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piltrafas · 2 years

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I have no doubt I'm misreading, overthinking a lot of it, you might disagree with your own phrasing or my interpretations, etc and as you say, you apparently don't recognize in yourself the biases I mentioned, and that's fair, I don't know you so I can't judge.

Don’t worry about it. I don’t mean to come off as defensive, I was genuinely confused by your comment and wanted to know what you were thinking.

This whole thing with approaching someone on anon is pretty aggressive by default. The fact that I’m voicing an opinion that is offensive in this particular space emphasizes that tone even more. So… I expect a negative reaction.

Plus, people generally enjoy feeling righteously indignant. I play that game too. It’s not a big deal.

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Is the fear that they will break up with you eventually? I genuinly don't understand what the wariness is about.

I wouldn’t call it fear so much as a struggle to take them seriously. Being okay with being gay is not a universal experience for me, but lately it has occurred to me that my perspective is likely warped because I almost always date conservative gays who were either formerly part of a fundamentalist religion or still actively part of one in some way. I’m not doing this on purpose. It’s a recurring coincidence that I haven’t been conscious of until recently.

This just comes across to me like you're projecting, that maybe if you could choose to be in a straight relationship you would and you can't see why everyone else wouldn't.

Yes, I am projecting. I have been dating men for the past two years trying to make a straight relationship work. At this point I know for sure that it won’t because I started getting physically repulsed.

Everyone else’s mindset here does not sound realistic to me. It comes off as someone lying about their level of commitment in order to either experiment or get laid.

I don't know how you think of sexuality so we might be operating on completely different frameworks here but I think if you wanna make out with women, for quirky reasons or otherwise, then you're not exactly straight to me. (To each their own, I'm not gonna tell anyone how to identify, just a personal appraisal I guess). You said you knew someone like that, but I don't, so I'm not sure how one defines who fits the stereotype.

Getting involved with the “quirky stereotype” person was an embarrassing situation for me because red flags were everywhere. This person was not stable. She killed someone’s pet as a power move, apparently. I’m not certain about this rumor but it’s not hard for me to believe. I do know for certain that she has stolen a lot of money from mutual friends.

I ignored the red flags because I was lonely. Maybe you’re right and it’s rare to encounter partners like this. A lot of these problems had nothing to do with being bi. But the whole thing is an Experience. I felt used and it’s something I can’t help but constantly look out for.

Even virulently homophobic communities have queer people existing, living content, if private, lives.

This is not my experience. When I was in high school the closest thing I had to a gay friend, up to that point, was a Mormon who got sent to what I’m pretty sure was conversion therapy. (We were not out. We were not a couple, but other people regarded us as one.)

She disappeared and went off the grid without an explanation during our sophomore year. She broke down crying at school one day and was gone the next. This was in 2010. I did not hear from her again until 2018, when she contacted me under a fake name on Facebook messenger. I can copy-paste for you part of what she said to me:

Sophomore year was my last year at ______. Parents put me in hospitals and rehabs (2 hospitals before I was 18, 2 after. 1 residential rehab as an adolescent, 2 as an adult). I did online high school and graduated with a class of 42 people in 2013. Got engaged at 18. Broke it off 2 months before marriage. ... after 2 hospitals and 1 rehab, I weighed about 100 pounds. I was taking 9 prescriptions all at max dose and 3 over fda approved amounts. 18 pills a day. I did this for a year. 2015. I did not exist. They said I had schizoaffective disorder, bipolar type with mixed episodes, and pure o ocd.

She smoked weed a few times. She didn’t need to be in rehab, and Mormons use their own church-affiliated doctors. When I approached our mutual friend who was a part of that same church, she told me that this friend is a chronic liar. I don’t know what to believe because 1) it sounds too extreme to be real and 2) I don’t feel like I’m talking to the same person anymore.

When we were in middle school this friend who later went to rehab used to slit her wrists. She also used to carve the name of a boy into her ankle and re-open the scabs with a sharpened stick so that it would scar. That never struck me as evidence of drug use. It struck me as someone who was struggling with their sexuality.

Look. I’m not giving you a sob story as a maneuver to win pity points and use them a free pass to say whatever I want. If you want to get mad or offended, that’s fair game. I won’t get pissy about it.

The reason I’m bringing this up is because if you or anyone else has seen or heard of anything like it, then I need to know. Because I can’t find tangible proof of similar situations anywhere and it’s alarming.

I feel like something similar happened a second time with someone I dated from a four square church as an adult, but it was not as extreme. (The disappearance was not unexpected and only lasted a few days.)

But I’m not certain if that’s what really happened. It’s entirely possible that I’m just overly cynical and making assumptions about what’s going on.

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In regard to your words on therapy: I’m spending a lot of money on it and I’m lying to my family about where I am when I go to appointments. I’m fairly certain there will be an ugly fight if they figure it out.

I don’t know if it’s really helping me. I’m still making up my mind. So far, it has just been sitting and talking and having this person periodically prying for details on shit that feels horrible to talk about.

The reason I get so exasperated at the suggestion is becaue I don’t think it’s genuine. “Go to therapy,” is the sort of thing people on twitter will tell you in a smugly condescending tone if you say something that pisses them off enough. And of course, the message is never “This is a genuine suggestion that might help you.” it’s “I’m implying that you’re mentally ill in order to discredit your wrongthink.”

