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raine-kai · 11 months

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Third Prince from Love Like the Galaxy

Ok so after the like, half a dozen times I have seen Love Like the Galaxy, of course I adore the Third Prince. The first time I watched it, that was the biggest twist for me. Like, sure, we get that Zisheng has secrets and has been hiding his true identity--no plot description ever let us forget that, even though you have to get into the 40s before the show even starts dropping you the hints about the truth of that. Shaoshang keeps saying, "I'll stand by you unless you deceive me" etc etc she says it a couple times in a few different ways which signaled to me ok he is *definitely* deceiving her, and probably with more than just his secret identity.

Anyway, all of this pays off beautifully. Shaoshang works out a whole bunch of the truth all by herself. She and Zisheng have a confrontation about the ways in which he's been using her as a shield to hide his political movements, and she gives Zisheng FOUR openings over the course of like, 45mins of runtime to tell her the truth. But he never does, anyway she goes to his aid anyway, because liar or no, Zisheng doesn't get to go to his tragic death without Shaoshang's permission. Cue the him trying to push her away and she refusing...right up until they're trapped on the cliff and he abandons her for his presumed death.

BUT THEN.

The Third Prince storming her home and Shaoshang just ambling out of her room to the standoff to sit down on the floor and be like, "Don't worry guys, this is Zisheng's best friend. He needs me to help save Zisheng. So, Third Prince, what do you think we should do? He wouldn't wanna live in exile till you come to power like you guys have been planning, doncha think?" and I was like 🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯

WHAT.

THIRD PRINCE.

The guy who is always snarking in the background??? Who never has even the hint of a kind word to ANYONE. This is Zisheng's best frien-

Okay you know what, never mind, I can see that. Dude even presented evidence to get his sister punished for a crime she committed, and as we have established with Shaoshang, people who go for justice over family ties are DEFINITELY Zisheng's favorite type of person.

Anyway, so this guy is Zisheng's best friend. They've been best friends for as long as Zisheng has been in the palace, we learn, and that story Crown Princess Consort told Shaoshang about the Crown Prince rescuing Zisheng from the water? Turns out that was Third Prince, actually.

That scene at the banquet where Third Prince chides everybody for cozying up to Zisheng now that he's risen to power, and implores them all to remember who was kind to him from the start? That's not him calling them out on hypocrisy so much as staking his territory...in a way that only perhaps he, Zisheng and the Crown Prince understand (more on this later).

Pre-Reveal Third Prince in the Rewatch Experience

On rewatch, the connection between Third Prince and Zisheng is increasingly obvious. Zisheng is overtly tied to the original Crown Prince (Zikun), and Third Prince (Ziduan) despises him. On initial watch, I completely missed it because it wasn't clear to me that Third Prince cuts a fine line where he despises Zikun and everything to do with him, except for Zisheng.

NOTE: Zikun and Ziduan are original Crown Prince and Third Prince's respective courtesy names from the book, and I am going to use them going forward because it's easier than constantly trying to keep track of them via title, especially when they both held the Crown Prince title at some point.

The two of them putting on a public show of being barely civil really doesn't help things for first-time viewers, but once you see through the facade, it's increasingly obvious.

The first time we see this faked antagonism flat-out is in ep 24 when Zisheng brings Shaoshang to sit beside him, in line with Zikun (Crown Prince at the time). Ziduan immediately uses this to take a verbal stab at Zikun. Zikun (in character for him) brushes this off and points out that Zisheng is the one who brought her, while Ziduan's words lump Zikun together with Zisheng, using Shaoshang's unearned place at Zisheng's side as a sign of their ineptitude. As that scene goes on and Zisheng requests the Emperor for a betrothal, and Shaoshang's mother steps in to try to find an excuse to avoid the engagement, Ziduan is the one who articulates what's going on: that the Cheng family fears Ling Buyi to such an extent that they are willing to disparage their daughter in public to avoid a betrothal.

Going forward from here, Ziduan continues to be a fairly snarky background presence, with his noteworthy moments in the 30s being the time he brought evidence against Third Princess for using counterfeit currency, and his involvement in the playacted show that was Zisheng's "punishment" in episode 38. The punishment sequence is particularly entertaining to me to watch in retrospect, knowing that Zisheng is very much part of this show and Ziduan is his best friend, because Ziduan is visibly having fun.

