch 3, Darcy says:
“I am in no humour at present to give consequence to young ladies who are slighted by other men.”
We later hear of Lydia:
She had high animal spirits, and a sort of natural self-consequence.
Mr Collins of Anne de Bourgh:
“I have more than once observed to Lady Catherine, that her charming daughter seemed born to be a duchess, and that the most elevated rank, instead of giving her consequence, would be adorned by her.”
Mr Collins and Mrs Phillips:
In describing to her all the grandeur of Lady Catherine and her mansion, with occasional digressions in praise of his own humble abode, and the improvements it was receiving, he was happily employed until the gentlemen joined them; and he found in Mrs Phillips a very attentive listener, whose opinion of his consequence increased with what she heard.
Wickham about Darcy:
“The world is blinded by his fortune and consequence, or frightened by his high and imposing manners, and sees him only as he chooses to be seen.”
Wickham about Darcy again:
“He does not want abilities. He can be a conversible companion if he thinks it worth his while. Among those who are at all his equals in consequence, he is a very different man from what he is to the less prosperous. His pride never deserts him; but with the rich he is liberal-minded, just, sincere, rational, honourable, and perhaps agreeable—allowing something for fortune and figure.”
Charlotte wrt Wickham and Darcy:
When the dancing recommenced, however, and Darcy approached to claim her hand, Charlotte could not help cautioning her in a whisper, not to be a simpleton, and allow her fancy for Wickham to make her appear unpleasant in the eyes of a man ten times his consequence.
Elizabeth wrt Mr Collins and Darcy:
“You are not going to introduce yourself to Mr Darcy!”
“Indeed I am. I shall entreat his pardon for not having done it earlier. I believe him to be Lady Catherine’s nephew. It will be in my power to assure him that her ladyship was quite well yesterday se’nnight.”
Elizabeth tried hard to dissuade him from such a scheme, assuring him that Mr Darcy would consider his addressing him without introduction as an impertinent freedom, rather than a compliment to his aunt; that it was not in the least necessary there should be any notice on either side; and that if it were, it must belong to Mr Darcy, the superior in consequence, to begin the acquaintance.
Elizabeth about Bingley’s sisters and Darcy wrt Bingley:
“They may wish many things besides his happiness; they may wish his increase of wealth and consequence; they may wish him to marry a girl who has all the importance of money, great connections, and pride.”
Darcy’s first proposal:
His sense of her inferiority—of its being a degradation—of the family obstacles which had always opposed to inclination, were dwelt on with a warmth which seemed due to the consequence he was wounding, but was very unlikely to recommend his suit.
Darcy at Pemberley:
Never, even in the company of his dear friends at Netherfield, or his dignified relations at Rosings, had she seen him so desirous to please, so free from self-consequence or unbending reserve
Jane and Elizabeth with Mr Bennet after Lydia’s marriage:
But Jane and Elizabeth, who agreed in wishing, for the sake of their sister’s feelings and consequence, that she should be noticed on her marriage by her parents, urged him so earnestly yet so rationally and so mildly, to receive her and her husband at Longbourn, as soon as they were married, that he was prevailed on to think as they thought
Elizabeth wrt Darcy after her engagement:
she was aware that no one liked him but Jane; and even feared that with the others it was a dislike which not all his fortune and consequence might do away.
I mean ... the complexities around consequence and how it shapes character dynamics are super important to P&P. But I think it really often gets reduced to these very general categories or ranked tables or income equivalencies or whatnot, when there are a lot more factors that go into it and influence the characters’ sense of their social world.
#anghraine babbles#austen blogging#austen fanwank#iiiiiiiish#pride and prejudice#it's most often associated w/ darcy which makes a lot of sense#but i think is also why people struggle so much to grasp what his social position would be?#i keep getting linked to attempts to explain consequence purely in terms of a) income or b) rank and finally was just like ... no#fitzwilliam darcy#lydia bennet#william collins#anne de bourgh#mrs phillips#george wickham#charlotte lucas#elizabeth bennet#caroline bingley#louisa hurst#jane bennet#mr bennet#anghraine rants#long post#jane austen
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A thing that a lot of people overlook about Five is that, while he can be stubborn and hardheaded and single-minded, he genuinely listens to his siblings, and he values their opinions enough to evaluate them. Sure, he says they’re all idiots at least twenty times a day and he insists he’s so much better and smarter and older and wiser and more mature and more responsible than them, and he never misses an opportunity to tell them how stupid he thinks they are, but he listens to what they have to say to him.
And, when they point out a weakness or a flaw or a problem he needs to work on, he listens, and he works on it.
Throughout S1, we see him repeatedly and colossally fail to prevent the apocalypse because he refuses to involve his siblings. He refuses to tell his family the truth about what’s going on, where he’s been, what he’s doing, why he’s back, and that blows up in his face in a major way. He won’t come clean and communicate with his siblings until he literally has no other options left. His insistence on complete independence doesn’t, in itself, bring the world to its end, but it’s definitely a central element that speeds things up.
And Luther calls him out on it. Multiple times.
As early as S1, E03, when he finds Five in the stolen van, he says, point-blank, that the reason Five withholds so much critical information from the rest of them is because, “You think you’re better than us. You always have.”
Of course, Five doesn’t listen, but Luther doesn’t let it go--he brings it up again in S1, E05, when he questions Five about Hazel and Cha-Cha, and he adds, firmly, “And don’t give me any of that ‘it’s none of your business’ crap.” And again when Five finally comes completely clean about the apocalypse, and his own failed attempts to avert it: “Why didn’t you say anything? We could have banded together to try and stop this thing.”
Time and again, Luther takes Five to task for his poor communication skills, and time and again, Five refuses to hear him out (“I don’t think I’m better than you, I know I am”) or flat-out shuts him down before he can get going (“It wouldn’t have mattered”).
But Five listens.
He takes in what Luther says to him. He takes a step back and he takes a good, honest look at himself, and he realizes his sense of superiority and his sense of isolation are getting in the way of his mission, his pride and independence are an obstacle he has to overcome, these are things that are holding him back and tying him down, these are things he needs to get rid of.
And, the next time he uncovers pertinent information on the apocalypse - in S1, E07, when he intercepts the missive to “protect Harold Jenkins” - he fills his family in on it, immediately and without a shred of hesitation. (Sure, yeah, he doesn’t mention the massive piece of shrapnel lodged in his side, but come on. Cut the man some slack. Baby steps.)
And he openly asks for help. He asks his siblings to come with him to gather intel on Harold Jenkins. He’s already made it clear a dozen times now that team player really isn’t his style, but he puts that sense of superiority and that sense of isolation on the shelf long enough to do what needs to be done, because he has opened up and listened to Luther.
He still slips up. He still goes lone wolf. But far less so than I think he would have, if Luther hadn’t gotten through to him.
But it’s not just Luther he listens to.
In S1, E09, even after he’s found Harold’s body, even after he’s confirmed, multiple times, that Harold was the trigger for the apocalypse, even now that he finally holds what looks to be irrefutable evidence that the world is not going to end, that the earth is not in danger, he can’t let it go. The apocalypse is all he has--it’s his sole purpose, his reason for being, his raison d'être, if you will, and he remains convinced that the fight is not over, that the world still hangs in the balance.
And Klaus calls him out on it.
Klaus cuts right to the core of the problem in seconds: “I’ve seen that look in the eye of someone who doesn’t know who they are without their high anymore. You gotta just let it go.”
And, just like with Luther, Five doesn’t listen to him: “You’re wrong! You and I, we’re not the same!”
But, once he’s cleared his head and cooled off, he comes back to what Klaus said, and he looks at it through a more objective lens - he takes in what Klaus says to him, he takes a step back and he takes a good, honest look at himself, and he admits, out loud, to Hazel and Dolores, that he does not know what to do with himself anymore, that he genuinely has no life outside of the apocalypse. The only world he knows, the only world he has ever known, is a world on fire. And, for the first time in forty-five years, he has nothing to do, no goal to work toward, and that scares the hell out of him.
So he says goodbye to Dolores and he moves on with his life.
He listens to Klaus.
He takes in what Klaus says.
He realizes that he doesn’t know who he is without the apocalypse, that he has no identity, no sense of self, beyond the end of the world, and he takes the necessary steps to correct this. He makes an honest and earnest attempt to shape an identity and a life for himself outside of the sole survivor he’s always been.
Five is an arrogant know-it-all with a truly massive superiority complex, but he’s not too proud to listen to his siblings and to own up to his faults. He’s not too proud to admit when he’s wrong.
