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#God even in real life I have to get news from spn?? someone make a
scoobydoodean · 1 year
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I didn't have much interest in the prequel because John and Mary aren't caracteres that I like very much they are badass as hunters but terrible parents ( Jody and Bobby became better parents to the boys). But now I want to start to watch it, because Dean ending was bad and boring, for the members of Team free will only Sam got a decent ending, Dean die young just to writers reaffirm his suicidal tendencies what is a example for fans that dangerous mental health trigger because just show that people with suicidal tendencies can't change mind and choose another will to live. Cas the angel who start the show as a stone cold soldier and turn into someone who understands emotions and even become a father, show his true happiness only to be sucked by the empty and get a name mention in the finale just : hey guys so remember cas? Jack saved him, were is he? Just forgot to tell his family that he is back. And Jack who only is a 3 years old, naive to everything and a being who just wanted to have a family and be accepted becomes the new boss and said: bye boys I won't do shit to you guys anymore, see ya chumps
Jensen really talk to his wife lady and said honey let's get our money power to turn this fanfiction rewrite into a real thing let call the old homies except Jared because if Sam is so happy there so let's just keep him there
Yeah I didn't have any interest in watching it either originally.
I never thought Jackles was going to glorify John and Mary as parents, which I did see a lot of people suggest, but the premise of a show about them didn't appeal to me much. I figured it would house some sort of backdoor escape for Dean because it's obvious Jensen didn't like the finale and had hinted many times about not seeing Dean as dead and bringing him back, but I just intended on following along through the grapevine instead of watching it. However, I kept stumbling upon bronlies (who are, in actuality, very very hardcore Sam stans and J1s who only consider Dean (and often JA) an accessory or a little pet for Sam (JP)). They were being really gross about Dean and how Supernatural is only about Sam, and Dean is just his little pogchamp emote and basically all but saying Jensen isn't allowed to make a show with Dean in it absent Sam because Dean isn't important and only exists to glorify Sam, etc. I got irritated, so I started a countdown 1, 2, 3 and third next post I saw from them being vile little gremlins meant I started watching The Winchesters lol. Then some of the finale spite started coming through and I was invested in figuring out exactly what JA wanted to say with all of it, regardless of whether I'd end up agreeing with him or not.
If you aren't sure if you want to commit to the whole thing or not (not that it's really all that much TV to get through), if your interest is finale spite related, I'd recommend you watch the 9th and 12th episodes.
I actually disagree that Sam got a decent ending in the SPN finale. Of course Dean and other characters got worse endings than Sam did, but the ultimate narrative about Sam painted by the SPN finale is that he is a failure or is deeply, deeply selfish. He was also hamfistedly shoved into a life that he was not interested in anymore, and treated as if that was actually what he wanted all along and Dean had to die for him to get it. (Bronlies don't understand the show, etc). His love interest is replaced with a blurry woman, and his house is devoid of photos of the living except his son who is named after his dead brother. Also that wig was fucking embarrassing as fuck.
I agree about Cas and Jack. I would add about Cas that the finale spit in the face of his sacrifice (and the lack of reunion, even as someone who was never invested in destiel, is absolutely unforgivable to me). I would add about Jack that him ending up as god is extremely disturbing because he and Dean mirrored each other within the trauma of being forced to grow up too fast just to be what other people needed them to be/to survive. To end the show with a three year old who already felt he had to be born as an adult in order to survive, taking on the responsibility of becoming god (and also subsuming and erasing another Dean mirror, Amara, in the process) is repulsive to me.
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shamelesslymkp · 1 year
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The Cask of -Amontillado- I mean, Destiel
for @newleasemylove!
(this was intended to have more but i'm using the beta post editor and it's giving me a headache, i need to switch back but i already added a bunch and don't want to delete everything i already put.)
(please check out my pinboard for moar.)
N.B. these recs are not in any way comprehensive or exclusionary of any of the other amazing destiel and spn fics in existence; this is quite specifically a list of fics meant to entice the 'i don't even go here' crowd, as tested on my dear friend @arrows-for-pens
Come here, dear reader. I have some lovely and completely non-life-destroying fics to recommend to you.
Let's start off a few universes over from canon.
bendingsignpost - Cinderwings - Supernatural [Archive of Our Own]☑ https://archiveofourown.org/works/12847041
Under the cover of a masquerade ball, Castiel has five nights to recover the key to his people's freedom. The world has changed greatly in the six centuries since their banishment into the void, but the task isn't impossible. Unfortunately for Castiel, this is going to involve talking to people - especially the Knight Prince who has taken an interest in Castiel and his "costume" wings.
bendingsignpost - [SERIES] talk - Supernatural [Archive of Our Own]☑ https://archiveofourown.org/series/1380490
As a grease monkey turned college freshman, Dean's constantly three seconds away from being stressed out of his mind. It hardly helps that he's finally figuring out his sexuality in his thirties. What might help with that stress is a little phone number (and a big credit card bill). If he can't figure out how to be bisexual in person, he can at least give it a go over the phone, right? (It's probably a bad idea, but he really can't help himself.)
And now let's start moving back.
bendingsignpost - Dean Winchester and the Goddamn Kill-Steal - Supernatural [Archive of Our Own]☑ https://archiveofourown.org/works/20837732
Another raid on a hub of demonic activity, another case of Dean finding every last one of the bastards already dead with their eyes burnt out. The new and unnerving trend is royally pissing him off, but at least he's always able to blow off some steam these days too. Hooking up with that traveling business guy was an awesome move.
Amiril - The Mixtape, Or: Six Things You Learn in Thursday School - Supernatural [Archive of Our Own]☑ https://archiveofourown.org/works/30585971
History passes into legend— but without the Winchester Gospels, that legend must be assembled from the notes of Prophets and Hunters. Human society and the English language may take a few wandering turns along the way, but one thing is a constant: people will always argue about Canon. Or: God got beat up and replaced by his grandson. You could make a religion out of that. (Words: 6,240)
sobsicles - according to all known laws of life - Supernatural [Archive of Our Own] https://archiveofourown.org/works/29207901
Cas comes back. It's not exactly the reunion that Dean is expecting. ~~~ Dean stares at him, flummoxed. Cas quite literally poured his heart out to Dean, gave a truly sappy and distressingly romantic speech and everything, then proceeded to give his life so that Dean could live his. And he wants to act like he doesn't want to see Dean, be around him, touch him? Actually, Dean's ninety-nine percent sure that Cas probably wants to fuck him, and while he has no clue how he feels about that, he's pretty goddamn sure that means Cas doesn't get to act like this and make it authentic. It feels strangely real, though, as if Cas wants nothing more than to get as far away from him as possible. This is a blatant contradiction. Even someone as weird as Cas doesn't want to get away from the person they have the desire to fuck five ways to Sunday, that they're in love with. That's not how these things work, so Dean isn't buying it.
adaille - Pray for What You Need☑ https://archiveofourown.org/works/14674776
Asmodeus imprisons and impersonates Castiel, forcing Dean to confront his feelings and figure out what he needs from the angel.It takes him a while.### Cas was angry, Dean knew that. He’d been angry ever since Dean fought with him over his re-involvement with Lucifer. The whole I’m-gonna-go-off-alone-and-search-for-the-fallen-archangel plan seemed ill-advised, and perhaps Dean could’ve toned his protest down, but the sentiment stood. In Dean’s defense, they just got him back. It wasn’t fair that the universe needed saving, again. Always again, and again, and again. Cas was dead not even a month ago, lost to the Empty, and Dean just wanted him to take it easy for a bit. Stay safe. Stay here. With him. With him and Sam, that is. Or you know, just him. Whichever. Either, or. (Words: 26,648)
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mlobsters · 15 days
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supernatural s15e2 raising hell (w. brad buckner, eugenie ross-leming)
what's up with that chain, sammy
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spn 14x20 moriah giving disney haunted mansion
i'll be honest, i don't really understand this souls from hell / ghosts combo situation. goofy fucking cg on the souls. ghosts of s1 monsters
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ah yes, the hell-ghost all hands meeting
is rowena flirting with castiel again? asked the same question in 14x14:
14x14 no clue what the exchange (would say flirting but to what end, to make cas uncomfortable or actual flirting) between rowena and castiel was about.
great. ketch. very tan business casual and with some new wacky weapon. and i guess they're going to have a show-recognized moment of flirting between rowena and ketch.
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oook. captions and script say she says "you!" but all i hear is "ew"
CHUCK So, how about the "Game of Thrones" ending? Pretty great, right?
choosing to interpret that as petty chuck shade because what writer thought that was a great ending :p
DEAN This mess... all the messes. It turns out that we're just hamsters running in a wheel our whole lives. What do we have to show for it, huh? Tell me you don't feel conned. God's been lying to you, Cas, forever. You bought into the biggest scam in history. CASTIEL You don't think I'm angry? After what Chuck did? After what he took from me? He killed Jack. But that doesn't mean it was all a lie. DEAN Really? CASTIEL Chuck is all-knowing. He knew the truth, he... he just kept it to himself. DEAN Well, now that his cover's blown, everything that we've done is for what? Nothing? CASTIEL Even if we didn't know that all of the challenges that we face were born of Chuck's machinations, how would we describe it all? We'd call it "life". Because that's precisely what life is. It's an obstacle course, and maybe Chuck designed the obstacles, but we ran our own race. We made our own moves. And mostly, we did well with that. DEAN Did we? I'll tell you what we do know. Nothing about our lives is real. Everything that we've lost, everything that we are is because of Chuck. So maybe you can stick your head back in the sand, maybe you can pretend that we actually had a choice. I can't. CASTIEL Dean. You asked, "What about all of this is real?" We are.
i mean, i can see where dean's coming from. going to start questioning everything you feel even when knowing someone was behind the wheel setting up every important moment in your life. and never knowing if you in fact had any wiggle room to make any decision or feel any feeling that wasn't preordained. think cas is being realistic slash optimistic, but also relatable how dean's feeling. if you can truly blame a singular being for sending you to hell for 40 years, killing almost everyone you care about, torturing everyone you care most about, etc -- all for god's entertainment? gonna be pretty fucking mad
spn 15x02 / nda by billie eilish
so fucking dumb and random but here i am watching and i'm like THAT SCREECHY NOISE! it's so fucking similar to the beginning of the song NDA. that song is the first in my main playlist so i hear the start of it more than normal (because often i'm obsessing over new songs at the end of my playlist so i won't have it on shuffle)
~this is why i can't watch a fucking episode in less than 3 hours sometimes~
just have to laugh every time osric chau pops up. get that bag, friend
DEAN Chuck said he was sending you to Heaven. KEVIN Yeah, what he said, not what he did.
????? okay
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cut back to hell-ghost all hands. this plot is LITERALLY making me do this while i watch. didn't i just stick up for you, late seasons? they're not much worse than the other seasons, i said. are you trying to make me look like an ass??
