justanothersyscourse
Just Another Syscourse Blog
Attempting to dispel myths and misconceptions about DID/OSDD, and their relation (or lack thereof) to Endos and Tulpas
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I really hope it's okay that I reblog. If you want me to delete, just let me know.
Having been a mod on sn, a server that was CDD only, I want to talk about my experience and why it's... sadly, not that simple
Any system-oriented server that takes a stance on what causes CDDs is automatically a syscourse server
Immediately. Without question.
It becomes an unsafe place for anyone that disagrees, especially if it's a hard stance and a public rule.
And no matter how hard you try, members will eventually argue about that stance and the science. Even in a server unrelated to syscourse and systems entirely, it'll still come up.
(I tried to put a link here but I can't find it so I'm just going to try to write it again quickly
Say two systems join a server for gaming. Mods don't even know what DID is. System A has DID and system B is some flavour of pro/endogenic. One of these systems thinks CDDs are caused by trauma, the other doesn't, and we don't actually care which is which.
Eventually, both systems want to open up about how much fun this game is to play as a system and talk about the positive effect it's had. They're out and open. Maybe they cross paths right away, or, maybe, a singlet gets interested and asks, "wait, like multiple personalities?"
Both systems answer readily. "It's called DID now."
The singlet asks another question. The dreaded question. "What's that?"
And the server is very likely about to become unsafe for one of those two systems, and the mods are going to have to take a stance. It's now a syscourse server.)
But that's if any pro/endo systems join at all, because in your hypothetical, the server doesn't think they exist, so why would they join? Even a desire for community might not be enough to get them in there.
And that's because anyone who thinks CDDs can't be caused by anything other than trauma is automatically sysmed, and what pro/endo wants to join a server full of those?
...
Unless it's to actually argue and try to change people's minds.
But this isn't a syscourse server, it's a server for healing and recovery. We're all so tired of fighting and educating, we just want... peace and quiet.
And to make it worse, all those systems that went to join and disagreed have already told the other servers they're in to watch out, but they didn't give much of a reason beyond, "sysmeds" and argumentative and dangerous for endogenic systems.
So you eventually just say fuck it and decide yeah, the server kind of needs to be anti endo so that these traumatized people can heal without arguing about this VERY BASIC FACT when it inevitably comes up.
Because it will.
Eventually you decide that the safety of 300 traumatized CDD systems is more important than the one endogenic CDD system that still needs to learn a few things.
Your server is for recovery, not teaching.
literally can't fucking stand anti-endos. no i also don't find anything in common with plurals who don't have cdds, but actually i don't really care what someone thinks their origin is if they have did/osdd
YES it is misinformation that it can form without trauma. YES misinformation is harmful! dyou wanna know who it harms? THE PEOPLE WHO THINK THEY HAVE CDDS WITHOUT TRAUMA
but the thing is, its just so fucking cruel to act like someone's existence and how they talk about it is an attack on the CDD community. i actually think that its far more fucking harmful for you to drive out CDD systems for self iding as endo than for them to self id as endo
'but if theyre endo they dont have a cdd' WRONG. you are focused on the WRONG THING. most people who are endogenic cdd systems ive seen are fully fucking diagnosed
endo cdd systems do exist because they fucking do. because there's cdd systems out there who call themselves endogenic. and thats their business!
the facts that these people are worthy of respect and community with fellow cdd systems and that you cant have a cdd without trauma coexist.
i think it'd be a lot better for everyone if instead, say, having a 'traumagenics only' (as in, cdd systems who id as traumageic, bc traumagenic doesnt actually mean cdd) discord server, youd have a discord server that is for pwCDDs and it is openly stated that the opinion of the server is that cdds are inherently traumagenic. rules that saying otherwise is misinformation and discussion of that is not allowed there.
it wouldnt actually change much of anything other than itd fucking help the people who are harmed by the misinfo that cdds can happen without trauma. bc guess what? all youre doing is driving them into the spaces with the misinformation. YOU are making the problem worse
if an endo cdd system sees that and goes 'i dont think i have trauma, but i do have a cdd and want community with others with the same disorder' then THEY SHOULD BE ALLOWED IT.