#this was A LOT of words just to say 'five listens to his siblings and i think that's very sexy of him'#a first rate pragmatist ; ( meta )
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Now that I think of it, Belos has many things in common with Grace from Infinity Train. Both are cult leaders, Grace never had the love of her parents and maybe Belos never had the love of his peers. Grace controls the kids of the Apex just like Belos runs the Empire and his Coven. Both have a right hand man (Simon and the Coven member with the owl mask) and that makes me think that like Grace, part of why Belos controls others is because he's afraid of being alone again, to dissapoint others and to go back to being powerless people aka outcasts.
Well! I already liked Grace BEFORE, as a very messed-up yet meaningfully complex and twisted character who ultimately turns around and overcomes her mountain-sized flaws in one of the most compelling redemptions I’ve ever seen!
But this… Oh, this makes me love her even MORE, and I feel almost beholden to you for this beautiful comparison! Again, I’m mostly comparing Grace with my read/speculation on Belos and who I THINK his character will turn out to be… But to look over the wonderfully messed-up similarities;
There’s this shared idea of Grace and Belos being social outcasts as children and wanting companionship, wanting to be surrounded by friends… So they arrive in a ‘magical world’ and they get to work compiling countless allies around them, be it Grace’s Apex, or Belos’ Coven System of followers! But at the same time… There’s this desire to be at the top, to be better than everyone else!
With Grace this additionally came from her parents’ harsh expectations, but otherwise her and Belos have that issue of… Trying to cope with their previous status and ostracization as outsiders, and rationalize their mistreatment in a way that makes sense to them; In a way that’s flattering to themselves while maliciously downplaying those they see as having ‘wronged’ them! Grace decided to see the other girls as jealous of her for being better than them, and perhaps so did Belos… To Belos, he was actually a Chosen One this whole time, he was ALWAYS superior to those who didn’t recognize him! So of course he had to be separate from the rest as someone above them!
So Grace and Belos not only feel entitled to some sort of universal compensation for their suffering, but their desire to be at the top also comes from a position of fear; Because neither are good with feelings, neither are used to letting others in, both are conditioned for rejection and hurt! Being above others in the form of a power imbalance, it allows Grace and Belos both to maintain control and distance from those they get attached to…
Keeping their ‘followers’ at a proper distance thanks to the different positions in the hierarchy, to keep themselves from getting hurt! It’s a way of getting adulation without going through the uncomfortable pain of actually having to open up to others, because the work for unconditional love is too much and too scary for either of them! Not that they could differentiate between reverence from a distance and close, personal love of course… Not to mention, having power and control makes them feel safe and ‘in charge’ of their relationships, like Grace and Belos are always operating from a safe position where they can retaliate and defend if necessary!
By having control, you can keep others from hurting you, and get a handle on them, forcing others to listen to you for once, to open up so YOU can be safe while they can’t expect the same of you because you’re already better… Belos and Grace want others to become dependent upon them, so they can feel good and needed and loved, while at the same time reassured that they’re necessary to those they know and thus can’t be disposed of, even if hated! Grace and Belos see themselves as giving consolation to the desperate and dependent, when in reality THEY’re the epitome of those personality traits! Clinging onto others and hurting them in the process… Like Grace with Hazel, or Belos with –possibly- the Titan itself!
But while they want to be above their friends, Belos and Grace still see the people they surround themselves with as THEIR people, as others they personally understand and relate to, and want to take care of as a result! But they don’t want their beloved subordinates to be at the bottom, and if they want to uplift their subordinates with them (because the idea of hierarchy justifies and makes Grace and Belos feel special), there needs to be others BELOW those they call ‘friends’!
So for Grace, she seeks a scape-goat in Denizens, and the fact that she herself was treated more like a toy and an object by her own parents doesn’t help! She puts the Apex above the denizens, enabling her own friends to be uplifted above others, while still beneath her! And Belos, well… He artificially manufactures hierarchy through his Coven System, restricting the magic of others and deciding that the natural ability to access all forms of magic will now become a privilege that one must EARN if they intend to keep it into adulthood; And his ‘friends’ are his Emperor’s Coven, people he sees as hardworking and ingenuitive like him! Separate from the others because they’re better than that and focus their time onto more important things anyway!
Grace and Belos are both entitled deconstructions of the Isekai trope, dark reflections of your typical Isekai protagonist in that they project their fantasies and delusions onto the new world they enter, expecting it to cater towards their personal desires and needs… Instead of recognizing this new place as its own separate world with its own history and people who are living their own lives and are not beholden to these new arrivals! Instead of seeing the reality of these new worlds for what they are, they bring up what they’d like to see, and then treat it as objective fact!
There’s also –canonically for Grace and in speculation for Belos- a lieutenant that they’re closer to than all others… Someone who welcomed them from the very beginning, the first to give them open arms and provide companionship! But in some ways this person was also their first ‘victim’, the first to be deluded and adopted into this cult of personality of theirs… Grace brought in Simon, while Belos potentially had Kikimora! Obviously the parallels between THOSE relationships aren’t exactly the same, and my speculation on Kiki has her as starting out as the one in charge actually…
But there’s still the concept of someone they’re close to, but they also unfairly keep at a distance while expecting them to open up for them! And both relationships have both participants toxicly enabling one another to varying degrees (though I feel Kiki is more likely to ‘turn good’ than Simon, who never did while Grace at least changed), encouraging the other to bring out the worst and unironically supporting it!
Grace and Belos have that desire to be the center of attention by any and all means, because for so long they were overlooked, ignored, and outright forgotten! Neither like to confront negative emotions, because why let it bother them, feeling sad about it isn’t going to change things! They’re both crippled by an apprehensive fear of rejection… And they operate on a Messiah complex (to varying degrees), with Grace completely misinterpreting her one sighting of ‘The Conductor’, and then preaching a bunch of lies mixed in with her own projections to others! A part of her is doing what she’s convinced herself is truthful, but another part is also being a little flattering to what she wants her worldview to be…
And Belos… Well, I can’t say for sure, but he possibly operated on truthfully being the Titan’s messenger, before he became more invested in what HE had to say, and likewise, I think Belos is at least somewhat aware that what he’s saying isn’t really what the Titan says, but it doesn’t matter because more like Simon than Grace, he’s decided that HE knows better after all! I do believe that like Grace, he’s somewhat willingly lying to create a narrative that sets himself and his own worldview as real and objective, all for his own sake and those he sees as ‘companions’!
In the end, both Grace and Belos operate from a place of willful ignorance, although in Grace’s scenario, her mistakes were at least a lot more understandable in that she WAS a child and had no way of going back to verify what really happened… And then when fully confronted with the truth of Amelia, actually began to change! Not to mention a lot of her entitlement and the idea that she did no wrong likely came from her elitist parents! Whereas Belos, I think by this point Belos is fully aware, or at least mostly, that what he’s saying is nothing but propaganda, that he’s twisting what the Titan actually had to say and is doing so deliberately… Because he’s rejecting the Titan’s message as not fitting what HE wants to hear, again more like Simon than Grace!
I’ve already loved Grace, but now she’s extra-fascinating to me, because she’s like my read on Belos, except she’s actually the main protagonist in this narrative and was actually able to grow beyond her flaws and fix them! I can’t say for sure if Belos will or won’t have that opportunity though… I mean it IS worth nothing that while Grace did kill a LOT of people, I don’t think it’s nearly to the extent that Belos did, and as I’ve speculated before; I think Belos is WAY worse a person than Grace Monroe ever was! It’s like if early into his flaws and mistakes, a younger and healthier Belos was given the chance to change… That’s what Grace is like for me, in a sense, and that just makes her A-MAZING!
Obviously there is the danger of me projecting some delusions and fantasies onto a different reality, as I am describing of Grace and Belos… But even if it isn’t true for BELOS, I think it could be true for Grace! And so she’s that twisted narrative I mentioned earlier, but actually fully confirmed, and so I love this beautiful, messed-up lady and I want to see her get well, her mind is fascinating and she’s SUCH a good protagonist! Good for Grace, good for her that she managed to overcome her flaws in the end and turned out happier for it!
A lot of the times Grace only has herself to blame for her issues in life (and the Infinity Train, Amelia, and Simon too admittedly), but in the end she’s learned to confront herself and start making a change! She learned to see the truth, to set boundaries between what IS her fault and what isn’t, and similarly, not wallow in self-pity but instead make and effort to start turning things around! I’m so proud of her for it, she’s inspiring to me as a symbol of someone who can do SO MUCH wrong, but still make the effort to turn around!