ROWENA The dominating, analytical enforcer... you... and the pulsating, throbbing firebrand... me.
pulsating, ok. little more than i needed to know, rowena
this soul sucking thing with the showdown and the shooting ketch and playing the music like i'm supposed to be sad about ketch getting hurt... woof. and this kevin business is also so random and ridiculous. and i didn't like the amara plotline the first time around
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i hope this episode is not an indicator of the season to come.
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yourfandomfriend · 1 year
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The Empty Dragon
I wanna bother you with a plot bunny, even if I never get around to writing the fic. It’s not going into the tags. It’s just for whoever I give the link to. Crowley fans.
@casinthegarden
For years now, I’ve been brewing a plot for a SPN fic series set in The Empty. It begins at the moment of Crowley’s death-- at least, from his perspective, that’s when it begins. Instead of getting dragged down to nothingness, he gets shanghaied into a medieval fantasy world called, “Meta-Land.”
He finds out the place was created by Metatron. Unlike the other residents of the Empty, who lack free will and imagination and aren’t big readers, Metatron has vast knowledge of storytelling. He’s capable of world-building, literally, and his dreams in death are a beautiful story-driven world, so big and real and detailed that he can pull other residents of the Empty into it-. Accidently at first, but over time he’s pulled in all our favorite angels and demons to play knights and warriors and bards and wizards and trolls.
The catch is, they don’t have the powers they had in life. Most of them live like humans, emotions and all, and he uses joy of earthly pleasures as a bribe to get them to stay. Ultimately, the fear of returning to nothingness keeps them playing along and avoiding death but many aren’t happy about it.
Metatron’s cast himself as the King Arthur of his world, naturally, but it’s chafing him that there isn’t a Mordred -- a real theatrical villain -- to play against. Someone with the brains and creativity and style to give him a real challenge. So he deliberately summons Crowley into his world and tried to sell him on the idea of playing his villain. He’s not out to hurt Crowley but he’s not good with boundaries, either.
After everything Crowley’s just been through, he doesn't wanna play. He doesn’t wanna feel or try or think too hard about who and what he’s lost. Or, god forbid, gain something new just to lose again. He doesn’t wanna be alive in any way. He just wants to sleep, forget his heartbreak, and pretend he doesn’t care. But Metatron won’t let him leave the Timeshare Presentation until he’s satisfied.
So, Crowley makes up his mind to travel as far as he can from Metatron’s castle, in a straight line, and keep moving until he can’t anymore. A conscientious objector and the only sock in this puppet theater that isn’t afraid to walk away from Omelas.
Metatron sends all kinds of allies and obstacles and adventures and cool stuff and annoying shit after him to prove to him that this place is fun. Or, at least, to be so irritating Crowley will wanna fight him on principal. But one of the cool things in Meta-Land wasn’t of his making.
There’s a fuck-off dragon flying placidly over the land. Not a human-looking dude in a suit like on earth, but a fairytale dragon, big and black and having a very nice time. It turns out that thing is the cosmic entity that controls/is the Empty. Metatron’s stories act as a sleep aid and it frequently comes to Meta-Land to dream and play.
Metatron: “Admit it. That’s worth the ticket price alone.”
Over the course of the story, Crowley starts picking up followers like barnacles who, in the spirit of resistance to Metatron but lacking the imagination to do anything alone, just start rallying around him, assuming he knows what he’s doing or where he’s going. (He doesn’t.)
Guys like Gadreel, Hannah, Balthazar, Raphael, and, of all fucking entities, Pestilence, become almost like a band of Merry Men (If Robin Hood was constantly telling them to fuck off).
Eventually, Crowley realizes that his insistence on nihilism and isolation and nothingness in this world is turning him into something else. It’s turning him back into Fergus MacLeod, and that realization is enough to sober him out of his fugue state and inspires him to come up with a plan to leave Meta-Land without going back to nothingness. 
He realizes at the boundary of the land, where it’s thinnest, that Metatron isn’t the only one who can make a fun dream world and decides to make his own -- a Noir Mystery world. And everyone's welcome to follow.
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unfortunately I'm watching supernatural and someone on screen said 'there are No Wolves in pennsylvania' and I was like. what a bold incorrect statement. where did they possibly get that idea from. so I googled it...google is insisting there are no wild wolves in pa?? except I've Seen wolves here?? there used to be a wolf that would hang out in my backyard and roam around the neighborhood?? like Everyone knew about this wolf we assumed he lived on the golf course and would come to our yards if he got spooked by golfers (very quiet block). like we all thought he just lost his pack or whatever so people just gave him a wide space and let him chill, he didn't try to break into any houses or attack any pets but this was definitely. a wild wolf. where. where did he come from what do you MEAN there aren't wolves in pennsylvania I'm literally spiraling right now
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violenceenthusiast · 3 years
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im curious why people are saying supernatural is jewish like idk if jewish writers makes an inherently jewish story especially when things like following out the christian apocalypse from revelations and showing a real physical g-d who is just some guy i think is super jarring since though christians claim to be against idolatry they seem totally fine showing depictions of gd or whatever i dont get jesus honestly but jews are far more strict and the idea of showing gds appearance is pretty wrong
WOOF okay um. Maybe this is one of those Tone Doesn’t Come Thru Well Online things but to me this is soo fucking rude… I’m half way between John Mulaney we don't have time to unpack all of that & Ben Wyatt wait it’s gonna bother me if I don’t explain why you’re wrong. 
This turned into all my thoughts. 
So like. First off, it’s all fun and games. We’re all just joking and joshing and projecting here on destiel dot tumblr dot com and Jupernatural is not an exception in a lot of ways. And so when someone shits on what we’re doing here (yes, even unintentionally) what you get is what happened: oh you think you’re funny well I’m about to be hilarious!!! aka I’m gonna do it even more now out of spite specifically because you said not to. Like it really is all jokes but also you know what’s not a joke? Antisemitism in all its forms, even the casual shit! It’s really draining and it builds up in your veins!! Just. Yeah. You saw a lot of people talking about it today in particular because much like other topics of the day, one thing kicks off a whole other turn of events. So like. one misguided comment that’s playfully antisemitic and then one more little one, and then one big/obvious one launched us (Jewish spn fans) into a whole bigger discussion about antisemitism and erasure of Jews in the spn fandom writ large. It’s one thing to be descriptive, offer a headcanon/what if, or employ a certain mode of analysis. It’s another thing to definitively say This Is The Truth, specifically when to do so overrides something else, especially in this case when what’s being overridden is Jews, an ethnoreligious minority. It’s also another thing to talk over Jews. And mind this has been building for days. Not in a bad way just like, it’s been topical for days and then today one big thing pushed it over the edge to us actually posting abt it (partially bc at that point it’s a pattern, which feels like it needs to be addressed). Like, destiel tumblr is small we pretty much all see all the same posts, and then Jewish spn fans… we’re friends, we chat about life? We joke around together, y’know? If you’re being antisemitic (yes, even unintentionally) we’re all gonna hear abt it. It’s how we stay safe or in this case, curate the online exp.
That being said tho projecting on fiction is like fun and even a good thing at times, and def opens up new modes of analysis. But! the other big thing here is that there IS a LOT of evidence for a Jewish reading of spn, in a lot of ways, and particularly if you know what to look for. Like there’s lots of niche Jewish slang (non-Jews just don’t know these things, and that is a reflection primarily of the writers but once you put it in the script it implies things about the characters too of course), the theology of the early seasons (I’ll get to that in a second), main character motivations (hold on), “Moishe Campbell” implying Mary is (and therefore Sam and Dean are) Jewish, etc. 
It’s not surprising to me or anything that non-Jews don’t catch anything/everything Jewish about spn but that Jews catch both sides of it, because that’s just how being part of a marginalized group works. You learn about your own stuff AND the dominant culture’s stuff because that’s how you survive (socially, psychologically, literally). Members of the dominant culture don’t need to learn the marginalized one, are never confronted with it, and so they just.. don’t. I don’t even mean that in a normative or accusatory way, that’s just an observation on the state of things. Non-Jews who aren’t part of another marginalized religion, aka expressed xtians and cultural xtians, have a ton of misconceptions about Judaism, for example, “Jesus was Jewish” and not, “Jesus was an asshole of an apostate who made life harder for Jews at the time in a myriad of ways and whose movement has had a lasting negative impact on world Jewry (and other peoples) for the ensuing millenia”. I truly Don’t Have Time right now to get into the varied and intense history of antisemitism in all its forms but. the point I’m making here is that I’m not shocked I need to explain that life experience shapes your worldview?? So if you’re Jewish you’re always gonna be living life through that version of the world and it does impact you?? Same as anything else?? As unwell as they may be, spn writers aren’t exempt from that. Jewish people writing about xtianity are doing so thru a primarily Jewish understanding and vice versa. Jews can (and did!) write about xtian lore but in a Jewish way! Some core Jewish themes: wrestling with angels/G-d, questioning G-d, IF there’s a G-d they will have to beg MY forgiveness, the afterlife isn’t really a big thing so all that matters is your time on earth, make amends to others directly and thru your actions rather than seeking absolution with G-d, you are not obligated to complete the work nor may you abandon it, etc… So that’s the other reasoning why we say “spn is Jewish” based solely on it being written by Jews. Rather than Death of The Author, let’s look at what the author has imbued the story with, both intentionally and unintentionally. And re: Chuck and idolatry… I don’t even know where to start with the way you phrased this but. the Jewish Spn Writers of Note are apparently Kripke, Gamble, and Edlund. All of whom stopped writing for the show years before the Chuck Is God plot! 
Like yes it feels very stupid to be writing a thousand words on antisemitism and supernatural but like. this is a spn blog run by a Jew so. This whole thing is also just the same every time. This is very representative of typical casual antisemitism.
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asterekmess · 3 years
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Did you ever watch Buffy? The first episode where Anya was introduced was titled "The Wish" and all I can think about is if Scott McCall had ever run into a pure Sidhe where they offered him a wish. Instead of, "I wish Buffy had never come to Sunnydale." It would be more, "I wish I was never bitten to become a werewolf." But just like all feaye tricks, the outcome is more, his Dad ended up with primary custody rather than his Mom and he was forced to leave BH. And then Stiles ended up more friends with Heather and others. And while Scott's life is worse, when he tracks down the others he finds all of theirs are greatly improved.
I think about it a lot and how Scott never really dealt with the consequences of any of his actions, everyone else did, and how an episode or mini-arc could have fixed a flaw in the show's design. I mean, we were already dealing with a lot of Celtic lore, why not someone from the Sidhe courts?