One thing that I've spent a lot of time pondering is the way that, during the Huo memorial banquet, Ziduan called out everybody in the room for cozying up to Zisheng now that he has power and influence, when they used to think so little of him. He implores them all to remember who took Zisheng's side back then—which we audience, through the story the Crown Princess Consort tells Shaoshang, are led to believe refers principally to Zikun. It's only after the reveal of Ziduan and Zisheng's friendship in episode 49 that we learn that this story is incorrect—that Ziduan was the one who pulled Zisheng out of the water, and that they have been friends ever since.

This is a particularly interesting moment to me, because surely the three involved—Zisheng, Ziduan, Zikun—have not forgotten the truth of that story. But at the same time, it makes little sense for Ziduan to speak up that way if he had intended it as an outright "Zisheng is MINE, hands off". (In the corresponding scene in the novel, he does seem to be more overtly pointing out that only he has treated Zisheng well through the years, but if we start mixing canons we'll be here all day—not least because I am constrained by the limitations of navigating machine translation and my poor language abilities with the original text.) The two of them have spent too long concealing their connection for that, even within the palace walls. So I'm left to conclude that for whatever reason, they have been feeding the false rumor that Zikun was the one who saved Zisheng that day.

The issue of the tiger tally is a fascinating one once we understand all the motivations at play, because Zisheng very much supports Ziduan's bid for the throne, but he is moving against his uncle the Marquis Yue, who is one of Ziduan's most ardent supporters. The silent interplay between Zisheng and Ziduan when the supposedly-stolen tiger tally is seemingly present and accounted for is fascinating. Ziduan is visibly taken aback, and looks at Zisheng like he knows he has had something to do with this. At the same time, he says nothing even as his uncle tries to press, assuming the tally is a counterfeit. Zisheng is not merely compromising his own political schemes for Shaoshang here. He is caught in between Shaoshang—who has firmly allied herself with Zikun and Empress Xuan—and Ziduan, and he is going out of his way to maneuver in such a way where both of them remain protected, while also doing his best to salvage what he can of the plan for Ziduan (as evidenced by the fact that he did not return the tiger tally).

When Zisheng makes his choice to go after Ling Yi the way he does, it is Shaoshang who points out that he used the tiger tally knowing that it would result in Zikun being deposed, like a last gift to Ziduan. Ziduan denies this fervently, insisting that he did not want to implicate Zikun for Shaoshang's sake, but she brushes this aside. Zisheng is a detail-minded person, and he's excellent at using one action to cover multiple schemes. He knew what he was doing.

Ziduan's Conspiracy to Overthrow Zikun, and Zisheng's Involvement

We learn from Ziduan's words to Shaoshang that though Zisheng was with him and his uncle that day in the pagoda, Zisheng did not agree to join their conspiracy. Zisheng has never exposed Ziduan's intentions beyond the time he implored Shaoshang to stay away from the Eastern Palace because "someone is moving against it". It seems from Ziduan's words that he at the very least believes that Zisheng requires full plausible deniability for Shaoshang if nothing else. It's possible that Ziduan himself even believes that he does not have Zisheng's full support—although he trusts him to never get him in trouble, so the word "full" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here.

The relationship between Zikun and Zisheng and Ziduan is a fascinating one. While there is no doubt that Ziduan is Zisheng's truest friend, his relationship with Zikun is not as straightforward as, Zisheng actively wants him deposed for Ziduan, though this is the place that relationship is in by the time Shaoshang enters the palace. Zisheng has grown up at Zikun's side, and has been shown to be consistently giving him good advice through the years. Even when the issue of the tiger tally comes up, the seemingly cruel advice Zisheng offers—that the one way out is for the Crown Princess Consort to confess her part and take the blame—is genuine. For all of Zikun's failings, he had the potential to be a decent ruler, if he had decent people by his side. But Zikun has consistently chosen the wrong people, and taken bad advice, and the Crown Princess Consort does nothing but exacerbate this problem. Zisheng's advice is one that is designed to mitigate the ability of the Crown Princess Consort to continue causing future damage—though given his history with counseling Zikun against marrying her or appointing her relatives, it seems a foregone conclusion that Zikun will not take it.