#infinity train#infinity train grace#grace monroe#the owl house#owl house#the owl house belos#emperor belos#character comparison#speculation#ask
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lookism rant #1
so... it’s spring break. and i’ve spent the entire break doing what any smart ap student would do: ignoring my five looming ap tests and draining my phone battery by looking at webtoons and instagram. since most of my favorite webtoons are on hiatus, i have resolved to rereading my favorites, and one that i’ve reread the most so far is lookism. as spring break comes to a finish in two days, i decided to get my life back on track and instead of simply rereading the comic, i will rant about my most and least favorite characters starting with the fandom’s all-time favorite character (yes, if you check the wiki for lookism there is a poll and it is fact that he is the majority’s favorite), jay hong/hong jae yeol. (also, note that these are my opinions so if you disagree with them don’t be offended but i would be happy to hear other people’s opinions on the webtoon! please comment who would be on your list because i need to talk to more people who read lookism!)
top favorite characters~
1. jay hong/hong jae yeol:
let’s just list off reasons why everyone loves him: he is well-dressed (even plans out other people’s outfits), generous (gives daniel literally everything he wants), selfless (he fricking took in enu’s pups even though he is scared of dogs), RICH (main reason for kouji’s admiration), strong (manz uses his systema well), and CAN RIDE A MOTORCYCLE (yes, i love a man who can ride a bike). he may not be the most dynamic character, but his static puppy status makes it impossible for me to put him lower on this list. we honestly don’t know that much about his backstory and i am super curious about why his family relationships are so strained (except with his sister, joy). for now, he remains a mystery, but like an attractive mystery. overall, me -> ( ･_･)♡
2. zach lee/lee jin sung:
honestly hated this boi in the beginning because he was a big bully to daniel, but he has been through some SERIOUS character development. mira was a big part in this but i feel like overall his morals have changed so much even when mira isn’t around. he does still fight often, but now it’s not meaningless violence as he uses his boxing skills to defend his friends (ex: defending johan during the god dogs arc).
i also hated his eyebrows and hair in the beginning of the comic but like that’s personal preference. however, in the last few episodes, his hair looks SO GOOD (reference image above).
he is second on my list of favorite characters because i feel that his development throughout the story has been the most dynamic. he not only changed mentally as he overlooks lookism more (ex: he is not only friends with big daniel but also little daniel) but also physically as he doesn’t simply depend on his inherent talent for boxing but actually goes back and trains again in order to get better (to defend mira >.<)
in the future, i hope to see more development with his relationship with mira and his friends because i hold a lot of high hopes for this boi! ♥‿♥
3. vasco/lee eun tae/tabasco:
BIG CUTIE ENERGY ♥╣[-_-]╠♥! first off, he may not have as much long-term development over the course of the story like zach, but we do see a lot of his development with his own arc and bullying story. he was always a pure boi and his inherent innocence creates a discrepancy with his appearance which makes him more endearing in my opinion. the idea of lookism is very apparent in his character because most people look at him and see him as a gangster or someone very intimidating, but in reality his personality and mindset are very innocent (showing another way that you shouldn’t judge a book by its cover). i honestly LOVED the scene in the god dogs arc in which he defended zach and daniel joins in because that friendship is GOLDEN. i love how he always strives to be stronger and more powerful to defeat the evil in the world because it shows that he truly cares about the weaker people and those impacted by lookism. in my opinion, i think that vasco and zach will end up being the most powerful in the story (but that’s my opinion)
4. mira kim/kim mi jin:
pure! cute! sweet! moral! (✿ ♥‿♥)! mira is just an all-around great gal that makes it impossible for me to find flaws with. although she isn’t super major in terms of daniel’s story, she does impact zach significantly and makes him a better person. like she is the sole reason that zach has become a character that i truly admire and like. (although she did think that daniel was the r-word when he tried hitting on her in the beginning of the story. but throughout the story we see that she isn’t really a person to judge people on looks and stuff as we see that she gives jasmine the benefit of the doubt even after the vasco fiasco)
5. yena/eli jang’s (jang hyun’s) daughter:
honestly too cute for words. like the episodes where zach and mira find her are my favorites so i just wanted to include her in my favorite character list. also, she seems to be a character that really impacts other characters (zach and eli really changed for her ಥ_ಥ)
least favorite characters~
park ji ho:
always doing dumb things and making it harder for the people around him. he tries too hard to be a part of the popular group and as zach said, he doesn’t really think of them as friends because he just thinks about what the benefits are for hanging out with daniel and co. i think we all went from being tolerant of jiho in the beginning and then hating him at the end. i especially hated how he kept blaming other people and yet not accepting when people were being friendly. especially during the fake bank account arc, he just brushed off daniel when he asked jiho if he wanted to go to the convenience store then jiho goes running back to daniel and his friends when he realizes his mistake. overall, -123912830/10.
2. james gong:
don’t even know where to start with this punk. very violent for very little reason! i know i stated before that i hate jiho but i still felt kinda bad for him when he realized that james had sold the bank account he made for him. just overall a very intimidating character that hurt zach (ﾉಥ益ಥ）ﾉ ┻━┻
3. jasmine huh:
needs to get her shit(ake) together. first off, she almost got vasco expelled from the school because of her lies. like big! red! flag! it seems that she really doesn’t care about other people (except james) and is willing to put so many other people at risk to save her own behind. also, i hate how she uses other people. like how she uses mira to make money when mira didn’t do anything wrong ヾ(ﾟдﾟ)ﾉ. i hope she one day realizes that her lies are gonna hurt so many other people and then herself.
4. heemin kim/zeus/creepy dude from the boot camp arc:
sexual assault is a big no in this household. i hate how he thinks that being handsome can defend him of his crimes! also, he broke zach’s arms which made me FLIP OUT. LIKE HOW DO YOU DARE TO HARM MY BOXER BOI. he also attacked mira, an actual angel ლ(ﾟдﾟლ). words can’t describe how much i hate this man but numbers can -> 0/10
5. logan lee/lee tae sung:
big bully energy. he needs to lay his hands off of everyone (especially zoe!). blackmail? big no go in this household. he also dumped his plate of food on mira? BIG NO GO! he needs to get his life together and realize that people don’t hate him because he’s “ugly,” it’s because he has THE WORST PERSONALITY!
6. strong contenders for least favorite: stalker girl, animal cruelty cat mom/hoarder, zoe’s stalker
characters that i need more information about to form stronger opinions about~
vin jin/jin ho bin:
dislike him because he abused enu but also want to know more about him. big bully energy but i feel like he has a deep backstory behind him so i want to know more. why did he quite judo? why does he wear sunglasses? hope he gets over his superiority complex and changes because i feel like he has a lot of potential.
2. eli jang/jang hyun:
so far, very cute and strong is all i have to say about him. also, he is a good dad like that scene where he put out that god dog’s cigarette? MAJOR PROPS TO YOU ELI. i’m very curious about his backstory as well because it seems that he was a contender for gun’s successor but he changed drastically to take care of yena. i also just love a man with good hair sooo…
3. jong gun + joon goo:
i want to know more about these two! like what’s their backstory? why did gun create the 4 big crews? why was goo sent to the juvenile detention center before? (look at vasco’s bullying arc for reference) why did gun leave goo alone with the money collection? overall very mysterious and i want to learn more.
random characters that just deserve appreciation~
crystal choi/choi soo jung:
we stan a strong female character. however, i don’t like how she is immediately prejudiced against handsome men in the beginning of her appearance. i think over time she’ll realize that her prejudice isn’t right and her experience as someone who has to deal with lookism doesn’t justify her immediate judgements. however, we need more female fighters in this story so she is a big yes.
2. duke pyeon:
WE STAN A MAN WHO FOLLOWS HIS DREAMS DESPITE BEING BULLIED AND JUDGED. yes, we stan.
3. daniel park/park hyung suk:
honestly, he’s a great character and all, but i don’t know if he could ever reach favorite character status. i just have a mindset that makes me unable to pick the protagonist as a favorite character because i feel like they are sometimes created specifically to just bring the story together. don’t get me wrong, he’s a great person, defends his friends, and doesn’t fight for no reason, but i feel like there isn’t anything super special about his personality (other than the fact that he has two bodies but like so does crystal). he also looks like kim seokjin in his new body which is a big plus.
4. inu/enu + inu/enu’s pups:
i love dogs
5. mary kim/idk her korean name someone help me:
strong female character? i think yes. honestly such a fav. she doesn’t take sh*t from vin jin and i honestly want to know more about her character and background. *spoiler alert* i read ahead in the korean version and saw that she can beat people up too so like… she’s a bada**.