BECAUSE GUESS WHAT
THEIR FUCKING DISORDER DOESNT GO ANYWHERE IF THEY CALL THEMSELVES ENDO
I COULD WAKE UP TOMORROW AND GO 'ACTUALLY I DONT THINK I HAVE TRAUMA' OR EVEN 'I THINK MY PLURALITY PREDATES MY DID SO THEREFORE IM AN ENDO SYSTEM' AND IT WOULDNT CHANGE SHIT ABOUT MY FUCKING DID
you're just creating the worst most hostile community where either people need to be fortunate enough to be educated on the topic already OR they are exiled from all cdd specific spaces ever
JUST FUCKIGN
I HATE HOW YOU MFS TALK ABOUT SYSCOURSE
I JUST WANT TO INTERACT WITH THE CDD COMMUNITY. BECAUSE I HAVE THAT. I DONT RELATE TO THE WIDER PLURAL COMMUNITY. BUT ISTG THERES NO FUCKING CDD SPECIFIC SPACES WITHOUT IT BEING A SYSCOURSE THING. FOR PEOPLE WHO HATE THE IDEA OF ASSOCIATING ENDOS WITH CDDS YOU SURE DO BUILD YOUR ENTIRE COMMUNITY BUILT AROUND CONVERSATIONS RELATED TO THEM
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You know, I'd be more bothered about accusations against me if they were based in any kind of reality, and weren't based on bad faith readings and anger alone. The fact that there are several people that have had the exact same accusations slung at them by the same person for trying to discuss the person's problematic behaviour is telling enough.
According to the information on that person's blog, I am a RAMCOA survivor, and I am not ready to face that.
I have already dealt with my trauma around those events, I was healing, I was happy with the care I had received and the progress I had made. I do not currently have an active therapist.
And that's what the entire conversation was about.
Consent to seeing and hearing about those topics when you're ready, and the ability to step into those kind of spaces on your own terms, not with it forced on you and being caught by surprise. Many don't have access to memories, or don't understand what they've been through (hi, apparently, I'm now in a constant state of denial, repression, panic, and desire to reach out to people that I really shouldn't reach out to), and because of the sensitivity around the topics and the dangers of being triggered, I support RAMCOA discussions having dedicated spaces.
God forbid, I know, I'm terrible, but trust me, I'm lucky I had people with me when I found that post and lost my actual mind when my entire perception of my life was turned upside down.
I don't want to see other people unexpectedly and suddenly fall apart like that by pure accident, especially when they're not equipped to handle it or have a therapist to contact.
The fact that they can't see the problems in their own behaviour is sad.
But that's not my fault or problem.
Believe whatever you want, the posts I've written about my experiences and thoughts are right there.
Hopefully my followers will read them, even if that person isn't able to.
Stay safe, everyone.
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I sure do hope the few pro-endos who bought into the anti-endo narrative around around tulpamancy are watching these same people use the same exact tactics to smear the endogenic community with their made-up Freudian link.
It feels like almost every anti-endo and so-called neutral blog that was pushing anti-tulpa talking points a few months ago have moved on to smearing the term "endogenic" instead.
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Racists be like:
I sure do hope the few pro-endos who bought into the anti-endo narrative around around tulpamancy are watching these same people use the same exact tactics to smear the endogenic community with their made-up Freudian link.
It feels like almost every anti-endo and so-called neutral blog that was pushing anti-tulpa talking points a few months ago have moved on to smearing the term "endogenic" instead.
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The historical use of endo- in psychiatry and trauma & dissociation research
All sources in one spot, from start to finish
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This post isn’t for an argument — I just want to clarify some things for those who actually are willing to listen about my “fabricated hurt” over the term endogenic. Brief bullet points because genuinely, why was this argument even brought up again?
People can absolutely use the term endogenic to describe their systems. It’s so blatantly obvious that the term has taken on a new meaning. That’s okay.
The term endogenic is and has been used repeatedly to fakeclaim the existence of the disorder DID, the trauma that causes DID, and the individuals who have DID. This is not just a tumblr issue — it’s in the literature.
In the past, the term has been used in different forms (endogenous, for instance), same with DID (psychosis, for instance) for the same purpose as the previous bullet point.
30 minutes spent on researching a term that’s exploded into this much popularity isn’t “lovingly” creating something. I’ve spent longer researching Disney Goddamn Fastpass.
Nobody is faulting anyone, at all, for using the term endogenic, and not knowing the connotations it holds in the incredibly psych focused field of DID.
I am absolutely not upset at people for using the term endogenic.
I am upset about… let’s see… being told I’m faking the frustration and hurt I’ve experienced over being fakeclaimed through medical literature and in system spaces via the use of the term endogenic… being told I’m fabricating the history of the term or moving goalposts by acknowledging that terms change over time… all of my words being twisted to paint me like an anti-endo who hates the term endogenic… being harassed about the argument because I dared to say how upset it made me… and more!!
I don’t think anyone demanded an apology. That’s fucking ridiculous. I think my words were along the lines of “an apology would’ve been nice, but instead, they just doubled down and told me I was faking my hurt over the term.” I would like an apology over the fact that the term was unintentionally controversial and fakeclaimy. Not even really an apology! Just. Acknowledgement!!! That was all.