I have no idea why this took me so long to answer, so apologies for that. <3 I did watch buffy! I've seen all of it, and all of Angel as well. XD
I remember 'The Wish' episode, and whoooo boy it gave me chills. I loved how big the butterfly effect was, how something that seemed so small, something that Genuinely seemed to be the cause of a lot of problems in Sunnydale, ended up being so important to how things had progressed. Because, yeah, you would think Buffy not coming to Sunnydale would be a Good Thing, right? Sunnydale didn't have all of these insane issues before she arrived. It was quiet, and nothing big or scary ever happened. Her arrival matches perfectly with when everything started going absolutely nuts, so whatever selfish ideas Cordelia had, her thought that Buffy not coming to Sunnydale would be a good thing, makes sense. Except that, as she finds out, she's entirely wrong. Buffy's arrival was a lucky coincidence, or fate, whatever your taste leans toward. She showed up right as things started going nuts, and she kept it from going SO MUCH MORE NUTS.
Now, moving on to TW, it is a fascinating mix of being the Exact same situation, and the exact Opposite. I'll add a Read More, cus' holy god is this a lot of Rambling.
Because Scott wishing not to have been bitten...yeah, the bite Did improve things. But it improved things for him. He would absolutely regret making the wish, just like Cordelia did, because he would realize how many good things the bite had brought with it. BUT, conversely, he would have to realize how many good things the bite had brought for him, not for other people, and how their lives either wouldn't have been affect, or might've even Improved without him being bitten. Without the bite, Scott wouldn't have gotten on first line, period. His health issues made very clear in the five minutes he had them that any kind of stamina based sport was just out of the question for him. If he is unable to walk through the woods at a moderate pace without needing to grab his inhaler and stop against a tree, he just plain cannot play lacrosse for two or three hours of running at high speeds and working a bunch of muscles in his upper body. He likely wouldn't have gone out with Allison, because he would have no convenient way to get her attention. Furthermore, he wouldn't have the extra senses that both impressed her on the lacrosse field, and told him about her 'family dinner' the night of Lydia's party. (I've discussed this before, but... While it's true, Allison would have still brought him the dog; that dog would likely have attacked him, and his chances with her would have been shot in the foot when they both got in massive trouble and he likely had to go to the ER for stitches or something. Without Allison or first line, he wouldn't have started hanging out with the 'cool kids,' and quite frankly, wouldn't have had anyone to help him study for the classes he was struggling with. It's true that he also wouldn't have had werewolf things to worry about, or even a girlfriend to distract him from homework, so maybe that wouldn't have been such a huge issue, but still.
If we look at other people's lives and how They would have been affected by Scott not getting the bite...well, let's talk about that.
Stiles didn't get on first line because of Scott, or because of a werewolf bite. Or even because of the werewolf bullshittery occurring in town. He was put on first line because of his abilities, and even after being taken OFF first line for missing the game, he was put Right onto the field in the next game, chosen OVER other players who were perfectly viable options. Which means, he still would've ended up on first line. Allison wasn't interested in dating before she met Scott, and part of her draw to him was based on how 'different' he was. He knew things she didn't know how he could know, he had a weird ability to calm a furious, injured dog, and he had charisma that was ALSO gained from the bite, since being on first line made Scott Much more self-confident. If she didn't end up dating him, it's likely she wouldn't have dated at all. Which would mean no hiding from her parents, no strange conflicts of interest, AND, interestingly enough --depending on her involvement in the murders, etc that would still be occurring in town--no night in the school that would scare her bad enough to ask Kate for extra help and tip her headfirst into hunter training. AND, even if she DID still end up getting those lessons from Kate? There would be no bitterness to fuel her behavior at the end of season 1.
Allison was Traumatized after Kate showed her Derek on the grate. She was horrified, and didn't know what to do about it, and while we can ramble all we want about the morality of her not confronting her family (whom she's just discovered is willing to electrocute people) about it, the fact is that she pushed the thoughts aside to stop freaking out and went to that dance. Where she found out Scott was a werewolf, and was So fucking Betrayed that she was willing to help Kate catch him and Derek. No Scott, no betrayal, no willingness to help Kate recapture the miserable man who'd been chained up in a basement.
If we go back to that specific night, and try to unfold the events from there if Scott hadn't been bitten, things get a little complicated, but I'll take a few artistic liberties. Scott isn't bitten. Presumably, he just happens to get out of the woods in time, or he gets caught with Stiles by the sheriff, or doesn't go to the woods in the first place. These all change the possible outcomes of that night. If he hadn't gone in the first place, and Stiles went alone, would he have been bitten instead? Would Scott have been dragged into all of this anyway, but without the protection and boost of being a werewolf and cured of his asthma? If he weren't the one bitten, and he saw everything Stiles gained from it, would he still have such a hatred for the bite? Or would he want it, like Erica did, to cure him and make him powerful and cool? But, let's assume Stiles doesn't get bitten either. The second half of Laura's body still hasn't been found, and Stiles has no reason to fear running back into the preserve the next day, and no real punishment from his father as far as we can tell. So, does he go back to look again? If he did, he would run into Derek, because Derek would still be there after retrieving Laura's body himself. He would see Derek and still recognize him, and from there, things might spiral, still involving Stiles in the supernatural, and it's likely Stiles would try to involve Scott, and Again we get hit with "Would Scott want the bite, if he hadn't gotten forcibly bitten in the first place?" The answer is probably yes. He wanted to be cool, and popular, and on the lacrosse team. He wanted everything being a werewolf gave him. BUT if we're looking at this wish as similar to "The Wish," then no matter what, Scott won't be bitten. He'll be transported to a new world where it just never happened, and he'll be human, and forced to watch everyone around him be just plain different. Scott not being bitten would isolate him from Stiles, if Stiles got involved in the spn anyway. We SAW how Stiles cut off his other friends once the spn starting getting in the way. He and Harley? We have no clue how close they were. They were close enough for her to tease him about his crush on Lydia, for her to wander up comfortably to the locker and talk to them. And he cut her off as soon as the werewolf stuff hit. What if he cut Scott off? To protect him, if nothing else, like he did his own father. Once he realized the danger involved, I doubt he would be willing to put Scott in harm's way.
So, Scott would not only lose first line, lose his girlfriend, lose his popularity, lose his health and strength and heightened abilities, lose his 'importance' to the goings-on of Beacon Hills, but he would also lose Stiles, who seems to have been his only friend, unless he also had a relationship with Harley.
Okay, I've rambled enough about the what if's, so let's talk about the Reason why this wish would go so badly for Scott, in such a different way than it went for Cordelia. Cordelia, first off, wished that someone Else would not have/do something, rather than wishing for herself not to have done something. She watches how fucked up the world gets, and how much worse her life is without Buffy around to save the day. Scott wished for Himself not to have done something (even something passive, like 'get bitten') and would have to watch how fucked up his world gets, and how far behind he would fall. The other's lives might not necessarily get better, because Peter is still on the loose, and the hunters are still there, etc etc, but they would still Progress, while Scott would stay stagnant.
And WHY is that? Because Scott isn't important to the story. It DOESN'T start with him. That's the Whole Point of his character. He is supposed to be the 'everyman' who gets dragged into crazy shit and becomes integral to things that he wasn't ever meant to be a part of. The guy who wanders into becoming King or 'The Hero' that will save the world, even though he's just a small lad from a tiny town, whose highest prospects were "get on first line."
He was NEVER supposed to be Buffy, or if he was, it was done Very Badly.
But Beacon Hills WASN'T a quiet town before Scott was bitten; however much he might've said 'nothing ever happens in this town.' It was FULL of bullshittery and magic from the very beginning. There was the fire, and Paige, and the blinding of Deucalion, and the death of Alexander Argent, and the Nogitsune in the internment camp nearby. All of these things were around So much longer than Scott's bite, and they'd been affecting the world that whole time too. Because yes, in Buffy, the master was There before she was, but he was literally rendered inert by the situations he was in. And the things he'd done happened Centuries before, not six years. There is a difference. Sunnydale was Not Known for the insane number of weird deaths. Beacon Hills was. And aside from the Nogitsune, every single fucking thing that happened in Beacon Hills, was attuned to the Hale family in one way or another. Deucalion's blinding occurred during a meeting on Hale land, because Talia was known as a wise leader, etc, in the area and other wolves flocked to her. Deucalion biting Argent seems unrelated (if you even believe Deucalion did that, despite being a fucking pacifist before Gerard blinded him), but again, it occurs just a couple hours away from Beacon Hills, which is Hale Territory. The one who plays the Buffy role here? Who shows up at just the right time, and launches themself against an endless wave of evil, with slightly enhanced senses and a thorough need to do good and not back away from things that 'aren't they're problem'? The actual hero who is somehow tied to everything going on in ways even they don't understand? Was Derek. The guy who entirely unwittingly allowed Julia Baccari to survive, because he was trying to be merciful to his first love. Who entirely unwittingly was manipulated into giving up information that let a hunter kill his family. Who followed his sister back to town after six years of just trying to survive in New York, fell into a fucking tragedy, and decided to stop the bad guys anyway, even though he knew he didn't stand a fucking chance.
And as annoyed as some might get. The 'everyman' who stumbles onto the set and accidentally becomes integral to the saving of the world? The one whose ambitions are small and who expectations are smaller? Who is misunderstood, and has abilities that aren't recognized or appreciated, that doesn't really fit in, but tries their best anyway? The literal Angel to Derek's Buffy?
Is fucking Stiles. The son of the sheriff who just could not let it go when he discovered there was something funky going on. Who hung around on the edges, even though he wasn't really wanted, because he needed to help. Who ended up saving Derek's life over and over, and becoming so important as to be Derek's anchor? Who literally WENT DARKSIDE and HAD TO BE NEARLY KILLED, even though Derek didn't to kill him???
I know how it sounds, but JD SAID he took inspiration from Buffy. The issue is that his parallels are between DEREK AND STILES, and BUFFY AND ANGEL. Respectively.
Derek might act like the broody bad boy, but it is STILES' mentality that matches Angel's behavior, and it's Derek who matches Buffy.
I'm so fucking off track. Scott would be miserable if he ever managed to get a wish and used it to keep from having been bitten. And it would be sad. I would feel bad for him, had I watched something like that happen. Seeing him realize that most of the good things he had, he only got because of the bite. That Stiles would still be on first line, that Lydia and Jackson would still be the popular kids. That Allison wouldn't know he existed, or if she did would avoid him entirely. That Jackson would never have been turned into the kanima in the first place. That everyone else would move on and up in life, and he would still be standing at the bottom step. Because it wasn't his actual limitations that were holding him back, it was his refusal to accept them, to work with them, and to just plain stop Envying Everyone Around him, and start living his own fucking life instead of trying to steal other people's.
Scott wishes he were Cordelia, and I promise that would backfire too.