6. kouji:
as a person interested in computer science, I STAN. i also love a man with good hair. his cocky personality is sometimes off-putting but honestly his confidence is endearing at times. also we both love money!
7. jace park/park bum jae:
during vasco’s bullying story, i was so sad when he left vasco, but i love how he realized that he should’ve been a better friend and has stuck with vasco after all of this time. also love how he listens to vasco and tries to make him happy even when he knows that vasco does some silly things (like planting durian seeds in korea)
8. zoe park/park ha neul:
i love her development! she still fights with herself over whether she should like big daniel or small daniel, which displays her internal conflict with lookism. over time she has stopped judging people solely on their appearance and she is even able to distinguish between daniel and his cousin! (in my opinion, if daniel doesn’t end up with jay he better end up with zoe instead)
9. daniel’s (hyung suk’s) mother:
ICON! WE NEED TO APPRECIATE OUR PARENTS MORE! I AM A BIG STAN! SHE WORKS HARD FOR DANIEL AND IT BREAKS MY HEART WHEN DANIEL DOESN’T REALIZE!
10. song johan:
deserved better. he was just trying to help his mom which makes him so pure! but i feel like he should realize that he has friends (zach and mira) that could help him get through his problems! overall, want to see more of him and i hope he develops even more.
#lookism#daniel park#crystal choi#zach lee#vasco#jay hong#kouji#johan#webtoon#zoe park#logan lee#jace park#mary kim#vin jin#eli jang#james gong#mira kim
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Bonded Chapter 24: Just You
The newest chapter to my Reylo fanfic (rated T). If you want to check out the previous chapter’s, here’s the link to AO3!
“S-sir?” The technician stutters, sounding confused, like he doesn’t understand the question.
Kylo Ren sighs inside his mask. He stands at the end of the meeting room, his back to the man, facing a giant window that overlooks the bustling port below.
If he has to repeat himself one more time today…
He whips around abruptly, so abruptly that the technician nearly jumps out of his skin. The man is still trembling, every bit as much as when he first entered the room not five minutes ago.
“What,” Kylo articulates the word through gritted teeth, “can you tell me about the Lords of Asphodel?”
“Ah.” The technician widens his eyes as if he understands now, but he’s clearly still confused. “The Lords of Asphodel, yes.” He repeats with false confidence. “They are…” His eyes drift to the ceiling as his voice trails off. “A gang? In the Outer Rim?” He supplies tentatively.
Kylo stares down coldly in response, letting the room fill with a crushing silence.
“Where are you from again?” He finally speaks, sounding irritated even through the distortion of his mask.
“F-Fornax, sir.” The technician stutters timidly. “I-in the Mid Rim.”
“Get out.” Kylo commands tersely as he turns back to face the port. A second passes, and he hears nothing.
“Now.” He articulates the word at a low growl. Immediately, the sound of footsteps recedes to the end of the room. A door whirs open, then shuts just as quickly.
Kylo sighs, more heavily this time. He stands with his hands clasped tightly behind his back, gazing down at the port below, alive with the activity of throngs of black-clad figures— technicians, engineers, supply workers— anonymous faces darting to and fro in a frenzy of motion that looks like chaos but seems organized nonetheless.
He shakes his head.
Over a thousand. A thousand.
That’s how many names were submitted when he first put out the call to every officer and manager in the lower ranks of the entire First Order.
The request was simple. Identify at least one person per unit who’s overqualified for their current position— by education, by skill, or by intelligence. Someone who’s a strong communicator, who shows promise in leadership, and most importantly, is familiar with Outer Rim planets and politics.
A thousand names, a thousand possibilities.
A team of officers spent the last week vetting the pool, whittling it down to five hundred, then two hundred, then fifty, and now fifteen.
Fifteen finalists. Supposedly the best in all the lower ranks, precious gems in a sea of insignificant pebbles.
And he just spent the last hour watching twelve of them tremble like children as they stuttered out their histories and gave ignorant answers to his questions.
Kylo tightens his jaw.
Idiots. Small-minded fools.
He honestly didn’t expect anything different. This past hour… it’s only been a confirmation of what he already knew.
The lower ranks of the First Order are filled with rubes, people with no concept of the galaxy beyond their own little corner of it, their backwater home planets and their menial roles within this organization. They aren’t fit to represent the First Order and its mission in any capacity, much less to oversee a complex negotiation process with lawless, guerilla groups in the Outer Rim.
No. This was a mistake. A waste of time. He doesn’t need some moron who spends most of his life doing routine maintenance on supply transports.
He needs Rey.
Suddenly, his thoughts halt, interrupted by the crackle of his master comm at his belt. He reaches for the comm and presses a button.
“The next one has arrived, sir,” a voice announces through the static. “Shall I send him in?”
Kylo pauses, looking down at the comm in his gloved hand for a few seconds. Then he brings it up to his mask.
“No,” he commands decisively. “Send him away. Send them all away. The interviews are done.” He drops his hand.
“Yes, sir, straight away.” He hears the response just as he returns the comm to his belt. He clasps his hands behind his back, resuming his cold observance of the port.
He watches the black-clad figures scurry along their paths. Each one is focused intently on his task, on the tiny slice of responsibility allotted to him, oblivious to all else, blind to the bigger picture, how he is part of a much larger whole.
No.
These people… None of them are the kind of negotiator he needs. They’re no more fit than any of the superior officers.
These Outer Rim groups are a rough lot. Violent, aggressive, rebellious by nature. He needs someone who understands this, who understands how people can become this way. He needs someone who knows what it means to scrape by to survive, someone fearless, someone who could stare down the barrel of a blaster pointed in their face without blinking, someone who won’t be easily intimidated but also someone soft, someone personable, someone who listens.
And as far as he’s concerned, there’s only one person who truly fits this description, who is exactly what he needs.
He sighs as he thinks about her, pictures her in his mind. He sees her on the Falcon, criticizing his indiscriminate destruction of the Outer Rim rabble, challenging his use of holos to cast them all as violent gangs when the truth is much more complex. What was it she’d said to him?
“You may be able to fool the galaxy but you can’t fool the people living in these systems.”
He sighs, shaking his head.
She was right.
It gives him no joy to admit it. But she was right.
They’re already having problems in Salient and Felucia, especially Felucia. The vast majority of population was downright revolutionary after they took out the Brotherhood. They’ve had to flood the system with troops and set up a temporary blockade just to keep the planets from descending into utter chaos.
Salient’s not much better. There haven’t been as many riots, but it seems a Zidon-like network is already forming. Local minors are pilfering a significant portion of the Varium they extract to illegal traders. He just gave the order to discharge all local workers from their mining teams, a very unpopular move with the locals and an inconvenience to the First Order. The mines on Salient are particularly labyrinthine and difficult to navigate. The locals know it by instinct. But outsiders? It could take them years to learn…
Without thinking, Kylo lifts his hands and unclicks his mask, bringing it up and overhead, his skin craving a respite from its suffocating prison. He takes a deep breath as he turns from the window and walks a few paces to the long, rectangular table in the center of the room. He sets the mask carefully on its surface before pulling out a chair and sinking slowly down onto it, covering his eyes with a palm.
He sees it now. He sees his mistake.
He was so eager to consolidate power throughout the galaxy, control all of its resources, that he neglected to think in the long term, to truly consider the consequences of destroying groups worshipped as heroes by the local population.
He slides a gloved palm over his face, stopping at his jaw, gripping it between his thumb and index finger.
He thought it would be more efficient just to destroy them all and manage any large-scale blow back with holos. Now he sees it’s the opposite. Nothing makes this more obvious than comparing the resource extraction in Delphon verses Felucia.
The government, practically the entire population of Delphon, is bending over backwards to give the First Order anything and everything it needs to mine its ores. A quarter of the former slaves, people who were forced to spend years of their lives in the mines, have voluntarily joined their extraction teams to help them navigate its tunnels.
But Felucia? Despite gaining access to the system’s mines nearly a full month before Delphon, they’ve only just begun the extraction. With all the riots and bombings, they’ve spent half their time just trying to keep the damn mines open and safe to work in.
Yes, he sees it now. He sees that if he wants to establish a strong, lasting hold over these systems, it’s necessary to work with the local populations, not against them.
And to do that, he needs a negotiator. For organizations like Zidon and the Brotherhood… He needs someone who can get him access to a system’s resources without starting a damn rebellion.
But there isn’t a single individual in the whole of the First Order who’s up for the task.
