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#(romantic samfro is valid)
spock-smokes-weed · 1 year
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Here's my first real attempt at a fan edit! Never Love an Anchor by The Crane Wives!!! I'm really proud of how it came out!!
I've always thought the lyrics fit Frodo so well, so much so that this song was at the top of my Spotify wrapped hahaha
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velvet4510 · 11 days
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i saw these two people in the tolkien discord server i’m in say this, and while i can see their point (i 100% believe that men should be able to be affectionate without romantic undertones), i just feel like so many people get the wrong idea that samfro shippers merely see them as “gay and cute”
most of us accept all interpretations of their relationship, whether that’s soulmates, queer-platonic, romantic, etc
i was wondering what your opinion on this is??
Great question! SO sorry for the delay in responding. I hope to make my reply worth the wait. Also, this answer will be really long - sorry again - but I have many thoughts on this.
I completely agree that men should be able to be affectionate without it being romantic. Women do not have this problem of fearing open affection due to assumptions about sexuality, and I think it’s a terrible symptom of toxic masculinity for men to forbid themselves from showing affection out of fear of it being misinterpreted. LOTR is full of many beautiful examples of how men can be emotionally vulnerable with each other and how platonic friends can still physically express innocent affection (Aragorn’s kiss to Boromir’s forehead is a great example). Modern society should definitely follow the examples set by these characters.
The thing is, as a straight woman, I did not go into LOTR expecting to see any same-sex romances at all. And the majority of male friendships depicted in the book and films never gave me any sense of romantic undertones. Unlike many fans, I do not ship Legolas and Gimli because I recognize that their relationship is a bridge between Elves and Dwarves, proof that they can get along, that despite their differences, they can still find common ground and respect each other and be friends. This to me is a far more important message than a generic “forbidden romantic love story” that many view their relationship as. Their bond isn’t necessarily about wanting to sleep together, but more about recognizing that they can like and be fond of each other, and not allow their parents or cultures to influence how they view each other. I do not hate the Gigolas ship, of course, and people can feel free to ship them if they want to. But to me, they fall under the category described in the discord that you have shared: their friendly intimacy does not necessarily signify anything romantic. Even their journey into the West together does not have to be a romantic thing; I see it as Gimli not wanting to say goodbye to any more of his friends, after losing Merry, Pippin, and Aragorn, and instead going on one last adventure with his soul-brother Legolas.
Frodo and Sam, however, have always stood out to me as being different from all the other friendships in LOTR. I didn’t even take any pause in the fact that they’re both male. I just saw two people in love. It’s just in how they are written, and in Elijah and Sean’s beautiful performances. I totally agree that ANY interpretation of their relationship is valid. I think it is very wrong for any shipper of these two to insult or declare someone “wrong” to see them as just friends. But it’s the same the other way around. It is unfair for non-shippers to hate on shippers. While the argument regarding Tolkien’s Catholicism is an understandable one, texts and characters do develop lives of their own over time. Texts are meant to be interpreted. Tolkien himself wrote that he did not want to enforce his own beliefs within the story, and instead preferred to leave it open to readers to apply their own views and perspectives to it. He basically was inviting us to make interpretations that deviate from his own. He may not have had sexuality in mind when he wrote this, but if he were alive, I very much doubt he’d be hypocritical enough to criticize people for doing the very thing he encouraged them to do, especially since he was smart enough to know that not every reader of his work was or would be Catholic, and thus may not see certain aspects the way he did.
The main, unchangeable, factual point about Frodo and Sam’s relationship is that they love each other. That’s it. They go from formal master and servant to two people who have been through hell and back together, and in the process, formed a bond that nobody else will ever understand. This point stands, whether their specific feelings for each other are platonic or romantic. To view them as lovers does not take away from or undermine the foundations of how Tolkien shaped their characters and the connection they build.
It also bothers me how those who criticize this ship use the word “gay.” Bear in mind, of course, that I’m not an actual member of the LGBT community, and I’m speaking based on my love for my many LGBT friends and relatives, and the efforts I’ve made to understand and empathize with this community, and to never be among those who hate people based on who they love. But I’ve learned enough by now to know that it is quite ignorant of people to truncate the idea of Frodo and Sam being in love as “they’re gay.” Sam is not gay, as shown by his love for Rosie. To ship Frodo and Sam is not to erase Rosie or pretend Sam doesn’t love her. Sam has the biggest heart of any fictional character I’ve ever seen, and I, like many shippers, don’t find it implausible that he has room enough in that heart to have two great loves.