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cooloddball · 3 years
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Someone submitted something in my inbox and they wanted to remain anonymous. Since this is an extremely long essay, I will put it under the cut. READ AT YOUR OWN RISK, YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!
xxx submitted: hey, i was the one who ask what do you think of Misha and Jensen's current relationship First off all thank you for your answear it means much to me cause im easy to be convice and this person who keep telling me that they are no longer friends can be so convicing, so I'm actully trying to forget what she said 😅 so I'm just writing a few. she said that since they no longer work together, they will forget about each other, and do their common things like the gay jokes, face touches ect. With other people, and neglect each other, don't talk to each other, and then meet new people who will replace the other. And and she talked about the gish thing, she said she sure they didn't talk since the end of the series, because Jensen didn't know where Misha was and Misha didn't know about the Radio Company vol 2 (but i saw people say that, they were just pretending, because Misha liked something about Radio Company Vol 2, before the gish live, so in theory he already knew then or something like that) and She said Misha wrote a poem about Darius not Jensen and now I will write down what she sent me : I saw a post about Jensen's current activities on social media, and I've come to the conclusion the only person he doesn't interact with is mish. Sadly this makes my break up theory even stronger. I feel like this is a goodbye to one of the biggest parts of my life. They've moved on from "uk what I haven't told you today? That i love u"+ from "miss my only jensen" from "i love u misha i mean it from the bottom of my heart" from "jensen has no flaws" from "misha is the funniest thing ever happened to me" from all that love and affection from everything they developed together and now they're apart leaving their lives like nothing happened and call me a dramatic but they both have the same energy now as someone has after a big break up. and Jensen comments on almost every of his friend’s post except Misha’s"+ Jenmish is genuinely the best thing that has ever happened in my entire life. I owe them literally everything. They're the reason i hold on. Unfortunately on this essay i have to start using past tense verbs for them, and i have to continue on that. I don't know for how long y'all been in spn fandom. But even if u joined one year before the show ended you'd know how close and intimate jensen and misha were. Everything about them was unmatched.+ The chemistry and how they just fit eachother. They had always been all over eachother. Like they were holding on eachother for dear life. They completed eachother and were like world's most powerful thing. They were the definition of soulmatism. No matter where, they ALWAYS kept interacting with eachother. Each possible tweet or insta post. On cons that the other wasn't there, the other one would bring up the othere's name for no absolute reason. +The looks and repeated love confessions. How invested they were both into eachother. The family they had built together cuz we know how close dee and mish are (look all the charity work they've been doing together recently). There are youtube videos to proof everything I've said so far.When i say break up, my real intention is that they've grown apart. Everything started in the the third or forth month of pandemic. Before than jensen used to interact +(comment mostly) on almost all of misha's posts. But after a while everything just stopped. At first personally didn't care that much. Bcuz I believed too much in them that I thought not even the gods above could separate them. I told myself maybe they spend long hours chatting or video calling and that's why online public interactions are gone. But as it passed it almost diminished to zero. Except some likes from jackles and eventual ones from misha there weren't anything else.+ We got absolutely no content and the show went off too. We were helpless and were sticking to everything we had Dee had a big social media shot down, so as jensen. Misha was busy with the election. We got some interviews for it with all of them. But we didn't get much.except remember both of them pulling a bff
move. and texted eachother during an online con where everyone else were dead-serious about politics? That flickered something in me. That showed me that+ they can't ever possibly let eachother go. And the times everyone else were talking and these too would just talk random things together (the one jackels had a white hat on with stacy abraham).And then Misha posted that for jensen's bday We really overlooked it. That shit was too intimate. To close. Fav march baby? U just don't go around and called ur bestie baby and when u mean it deeply. Especially not when ur friend is jensen ackles the "I suffered form internalized homophobia my whole life+ but fuck my wife's an angel and i have an angel bf too and another angel which is his wife but I'd rather die than come out cuz my asshole dad pulled a John winchester on me". It doesn't work like that. But uk how mish is. Carefree and open. I believe they got into a fight bcuz of this. He didn't even like the post. AND that was when the tiny bit of interactions we had was gone too. For a while jensen didn't even liked his posts. After a month it started again.What made me finally believe in that they had grown too+ far: I still remember the night misha posted that he and jensen were going to have a con for gish together. I remember how hard I cried. Lile the whole world was given to me. But deep down in my heart I knew that something would definitely happen. It didn't sit right with me and unfortunately my senses never lie to me. Jensen showed up at the wrong time bcuz of misunderstanding the time zones (this was HILARIOUS). That's not even my point.+ I've seen that interview 3 times so far. It always reminds me of when i saw my ex at a party and we were both so thrilled to see eachother and we still loved the other dearly, but we just couldn't work it out. Jensen and Misha's expressions were EXACTLY the same. The genuine smiles and longs pauses were they just stared at eachother. I'm so happy that it was online cuz if they actually gave that looks to eachother standing right next to the other one I would've collapsed. Misha didn't know that jensen's album+ was out. And he got so embarrassed when he found it out. He didn't know that jensen was on set and hadn't been home for 8weeks. Jensen had no idea where misha was. And this means that they hadn't talked in a long long time.When you're that close with someone for more than a decade, i mean THAT close, even if u're separated from eachother you'd at least check on the once a week, or at least once in two weeks. But it was vividly clear that they hadn't. I hate how this world works. They would always be in my heart.+ I would be thankful from them for everything. It hurts, and it won't stop and im so sure I'd be carrying this pain for a long time. They mean too much to a lot of us. Sometimes I think to myself that god i love them so much. Remember in 2019 when we used to get SO many jenmishdee interactions? That was LIT. It was THEE year for us. I hope they're doing good. I really do. I hope we don't get more proofs and I won't have to update this thread. Cuz my heart won't be taking it very+ well.Something i gotta add U may say that Jensen's busy and that's why he doesn't comment. But he comments on a lot of jared and his new costar's posts. So that's no excuse. So yeah that's it. I don't know what am I supposed to think. english isn't my native language, so sorry for the mistakes
Here is my response:
I don't know who this person who has been talking to is but I have to say they seem to be project their previous relationship experience on cockles.
I believe Jensen and Misha are okay and are together. Social media likes and comments don't mean anything. I mean it's not like Jensen or Misha used to comment on each other's posts before. Jensen didn't even wish Dee Happy Mother's Day this year, does that mean they are not together anymore? Nope. He has other best friends he has known for over 20 years like Jason Manns, Steve Carlson etc that he doesn't wish happy birthday, does that mean they are not friends anymore.
Please let's not put value on social media likes. I don't even follow my own family on sm and I don't always like or comment on my bf's or bff's posts on sm. So it doesn't mean anything.
As for the Gish Panel, I have talked about it before, the time Jensen was slotted to attend the panel, he was meant to answer fan questions. I honestly believe they decided to not do it at that time because they knew the questions would be about Destiel and not their new projects. If you watched that panel, Misha knew that Jensen's album was out as I pointed out. He was just trying to promote the album and soldier boy. He knew Jensen had also buffed out. It was all to promote Jensen. Anything else you hear is trolls and antis just being loud. Also don't forget Jensen called him "babe".
If Jensen and Misha weren't okay, he wouldn't have attended or participated all those panels Misha organized especially for Gish. Danneel also posts a lot about RA and likes Misha's posts. I am 100% Misha visited the Ackles when he went to Colorado last month.
Stop listening to trolls and/or antis or just people who are projecting and look at facts.
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venhedish · 3 years
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In light of a certain wincest-adjacent blocklist making the rounds and some friends of mine getting smacked with the purity hammer, I have things to say for anyone who would like to listen!
In my experience, antis are more concerned with the rush they get from being angry and feeling morally superior than they are with actually engaging critically with us, the text, or themselves to understand why they feel the way they feel.
This is not actually about the incest thing and it never has been. Incest in the SPN fandom is being used as a dog-whistle to draw a dividing line between us and them, and it’s that shitty black-and-white thinking that tons of young people are falling victim to because it’s wrapped up with a bow that presents a neat little package: incest bad. We can all agree on that, can’t we? But what’s so insidious is that this new-Victorian purity movement is only cloaked in a signifier of moral purity. What it actually is is a giant, authoritarian flag waving in the air, inviting the anti-intellectual to join together behind a concept that sounds righteous on the surface but is actually being used to bully, harass, and harm people who are often already marginalized out of their own communities.
One thing to look out for in particular that absolutely fascinates me is the way language is used as an exclusionary, self-selective force that reinforces these boundaries. Go to any one of the big heller/anti-wincest blogs and look at the way they talk to each other. To be clear, almost all groups will eventually start developing a shorthand that makes them easily identifiable to each other, but sometimes I’ll check out that side of tumblr and legitimately feel like we’re speaking two different languages.
This is a really common thing that happens with political and religious movements and it’s happening here for similar reasons! If you’re on the fringes of fandom and you like destiel and you join tumblr or twitter or wherever these communities are active and you do a search for your ship, you’ll find some blogs that seem really cool and have interesting stuff to say, but they’re full of in-jokes and weird terms and meme language. And because you want to fit in—to understand the community you’re joining—you dive deeper, you search back through history and pick up pieces here and there until you finally get it. And by that point, you’ve basically indoctrinated yourself. You’re doing their work for them, essentially.
This kind of thing is done on purpose for two reasons: it helps to signify that people using this language have passed a litmus test that proves this person is one of us, and it makes it harder for the outsider to engage with you on even footing. I mean, this sounds fucking ridiculous, but how the fuck is an intellectually honest person supposed to engage critically with someone who attacks them by calling them J*red-kin??? (I just made that up but I can 100% imagine a heller using it as an insult). I’m not saying this is done on purpose in the SPN fandom. I mean, maybe a little by people who are shit-stirring on purpose, but this kind of thing just happens and it’s very hard to catch on to. We’re all guilty of it. Language is crazy flexible and always shifting and we flex and shift with it as popular phrases come and go.
Look, all I’m saying is that if you actually think about the response to wincest from the heller community, you realize how flimsy their platform really is. Reading and writing about fictional brothers fictionally fucking each other harms no one, and anyone with a brain who actually cares knows this! That’s why the anti-wincest crowd isn’t citing articles or research about the dangers of portraying incest in fiction – because they don’t exist! We can, of course, talk about the impact that uneven power dynamics in real life incestuous relationships have on victims of such abuse, how most people who are sexually abused are abused by a family member, how to be aware of grooming techniques and watch out for red flags that point towards abusive behavior. But we don’t! Because that’s 👏 not 👏 what 👏 it’s 👏 about 👏
Instead, it’s just an overflowing bandwagon jammed full of empty ideas and a lot of people getting hurt because of it. Innocent – let me say it again: INNOCENT people who are exploring sexuality, trauma, relationship dynamics, and just plain old having a good time minding their own business in an ethically safe and victimless way are being threatened and harassed and told to die. Wonder which one is actually more damaging and morally bankrupt. 🤔
Anyway, imagine a world where the purity police got their way. There’d basically be no safe literature left. Nabokov? Cancelled. Rushdie? Salinger? Ginsberg? All cancelled. Imagine antis whole-cloth discarding hundreds of years of religious tradition because of all the shit the gods got up to! This is the same line of thinking that made a generation of moms believe that violent video games led to real-world violence. Fiction has never, ever, been meant to only tell pure stories. The whole world of literature would be narrowed down to, like, a couple cautionary tales and picture books if anti culture could somehow actually reach the inevitable praxis of its desire. 