Thank you to my friends who acknowledged the origins and said “yeah, that’s shitty. Damn.” That’s. What I was looking for. Just. Validation of my hurt.
Anyways. Moving on to more interesting topics.
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And I also showed you sources where they're used interchangeably, BECAUSE THEY ARE
My bad for not making this clearer...
Did you have sources for "endogenic," (not endogenous) being used BEFORE 2015?
Meant IN RELATION TO SYSTEMS.
Yes, endogenic psychoses exists. That's not what we're talking about.
I should have known better. How many times have I fallen into this same trap before?
Fool me once...
I should know I need to be super specific in this conversation lest I get drowned in images that have no relation to the topic of systemhood because "see, endogenic was a word! Checkmate, atheist."
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And
Coming back to add
I HAVE ALREADY GIVEN YOU PAPERS WITH MPD AND ENDOGENIC FROM BEFORE 2015
From 1989, for example
My bad for not making this clearer...
Did you have sources for "endogenic," (not endogenous) being used BEFORE 2015?
Meant IN RELATION TO SYSTEMS.
Yes, endogenic psychoses exists. That's not what we're talking about.
I should have known better. How many times have I fallen into this same trap before?
Fool me once...
I should know I need to be super specific in this conversation lest I get drowned in images that have no relation to the topic of systemhood because "see, endogenic was a word! Checkmate, atheist."
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OMG
What the fuck do you think it was called before MPD
Hysterical and psychotic neuroses, which I linked
And a paper on general application in trauma disorders
Remember when I just said this??
"It was used to refer to the fantasy model for trauma based disorders"
Yes, it was used to refer to both MPD in its earliest understandings and other disorders before the DSM II even existed
I have explained this to you, you have to include those search terms
Holy shit, can you keep a single thing straight for one conversation, please
My bad for not making this clearer...
Did you have sources for "endogenic," (not endogenous) being used BEFORE 2015?
Meant IN RELATION TO SYSTEMS.
Yes, endogenic psychoses exists. That's not what we're talking about.
I should have known better. How many times have I fallen into this same trap before?
Fool me once...
I should know I need to be super specific in this conversation lest I get drowned in images that have no relation to the topic of systemhood because "see, endogenic was a word! Checkmate, atheist."
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Hi! I was wondering if you'd be willing to take and share this Survey about Syscourse with whoever sees your posts?
It encompasses the entire plural community and it's questions are from the syscourse code Carrd. Which is linked in the form directly. The survey's goal is to get the majority of the community to take the survey to see the widespread opinions and see how that compares platform to platform.
It prioritizes anonymity and you have to decide to let go of your anonymity. And those questions are basically asking for a preferred name, body age, and where you found the survey.
Here's the link!:
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdT23Om31GNWsoy23oR0NIcYYgfZGDajPMP9plUqc56TOsHIw/viewform
Taken! We hope others take it too ❤️
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"Consistent with DSM-IV and DSM-5 descriptions of dissociative flashbacks episodes . . . and new empirical findings that PTSD, DID, and DDNOS are related syndromes . . . we contend that the re-enactment of traumatic memories is a dissociative phenomenon, and that PTSD constitutes a dissociative disorder of a lesser degree."
Ellert Nijenhuis on PTSD being a dissociative disorder, from The Trinity of Trauma: Ignorance, Fragility, and Control (Volume II) (p.377)
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"Even though certain events are more likely to be traumatizing, there is considerable variation in how individuals react to these events; if someone successfully deals with an event that others might see as extremely stressful, that event cannot be viewed as traumatizing for that person (Nijenhuis, 2015). Accordingly, one can conceptualize trauma as an individual’s ‘breaking‐point’ when faced with events that are, for him or her, personally overwhelming."
Moskowitz et al. on the definition of trauma, from "Defining Psychosis, Trauma, and Dissociation" in Psychosis, Dissociation, and Trauma: Evolving Perspectives on Severe Psychopathology (pp.17-18)
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since I started enjoying the little things, I see beauty everywhere I go
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hi sorry if this is outside your area of expertise but in non-DID/OSDD dissociative amnesia does headaches or other pain occur?
Absolutely.
Childhood trauma and dissociation in tertiary care patients with migraine and tension type headache: A controlled study - ScienceDirect
Pain-determined Dissociation Episodes | Pain Medicine | Oxford Academic (oup.com)
Trauma (instituteforchronicpain.org)
More sources:
Myofascial Pain Syndrome - Healing and Mind-Body Resources (healingfromchronicpain.com)
It’s a pain: the physical impact of trauma | Carolyn Spring
Irritable bowel syndrome and trauma (carolynspring.com)
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you might have disappointed some people.
but this does not mean you are a disappointment.
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