Zisheng is of course biased toward Ziduan over Zikun, but he has given Zikun several chances to fix things as much as possible. While he might not have the same personal warmth for Zikun that he has for Ziduan, he has not given up on Zikun because of this. By the time Shaoshang enters the palace, we understand that if she did not get in the way, Zisheng is happy to actively take steps to get Zikun deposed—but this is only after years of trying to advise Zikun in vain.

Absolutely nobody has any hard feelings in the long run about Ziduan's conspiracy either... Well, maybe Zikun does, we don't get to hear his thoughts on the subject—but he takes criticism so well and so humbly that I don't believe he'd hold a grudge, at least not in the long term. Even Empress points out on her deathbed that she doesn't need Yue Heng to offer her any promises or assurances about her family, when Ziduan has everything under control. The love and trust the Empress shows in that moment is profound—though of course she was also very much part of the "get Zikun out of this position" committee, as much for his own sake as the country's.

Ziduan and Shaoshang

The relationship between Ziduan and Shaoshang is not a harmonious one—and I spend a lot of time contemplating if it only became as combative as it did because Zisheng was hiding Ziduan from Shaoshang and shielding Shaoshang (and Zikun) from Ziduan, or if they were always going to clash no matter what.

They are essentially in a tug of war of Zisheng's loyalty that Shaoshang does not know she is engaging in for most of the narrative. Ziduan, meanwhile, might claim that he is only being antagonistic to keep up the act, but I do feel some of his frustration directed at Shaoshang must be real, given how much her presence has altered Zisheng's priorities. While Zisheng never fully betrays either of them for the other, he also can never fully support either—by some definition, he has betrayed both of them in small ways in defense of the other.

What strikes me most of all is that Ziduan does seem to warm up to Shaoshang very rapidly once they actually begin to speak plainly to each other—though there's no indication that she has ever warmed to him in return. The fact is that in their interactions in episode 49, Shaoshang is once again (and for the last time in the narrative) placed between Zisheng and Ziduan: specifically because Ziduan needs to save Zisheng, and he knows that only Shaoshang can, but she has the gall to be abed with "illness". Their resulting dialogue is so perfect and so well-acted, I love watching Ziduan's microexpressions throughout. Shaoshang's monologue about her worth is one of my favorite moments in the drama.

I say that Shaoshang is between Zisheng and Ziduan in these scenes only because I do believe that is how Ziduan sees her, initially. But in fact, Ziduan and Shaoshang are fully united in episode 49 as the two people who are willing to burn the world down to save Zisheng. Through the narrative, we have seen so many people try to appeal to Zisheng, and so many people who claimed to love him. Yet in episode 49, we see that not even the Emperor or Zikun or Uncle Cui can bring themselves to defend what seems an entirely inexplicable descent into patricide, no matter how loathsome Ling Yi was. It is Ziduan who goes fully feral, as Shaoshang had the night of Ling Yi's birthday banquet. It's Ziduan who storms the Cheng house, ready to drag Shaoshang out of bed, chastises her for not caring enough, snaps at the entire court to shut up, lays out how much Zisheng ought to mean to them, as a nominal member of their family.

In a world full of characters who claimed to love Zisheng, when he is truly in crisis, it is Shaoshang and Ziduan who stand by his side and refuse to budge.

For several viewings—until yesterday, in fact—I had been assuming that Ziduan must have a wife, somewhere in the narrative. But on closer inspection of the unnamed members of the imperial family...it does appear possible that he doesn't have one. Which seems odd, on one hand, because if Zisheng being single at his age is treated as such a big deal, then surely Ziduan is in a similar boat? Especially vying for the Crown Prince title as he is—surely he needs a wife?

I end up believing that surely he must have one, though based on what we know of his personality, I doubt it is romantic, if it is even sexual. It seems to me that Ziduan largely sees women as property, as pawns in his game. Or maybe this is just how he sees Shaoshang, who is the only woman we truly see him interact with as a person. (Even his presenting the evidence of Third Princess's crimes was so throwaway that she might have been anybody. Presumably his relationship with his mother is doing well enough, as he escapes the fire hose of her tongue lashing at the Huo memorial banquet, but we don't get to see their relationship either.) His (entirely unfair) criticisms of Shaoshang might just be what he thinks wives ought to be—but more likely, I see it as him trying to push her to "prove her worth" so to speak, as the person who has caused Zisheng to fall for her so thoroughly as she has. Zisheng, of course, being the person Ziduan cares about most in this world, as far as the narrative shows us—which brings us to the relationship I really am here to unpack.