But, again. Maybe that’s not so much the intention here. Many of the anons who responded to my ask were clearly well-intentioned. I just don’t understand why my own worldview comes off as so bizarre.

I don’t feel like I’m talking to a well-rounded sample of queer people. I feel like I’m talking to a lucky minority that has been living in a protective bubble; one that isn’t really seeing the world as it is. Any sensible bi person would not choose this.

Being okay with being gay is not a universal experience for me Everyone else’s mindset here does not sound realistic to me

I guess this is kinda the center of all this. I'm okay with how I am, and yet I'm perfectly willing to believe someone when they tell me they are not. What's keeping you from doing the same? I guess this is more general because it applies to any interaction like this. e.g. for me it's people without mental illness saying they've never been suicidal - still sounds fake to me, but I understand that's a consequence of my own brain I don't assume they're lying or delusional. I've made a fool of myself enough times that the sheer diversity of the world has been kinda drilled into my head by force. I think having felt like an outsider in many groups throughout my life also gave me that, because if I was there, with completely opposite views to what I was seeing in front of me there's bound to be more, and all sorts of experiences in-between.

A lot of these problems had nothing to do with being bi.

Yeah. Still. She sounds… challenging.

I felt used and it’s something I can’t help but constantly look out for.

That's understandable. We all live and die by our own experiences, etc. I haven't had that yet, so it's not something I brace for.

But honestly? If the worse you're gonna do with all these feelings is opt out of dating bisexual women I think you're doing pretty good. I think the key with this kinda stuff is to not try to make it anyone else's problem. Without that, it's just a thought in your head that isn't hurting anyone (beyond yourself, I guess, if you were questioning your own bisexuality)

This is not my experience.

I get that it's not, but you don't get to decide this doesn't happen at all because of that.

But listen, I want to make it clear that barring incarcelation and gay men getting beheaded or thrown of roofs and shit like that… forced instutionalization and conversion therapy sounds about as nightmare-inducing as you can get when it comes to being queer. Of course we all sound out of touch!

Because I can’t find tangible proof of similar situations anywhere and it’s alarming.

I've certainly heard of conversion therapy before and some horrifying stories about medical abuse from trans people especially. I have friends who might be more informed about this kinda stuff so I'll see if I can find specifics. But for what it's worth, I don't think this is the part you're making assumptions or being cynical about. That is more about what you think is going on inside other people's heads.

The reason I get so exasperated at the suggestion is because I don’t think it’s genuine.

Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. Like you very accurately described, there's a particular type of person that uses “Go to therapy,” to tell off people they think are freaks. That's very common with antis, for example. Franzeska is not only not an anti but further along the proshipper side than even proshippers are comfortable with, so I guess it's just very obvious to me, that it's a very different vibe from that, but if you're not familiar then maybe that doesn't come across. I think the key is that you could randomly grab any person that suggested therapy and say "I want to but I don't know how to go about it", then chances are they're gonna provide some sort of assistance or words of encouragement. That's how you can tell it's genuine. But yes, the "go to therapy" as a mallet used to beat people down is a thing, maybe it's even been discussed before on OTN's tumblr I bet.

I just don’t understand why my own worldview comes off as so bizarre.

I think the context of your environment helps. I am no longer baffled.

I don’t feel like I’m talking to a well-rounded sample of queer people.

… You aren't. I don't know why you'd think you'd find that on Tumblr? On OTN's blog? That's a subsection of a subsection of a subsection. About as niche as it gets.

I feel like I’m talking to a lucky minority that has been living in a protective bubble

I mean. Lucky minority, certainly - considering the atrocities that are commited against queer people worldwide - but you got answers from people talking about their fucked up environments and how they still don't hate themselves. How do you reconcile that? I mean, you've made it clear you can't right now, and that makes sense. But you mentioned you're moving sometime in the future so I'd be curious if any of this changes once you're out of your current environment.

Any sensible bi person would not choose this.

They would. Dunno how sensible any of us are. When I was in my own little hellscape of homophobia I certainly adapted to that - the consequences of being queer in a queerphobic society, even one not as extreme as yours, can be pretty bad and I'm not the martyrdom kind. I never, not for one second wanted to change myself. I wanted to beat people to death with my own fists sometimes. I admit it all made me angry and bitter, but it wasn't self-directed. Perhaps it's an inherent self-centeredness I have or the ego rearing it's head, who knows.

In any case, those people that would have gotten me kicked me out of school and outed me and harrassed me and perhaps even assualted me are still out there. About a decade removed from that one of the families lives two houses away from me, actually. As soon as I couldn'd be punished for it anymore I stopped giving a shit about anyone finding anything out.

Still, the fact that they see me in church every now and again doesn't change the fact that they know I'm an atheist, and the fact that they see me with men sometimes doesn't change the fact that they know I'm queer. Anyone that will make your hypothetical bi girlfriend's life difficult because she's into women will most certainly make her life difficult when she's with a man. Unless you completely uproot yourself and move to a different city and cut off everyone you know, sluttying it up with women when you're young will follow you around, homphobes don't care if you did it 'cos you thought it was quirky ime.

#I was gonna give you links to replies on otn's tumblr i thought were interesting but there's zero organization #and she answers 35 thousand asks per day #so i'm lazy #but i saw some interesting stuff from older people specially if you haven't seen #bad queer blogging

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