He drops his hand from his jaw and rests it on the table in front of him, twitching inwardly.
It’s just one more sign, one more indicator of the cold, hard truth.
The First Order isn’t ready. They’re simply not ready for this transition, what they need to become.
For years, from the very beginning, they were only a war machine. Power was the goal, wrenching it from the feeble, incompetent hands of the New Republic to see the vision of the Empire come to fruition, achieving true order throughout the galaxy.
But they were so concerned with getting power, they rarely considered what they’d do when they got it.
Well, now they have it. And he is the one who needs to think about this question, about what to do with the power they worked so hard to achieve. He is the one who needs to transform a primarily martial organization into an effective governing body.
He must bring about a change.
He needs to invest less effort into war and more into diplomacy. He needs to stop making enemies and start making allies. He needs to make decisions not only for the benefit of the First Order but for the benefit of the galaxy because now these two things are aligned.
But this change, the necessity of it…
Sometimes he feels like he’s the only person who recognizes it.
So much of the leadership still sees the First Order as a war machine. They cannot think, cannot reason beyond the martial sphere, beyond the need to build weapons and armies, to squelch rebellions and destroy their opponents.
They still need to do these things. But this can’t be all they are anymore. Not if they want to actually keep the power they fought so hard to win.
Kylo sighs heavily, feeling crushed under the weight of this responsibility, under the reality that he must do this alone.
For now.
He sits back in his chair, crossing his arms. He gazes across the long, rectangular table for a few moments before rising and walking back to the window overlooking the port. He stares down, drifting, drifting deep into thought, so deep he no longer sees the image before him.
He only sees Rey.
He needs her. He just needs her.
It’s not that he can’t manage this transition on his own. He can. But things would go much more smoothly if she were here. He’d get things done right the first time. She would be here to help him see what he can’t, to help him think through all possible scenarios, all possible outcomes, and make the best decisions.
But she’s being so damn stubborn.
How can she be so blind?
How can she not see that she’s meant for this, that she is meant to rule beside him, to help him transform the First Order into what it needs to be?
She’s already doing it. Unofficially. She can’t seem to keep herself from doing it. He knows there’s a part of her that yearns for power, that yearns for ability to reshape the galaxy to be different, to be better. She just refuses to recognize this in herself, to honor what it means.
Does she really think she’s meant to devote her life to serving a lost cause? Or saving an insignificant handful of slaves on Outer Rim planets?
How can she not see that what happened on Delphon is just the smallest taste of what she could accomplish if she joined him? She claims to care so much about life in the galaxy… So why is it that she outright rejects a position that would grant her immeasurable power to serve life on the grandest of scales, to make decisions that would affect billions?
He just can’t understand it. He can’t understand her unwillingness to embrace her destiny.
This stubbornness of hers, this dogged blindness…
It is the only thing. The only thing holding her back from giving in to what they both want.
At this, he closes his eyes and bows his head, suddenly overcome by a rush of emotions, that powerful yearning tugging at his heart with the deepest, cruelest ache, an all-consuming desire, maddeningly unfulfilled, all the more maddening because he knows how much the feeling is shared, how much she wants the exact same thing. If she would just let herself have it, just open her eyes and see the truth…
It’s driving him insane. This waiting, having to restrain himself, to keep his desire at bay.
He just wants to go to her. Just jump on a ship right now and go to her, refuse to leave until she comes back with him.
He is so sick of waiting for the bond to bring them together. He wants her here. Right now. Today and every day after it.
He clenches his fists, focusing on this feeling, this desire, as though he could will it into reality through the power of his thought alone. It churns. It aches. It burns in him. It’s so intense that he hardly feels it, almost misses it, when that subtle feeling seeps in at his core, the gentle warmth that starts small then grows little by little, bringing the force of her presence with it.
He immediately drops his arms, his eyes flying open. He can’t stop the thought from flashing across his mind.
Did he just… trigger the bond?
No. Surely not.
He turns away from the port, already searching for her, this thought lingering in his mind, how uncanny it is that this is happening just when he was thinking about how much he wants her here.
Maybe it’s a coincidence. He’s thought about it before and nothing happened. But maybe something was different this time? Or maybe something’s changed, or is changing…?
Before he has time to fully consider these questions, he sees her materialize before him, just to the right of the long table in the center of the room.
She’s standing, calm and relaxed, head bowed, her arms hanging loosely at her sides. After a moment, she looks up, straightening a bit, her eyes alert and expectant.
Kylo can’t stop a smile from tugging at his lips.
He senses it.
She’s happy to see him.
Read the rest on Ao3.
#star wars#starwarsfanfic#starwarsfanfiction#firstorder#kylo ren#kylo x rey#kylo redemption#rey star wars#ben solo#ben x rey#romance#romancefanfiction#enemiestolovers#starwarsromance#reylo#reylo fanfic#reylo fanfiction#reylofanfiction
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About saying Star Wars is Buddhist or Taoist -- I don't believe SW has been created by practicing Buddhists, and the appropriation has absolutely been problematic (there can be white and non-Asian Buddhists because it *is* a proselytized religion, but I don't know of many on the creative team). However, a twitter thread I saw about the subject was written by a South Asian Buddhist who *wanted* more recognition of Buddhist themes. I've also seen Buddhist websites write about TLJ.
Also, lj-writes insisting that SW is about moral dualism while being one of the strongest condemners of TLJ for rejecting moral dualism, doesn’t really add up. IDK their faith but their post ends with “Christianity is good enough!”. TLJ has surface symbols of Buddhism and Taoism AND themes of anti-classism, non-dualism, action returning to the actor, the Middle Way, skillful means, etc. And they see it as a deeply wrong entry in the saga. So it feels like this is lowkey “keep SW Christian”?
Long, long, disgressive answer under cut
About saying Star Wars is Buddhist or Taoist – I don’t believe SW has been created by practicing Buddhists, and the appropriation has absolutely been problematic (there can be white and non-Asian Buddhists because it *is* a proselytized religion, but I don’t know of many on the creative team).
As you said Buddhism is open to all as a religion – and I think it’s also important to note that someone can be interested in the ideas and philosophy without active religious practice, and that’s there nothing wrong with that. I’d actually say it’s good to be interested in other cultures and religions, that it helps to confront the fact that one’s values are not universal (and not ~better or ~superior)
But I also think there is a difference to be drawn between Buddhism, the real thing, and the watered down (for Westerners) new age version of Buddhism
With this established – Star Wars wasn’t created by Buddhists, though among the creatives involved some had a certain appreciation for it: I don’t know about current members of LF and its creatives, but Irvin Kershner studied Zen Buddhism and had an appreciation for the philosophy; Gary Kurtz, who was more involved than most in helping Lucas with the firsts SW drafts, was interested in comparative religion, and Buddhism especially – I think he actually converted. According to himself, Gary Kurtz helped Lucas defining the Force (among other things); but they had a, hum, falling out and it seems Lucas dropped much of what Kurtz had been pushing for afterward (for example, according to Kurtz, he convinced Lucas to drop the Chosen One element in the ANH drafts, but as we know it would be reintroduced).
But then there’s Lucas himself, and we’re gonna enter actually problematic territory. First, Lucas does call himself a Buddhist – well, he calls himself a ~Buddhist Methodist (Methodism being the religion he was brought up in), with such justifications as "that’s what my daughter said when the school asked" (paraphrased) and “I was raised Methodist. Now let’s say I’m spiritual. It’s Marin County. We’re all Buddhists up here” (quoted verbatim). Honestly the Marin County thing I find… The Bay Area and Marin County being a place where so-called “alternative religions” flourish and where new age spiritualism established itself strongly starting in the 60s really doesn’t make everyone there “Buddhist”, thank you very much, and pretending so at the very least betrays a lack of understanding of what Buddhism actually is.
Still, I must note being flippant about the reasons behind one’s religious beliefs is nothing bad in itself! Lucas is under no obligation to disclose these reasons if he doesn’t want to, no more than anyone else.