Taboos have always been sexy. It’s okay to explore them through the medium of fiction. It’s literally the safest, most ethically responsible thing you can do. Please, please don’t let a functionally illiterate hive-mind convince you otherwise!
For an amazing resource to learn more about anti culture and how troubling it is, check out @freedom-of-fanfic. It’s an awesome blog to browse if you’re even a tiny bit interested in this kind of thing!
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autisticandroids · 3 years
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androids!!! what do you think would happen if dean met hotgirl castiel? like, if we're talking canon-compliant?
first of all! this post is really primarily about dean like, holding some transphobic beliefs that i think it would be in character for him to hold, and how those would bump up against a more inescapably genderweird cas! so you know. careful with that.
anyway, so fun fact! i have already answered this question in a couple big long posts!
however i always love to hear the sound of my own voice so i'm going to answer a question slightly to the left of the one you asked, which is: how would dean feel if he found out about hot girl castiel. so here’s the thing: what’s interesting to me about this is that it’s a big reveal about cas that cas doesn’t realize is a big reveal. cas is an angel. he’s not gendered. he understands, i think, masculinity and femininity, male roles and female roles. but i don’t think he understands the concept of gender as something one is, rather than something one does. so for example, lily sunder. mirabel lives for a little longer. refers to cas as “she.” cas doesn’t blink, cas is used to being referred to as she. the pronoun used in the third person in enochian for angels isn’t gendered, and it’s closer to “it” than “they,” or perhaps an appropriate translation would be “soldier” or “servant-of-god.” actually while i was typing this i realized that i literally wrote a fic about that when i was fifteen, it was the first spn fic i ever posted and it was on my ffn. i just crossposted it to ao3 just now. anyway, cas doesn’t really realize that swapping vessel genders is something that would make dean re-evaluate anything. hell, cas possessed claire in front of dean and it didn’t make dean rethink anything at all, so why would this?
except the thing is that, as i said in one of the posts i linked earlier, in s4, cas was an angel to dean. he was inhuman, something intensely other. he didn’t have access to the kind of gendering that dean thinks of humans as having, because he wasn’t even really a person to dean yet. but in s12? cas is just a guy, to dean. he’s a person. and people, to dean, have definite genders. so while i’m sure that intellectually dean knows that cas has probably taken a female vessel at some point in the past, being confronted with that knowledge is a bit brain-breaking. like, i would love to sit dean down and make him read some judith butler, but no one has done that. dean doesn’t have any trans friends (if he did he would be a better, healthier person, and might use different pronouns). the idea of someone being another gender than they appear at first glance, or not having a gender, or changing genders over time - all that is foreign to him. the idea that cas could have in some way been a woman, at some point, would shake him.
and like, i’ve already said this in the posts i linked, but the difference there is that dean has time traveled away from his cas. he has some time to process, and another cas who is not his cas to occupy his mind.  but when he's with his cas, he wouldn't have the distance. i think he might start actively reevaluating cas' behavior in real time. trying to see if he could see him as a woman. he might reclassify some of cas' actions, in his mind, which had once simply been classified as "weird," as "feminine." i'm not sure how this would change his opinion of cas but i do think it would. i don't know if this would push dean into a personal gender crisis in the same way as meeting hot girl castiel, because again that requires some distance and if he is with his cas he doesn't have distance.
i actually do think this would be more likely to get dean to re-evaluate their relationship than if late season dean time traveled to meet hot girl castiel, because like. in dean's head, this makes his cas.... Kind Of A Woman A Little Bit. he's never seen cas As A Woman so instead he projects womanhood onto his cas. and if cas is Kind Of A Woman, then it's uh. more obvious that cas has been doing Wife Shit for dean for years. and dean has been responding in kind. i think that if dean were to have this realization in lily sunder, and then stuck in the middle with you happened? i think dean would realize cas was in love with him. i don't know if he would realize he was in love with cas yet. i also think he might like...... confront cas about her gender? and they would have an intensely unproductive conversation where they talked past each other because cas REALLY doesn't understand how gender works because he has special autism that makes you genderweird, like, there are definitely angels who have genders and certainly who understand gender but cas Does Not because he is full of angel autism, and dean is like. there are only two genders. g.i. joe and barbie. but i do think this conversation would impress upon dean that cas really is something other than a man (and that that thing is not "secretly a woman") and THAT realization might like. cause him to rethink his concept of gender a little. have little a crisis. as a treat.
i also think that he has a very awkward conversation with sam where he's like. "so is cas kind of..... a chick?" and sam is like dean what the fuck does that mean but externally he's like "why do you say that, dean?" and dean tries to process his feelings about this with sam and sam tries to be supportive. sam has met a trans person at least once in his life but i dunno if he would make the connection between transness and cas immediately because cas is still more of an angel to sam than he is to dean, and also sam finds it less jarring that and angel who is just a guy might still be gendered differently than a human. but he tries to help dean process his feelings about this because he recognizes that it's important to dean. a week later he DOES make the connection and like. prints out a copy of the fucking genderbread person and tries to give dean the Very Enlightened Cis Person Trans 101. because sam has had trans friends before but not close enough friends to open his gender third eye. i am rooting for him because honestly he could use some new pronouns too i think they would be good for him.
edit: i want to be clear that both dean and sam misunderstand cas' gender, it's just that sam's misunderstanding (he's like this because he is an angel) is wrong in a less obvious way and also a misunderstanding cas shares. cas is not like this because she's an angel he's like this because he has autism that makes you not have gender.
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spn-romantica · 3 years
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So I watched SPN for years, right up until the end of S11, when they brought back Mary. I heard that S15 would be the last season, and I was like ‘oh ok I’ll rewatch (for like the 8th time) and finish SPN then’ BUT THEN 15x18 happened and I was violently pulled back into the SPN fandom. I still haven’t caught up fully watching yet, but I’ve read so much discourse now...and I have thoughts. Hypotheses currently. I’ll wait to finish the whole show for real to call any of this theories but, I wanted to record my thoughts.
They’re about Chuck. As a villain. Which weirds me out. As an antagonist? Sure. As evil? No. Can’t envision it. I just finished my rewatch of S5 and, damn, but if Chuck is the ultimate villain, S5 reads very differently. :0
But I recently saw a post comparing Dean’s reaction in 1x18 (I believe) to his in 10x05 (for sure) about when someone mentions his mother’s death. In 1x18, it’s Sam when they were children and Dean gets angry. In 10x05, it’s a group of high school girls and Dean just bops his head along to the song. The post was framing it as 10x05 not understanding Dean’s thoughts about his mother, but I think that both episodes understand Dean. When Dean is a child, the trauma over his mother’s murder is still fresh. By 10x05, the event is 70 years in the past. Of course it still affects Dean. Of course. You never really get over something like that. But I’d argue that after 70 years, Dean has moved through the stages of grief to acceptance. It still hurts, but like an old ache, not a fresh, still-bleeding wound.
Interestingly, 10x05 is when we see Chuck, after a long absence. He’s watching the play, probably happy that someone loves his work enough to even make a musical, but he is also watching the Winchesters. The actual episodes of the show, aka the books Chuck writes, are what Chuck knows/cares about regarding the Winchesters. Despite being God, I’d argue he doesn’t pay attention to every second and all the little minutia of the boys’ lives. So, here in 10x05, we have confirmation that Chuck is around to see that Dean has healed from his mother’s death.
Later, in S11, Dean acts as therapist/life counsellor to Chuck/God, regarding Amara and Lucifer. And it works! Dean teaches God about family and about healing. Why does God listen to Dean Winchester, a random human? Perhaps it is because of S1-5. Perhaps it is because Dean and Sam were part of God’s test, as God himself describes it in 5x22.
What was the test? Was it God’s experiment about choice and free will? About freedom vs peace? Or, perhaps, was God trying to understand sibling relationships? He and Amara are two faces of the same coin. They are siblings, but with very different outlooks and it caused a rift between them, caused Chuck to seal Amara away before she could destroy his creations. Chuck regretted this, but saw it as a necessary betrayal. But then, some time later, Chuck’s angelic children experience their own betrayal and sibling rift. Lucifer tries to turn the angels against God, rebel and reject God. He makes demons, for sure, and maybe even Hell. But why? God figures that Lucifer was maybe jealous of the new baby (humans) like others in the show postulates. Or maybe Lucifer had beef specifically with Michael, because humans are little more than amoebas from an angelic perspective. Aside from Castiel, Anna and a handful of other angels, angels consistently view humans as humans might view dust mites. Maybe humans were the cause of the rift between Michael and Lucifer, but it was Michael and Lucifer’s relationship that needed fixing in the end, regardless.
So God is left with the sad conclusion that maybe close siblings will inevitably betray each other and be unable to forgive and heal. He wants to heal with Amara. But he also wants Michael and Lucifer to be able to heal. (It doesn’t occur to God that maybe Lucifer’s problem was never with humanity or Michael; it was with God.)
So God has research to do, to see if it’s possible for siblings to experience such deep betrayal and still heal. He turns to his little hairless apes, the only sentient species on Earth with potential to parallel the angels. He starts testing siblings. Cain and Abel are first up. Needless to say, but the betrayal was too strong and left no room for healing. But on down the line of Cain, God continues testing. Eventually, we come to Sam and Dean.
God has scheduled Michael and Lucifer’s family counselling session for 2010. All the data up to this point says it can only end badly. Maybe it’ll half-kill the Earth, but it’s finally time for Michael and Lucifer to meet and for one of them to die. God isn’t happy about this conclusion, but it’s what the data says. So, finally, the last test subjects, the last in the line who will be the vessels for Michael and Lucifer’s showdown, arrive. Sam and Dean Winchester are to be the last sibling test. The conclusion seems foregone at this point, but there is no point in cancelling the last bit of the test after so long, so it continues. God watches. And Sam and Dean surprise God. Siblings after siblings had failed for millennia to heal. Betrayals too strong, healing too little, too late. But Sam and Dean. no matter how badly they hurt each other, find a way to come back together and heal. They don’t give up on each other, despite millennia of data to the contrary. Still, the angels and demons push and push at Sam and Dean until their rift is as wide and as deep as Michael and Lucifer’s, as God’s and Amara’s (in late S4). It seems, despite the brothers’ best efforts earlier on, it’s all for naught.
But there is a further element of randomness, something God couldn’t foresee. Castiel. God hasn’t had occasion for romantic love in his own experience, so he is entirely blind to what choices Castiel is likely to make. He provides an element of randomness to the experiment, an essential part that gives Dean the ultimate chance to go back to Sam and begin to heal (4x22).