Ziduan and Zisheng

Despite this relationship being such a big twist and so vital to the plot, it was astonishing to me that we never get a single scene of Ziduan and Zisheng just...interacting. Not one. They are always in a crowd or in a crisis, and while there is clearly a lot of love between them, and they clearly have moments just to themselves, the show never shows us a single one.

Oh, it hints at us.

The speed at which Zisheng was able to get to Shaoshang in the pagoda also has to take into account that he had to be able to communicate to Ziduan at some point, "I'll handle this, pretend I was never here".

The undertone of glee Ziduan is emitting in episode 38 during Zisheng's chastisement is probably coming from a place of getting to humble Shaoshang (who is at this point a thorn in his side that he has never really interacted with), but I also see his amusement as emoting for both himself and Zisheng. Gosh, I love imagining the verbal conversation that must have happened with the emperor, as well as the nonverbal conversation that must have happened between Ziduan and Zisheng before Shaoshang entered the throne room.

The way Ziduan went fully feral for Zisheng in episode 49 merits another mention, because it is pronounced. Here is a character who has spent most of the show being calm and collected and extremely image-conscious and careful with his words. Yet when he enters that throne room debating the crimes of Ling Buyi, his voice is so full of rage that it's hoarse. His accusation to Shaoshang from the scene before this, that she does not care enough because she is acting too calm, is very much him projecting, because he has fully lost his cool in the face of Zisheng's crisis. And not for a single moment does he care what the crimes are, or why Zisheng did them—he doesn't even have the bare-bone information that Shaoshang has worked out about Zisheng's true identity. All Ziduan wants is to save Zisheng. (This makes me think about the dialogue between him and Shaoshang at the Cheng house, too—because of course Shaoshang has the knowledge that she can probably get him exonerated. But Ziduan doesn't know what she does, so the fact that she leads by asking what is Ziduan's game plan here? And he doesn't have an answer. Chef's kiss moment for Shaoshang, honestly.)

In episode 51, when the Emperor is confronting Ziduan and Zisheng about their attempts to get Zikun deposed, there is a moment during Zisheng's explanation that he does not want to be Emperor when a series of close-ups cut to a wide shot, and we see Ziduan pulling his hand back from Zisheng. In fact, that whole scene is full of the love and trust between Ziduan and Zisheng, even though Zisheng never once so much as acknowledges Ziduan's presence. When Shaoshang enters the room, she seats herself a step behind Zisheng to his left, which approximately mirrors Ziduan's position on his right. I adore this position, which so clearly seems to illustrate the nature of the relationship between these three, and I lament that there are no shots showing all three of them in frame together. NONE. Not in the entire show.

When Zisheng returns from his 5 years in the north in episode 52, Ziduan is walking with him, side-by-side.

When Zisheng rushes to save Ziduan in episode 55, as soon as he recognizes the threat to Guo Village where Shaoshang is, Ziduan begins to demand that Zisheng leave him and go to her immediately, lest she feel abandoned again and never forgive him again. Note that it's not that Ziduan feels she cannot handle herself—it's purely their relationship he's worried about here (and arguably prioritizing over his own life).

The love between these two is profound and beautiful and despite the contention it causes with Shaoshang (and indeed even to some degree because of that) I wish they had shown us more of it.

Interpreting What We Got

So...I end up reading Ziduan as gay, and particularly in love with Zisheng. Sure, they grew up in the palace together, but they kept their distance from one another so as not to sow discord between the palaces. I can read them as platonic best friends, but I struggle to rad them as brothers. As far as I remember, the only time either of them refers to the other as a brother is when feral Ziduan is storming the court with Shaoshang in episode 49, and he appeals to everyone to remember that Zisheng was raised among them, like a brother.

Imagining them as exes, who had a thing in their teens and even after ending that have remained best friends, is also a lot of fun.