But looking at Lucas’ understanding of Buddhism, or lack thereof – well, to do that we need to look at Lucas’ views on religions in general, views deeply influenced by Campbell, who was a shitty scholar of comparative religion, and pretty explicit about both having an agenda (the salvation of a modern, Western man alienated by his own modernity), and the fact that he was an adept of the “pick and choose what fits my ideas and ignore the rest”. In fact, as early as his first book, he was anticipating and deflecting methodological criticism in the introduction:
“Perhaps it will be objected that in bringing out the correspondences I have overlooked the differences between the various Oriental and Occidental, modem, ancient, and primitive traditions. The same objection might be brought, however, against any textbook or chart of anatomy, where the physiological variations of race are disregarded in the interest of a basic general understanding of the human physique. There are of course differences between the numerous mythologies and religions of mankind, but this is a book about the similarities; and once these are understood the differences will be found to be much less great than is popularly (and politically) supposed. (Introduction to The Hero With a Thousand Faces, Joseph Campbell)
There’d be a lot to say about this passage – it’s not how you answer criticism or justify your methodology. Campbell shows here he’s perfectly aware that his focus on “correspondences” is in itself grounds for criticism. The thing is, in itself focusing on similarities is not “wrong, don’t do that ever” – but in conjunction with the overlooking of differences, it’s a choice that should be explained and justified as an approach for the concerned study. Campbell’s preference for exploring similarities is not inherently bad; it’s the fact (and this is the Cliff notes version) that it’s done in conjunction with a complete disregard for differences, as well as by relying on an ethnocentric framework of interpretation, among other things. Like not justifying his approach – “Once these [similarities] are understood the differences will be found to be much less great blah blah blah” is not a justification, it’s a polite way of saying everyone who doesn’t agree just doesn’t get it.
(And I disgress but like. This book was published in 1949. So when he’s comparing his lack of focus on differences to the lack of focus on “physiological variations of race” in anatomy texts, there is no fucking way he didn’t know what he was referencing, ie the terribad, rooted-in-prejudice physical anthropology of the 19th and early 20th century, and he wrote that after fucking WWII. “There’s no scientific racism in textbooks” is the way he defends giving the flying bird to methodology. I don’t even know what to do with that. Did Campbell thought textbooks should get into “physiological variations of race”? He’s not exactly framing that absence as a good thing, and he’s decontextualizing it, making it sound like an oversight rather than “we tried to take the racism out of the textbooks.” Is he, along with the “it’s political” hint subtly accusing his anticipated detractors of racism, equating the rooted-in-prejudice focus on “physiological variations of race” that was already considered non-scientific when he was writing, to saying differences in myths should be taken into account? In any case it’s a false equivalency. A stunningly bad one.)
Thing is, whether comparative should emphasize similarities or differences is something about which there’s been discourse for years. Nowadays we lean more towards particularism, ie. emphasizing differences. Of course, both approaches have their own pitfalls – the same main pitfall, in truth, which is that focusing exclusively on similarities or on differences erases the true complexity of a phenomenon. But it should be said the current leaning towards particularism has much to do with the uncomfortable admission that much of the thinking behind the emphasizing of similarities was rooted in prejudice:
The problem of the same and the different has become a crucial issue within the field of comparative mythology and for the self-definitions of postmodernism. […] we must acknowledge that the emphasis on likeness, often epitomized by its critics in the same metaphor that James Tate uses to defend it (the metaphor of not seeing in the dark), has done great harm in the history of the study of other peoples’ cultures. Occasionally the metaphor is used to make a positive statement about sameness; thus Francis Bacon, in his essay “The Unity of Religions,” argued positively for the mutual resemblance of religions: “All colors agree in the dark.” Almost always, however, it is pejorative. […] Even without the metaphor of cats or cows in the dark, the assumption that all members of a class are alike has been used in many cultures to demean the sexual or racial Other. (I capitalize Other in the anthropological rather than theological sense, designating people regarded as nonhuman because of their ethnic difference, rather than the deity that is other because of its metaphysical difference.) After all, the essence of prejudice has been defined as the assumption that an unknown individual has all the characteristics of the group to which he or she belongs. “People like you,” or “They’re all alike” is always an offensive phrase. Racism and sexism are alike in their practice of clouding the judgment so that the Other is beneath contempt, or at least beneath recognition; they dehumanize, deindividualize, the racially and sexually Other. […] We speak of racial discrimination, but the myths teach us that the real problem is racial indiscrimination—the unwillingness to discriminate between two different members of another race, the tendency to regard them all as doubles of one another. […] It is this perverse use of the doctrine of sameness, applied to both texts and people, that the comparatist must overcome in order to argue for the very different humanistic uses of the same doctrine. (The Implied Spider, Wendy Doniger)
I may sound harsh on Campbell, but the methodology issue does matter, especially because it comes with an agenda, and because of Campbell’s own influences (and personal politics, however much he liked to pretend being apolitical):
For there is no doubt that the three mythologists [Jung, Eliade, and Campbell] here under consideration have intellectual roots in the same spiritual climate as that in which early fascism and sometimes antiSemitism flourished: Nietzsche, Sorel, Ortega y Gasset, Spengler, Frobenius, Heidegger, the lesser Romanian nationalists and German “volkish” writers and, before his courageous rejection of Nazism and exile, Thomas Mann. Most of these just named were not fullblown partisans of their respective national fascist parties; some, such as Nietzsche, would have condemned political fascism as utterly contrary to the heroic individualism for which they stood. So also, by their own later testimony, did the three mythologists. Yet there is in that climate and the three mythologists an unmistakable common intellectual tone: antimodernism and antirationalism tinged with romanticism and existentialism. This subset of modern thought is deeply suspicious of the larger modern world, as that world was created fundamentally by the Enlightenment (despite, as we shall see, their embracing of some themes, like nationalism and the purifying revolution idea, carried over from the Age of Reason’s turbulent finale). Above all, the romantic antimoderns decried modernity’s exaltation of reason, “materialistic” science, “decadent” democracy dependent on the rootless “mass man” its leveling fosters.
In contrast, they lauded traditional “rooted” peasant culture, including its articulation in myths that came not from writers but from “the people,” and they no less praised the charismatic heroes ancient and modern who allegedly personified that culture’s supreme values. Above all, one felt in these writers a distinctive mood of worldweariness, a sense that all has gone gray—and, just beneath the surface, surging, impatient eagerness for change: for some tremendous spasm, emotional far more than intellectual, based far more on existential choice than on reason, that would recharge the world with color and the blood with vitality. Perhaps a new elite, or a new leader capable of making “great decisions” in the heroic mold of old, would be at the helm. (Ellwood))
(It’s no surprise Campbell loved Star Wars when he finally got to watch it – hero’s journey or not, the resonance with his own ideas is much deeper: the yearning for a lost golden age (the remembered pseudo-democratic Republic) full of culture heroes (the Jedi) now replaced by technological oppression (the Empire); even the ~primitive had their role to play in overcoming that oppressive system, if literally rather than through myths, etc, etc.)
I’ve said before the influence of Campbell’s Hero Journey on SW, especially ANH, has been much overblown, and it has – in part because early on, the early history of SW(/ANH) was itself heavily mythologized as a way to legitimize it as a product of an intellectual approach, a product of high culture rather than low (popular, see Bourdieu) culture. It didn’t come from Lucas at first, but rather from critics trying to explain the success of a movie so deeply steeped in popular tropes and themes – hence the idea that the resonance of the movies, their popular appeal, have been carefully engineered, mapping a pseudo-universal narrative pattern.
So why do Campbell’s views even matter? Because Campbell is a major influence: Lucas rarely mentions anyone that’s not Campbell when he’s talking about his views of religion or mythology. I’ve found Jung here and there (and of course much “[X social science] says…”), and it’s very possible I missed names – there’s a lot of interviews and talks and what-have-you out there. Nonetheless, Campbell is clearly Lucas’ main reference; more than that, he’s a mentor figure. Lucas’ Yoda, as he himself says, and in a sense the man who initiated him. He’s also a ‘precursor’ – the mythicized forefather, the man of erudition whose invocation automatically lends legitimacy to Lucas’ own words on mythology and religion.
For Lucas, all religions relay the same moral values, the same understanding of good and evil. If they don’t seem to (and really they don’t; “good” and “evil” are not universal concepts. They don’t have a one-size-fits-all definition. Different cultures conceptualize and define those terms differently, and not only do those concepts and definitions change with time, but “a culture” is not a monolithic entity in which all members agree on everything either. For terms as loaded as “good” and “evil” -or “bad”, because arguably, not all cultures have a concept of “evil”-, there are a lot of competing definitions with more or less in common), it’s because the observers stop at surface details, missing the underlying truth – meaning anyone who disagrees on this view of religion just doesn’t get it, which is the kind of mindset that leads you to explain to people they don’t understand their own religion. But you, the educated, liberal Westerner (I mean Lucas, who has a high opinion of himself as being, well, an educated liberal dude frequently misunderstood by people less intelligent and less talented than him, and absolutely presents himself an authority on religion, myth, and anthropology, which he is not), you do. It’s a somewhat circular reasoning:
I believe in (x) god/values and that this belief is universal (people may say differently but really, they believe the same things I do, how could they not? They’re good things. The best things!)