Throughout S5, Sam and Dean heal. There is hurt, still, of course, but they love each other and forgive each other. By 5x22, they’ve surprised everyone. Even the angels have given up on turning them against each other, and have shrugged and settled for using Nick and Adam as the vessels for the showdown. Sam and Dean passed their test. They were siblings who betrayed each other and healed from it. God reconsiders how family counselling will go with Michael and Lucifer. He figured it would be the Apocalypse, the end of the problems between Michael and Lucifer, as one of them dies, as had always happened before. But, Sam and Dean showed God, that though it is rare, it is possible to heal. So God gives Sam and Dean an out. He gives Sam the strength to seize back control from Lucifer, should things go south.
Finally, the showdown arrives. Michael and Lucifer meet. They talk things out. To God’s surprise, Lucifer reveals that he never had a problem with Michael. He had forgiven Michael long ago. But Michael couldn’t forgive Lucifer. He had to be a ‘good son’ and do what he thought God wanted him to do. But Michael didn’t realise, that God doesn’t give orders. Free will all the way, baby! But the whole thing comes as a surprise. Apparently, all this time, the problem relationship wasn’t siblings, it was parents.
Oops.
Good thing God had a back-up plan.
Sam throws himself and Lucifer (and Michael and Adam) into the Cage. Michael and Lucifer have an eternity to figure things out between each other now. But that’s beside the point. The point is, now, that God has to start testing all over again. Not how to fix sibling relationships, but how to fix parent-child relationships.
God restores Castiel, perhaps for a few reasons because God exists outside of time, but originally it may have been just for one. He likes Castiel. He is impressed that Castiel invented free will for himself, broke free of angelic programming (multiple times over), and did it all for love. It’s novel. It’s interesting. God might even think it’s sweet. But God has had time later, and thought about it, and he has a plan. And Castiel is essential.
But Dean Winchester is the key.
Sam and Dean’s relationship with their own father has been strained, but both boys find a way to forgive John his flaws and failings, and love him. Whenever they do get a chance to see him again, post his death, they don’t hate him. They’ve healed. John’s relationship with Sam and Dean is one point of data, Abraham and Isaac another. There are many data points that God can reflect back on and consider.
But as S6 through S10 roll on, God watches Sam and Dean and Castiel. He even watches Crowley and Rowena for another data point. Dean is his main focus, however. (This is a little meta, but as the story focuses more on Dean than Sam post S5, it ties in. Prior to S6, both Sam and Dean were essential - the sibling test. Now, post S5, the parent test, Dean is the most essential. Of course, Sam and Castiel are important too. But Dean is key.)
Dean is a good father. He was a good father to Sam, even when he was only 6 years old himself. He was a good father to Ben. He was willing to die for Bobby John. He’s always good with kids. Not only that, but Dean is blunt enough, brave enough, and crazy enough to tell God to God’s face what he thinks. God needs Dean’s advice, his perspective and opinion on family relationships, but he also needs to see what Dean would do if he were in God’s shoes.
[Edit (1/04/21): After seeing Michael and Lucifer (mostly) heal, and after seeing Sam and Dean heal their relationship, God finally has hope for him and Amara. So God logically wants to retrieve Amara from her prison. But how? Well, he could just wander on up to Cain and do it himself, but what would Amara say? “So I see you’ve come crawling back, eh, Chucky?” She wouldn’t be impressed with God. She wouldn’t understand, because she’s hopeless too. SO how to give her hope? How to make her see that she and God can be okay again? Why, stick her near Dean Winchester, of course! So God sets things up for Dean to get and lose the Mark of Cain, thereby ensuring that Amara will feel a connection to Dean and stick around him/keep him alive long enough for Dean to work his life-coach magic.]
In S11, God and Amara heal their relationship because of the hope Sam and Dean gave God, and also the direct advice Dean gives God. God and Lucifer, not so much.
God needs more data. He needs to see what Dean would do. In comes Castiel’s relevance. God sets things up so that Lucifer can have a son. A nephil. Jack. And God points Castiel in Jack’s direction, trusting Castiel’s ability for unconditional love to keep Jack alive long enough for the experiment. Castiel becomes Jack’s father. But Castiel will never betray Jack, the way God betrayed Lucifer. And, besides, Castiel isn’t the target of this experiment. But it is Castiel’s relationship with Dean Winchester that provides the link needed to get the experiment rolling.
Because Jack is Castiel’s son, he is therefore Sam and Dean’s nephew. Except, God has been watching Castiel and Dean. And, frankly, their romantic love for each other is so obvious even God cannot miss it. Through Castiel, Dean sees Jack as his son too. He loves Jack, exactly like a son. In this way, Dean parallels God, and Jack parallels Lucifer.
But God knows Dean would not easily turn on any child, let alone his own child. So God had a plan for that too. One that Amara helped him with.
They brought back Mary Winchester.
Mary is the one person in existence whose loss would hurt Dean enough to spur him to action. So, she was brought back to die. It was a matter of only a few years of gentle prodding to get everything in position. Jack causes Mary’s death. Dean is faced with a horrible decision. If Jack can kill Mary, what’s to say that Sam and Castiel wouldn’t be next? Mary’s death is like everything beginning all over again for Dean as well. Her first death set off a chain reaction, a series of unfortunate events that spanned decades and nearly caused the ruination of not only Dean’s life, but Sam’s and John’s and even the world. That scar, which had healed as well as it could after 70 years, that God saw was healed in 10x05, has been violently opened up again. It’s the only thing that could force Dean’s hand, that could get him to betray Jack and try to kill him. If Jack had killed Sam or Castiel, it wouldn’t have had the same effect. Both Sam and Castiel had died and come back so many times, and while it would hurt Dean and make him doubt Jack, their deaths would be a sacrifice that Dean would feel obligated to respect, to give Jack a second chance like they would both want. (And God has been laying the groundwork for Dean, convincing him that Jack is evil, will be evil like Lucifer, can’t be allowed to live. All things God has thought about Lucifer over time. Was Lucifer inherently evil? Was their rift inevitable?)
So, here it is. The big test. Will Dean kill Jack? Will he betray Jack and cause an unhealable rift? Or will he find a way to heal, like he did with Sam against all the odds?
And, once again, Dean impresses God. He refuses to kill Jack.
But now we’re in the endgame. Sam, Dean and Castiel are aware that Jack’s life was only on the line because of God. It’s not something they can forgive, or understand. They’re all God’s guinea pigs, and while he loves his guinea pigs, he knows he’s hurt them in the name of science, of knowledge. or healing, and God can’t undo what he’s done. Free will is linear, after all. So it is time for the Winchesters, Castiel and Jack included, to be done with God. God is done with them, too. It’s time for them to be free and at peace. The experiments are done. God has decided not to kill Lucifer. He has decided to try to heal. He can get Lucifer out of the Empty and talk and try to fix things. He has forever to fix things, now that he knows he can. (The last element of this, Jack forgiving Dean for trying to kill him, is something I have limited knowledge of, but I am under the impression happens so... To be added in the edit once I finish the series.)
But the only way the Winchesters will be able to rest, is if they think God, the last and greatest villain, is out of the way. They know they’ve been manipulated their whole lives, first towards the sibling experiment and now the parent experiment, so they need to think God is gone so they can feel secure in their free will once more. Truthfully, God never took their free will. He set them up in situations, maybe even gave a bio-chemical nudge of anger (Dean) or attraction (Sam and Eileen) every now and then. But the choices were always theirs. Still, God knows they won’t see it that way. So he sets things up so that they can defeat him.
He lets them win. He wants them to win. They cannot defeat God, after all. It’s not God’s time, and Death is the only one who can claim God in the end, as the two embrace as friends and walk to the next existence. But the Winchesters need this, and so God allows it. A last gift, to the beings who have been such help, hope and inspiration to him.
With an eye for an eventual S16, 15x20 is written to be ‘an ending’ but also one that could easily be reframed as a bad dream.
For example...
Unfortunately, after Jack, suped up on a extra Grace God lent him, restores the Earth and expends all the Grace (”giving up the mantle of God so that their is no God, no plans, only Free Will”), and Dean, Sam and Jack head back to the Bunker to regroup and gather the ingredients to do the spell to rescue Castiel from the Empty, they’re jumped by monsters who are angry with how much God has fucked with them on behalf of the Winchesters. 15x20 is all a djinn dream Dean is trapped in.
16x01 is Dean waking himself up from the djinn dream, Sam and Jack escaping their own monsters, and then the end of 16x01 is Dean saying something about waking Castiel up from his own dreams in the Empty. The rest of S16 sees the boys save Castiel, reunite with Eileen, start a monster-hunting Bobby Singer/Men of Letters-esque organisation, Dean and Castiel getting together and getting married on Valentine’s Day, Jack getting to live a normal life, going to school, making friends, etc.
If their is no S16 ever (which would be criminal), then 15x20 makes no sense, unless it is plainly a recount of an old, hopeless ending written by God. However you spin it, 15x20 is not the way it seems (like owls).
All things being said, God is an antagonist, but he’s not evil. He’s an asshole, sure, but he never once worked against the Winchesters, never bet against them, never tried to erase or end them. He wanted them to win. He wanted to see the fruits of free will be love, second chances, hope, forgiveness, healing, and happiness, not just betrayal, pain, selfishness, jealousy, disappointment, and hopelessness.
Why is the ending he shows Becky ‘hopeless’? Because God is. He has spent his long existence losing his most loved family members. Amara, Lucifer. How can things end well for God, when they can’t even end well for humans? But Sam and Dean defy the script, again and again. They surprise God, defying the statistics, defying the hypotheses, throwing the experiment into disarray. Giving God hope. Sam and Dean were okay. Dean and Jack were okay. If God had a romantic love, he would find hope from Dean and Castiel being okay. But when God wrote the book he showed Becky, he was writing what he thought would happen. In the end, surely, not even Dean can be enough to hold Sam and Cas and Jack together. But in the end, as we see, as God sees, he is proven wrong and he’s happy to be wrong. He’s hopeful. And he can leave Dean, Sam, Castiel and Jack, and all the angels and all the humans, to rule the Earth and the Heavens. He doesn’t need to learn anything more from them, so he heads to the Empty, with Amara, with Lucifer, with Death (Billie or not, Death is there for God in the end), and they can all depart for a better existence of their own.
If you read all of this, thanks! I eagerly anticipate watching the remaining 10 seasons so I can come back and edit the heck outta this, but until then, if y’all have any thoughts, I’d be interested to hear them~
TLDR: God is a morally bankrupt scientist and the Winchesters are his guinea pigs, but he’s not evil and he does love his guinea pigs, even if he could really treat them nicer.
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impala-in-gotham · 2 years
Text
Since literally NONE of us are even close to being at peace with the finale STILL, I think we can all agree here.
