bonefall
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I don't have much to add to the Maplecourse aside from the fact that if I was mapleshade I would've done the exact same things. Unfortunately including not killing Oakstar cause let's be real killing a man, who you'd have to kill multiple times because he has Cat God Powers, and who would most likely have at least a few other cats with him the majority of the time to defend him, is not easy.
I think it would have been cool if Frecklewish actually got rolled up in a trap set for Oakstar tbh. Like, Mapleshade knows he'll probably have to die multiple times so she sets up a Snake Encounter, but Frecklewish finds Mapleshade first and their skirmish causes the trap to go off on the wrong target.
(Maybe even lampshade the fact a random adder in England is green by making her interpret it as a sign. It is revenge-colored.)
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one of the most frustrating things to me with the mapleshade/birchfall situation is its like. the only time since into the wild where the books acknowledge queens don't have to reveal the fathers of their litters. when mapleshade tells beetail (? the deputy whats-his-face) shell be raising the kittens alone, he accepts it without question. this implies her lying about birchface being the father was unnecessary, but in Bluestar’s prophecy everybody immediately assumes thrushpelt is the father the minute bluefur is known to be pregnant, and bluefur not correcting this is treated as a reasonable decision despite it being the SAME situation! it's just the authors want mapleshade to be unreasonable so this time it's bad actually.
The in-universe Queen's Rights are so poorly defined and utilized that the BB!Queen's Rights are essentially an entirely original framework. They sometimes exist in the books and sometimes don't, depending on if the writer remembers them or not.
They actually seem to not be a thing in Bluestar's Prophecy, from what I remember. Thrushpelt offers to be the pretend-father as a result.
It seems to have protected Fallowtail though, until Reedfeather decided to kidnap his kids.
Featherstorm's first litter, Raggedpelt and Scorchwind, are bullied for being fatherless and face constant speculation.
Same with Flintfang, Blackstar, and Fernshade. They're not even actually halfclan, Blackpaw holds his tongue and refuses to reveal the truth to stop bullies.
Brokenstar faces open bullying from his adopted siblings for not knowing who his mother is (but also he stops Yellowfang from telling Lizardstripe about it because he overheard a conversation where she told her friend she feels like the baby is stealing milk)
StarClan pushed for Squilf to lie to Brambleclaw for this reason, because they assumed (correctly) that having HalfClan suspicion would make it harder for The Three to be accepted into ThunderClan
So if a queen has "a right" to not reveal parents, it's not very protective. Your kids are going to face bullying and discrimination regardless of how loyal you actually are, or who the dad is.
But yeah suuuure Mapleshade was evil and horrible for not correcting Frecklewish. I can totally accept that in this completely arbitrary situation that somehow it would have turned out better if she told her No and left the whole Clan speculating.
#Jayfeather (handshake) Mizu (I am mixed race and everyone considers this a federal fucking issue)#Toxic yuri AU where at first Mapleshade just let the lie live to protect her kids but then legitimately began falling in love with Freckle#And started to believe that maybe Frecklewish would understand more than anyone why the war should end#And maybe all of her lovers can love each other as well someday#Only for it to come crashing down when the secret is revealed#Mapleshade Discourse O'Clock
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i find mapleshade discourse really infuriating because I swear I see a lot of people who generally agree that the half clan rule sucks but for some reason when it comes to mapleshade specifically they say she was horrible and delusional for believing she “wouldn’t be punished when she committed a crime”. when it’s like… I don’t think it’s wrong for her to hope that she and her babies would be safe??
anyway I will say your take on the mapleshade thing is refreshing to see. it feels like some people got so frustrated by people acting like mapleshade did nothing wrong ever that they swung the complete other direction even when it contradicts their viewpoints on the broader societal issues with the clans (like suddenly supporting half clan discrimination and harsh punishment towards code breakers)…
You could convince people to support Hammurabi's Code if you told them it would only apply to people they find annoying.
I simply feel that if Clan culture is so pernicious that an unaccountable dictator can throw mixed blood babies out into the rain because he's furious when he finds out they're not his grandkids, and then her illegal mate is given a teeny slap on the wrist while she's not even allowed to bury her children and forced to live in the woods alone, Mapleshade should be given a gun. As a treat.