On that note, I’ll now signify that in the text Frodo and Sam have many moments that no other pair of male characters have, which serve as actual potential evidence of a romance. It says in the text itself that he is “torn in two” between Frodo and Rosie. No other pair of male characters in LOTR has any moment like this. Aragorn does not feel torn between Arwen and his friends, for instance. Sam hesitating to marry Rosie if it means he can’t be near Frodo is a very unique detail that adds weight to this “ship.” Not to mention the way Sam strokes Frodo’s hand in Rivendell and blushes, or calls himself “your Sam,” or has a Romeo-like moment of falsely believing Frodo is dead, or longs for the touch of Frodo’s hand in the Tower of Cirith Ungol. Plus, don’t forget that in another of Tolkien’s writings, Elanor directly compares Sam losing Frodo to Celeborn losing his wife. Also, I and many others have described how Frodo and Sam’s story directly parallels that of two canon lovers, Beren and Lúthien. Again, platonic interpretations of all this are valid, but it’s important to remember that shippers are not making things up. We’re not saying or believing that Frodo and Sam are in love “because they’re cute”. There are many moments between them in the text that support this interpretation, not the least of which is a direct parallel to a canon romantic couple - and without context, many of their exchanges and moments could easily be seen in a romantic light. (Sam watching Frodo sleep and saying “I love him, whether or no,” and declaring his one wish after potentially completing the Quest alone is not to return to the Shire and Rosie, but to return to Frodo’s body and never leave him again … all these things are right there in the text. Merry and Pippin, Legolas and Gimli, Aragorn and Boromir, none of them have any moments like this.)
And Sam’s journey across the Sea does not have nearly as much ambiguity as Gimli’s. Gimli has more to gain by going than staying; to stay would be to be left alone with no family and no more Elves or hobbits around, while to go would be to stand by his best friend, see the woman he loves/deeply admires again (Galadriel), and not face any more goodbyes. He wouldn’t really lose anything by leaving with Legolas, only gain. Sam’s circumstances are completely different. He has many people in the Shire; 13 children and countless grandchildren who could take care of him. He could easily spend his last days peacefully living with Elanor and watching her children grow, as any old hobbit would typically do. To sail West would be to lose and permanently be separated from a countless number of loved ones. And though he was affected by the Ring as a Ring-bearer, he held it for a very brief time, short enough for it to not prevent him from having a normal life after the war. It cannot be easily assumed that the lasting effect of the Ring on him was so powerful that it made him happier to leave his family than to stay with them. Because what would be waiting for him in Valinor? Gimli had two people in Valinor to whom he was very close, Legolas and Galadriel, as opposed to no loved ones back in Middle-earth. But Sam had one person in Valinor to whom he was very close, Frodo, as opposed to dozens of loved ones back in Middle-earth. The fact that he chooses Frodo over his family, to live with Frodo rather than die with and rest beside Rosie, to see Frodo again rather than see his family as much as possible in his remaining days…is a major point worth considering, and another thing that adds a layer of credibility to the idea of shipping them.
So to sum it all up, to say “you just ship Frodo and Sam because you don’t know what friendship is, because you think they’re cute so they must want to sleep together” is a MASSIVE trivialization/oversimplification/misunderstanding and completely ignores the things I’ve just laid out, particularly the distinctions between their relationship and those of other male pairings in LOTR.
Ok, ramble time is over…Boy, I hope that made at least one lick of sense! Haha.
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hacash · 3 years
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every so often you see the debate about whether or not samfro works better as a romantic or platonic relationship and all I can say is: look. looklooklook. the point of frodo and sam’s relationship isn’t romance or platonic friendship or whether or not they’re having sex, it’s the love. that’s it. that’s literally the whole thing. that takes priority over anything else.
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forestfullofberries · 3 years
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Straight person: Sam and Frodo aren't dating because they're not gay
Me: You Fool. You Absolute Moron. How Can You Not See. Their Relationship Is The Most Romantic Thing To Ever Exist. Now Be Gone. Never Speak Of Them Again.
Aro/ace person: Sam and Frodo aren't dating because platonic love is not inferior to romantic love and they can very much be friends who care for each other more then anything else is the world and this doesn't have to be romantic
Me: actually you know what? You are absolutely right and platonic samfro is valid as hell. Thank you.
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spock-smokes-weed · 1 year
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I see a lot is ppl saying they’re a little torn with shipping Sam and Frodo because “it’s good to have depictions of a healthy friendship between two men” and while I understand that perspective, I kinda disagree with the angle it’s coming from.
Because for me it’s less about men having good friend rep on screen, because let’s be honest men have a lot of good friend rep on screen, and far more about the way Tolkien depicts friendships.
Cus like all of LOTR is about the love between the characters. The love and respect everyone has for each other; and it’s never once played for a joke. The love everyone feels for their friends is what saved the day in the end. Platonic love is one that often doesn’t get a lot of respect in society, putting a lot of emphasis on either familial or romantic love. So seeing Sam and Frodo, two friends who are unabashed about their love for each other, it really hits because you just don’t see love between friends revered in that kind of way. 
When I first finished the LOTR movies, Sam reminded me of my best friend from childhood who I’m still friends with. A friend who has a boyfriend, but a friend I’m not shy about how much I love. I wouldn’t hesitate to follow her into the depths of mount doom because she’s a friend I care deeply about. We all have a Sam Gamgee in our lives and I’m glad Tolkien immortalized that kind of love in LOTR
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