Make it make sense.
The entire show is literally about saving people and hunting things, solving cases and fighting big bads. There is nothing more out of character, out of plot, out of the central theme than the entire finale episode. Based off of ALL the canon SPN lore, none of it makes sense.
Supposedly it’s been 5 months since 15x19, and we’re all supposed to believe neither of them have been trying to get Cas back???? (They were literally offering to kill each other to get Cas back via Chuck but didn’t even mention it to new God aka their collective kid?)
A-they know how to summon someone from the Empty (via s14 Lucifer), B-they have some of Cas’ blood to use for it, C-Jack knows the spell, D- Jack IS God. E- Jack brings Cas back anyway and we’re supposed to believe Cas doesn’t go to the bunker ASAP?!? Cas? Bleed for the Winchesters since s4 Cas? That guy. Just noped for 5 months?? Lies. Blasphemy.
Next we have Dean’s stupid death (which sends the worst possible message to mentally ill fans btdubs but anyway…)
A-if Cas is alive and well, you want us to believe he wouldn’t have swooshed right to the dying love of his life?!? B- this is not the first time we’ve been in this situation this is basically the 15th time and they legit raised God almighty but we’re supposed to think Sam wouldn’t call out to Jack or ANY angel?? Sam. Sam Winchester. No. C- Dean suddenly believes in fate and “supposed to be” now? After not at all, strongly against, for 15 years?? Really??
Legit all of Sam’s life looked empty, hollow, and overall sad. He lost everyone he loved most and has to live decades alone. Sam may have gotten the worst ending of all. (Second to Kevin)
Canonically ALL of Heaven looked fake. Like I’ve said it before but so much of what they used mirrors the djinn dream and the beautiful room from s4. So much of it from the saturation to the brand of beer. But the writer’s and cast are swearing up, right, down and sideways that this is the real heaven & ending. Why set it up like that then??? Firm believer that the real heaven that Cas helped build would be closer to Rocky’s than *that*.
Dean’s reactions in Heaven also zero sense. A-seeing og Bobby for the first time since s7 and they don’t even hug each other?? That’s his dad. How were they not more excited to see each other?? B- “Cas helped” and you want us to fully believe Dean isn’t shocked by that? Not a tad miffed? 5 months and he’s def been mourning most of that time and I’m betting some praying occurred. Zero follow up questions? There’s NO way. A *wing flap*and a “hello, Dean” is ALL we needed. C- heaven time goes differently but he was just with Sam, why would he want to see him first over every one else that’s already IN heaven. (Yes there are ways around covid that they could have pulled it off, ✨technology) D- this man spent his ENTIRE life inside the Impala. Yes, he loves Baby. Yes, she would be in his heaven. But that man wanted to go to the beach! He wanted his own place. His own bar. We’re supposed to believe he wanted to go for a drive first and foremost? No. And just leave Bobby after a 2min convo?! No.
There’s probably more but I just can’t wrap my head around any of the finale at all. I don’t understand how any one considered it good. The acting was good. It was emotional. But we simply did not watch the same show the same way if they’re not enraged by how much it got horribly wrong. If one day in the future they come out with whatever reboot and they’re like L-O-L the finale wasn’t “real” and it was bad on purpose THEN it’ll make sense. But i think that’s genuinely why none of us can move on. Cause WTF WAS THAT?!?
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theyarebothgunshot · 3 years
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ROSE I AM FREAKING OUT HAVE YOU SEEN THE PREQUEL STUFF???? WHAT IS GOING ON, my god... I was literally about to go to sleep, decided to check Tumblr one last time and see this.... what WHAT!! WHATTTT!!!!!! I don't even know if this is good bad or what but just JENSEN IS PRODUCING A SUPERNATURAL PREQUEL AND DEAN'S GONNA BE THE NARRATOR OR Sth LIKE???? -🐸
YEAH i am normal about this <3 (jk i am also freaking out) welcome to: people screaming to me in my inbox about prequelgate ft. j/2 fallout theory. let's goooo!
Another copypasta and suddenly chaos machine is full on gay I love this prophecy
you know whats funny i just checked the j/2 tag and i feel like for the first time in a long time they are starting to realise that maybe THEY should be the ones who are "gutted" *sips tea*
ROSE HOLY SHIT ROOOOOOOOSE ITS HAPPENING HOLY SHIIIIIT
YEAH
Nevermind just read prequel and well good luck I guess but just you know kind of bleh who wants to watch John Winchester well let’s have hope anyways
i know a lot of people are bummed out but i am kind of very excited actually?? i trust robbie and even though yeah j*hn winchester turned into a nasty abusive bastard, it can be interesting to explore how it all started (imo). it's just the first of many stories they can tell.
I can only accept this circus if it’s Dean telling the stories to his and Cas’ kids and then we have a revival to show that the whole finale was in fact the end Chuck wanted there Jensen I fixed it
i would not say no to this
heyloo bee anon here
um- wtf is happening?
jackles prequel series?? why? i want to be excited about this but sheesh im scared
because supernatural is never dead <3
okay, but, jensen... john winchester ≠ jdm, you don’t have to go /that/ hard for him 🙃
true true... though i am waiting for jdm to comment on this, please i need it
WAIT A SECOND J2 FALLOUT THEORY TRUE??
LMAO HELL YEAH BESTIE
Rose you really picked the worst time to sleep for real
bestie it was literally 4 in the morning, what do you expect from me sdfjsfhsf
I can’t literally can’t we were all right LMAO j2 fallout theory is real and cockles (Misha supporting Jensen) is [gunshots] I’m just laughing cause what the hell is this timeline we’re living LMAOOOOOOOOOO
we would always end up here <3
Do we have the copypaste anons to thank for JP basically confirming the J2 fallout? lol 🦚
yes, everybody say 'thanks annoying idiots!'
ROSE, WAKE UP, COME HERE,
THERE'S A LOT GOING ON FFS
YEAH I KNOW BUT I NEEDED SLEEP
Anticipating that there's going to be a lot of yelling about the prequel on here: I am cackling, but also, I mean, the first time Dean got a look into his parent's past, Cas was the catalyst: literally entered Dean's mind and catapulted him to the 70s. So idk, it's not completely unreasonable to expect some Cas cameos, maybe setting up a parallel timeline since Dean is narrating. What I'm saying is, this is Jackles, he's getting JDM and Misha in on this lmao -Honeymoon Anon
you were right lmfaooo also i fully agree. misha's tweet further cemented that thought for me. he knew about this prequel and i dont think he is cas-baiting us, i think he'll be involved. i'd also be obsessed to see jensen and jdm act together again (though idk who jdm could play seeing as it's a prequel and he is way too old to play young j*hn)
longlivethetribbles heeft gevraagd:
Heyyyyyy bestie, are you SEEING the absolute madness going on right now holy shit
well a little late but I SURE AM BESTIE
bestie wake up pls s16 finale just dropped.
- 🍯
and WHAT a great one it was
I love coming home from work to see all of the chaos unfolding on Tumblr and Twitter. I'm absolutely buzzing right now. I'll probably still be here by the time you wake up and check tumblr 😂 - 🐢
lmaooo and were you still awake?? did you see my freak out??
Oooh bestie wake the fuck up, I know you’re gonna be excited for this one jsnsjsj
god i had SUCH a morning like. it's 12:00 now and all i did since i woke up is check tumblr rip
short summary: jen and dee gain the rights, they post on ig/twitter about a prequel ft john and mary that no one asked for, the fandom loses its everloving shit as usual, they trend on twitter thanks to the beloved twt intern who missed us, misha qt’s jen about cas possibly benefiting from being in the prequel, then j*red qt’s jensen abt how his feelings got hurt by him not being told about a prequel his character as no involvement in & he initially throws a tantrum, and the rest is history - 🦋 anon (ps: i hope this helps a little, i’ve been scattered brained trying to keep up with it all night lmao so pls let me know if i missed anything, bug crew !!)
thank you so much darling i figured it out eventually but this is a helpful summary!!!
I hope you enjoyed waking up to all of this XD -🐢
i sure did!!! also that answers my question about you being awake lmao
I WILL NEVER EVER EVER FORGIVE MYSELF FOR SLEEPING THROUGH ALL OF THIS DRAMA AND NOT EXPERIENCING IT IN PERSON I DIDN'T NEED THIS SLEEP - tea anon
well the party was still going strong this morning so im not TOO "gutted" see what i did there lmaooo
Now that you are caught up with the news... So idk if you remember this but...didn't jarpad tell jackles he was up for a reboot in an online panel? And jackles answered that this was news to him??
-🍯
yeah i think you are right but he was clearly joking and didnt expect jackles to actually be working on something already
J2 anon spare more of those anons let's finish this - tea anon
please, we're having a ball in this bitch
I saw a post on tumblr where someone said now that Kripke gave J&D the rights, maybe they’re starting with a prequel just to end on a reboot in years time and honestly ? I wanna believe that so badly. This is tinhatty but what if this is all calculated in a way that makes it so that Jensen is slowly starting to fix everything that was wrong with spn - now that he has the rights and he’s slowly making spn his own story ?! I mean he did say in his ig post he wants to ‘fill in the rest’ - and maybe Mary and John’s story is only the beginning of spn related content from J&D to come ??? Maybe he wants to give spn the justice it deserves ?? Thoughts ??
i dont think this is tinhatty at all i think this is very possible and not that much of a reach. i could see this happening yeah for sure
want to hear something funny. I found out I had a ruptured blood vessel in my eye because I was sending my friend a video freaking out when the prequel news dropped and I noticed the corner of my eye was red af. and when I got back online jared had tweeted.
DJFHSJD ANON THE CHAOS OF IT ALL, HELP, are you okay? <3
rose.. bestie... how are you feeling about The News? nsfshsf being european is a curse </3 🐞
i feel GREAT im living for it i feel on top of the world tbh (and yeah it really is dsjfhs)
What am I waking up to I can't WHAT I rested my eyes for like 5 minutes help *hits reblog button* - anon anon
yep yep essentially djfhs
“Jensen and Misha are Co workers who barley talk”
I can’t be sure of course but I’m fairly certain that this is the copypasta that brought the j/2 fallout theory back to life. Who’s apparently ‘barely talking’ now? skansjsjsj. It’s almost prophetic, these j/2 anons have superpowers I’m telling ya.
-poker face anon
next time we get one of them we should be thanking them lmaooo
ok, but are we gonna talk about the "When Daneel and I formed Chaos Machine Productions, we knew that the first story we wanted to tell was the story of John and Mary Winchester [...]"-quote because the way this is phrased implies they formed CHAOS MACHINE Productions with the intent of telling this story (first), i haven't been in this dumpster long enough but the name just tickles me in that Misha way, isn't it so sus??? am i missing something???? i mean with this announcement they SURE lived up to that name... 🧩-anon
you are absolutely right, chaos machine SCREAMS misha and we are all here for it!!
hey hey hey. joining the clownverse, there's no way THEE cas girl danneel doesn't know just how much the fandom loves misha and cas. so 2 + 2 = misha in the spn prequel!