#Nettlepaw finds her alone and instead of giving her herbs gives her a glock#Mapleshade#Mapleshade Discourse O'Clock#Fennelposting
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tbh it makes no sense that mapleshade would ally with tigerstar considering the way he canonically wanted to murder stormpaw and featherpaw for being halfclan kits…you’d think she’d want to beat his ass for pulling that shit
Honestly I feel like Mapleshade's motivations as they follow through the books always feel wonky. She doesn't feel like a character with a consistent narrative, her personality and actions seem to wobble all over the place.
Unfortunately the most consistent trait about her, across multiple books, is that she is a Girl Villain. She makes a lot of comments about her looks, motherly pain, and romance. Her strengths are also not established, she's an active general-type in OotS, a bloodline curse in Crookedstar's Promise, a satan-like bad influence in Tigerclaw's Fury, and a minion desiring a young molly's pretty body in TBC.
I like the Mapleshade's Vengeance story and characterization of her above all the others, but I do feel like it's not super consistent with ANY of her alliances going forward in the timeline.
Her pain is that she lost her children, so it feels kind of odd she's tormenting Crookedkit. I can accept it as part of her grudge against Appledusk, though.
After all, the idea she's a vengeful spirit haunting his bloodline is super fun as a gimmick. Like she's blinded to the morality of it all at this point, dogged in her goals.
But still, it seems downright unfitting she'd be whispering into Tigerclaw's ear as a demon if that's the case. You'd think she would only start to get close when she realizes Tiger can be used to torment an Applekin (which storm and feather are through their mother's side) directly, not playing the long game.
Plus, mixed blood was the reason her kittens died. With the backstory they gave her, you'd think it would set her off more. Even if they are Applekin.
But a lot of the time they don't seem to know what to do with her. Like when she attacked Sandstorm, of all people, for having a husband. Felt absolutely random.
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I've never understood why people wholly blame Maple for making the clan think her kits were Birchface's. I mean, I'll admit it's been AGES since I read MV (or any actual WC book lmao) but I swear she did nothing to start it? Frecklewish just Assumed they were Birchface's for whatever reason and Mapleshade just didn't confirm or deny. A lie by omission, if still a big one. But people act like its some vile, actively manupulative lie from Maple alone??? like yeah its manipulative but A. who cares let her girlboss and B. it entirely started with Frecklewish assuming??? it wasn't even Mapleshade's idea in the first place???????
You're correct; it was a lie of omission, completely suggested by Frecklewish. Mapleshade didn't fabricate this lie.
In fact, something often left out of discussions about Mapleshade's Vengeance is that it decided she was VERY pious. In the early half of MV, she believes that it's StarClan that's providing all these opportunities for her.
She thinks she's special, that her kittens are destined to bring peace to their two halves, and that the code applies more loosely to her because she so strongly believes she's right and that her love is beautiful. I think it's meant to come across as Mapleshade being "delusional" and disconnected with reality, but I can't help but feel like a fair amount of it is naivety.
Mapleshade is quiet, and Frecklewish rolls into a long, earnest monologue, thanking her for giving her hope with her brother's kittens. It reads to me like Frecki was in a depression after Birchface's death, and being able to help raise her nespring is like being given a new purpose in life.
It's gutwrenching on both ends, for me. Mapleshade is actually super uncomfortable several times around her "in-laws" during these lies, like she knows that she's in a dangerous position, and never really wanted them around to begin with. She clearly doesn't like Frecklewish very much and is actively intimidated by Oakstar. She doesn't WANT to have to lie forever, she eventually wants it to be known they're halfclan.
(and... why shouldn't she want that? This law SUCKS and it SHOULD be challenged. I'll go to bat for Silverstream and I'll go to bat for Mapleshade too.)
But meanwhile, Frecklewish in particular is being mislead. This means everything to her, it gave her a purpose when her brother had been taken from her, she thinks Birchface is living on and that Mapleshade shares in her grief. But it's a lie, Mapleshade doesn't want her anywhere near her children, and at the end of the day her love of these kittens is being exploited for their safety.
So... yes. It is manipulative, but the alternative was to actively tell Frecklewish NO and open up more questions about who the possible father was. Mapleshade is in a dangerous situation and she interpreted the opportunity as StarClan providing a way for her kittens to become accepted by their Clanmates.