Studying other beliefs (by focusing only on similarities and presuming it’s all about my beliefs under the surface) reveals, amazingly enough, that my beliefs are universal. What a surprise amirite.
I have the beliefs I have because they are universal, and since they are universal, they cannot be questioned.
To go back to the specific Buddhism issue, that’s how Lucas approaches it. He doesn’t give a whit about what Buddhism actually is, its values and its philosophy. He doesn’t need to: he already knows that, like every other religion, those values, that philosophy, correspond to his own beliefs. Opinions not needed, because that verisimilarity is only seen by the enlightened.
(Which comes down to erasing people’s actual beliefs across time and space to defend the notion that, conveniently enough, everyone the world over shares Lucas’ christian moral values (or is getting there because it’s the natural end of the processus – which would deserve a few paragraphs in itself because that’s related to the concept of linear cultural progress, another thing rooted in prejudice and shitty, outdated anthropological notions.))
All that to say that Lucas is just about as Buddhist as me (I am not), and that fuck yes we’re in problematic territory, way more problematic than is usually acknowledged. I probably didn’t need to write so much about it (well there’d be more to say, in fact, but that’s quite a bit already); it’s not quite what you asked for but there it is nonetheless.
However, a twitter thread I saw about the subject was written by a South Asian Buddhist who *wanted* more recognition of Buddhist themes. I’ve also seen Buddhist websites write about TLJ.
I think the discussion over Buddhist/Taoist themes in the OT and PT is a different one than the one about these same themes in the ST, simply because it’s not a Lucas product. I absolutely understand wanting more recognition of these themes when they are present, and I think Buddhist themes introduced in the current trilogy can bring about a new interpretation of the… spiritual elements in the story and the universe (arguably already happened), changing how we receive the full saga (I’d even argue that it’s part of what makes SW a modern myth: myths do not care for their author; they spread and grow and change through both social and individual forces. Myths change through their tellers and their audience; it’s how they endure and remain relevant and meaningful. A myth is never just one story – it’s literal and symbolic and full of shadowy spaces that leave room for new, unprecedented readings.)
But that doesn’t change how much Buddhism did or didn’t influence Lucas when he was making his own movies, conceptualizing the universe and its spiritual tenets.
I’d also argue (and that’s something I feel strongly about) that it’s very much possible to apply a Buddhist lens to the text in any case, because doing so doesn’t require for the text to intentionally feature those themes. The author is after all, mostly dead. But I do think there is a difference between “this text can be read through a Buddhist lens, and here’s how” and “this text is Buddhist”.
Also, lj-writes insisting that SW is about moral dualism while being one of the strongest condemners of TLJ for rejecting moral dualism, doesn’t really add up. IDK their faith but their post ends with “Christianity is good enough!”. TLJ has surface symbols of Buddhism and Taoism AND themes of anti-classism, non-dualism, action returning to the actor, the Middle Way, skillful means, etc. And they see it as a deeply wrong entry in the saga. So it feels like this is lowkey “keep SW Christian”?
I found the post I reblogged while doing research for a meta/essay (which I will probably never post) and I only gave a cursory look to the blog, so I don’t quite know OP’s position on TLJ – nor can I speak for them on the way they articulate it all. I understand that you wouldn’t want to ask them directly, but I can’t talk for them either
The way I personally read “Christianity is good enough” (which, for the record, has nothing to do with my own religious beliefs because I’m hardcore atheist) was more of a “there’s no need to pretend SW is stepped in Buddhist/Taoist thought rather than Christian – because there’s really nothing wrong with that in itself”. And really there isn’t. A Christian inspired mythos is just as fine.
(The thing is that often enough, the idea that SW is better for being steeped in Buddhist or Taoist rather than Christian values is not fully unrelated to what I’d call the “Magical Oriental Religion” trope, and I find any attempt to hierarchize religious beliefs deeply dubious and reductive, and also, you know, kind of offensive.)
To conclude – SW is about moral dualism, and it’s not like Lucas never literally said so, have an example:
“The Force evolved out of various developments of character and plot. I wanted a concept of religion based on the premise that there is a God and there is good and evil. I began to distill the essence of all religions into what I thought was a basic idea common to all religions and common to primitive thinking. I wanted to develop something that was nondenominational but still had a kind of religious reality. I believe in God and I believe in right and wrong.” (Lucas, quoted in The Phantom Menace Scrapbook, Ryder Windham, emphasis mine.)
But! We don’t have to read SW as dualist, and most importantly it doesn’t have to keep being written this way (see: TLJ), but that’s not gonna change that it *is* how Lucas conceived it, and that it can hardly be retconned without rejecting Lucas’ definition of the ever-famous balance:
The core of the Force–I mean, you got the dark side, the light side, one is selfless, one is selfish, and you wanna keep them in balance. What happens when you go to the dark side is it goes out of balance and you get really selfish and you forget about everybody…(Clone Wars Writers’ Meeting, 2010, transcription from here (x), emphasis mine)
(This is way too long already, but send me another ask and I’ll get into early ANH drafts and Force Jesus and his apostles, selflessness as sacrifice and the recompense thereof in the afterlife, the rejection of bodily things and pleasure and a bunch of things that make it hard to not see SW (or I guess Lucas’ SW) as deeply steeped in Christian thought)
#i ran circles around your ask#there's just so much to say#and it's not the least complex subject matter either#anon#ask#star wars#george lucas
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I never tried to argue that traditionally feminine girls are superior than others. I didn't try to argue Sansa is a superior character either. Actually, I don't think I'm using the expression "feminine traits" properly and it's deviating from my main point, so let's just say Sansa's or Dany's or Arya's aspects. In earlier seasons, Sansa is portrayed as stupid. Cat rolls her eyes at a potential marriage with Joffrey (which downplays Cat's political ambitions), (show!)Arya says "Sansa can keep...
… her needles, I’ve got my own", Joffrey calls her stupid, ect. What do we miss? How empathetic she is to Sandor (GoT gives his lines to LF), how she can be charismatic to others, how she can act kindly and yet lie to try to survive (Dontos shows up late and Sansa is saved like a damsel in distress in GoT), how she has a potential knack for diplomacy and is being taught politics (no, let’s focus on Ramsay’s story and let her be raped to become a hardened, strong woman). Those are the traits…
I’m talking about, they’re not necessarily feminine, they’re Sansa’s and they’ve been downplayed. Now that (many, not all) show!fans are seeing the “stronger” Sansa, how does she act? Emotionless and vengeful. Does she have the right to act this way? Yes, but I don’t think that’s who Sansa is, and I’m seeing a pattern. Dany has been the main Strong Female Character from the beginning. Do we see her laugh, cry or have a crush on Daario like in the books? No, she has to be emotionless and…
and vengeful. Arya cried trying to go after Cat and Robb, do we see that? Do we see her starved to the point of eating worms or finding dead corpses everywhere? No, because she’s also a Strong Female Character, she’s not supposed to be affected even though she’s in a war zone. And, while Cersei tells Sansa in GoT that her weapon is what’s between her legs, does she use it? Is she as angry as her book counterpart? No, she’s emotionless and vengeful, because she’s also a Strong Female Character…
Cat is not politically astute in GoT (she’d have wanted Sansa to marry Joffrey) because well, that’s a man’s aspect, huh? And she’s allowed to be a mother, but she’s not considered a Strong Female Character by a lot of show!only fans. GoT doesn’t let those female characters be who they are in the name of what they think is a Strong Female Characters. Still, the point I tried to make in my original ask was that femininity is not valued by the NARRATIVE. I’ve already talked about why I think so…
… and I used other female characters to make sure I’m not implying they’re “lesser” than Sansa. I didnt try to argue Arya didnt suffer, but I dont think GoT showed her suffering properly. Remember the coin killing? In the books, Arya did it to survive. In GoT, she did it for vengeance. Emotionless and vengeful. Arya, Brienne or Yara don’t suffer for not fitting in. Also, I doubt Sansa would be refused by the Northeners (not in that way, at least). A lot of their men were killed…
… killed in the Red Wedding. Not revolting and being fine with Ramsay is being fine with their murders (and that’s not even counting kingslaying). Besides, the books show how Sansa is charismatic, something that’s not in the books either. I bet she’d convince them without having to be a political mastermind, as you I said. I’m not trying to argue she’s perfect, but her qualities are overlooked by GoT. If other fans of hers defend her by using other arguments, I don’t know.