I don't read Ziduan as all that angsty or pining—I see him as a very practical character. His temperament is so alike Zisheng's that it's easy to interpret that even if he is in love with him, if he thinks that Shaoshang is what Zisheng wants and she will make him happy, he is not going to stand in their way.

I would love to see a future where Shaoshang and Ziduan get to know each other and just agree to share Zisheng. (I couldn't resist hinting at that in the one fic I have written about this.)

Regardless of how we read Ziduan's love for Zisheng, as I see it, as of the end of the show, Shaoshang still stands between Zisheng and Ziduan, but Ziduan no longer holds this against her. He understands that Zisheng needs her to be happy, and that for the rest of his life, he will be devoted to her. Maybe on some level Ziduan even feels he owes Shaoshang this too, given how he promised her before going to rescue Zisheng from the side of the cliff, that he would make sure Zisheng apologized to her—and never did.

The only thing preventing all three of them happily being friends (or a throuple, or two consenting couples whose hypotenuse between Shaoshang and Ziduan is a queer platonic relationship, which is my shipping preference) is Shaoshang's (very justified!) distrust/distaste for Ziduan. Which I think could be mitigated, given time and effort. I want to see it mitigated.

One thing that has struck me on these repeated rewatches is the way that Ziduan is so upfront about his affection for Zisheng as soon as he is able to do so openly. It makes me wonder how much he has counted on having Zisheng at his side when he eventually secured the Crown Prince position, and how much it must pain him that Zisheng sacrificed his position in the palace to secure him that spot. (Though of course he would be able to see as well as we can that it is also Zisheng's penance for everything, including wronging Shaoshang.)

Anyway, I love Wen Ziduan so much.

#love like the galaxy #meta #third prince #wen ziduan #ling buyi #huo buyi #spoilers #ziduan #星汉灿烂 #月升沧海 #文子端 #zisheng #did anybody else spend hours and hours dissecting third prince scenes #where are the fmvs #where are the gif sets #where are the fics #shipping #interpretation

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leia-lee-k · 1 year

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I’ve got a lot of thoughts about the state of minds of both the main leads in Love Like the Galaxy post the 5-years seperation. To avoid spoilers I’ve put them under the cut. ;)

HBY’s actions after the 5-year separation make a lot of sense to me based on his character in the drama (he is def different than the one in the novel). He is operating under 3 main issues.

He knows and understands CSS more now and doesn’t believe she will ever forgive him. Obviously, he wants to get back with her, has been since before he even left for those 5 years, but he also knows that it’s going to be nearly impossible for her to forgive him. He doesn’t expect it at all. You can see that when he tries to dismiss himself from CSS’s parents after the Empress’s death, but that scene also highlights the next issue, which is...

He is still pretty socially inept. It’s one of his flaws. While he does get better at it while dating CSS, it never really goes away. He has no idea what words to use or how to use them. This man doesn’t really have a filter, he usually says what he means and means what he says, but is smart enough to know when not to speak. His poetic, smooth flirts with CSS? Just him being honest and speaking from his heart. After the 5 years, when he doesn’t believe he can show his heart to her anymore, what can he say? He doesn’t believe he has the right to speak openly to her about his feelings. Mostly because...

He respects the hell out of CSS. One thing I love about HBY throughout the show is his respect for CSS. She tells him that she can’t trust him and give her heart to him anymore? Then he will bow out respectfully. He won’t pressure her. He may be devoted to her and will never love anyone else, but he won’t put his own feelings onto her. He did this when she was previously engaged so...

That’s why we don’t see him beg. We might want to see him beg after what he did, but that doesn’t seem to be his character in the drama. We want to see him fight hard for her, and be relentless like we know he can be, but he has had 5 years to think of everything he has done and he’s mellowed out a bit. And he treats his relationship with CSS like he treats his heart and his heart is pretty bruised after the 5 years, so he absolutely has to be careful with it. Thus he holds back, much to the dismay of the viewers, me included.

As for CSS? I’ve seen a lot of people upset at her ice queen act. I’ve watched LLTG about a billion times now and I think I understand why she seems that way. Namely? She is fighting depression and grief hard. She states that HBY is her true love and the show has kinda hammered it hard that CSS is the type to love deeply. She mirrors HBY to a ridiculous degree. Some of her main issues throughout the show have been:

Her abandonment issues.