I just find this situation is compelling. And they're both neat
#There is an alternate universe out there where Maple picked the Other Option between two choices#and her kittens were in even more distress or danger#and people are pissed off at her for not going with the option from OUR universe.#warrior cats analysis#mapleshade#mapleshade's vengeance
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Wait, Bonefall, I’m with you on every other cat on your selfish and entitled list, but what did Cloudtail do? I could be wrong, but I have a hard time believing that you would put him on this list due to his eating human food as a teenager without knowing why it was wrong. If that is the reason, can you please elaborate? If there’s another reason, can you also please elaborate?
LMAO I was just trying to point out that people do not bay for the exile of the male characters who act a little selfish and entitled the same way they do for the female characters. I don't hate all of the characters on that list, just most of them.
(and even then, VERY much because the hypocrisy bugs me. I'd like them if it was intentional and treated like a flaw.)
To be absolutely clear though, Cloudpaw was correct to be a little snot. When Fireheart started screaming at him to stop eating Friskies and Cloudpaw went back every time, that was based. Asking Ashpaw to cover for him when he was sneaking out was funny. When the guy got kidnapped and found his way home and immediately said, "God's not real I LOVE atheism" I stood up in my chair and clapped. Clan culture SUCKS and he's absolutely right to be challenging it.
You see, Cloudtail, notorious wifeguy, put himself on that list because he respects women. He said, "It's fucked up that I'm appreciated for the same shit they get flack for." King.
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i would simply not exile a mother and her kids normseperate a mother from her children. what im saying is oakstar had a skill issue.
You see if I was Oakstar and I found out that the grandchildren I was present for the birth of and had helped raise from their first moments alive were not biologically descended from me I would still say they are mine. Because they fucking are.
"ohhh they spring forth from the blood of my enemy" uhh, yeah?? The grand irony it's his blood they'll grow to spill??? Do you not see the savage poetry in raising Appledusk's so-called children to eventually kill him??? Absolutely no vision. Pizzazzless behavior.
I'd be such a good WC villain. Ez.
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"They deserved to be thrown out into the wilderness because they acted selfish and entitled!!" OK throw out Crowfeather. And Brambleclaw. And Cloudtail. And Graystripe. And Bumblestripe. And Nightheart. And Jagged Peak. And Gray Wing. And-
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Mapleshade Discourse O'Clock
It's that time again!!! SO I just kinda want to jot down all of my various thoughts about it as a story and just generally weigh in about Mapleshade.
I like the idea of Mapleshade more than the actual Mapleshade that is used throughout the books.
She has a really good gimmick-- to haunt Applekin though the generations. I don't like how they turn her into a generic "cat satan" for Tigerclaw's Fury and keep making her appear as a vain lackey demon.
I like her characterization in Mapleshade's Vengeance the most, of all her appearances.
But, I don't think my reading of the character depicted in MV is what the author intended.
See, I like MV as a story with no hero. The only blameless characters are the kittens who drowned and Perchpaw, while everyone else is some flavor of selfish, cruel, or vengeful. Everyone thinks they're in the right, but no one truly wins in the end.
Nothing about it was noble. Every tragedy that happened was utterly avoidable. In the end, everyone bears some responsibility for the pain and suffering that happened the day those children drowned.
BUT I'm pretty certain that the intended reading was that Mapleshade would be the one clearly in the wrong the whole time, as she justifies her own actions like a villain does.
Especially knowing how poorly the writers thought of similar female characters like Squilf and Leafp lying about the three, or Nightcloud being jealous her crummy husband is acting strange around another woman.
I feel justified in assuming that when Mapleshade is not happy she's being cheated on, or when she refuses to correct Frecklewish's record knowing it's unsafe if her kits are revealed as half clan, the writer really does think you're not supposed to take her side.
Because women should just not have emotions about being cheated on or something, and lying is unspeakably bad even if the truth puts you and your children in danger.
But. Y'know. We can all use the braincell for a moment and see that this is fucking stupid
SO when the book goes on to have Mapleshade ignore all the warnings about the swollen river, show both ThunderClan and RiverClan being obscenely cruel to her, and then walk across that bridge while insisting in her head that the deaths weren't her fault, I think the implication is obvious AND SHITTY.
Ergo I reject it completely. I can see what the book wants to say, and I think it says something trashy.