Just wanted to make my ideas clear. I think we’re criticizing different aspects of a complex situation, so whatevs.
I definitely think we are criticizing different aspects. The post that prompted you to start sending me these asks was a post disagreeing with an article saying that Sansa is not valued for her traditional femininity in WESTEROS. You started making this about how the narrative doesn’t value traditional femininity, and I still don’t agree with you. It isn’t traditional femininity that is devalued. It is women. Women are devalued. The point of my post was that Sansa, and women who conform to patriarchal values, are not the ones who suffer the most under patriarchy.
The idea that Sansa is stupid perfectly supports traditional ideas about femininity. Making cat less political and ambitious and reducing her to a mother role where she is chastised for not knowing her place is valuing patriarchal ideas of femininity.
There is nothing, absolutely nothing, wrong with Arya reclaiming something that was used against her by patriarchy and making it her own. This is not an attack on femininity, this is Arya reclaiming femininity and defining it in her own terms, not in patriarchal terms. It is an awesome, feminist moment that comes straight from the books. Four for GRRM on that one.
Joffrey treats Sansa like she’s stupid (and Arya) and we are not supposed to agree with him. We are supposed to see Joffrey as unambiguously terrible.
As for Sandor and Dontos and Ramsay, I agree, but you said it yourself. These aren’t specific gendered traits, they are Sansa’s. And a lot of other female characters are mistreated on the show, whether they conform to patriarchal femininity or not. Because another key value of patriarchal femininity is that women are treated like lesser human beings no matter what traits they posses. The show values patriarchal femininity by constantly treating its women badly.
And as I said before, vengeful ice queen Sansa is another patriarchal stereotype, because they’ve sexualized her in the process. They haven’t made her “masculine”.
Sansa’s qualities are overlooked by GOT, yes, but so are other female characters, and it doesn’t have to do with how well they adhere to patriarchal norms. The show writers and the actors also say things about how Arya is emotionless and consumed by revenge and we shouldn’t be rooting for her. They reduce her to having no emotions and then slam her for having no emotions, because women who don’t show emotions do not get special privileges.
I still think that book Sansa would be dismissed in a similar way, as she is in the books by Stannis, as being not a Stark. This has nothing to do with the show devaluing Sansa or not portraying her positive qualities. It isn’t about Sansa’s lack of ability to convince them to follow her, it’s about the fact that she is a woman who has been “soiled”. It’s about societal misogyny. In the book, the Northerners don’t rally around Jeyne Poole pretending to be Arya, either. Some of them try and save her, but not because they value her, but because they value protecting the innocence of “Ned’s precious little girl”. I think if Jeyne went to the Northern lords pretending to be Arya and tried to convince them to make a political move, the same thing would happen.
Edit: Part of the problem here is that there are so many definitions of “femininity” and people use it in a way that is exclusionary in order to say that certain women need more support than others. That’s not true. There are so many different ways to be a woman and no “type of femininity” suffers the most.
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Book Review and Reflection on Persecution Complex
Journal of An Alien Street Priest:
Persecution Complex
Why American Christians Need to Stop Playing the Victim
by Jason Wiedel
Reflections and Book Review
"Wisdom has built her house
she has carved its seven columns,
mixed the wines and set the table.
She has sent her servants to invite everyone to come.
She calls out from the heights overlooking the city.
Come. eat my food,
and drink the wine I have mixed.
Leave your simple ways behind, and begin to live;
learn to use good judgment."
Proverbs 9:1-3, 5-6.
The predominant narrative among many Christians in the United States today is one of persecution. A Church in Los Angles has sued the government and won, to be able to open up for in door services; Several Roman Catholic Churches in San Francisco are simply acting like junior high's in disregarding the pandemic lock down--"we are being 'persecuted.'" This false narrative of persecution is damaging our witness, and our ministry of sharing the love of Christ with the world. It is placing needless lives in danger. I was once asked if I did not believe that God "protected me", and my response was that God gave me a good mind, and that mind informs me of the danger of the virus, we are to protect ourselves. Wear your masks, maintain social distance, wash your hands!
As we enter the season of political conventions there will be a lot of attention placed on Christianity (our candidates will all carry Bibles in their brief cases), and we will see that the threat of religious persecution "lite" is one of the most powerful ways of motivating people to action. And we are stirred up to believe the false narrative that our survival is at hand. And this particular political persuasion is THE ANSWER.
There are six damaging reasons of the persecution narrative: 1. We feel and act superior to others; We justify antagonism; We dehumanize others; We eliminate conversation and debate; We become immune to criticism; and We ignore the real problems of human suffering.
When we come to believe that our own problems, and the needs of America, are the most desperate, we lose sight of the needs of the world, and we fall into the persecution complex and than we persecute others. We not only overlook the real suffering of so many other people in the world but also those literally under our feet, and we also become blinded to the kinds of suffering we create through our self-centered addiction to fear, which especially now is a real reality.
In Matthew 25 we are given by Jesus a parable about the judgment of humanity. It has a surprise ending because Jesus explains that it is not lots of religious activity or adherence to particular doctrines, or beliefs that pleases God--it is feeding the poor, clothing the needy, and caring for the sick. Justice--spelled out.
Jesus calls us to love our enemies, and to lay down our lives, "No one has greater love than this, but to lay down one's life for one's friends." He is not meaning "white", "black", "red", "brown", "green" "purple" or Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, atheist, rich or poor, friends, but that all people are our friends-- like it or not.
Jesus' example is that of non-violent self-sacrifice. His way of giving until his last breath ultimately exposes his enemies, who would oppose him with strength and violence, as impotent. When the soldier at the cross said, "Surely, this man was the son of God," he was seeing that the might of Rome, which crushed Jesus and ended his life, was actually empty. Jesus' way of peace and humility is what truly held power.
Laying down our lives means that we give ourselves wholly to the needs of those around us. We do not demand that they cater to us, be grateful, or subservient, we love them, we serve them. Let us asked not what our fellow humans can do for us, but ask what we can do for our neighbor.
Each person be they Democrat, Republican, Green, Independent or Polka Dot, are equal in the eyes of God. We can disagree, we can not like each other's candidates, but when the arguments are cleared we stand holding the bag in our hands, and our responsibility is to work in love and respect with one another. Easy, no! Necessary yes!
For you see each day I see people on respirators, sick, and terrified; each night I see young adults on the streets, who are hungry, ill, lonely, dirty, depressed, and in walking with them the political fighting falls away, "the persecution complex" is nil, and whatever you call yourself does not matter--what matters is do you feed, clothe, comfort, house and care and in so doing we hear the words of Paul:
Philippians 2:1-11
Have the Attitude of Christ
2 Is there any encouragement from belonging to Christ? Any comfort from his love? Any fellowship together in the Spirit? Are your hearts tender and compassionate? 2 Then make me truly happy by agreeing wholeheartedly with each other, loving one another, and working together with one mind and purpose.
3 Don’t be selfish; don’t try to impress others. Be humble, thinking of others as better than yourselves. 4 Don’t look out only for your own interests, but take an interest in others, too.
5 You must have the same attitude that Christ Jesus had.
6 Though he was God,[a]
he did not think of equality with God
as something to cling to.
7 Instead, he gave up his divine privileges[b];
he took the humble position of a slave[c]
and was born as a human being.
When he appeared in human form,[d]
8 he humbled himself in obedience to God
and died a criminal’s death on a cross.
9 Therefore, God elevated him to the place of highest honor
and gave him the name above all other names,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue declare that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father. Deo Gratias! Thanks be to God!
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Donations Needed:
We are in desperate need of socks, food, masks, and so your gifts would be appreciated. But regardless, what we have learned through the years it is not that the food, clothing, socks or masks that are remembered, but our presence, simply spending time, listening, and caring for each person individually. That we do in season and out of season. We do money or no money. We do virus or no violence. Thank you for your prayers, your gifts, your kind emails, and your snail mail.
This book we have reviewed and commented upon I encourage you to read, especially during this season of political division and need. You do not have to agree with it, but listen, meditate, and let its message speak to your heart. You certainly do not agree with me all the time, and I know I do not agree with you either, but what I do know and I shout this from the roof tops is that I care for you, and have your best interests at heart in and out of season, even if you support the Polka Dot Party. Ultimately all that matters is that we are children of the One God.!
Fr. River Damien Sims
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Temenos Catholic Worker
P.O. Box 642656
San Francisco, CA 94164
www.temenos.org (pay pal is located here)
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