AGREED
So I think I finally managed to catch up on wtf happened while I was asleep and my brain melted. What a shit show to wake up to.
Anyway thoughts.
I don't hate the idea of a Mary&John sequel. I think it has the potential to be good (It has the potential to be really bad too, so I'm kind scared).
🕯️🕯️🕯️ manifesting Mary being badass and John being kinda useless🕯️🕯️🕯️
As for the Jensen and J*red thing.
I can see Jensen not telling J*red even if they are still friends, because J*red is kinda good at accidentally telling Secrets. He could have told him right before he announced it so, so that J*red didn't have to find out from twitter. He was on the show for 15 years, he is bound to get asked about it. The public twitter meltdown was really unprofessional so. Like you have Jensen's number J*red. You could have sorted that out in private like a normal person, but instead you choose to act like a toddler throwing a tantrum.
Is it weird that I'm actually going to be kinda that for them if the actually had a falling out, even tho I don't like J*red all that much. They seemed to be really important to each other and while I thought before that the might have triefted apart a bit, I didn't think that the where actively fighting.
- 🐌 anon
the thing is, the polite/normal thing for jensen to do was text him before announcing it on twitter. it's weird he didn't, and that makes me believe that maybe yeah they did have a falling out. especially with the way j*red responded to it on twitter. if he had no other reason to be this upset (no prior beef or falling out) you'd think that he wouldn't be responding like this. on the other hand, the man is a mysterie to me so who the hell knows. i'm not gonna mourn about it if they did/do grow apart because j*red is just.... awful imo.
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finaledenialist · 3 years
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Okay, your tags on The Empty Post have showed up in my notes and I have to ask. Tell me more. Tell me it all. All of the feelings and thoughts about that scene because what I’ve seen so far? Absolute perfection and I agree wholeheartedly.
Thank you! Okay I basically unloaded most of my thoughts in my tags here but let’s go through this one more time. I may add: this was already said a thousand times by better meta writers than me 3 years ago when season 13 was actually airing. And I will ramble a little about Purgatory, too. Now with that out of the way: 
The Empty. Canonically it is a being, a living immortal being that rules the place or an ‘anti-place’ where angels and demons go are sent to when they die to dream of their regrets forever (this sounds awful and like a punishment for dying despite being immortal, for getting themselves killed or something). Also: the Empty was there before Creation, the Nothingness before Darkness and before Light. 
Okay. But let’s see what other things the Empty represents: lack of anything. Complete nothingness that Cas got sucked into (by Lucifer but also by helping the Winchesters). Now we know that Cas‘I am afraid I might kill myself’tiel had his issues, right (I still can’t believe that we are praising 8x08 thee Hunteri Heroici for being a filler episode with Cas - which is awesome, don’t get me wrong - but we all keep forgetting what he actually did say to Dean there!!! Dean says: are you afraid the angels will kill you if you show up in Heaven? And Cas looks straight into his eyes and says: After all I’ve done, when I see Heaven, I am afraid I might kill myself).
Please remember that it’s not only Dean, Mr. ‘Purgatory was pure’. Cas, after all he did in season 6, after his death in s7, after coming back and being literally haunted by everything he’s done, must have felt that Purgatory was liberating, too. It was some kind of an Alternative Universe where he didn’t have to face the consequences of his actions. He was free of them. It was literally his escape AND additionally it was (well, according to good old christian lore, maybe not specifically spn lore) a place where you are supposed to atone for your sins so there must have been the feeling of atoning, of making things right without actually doing anything specific, where having to survive and not get eaten by the Leviathans was his main problem (= surviving was just enough, nothing was asked of him), which, compared to all he’s done, wasn’t that hard or difficult. He found himself running away from Leviathans which could mirror running away from consequences of his actions - but it was Purgatory, it was at the same time atoning for what he did. It was EASY.
Cas basically confirms that he officially stayed in Purgatory because he didn’t think he deserved to go back to Earth and that is true but what he doesn’t say is: ‘Purgatory was pure and easy and kill or be killed and no other worries than that, no thinking, no real responsibilities which actually was a nice escape from the real world after all I did and been through in the past 3 years’. He wanted out, he wanted an easy choice. Okay, maybe he wasn’t actively looking for an easy way out but when it presented itself - when they appeared in Purgatory - he took it like a gift. We’re talking about a character who spent all his life following orders, who finally broke free and found himself completely lost in the freedom of choices, directionless and maybe wanted an escape. He must have felt overwhelmed but all this freedom (which he basically confirms in 6x20 freedom is a length of rope and god wants you to hang yourself with it). I COMPLETELY understand that choice to escape. 
So in seasons 8-12 Cas has a lot of stuff going on in his head, he gets lobotomized for most of season 8, he is hurt and tortured and treated like shit for most of season 9 and 10 and he ultimately gives himself up to Lucifer in s11 and then he almost dies in 12x12 and he never really got to talk about all of this or work this things out with anyone because Sam or Dean are not really the most talkative guys and Dean in 10x09 basically tells Cas to ‘let it go and not think about it’ which is a shitty advice to someone who suffers from some mental issues if I am being honest (this is like. ur depressed? oh go for a run and smile and stop being sad!!! kind of advice if you ask me). So these issues only grow and grow and start eating him up and please remember that at the very same time Cas is falling in love. I said it previously but I think the moment he realizes what he really feels is 12x12 when he is dying. In that moment he is able to name this feeling but it’s of course covered by: ‘I love you. I love all of you’. 
Now in season 12 he finally gets a proper arc with Kelly (god bless her, honestly, she and Cas had one of the most healthy relationships ever portrayed on tv and it wasn’t even romantic, I could go off about this but it’s getting really long anyway). So he kind of is on his way to find a purpose again - Dean is saved (from hell, from Michael, from the Mark), so he focuses on Kelly and unborn Jack and maybe in his relationship with her he rediscovers love (not necessarily romantic but he sees how she loves Jack) and he does all he can to protect her from basically everyone including the Winchesters. And he promises he will take care of Jack and then. Then he is killed by Lucifer (shattered at the altar of Winchester because he gets involved in the Apocalypse World because of them while having built something for himself with Kelly and Jack BUT still not having properly processed all his previous trauma). 
Okay, so fast forward: Cas is woken up by Jack in the Empty. He is of course confused and stuff (we still don’t know what was he dreaming about all this time he spent there now that we know this is a place where angels and demons dream about their mistakes and regrets <- fanfiction gap #1). He wakes up, he is ‘greeted’ by the Empty and one of the first things he says is that he has to go back because Sam and Dean need him. 
This is his first, automatic thought - I (probably) don’t want to go back, but Sam and Dean need me so I have to, I don’t want to go back for myself because I never wanted to since Purgatory but I know I have to. He doesn’t even think about Jack in this moment. I... maybe it is a stretch but I sense a kind of fear in these words. It’s like he thinks: ‘if I had the chance to come back and chose not to come back from selfish reasons then if the Winchesters ever find out about this they will be angry at me’. But I might be reading too much into this, but on the other hand Jesus fucking Christ this is precisely what happened in Purgatory. He chose to stay although he had a chance to return and the effect was Dean being mad at him. Talk about trauma--
Then the Empty (who was in Cas’ mind) voices his biggest fears: 
'I know who you love, I know what you fear. There is nothing for you back there. Wouldn't you rather be a fond memory than a constant festering disappointment?'
There is a lot to unpack here because this is the Empty’s (who, as stated at the beginning can be read as a manifestation of not only death but also Cas’ depression and self-worth issues) reaction to Cas saying that Sam and Dean need him. She says: uh oh you’re wrong<3 I know who you love, what you fear, the is nothing there for you, sweetie. Essentially: they don’t need you. No one needs you or wants you there. They are better off without you. Wouldn’t you rather be a fond memory (of actually being useful as in: saving Dean from hell, helping to stop the Apocalypse, helping to fight the Leviathans) than a disappointment (failing powers, makes mistake after a mistake, chooses to protect the unborn Antichrist rather than killing him before he’s born - and not to make this whole thing worse but this is what Dean has the audacity to say to Cas in 15x03: why if something goes wrong it always seem to be you).
I will now allow myself for some privacy, because I am a person who dealt with these kind of thoughts in my head for years, these are straight up suicidal thoughts: no one needs you, no one wants you, you are a disappointment and if you die you will be fondly remembered, everyone is better off without you. And we know Cas was suicidal because he literally tells us in 8x08 and we have no proof that he somehow got rid of these thoughts, ever. If anything, they were always there, present, if not growing. Thoughts like that don’t just disappear. Please remember one more time what was happening to Cas in seasons 8-11. He wasn’t healing. He was getting worse, while all this time managing to keep his head above water for someone else, while the guilt was rising and rising. 
If the Empty represents all his issues: depression, suicidal thoughts, guilt, self-hate, lack of self-worth, and what she offers is: eternal sleep. Maybe not entirely peaceful sleep, but sleep nevertheless, no consequences, no facing your fears, no dealing with anything, an escape, sleep - 
And she prompts him to stop fighting, to go back to sleep because there is nothing to fight for (now the symbolism of him being waken up by JACK who was his new found purpose just before he got killed), but she makes a mistake to confront his thoughts and fears with him. She makes a mistake of taking a ‘physical’ form, putting on his face and voice his fears. And Cas is a warrior and he kind of hates himself, so his instinct was to fight. Of course it was easier not to think about all of these stuff at all, to push it back, to try to forget. But once he was forced to face all of these? He fought back. AND HE WON!!!!! 
WHAT A MESSAGE TO SEND RIGHT?!!! You might have all these issues and not want to face them because you feel you will crush under them but look: when you are forced to face them it turns out you are somehow way stronger than them!!! The moment you choose to fight you already won, you are already saved!!! Because ultimately these are your thoughts and this is your mind and you control it, no one else! The moment you decide, you choose, to take control: you win. You are saved because you chose to save yourself because you decided you are worth saving. And the Empty (and everything she represents) immediately gets angry and lets him go, ultimately annoyed because he dared to defy her and she just can’t win with someone who decides he wants to be free. WHAT. 👏🏻  A.  👏🏻 WONDERFUL. 👏🏻  MESSAGE.  👏🏻
So... Having said all that. There is only one thing left: I have NO IDEA. NO IDEA. HOW HE FOUND THE STRENGTH. TO STAND UP AND SAY THIS:
I'm already saved. You can prance and you can preen and you can scream and yell and remind me of my failings but somehow, I'm awake. And I will stay awake and I will keep you awake until we both go insane. I will fight you. Fight you and fight you for... ever. For eternity.
A FUCKING ICON. STRONGEST CHARACTER EVER. YOUR FAVE COULD NEVER--
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