Her low self-esteem/self-image.

Her anger issues.

Learning to love and learning to forgive (she learned to love pre the 5-years seperation).

Her anger issues have always been very subtle but there are signs here and there. “Venting her anger” has been quoted a few times in the show. It makes sense that she is angry and it ties heavily with her abandonment issues.

CSS states that she had to put down her anger issues during their seperation, so she no longer has that burning intensity that she used to have. It’s off-screen, which I think was a poor choice in storytelling but you can piece it together after a few re-watches (or if you’re really good at retaining info during your first watch). Like HBY, she has mellowed out or matured out of her anger, which means she doesn’t have that to fuel her. Her depression and sadness then take center stage. What about her other issues though?

When HBY abandons her or plans his murder/suicide while leaving her out of the loop, it rips open a wound that has never truly healed. Throughout the show, we can see that CSS is affection starved because of her parents leaving her with relatives that didn’t give a piss about her, or AKA abandoning her at her birth. It becomes an even larger wound when her mother comes home and gives her zero affection. And while CSS eventually gets the affection she needs from both the Empress and HBY, what she really needed was stability from someone showing her affection (which is why the Empress plays such an important role in CSS’s life). But that only comes with time. Her abandonment issues were something only time could heal (with continued assurances from someone CSS could rely on). In the show, she only had a year with her family before her wound was reopened.

5 years under the care and love of the Empress gave her that. She needed that time, to not only let go of her anger, or to rebuild her shattered self-image*, but to build up the assurance of stability. She also knew the Empress was sick, but it allowed her a semblance of a rock-solid foundation for a decent amount of time.

*(She was going to be HBY’s wife, he -and the Empress ofc- gave her confidence, but the feeling of being not good enough was going to resurface when HBY did what he did. It was good that she found it again when she made a career for herself as the Palace Chief.)

So what was left? She matured, but her heart was still “dead” as per her words. Someone who is sad and depressed isn’t going to be very lively, which is why she seems like an ice queen. She isn’t being mean or emotionless, she is just in a place of deep sadness where other emotions have a hard time coming forward. When you’re that sad, you do become a bit numb to everything else as well. So to heal from that sadness, she had to come forth and return to the waking world outside the palace. And she was forced to with the Empress’s death and HBY’s return.

For CSS to move forward she needed to learn to forgive. And the start of that was with her family, her parents, the first people to abandon her. Not with HBY. That’s why the “move on” scene was both heartbreaking and needed. She wasn’t ready to forgive him, the timing was off, but she needed to hear him apologize first. She needed the assurance that he would be okay because she would always think of him but couldn’t be with him. With that, when her mother apologizes, tells her that they’ll never leave her again, and asks to give them a second chance, she could accept it (and you start to see her old troublemaker self come back with her asking her father which of 3 gave him the worst headache lol). She then has a shaky but possible new foundation. Her grandmother then apologizes (she overhears so it’s not direct) and CSS realizes she needs to focus on the people that love her. That scene parallels the one at the beginning where she says she needs to be more solitary and think of herself.

Now she is ready to hear and forgive HBY. (It’s why she ends her engagement talks with YS.)

CSS is still stubborn ofc, so it takes a death scare, but his words of regret reach her and they get back together. That’s when you start to see her thaw. You start to see her being happy again. Unfortunately this is where the 10-episode cut/edit really hurt the show. We only get 1 and 1/4 of an episode to see her come back to herself. We see her defend the village, then tease and smile with HBY, but we don’t fully get to see our old CSS return within such a short time. We can infer, that yes, she will be her old self soon enough (and even better), but we don’t see it on screen. That’s why I think a follow-up movie is needed tbh.

But yes, it makes sense for her to seem so frigid after the 5 years because the focus was on her sadness/depression and her grief at being apart from her one true love. A lot of her other development happened within the time skip and left her with only a little bit more to go before she was fully developed. She needed that entire time to process a lot of things emotionally (and imo, something we needed to see on screen, the final episodes were poorly done sadly). Not so much for HBY, the poor boy, he probably pieced together his folly within a few months and the rest of the time he was just in a time-out for his bad behavior.

#love like the galaxy #lltg #月升沧��#xing han can lan

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