In spite of how badly the writer wants it to be Mapleshade's fault the kittens died, I say it was the asshole who threw a bunch of kittens out into the rain for being mixed race, actually.
Oakstar had the power here. Ravenwing had some power as well, but he makes it clear it wasn't his suggestion to throw the babies out into the woods.
And when it comes to Bridge Discourse, it was at least the afternoon, raining heavily, and Mapleshade was trying to get to RiverClan Camp. A straight shot across the stepping stones.
I think it is ridiculous to imagine an extremely emotional parent managing three very scared children, attempting to get out of the rain and dangerous wilderness before nightfall, would be rational enough to realize a large detour would be safer.
MAYBE the distance from ThunderClan Camp to the Bridge is equal to the distance to the Stones. But the distance between the bridge and RIVERCLAN Camp is longer.
I hope this goes without saying; but Frecklewish didn't deserve the Dark Forest.
Even in Banana World logic where she was sitting on the bank watching those kids doggy-paddle. Do not fucking jump in to save drowning people if you are not trained to do that.
I'm dead serious, this is the first thing you learn in any kind of water safety course. They WILL panic, you WILL get dragged down, you WILL become another liability someone else has to save instead of helping your initial target.
And that isn't even mentioning this being a flooded river. That's POOL safety.
In spite of how I think Mapleshade was right to lie, I do think Frecklewish being that upset and angry was understandable.
You're entitled to your feelings, but not how you treat people. She still attacked Mapleshade and called the kittens a slur.
That's what makes her interesting, though.
I don't think she deserves the Dark Forest, but Frecklewish's anger is an interesting trait. I don't like how a lot of defensive interpretations of her character end up downplaying how she acted at the exile
why does a woman being rightfully angry suddenly strike people as "unsympathetic." Girls can also say things in fury they don't fully mean. OR girls can rationalize their unjustified, ballistic response post-hoc out of pride.
Idk let girls be mad. Admit they were wrong without deserving HELL. I don't like the woobification impulse.
It's not really a hot take anymore I think, but Frecklewish is definitely only in the DF because the writing team judges women characters more harshly. Oakstar threw babies out in the rain in fury, and Ravenwing didn't stop it. But somehow only Frecklewish, a normal warrior, gets DF'd.
But what really rattles around in my head about the whole story is the way that the in-universe culture is able to suddenly value ethics like peace, forgiveness, and tolerance when MAPLESHADE is ready to throw those things out, but BEFORE then, it's well established that Clan culture is violent, vengeful, and intolerant.
One of our earliest scenes is Rainfall snarling at Mapleshade that he loves the way Birchface and Flowerpaw drowned. He's threatening that he'll kill even more ThunderClan warriors.
Over in ThunderClan, everyone is itching for revenge against Appledusk for those deaths, even though it seems to have been an accident. Oakstar even hates RiverClan well into sequel books for this.
But then later on, everyone acts Shocked Pikachu that Mapleshade actually went and GOT revenge.
And like, let's be real. This is a battle culture. Yes, by OUR standards Revenge Is Bad.
But in these books, so full of war and clan conflict...?
What I'm saying is that I wish the books let Mapleshade be a little more "controversial" in-universe. Like some cats actually frame the story very differently, and you can learn a lot about a person by who they think the hero is.
And how RiverClan responds to the drowned kids bugs me a lot tbh
We just established over in ThunderClan that there are people who think the babies were born filthy for being HalfClan.
We know everyone there stood by and watched as Oakstar threw them out into the rain-- only Ravenwing even seemed uncomfortable.
AND we know very well that in a few generations, TigerClan will rise. Which openly executed a HalfClan cat and wanted to kill 2 apprentices.
We KNOW the bigotry in Clan culture is deadly and unfair.
But then they go over to RiverClan and Darkstar is sad these three kids are dead? And RC is furious with Mapleshade for that?
Again, YES, you and me with OUR morals know that this bigotry is insane and spiteful. What I'm getting at is that IN-UNIVERSE half clan kittens and their parents face extreme discrimination. Even within this book.
It's odd to me that Darkstar refuses to let Mapleshade bury their bodies, sends her away for the death of the kids while saying it's "not the season for losing warriors" to Appledusk, and it's meant to come across as delusional that Maple thinks her babies were buried dishonorably
I wish more women in WC got so pissed off at the absolute injustice of it all that they went on a girl rampage. Perhaps it's my own taste, but I like it a lot more when the villain isn't entirely wrong and there's several angles you can read the story from. If she didn't do what she did, she would have been the only one who saw any consequences for anything that happened.
Anyway in conclusion uhhh idk murder is wrong. But Mapleshade's allowed to do it because she's a silly billy. Her greatest crime was not killing Oakstar also
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Soo there's a possibility my brain just made this up,(been a while since I read dotc anyways) but, I feel like I remember a whole thing with Clearsky where one of his cats, I don't remember the name, ends up with an awful festering wound and Clearsky pointedly does nothing about it and even like exiles that guy? Just in case you needed more fuel for the very deserved Clearsky hate pile. If I did completely mind fabricate it sorry-- I remember it really standing out as just cruel and awful as a younger person reading the book
Yeah that's Frost, this is in Book 2: Thunder Rising. Clear Sky also shoves his son's face in that reeking, festering wound and tells him to lick it if he cares so much.
But it's actually worse than just that lmao.
Frost is notably loyal in Thunder Rising, even shouting out how amazing Clear Sky is when he weeps his crocodile tears in front of a crowd early on. Everything that follows is his reward for that support.
Clear Sky beats Bumble to death and one part of his incredibly obvious lie is that he left her a second time, after she had been mauled by a fox AFTER he lightly tapped her and she passed out, to go get "help." But Frost has gone completely untreated for weeks because proto-SkyClan doesn't have a medic. So there's no way he could have gone to get help.
The Infected Wound Face Shoving Scene is actually part of Clear Sky playing an abuse game with his son because he's pissed off that Thunder questioned him.
He's in an especially bad mood because he'd just beaten Bumble to death and only Gray Wing believed his bafflingly stupid lie, and this is 3 days after he slaughtered Misty for her land and tried to kill her children too. Thunder set him off by saying "dad can we kill less natives maybe?"
Frost is also publicly humiliated before the exile, Clear Sky commands him to flash his weeping wound at a crowd as he bellows out a speech about filth, weakness, and spreading disease.
He DIRECTLY commands Thunder to be the one to "LEAVE HIM WHERE THE MAGGOTS WILL FIND HIM" (verbatim quote) because. Again. It's an abusive game. He wants to feel like he's in control of his son.
Frost's life was just a piece in a game for Clear Sky. A pawn, discarded when no longer useful.
And then Frost dies in that big battle Clear Sky causes and started, and is buried in a mass grave along with all the other victims. Probably because if more of Clear Sky's victims survived, they would have to lobotomize MORE characters for his exoneration arc. Absolutely fucking miserable story.
#It's hard to remember Clear Sky too harshly because he is actually just that bad#There are too many horrible details in every single moment to fit into one memory#Like for example I just realized the other day that he jumped down from a tree during Bumb's death#AFTER I'd written that whole big post...#Like. There's so many vile things happening I didn't even factor in that apparently he had time to leave and come back 3 times#AND ALSO jump up into a tree so he could stare down at the patrol#Frost wc#Dotc hate#Infection#Cw gore#Gore#Tw gore#Cw Infection
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Windstar's kits in BB are Dust Muzzle and Morning Whisker. With the former being renamed Dustiest Muzzle to fit naming conventions. But whats Morning Whisker's new name? Esp since you said that they will probably be the leader after Windstar passes and theres already Morningstar of ThunderClan (my beloved).
TO RECAP FOR THOSE COMING IN;
There's three groups in BB!DOTC now; Park Cats, Mountain Cats, and Forest Cats. Forest cats are the oldest cultural group and have lived around the White Hart for decades. Park cats arrived a few generations ago following their king away from the destruction of their home down south. Mountain cats recently followed Gray Wing the Wise down from the north at the beck of prophecy.
Forest cats are given a simple, natural name, and then their talent earns them a suffix from a small pool of traditional meanings. Bee, a strong fighter, might earn -sting, -slash, or -stone.
Mountain cats inherit the last names of their parents, and are usually given first names that work with them. Tempest Sky and Quiet Wing's children are Gray Wing and Clear Sky. Quiet Wing then had another litter with Stone Peak, and they were named Fluttering Wing and Jagged Peak.
Park cats are born nameless. They're given simple descriptions about their physical traits, traditionally until they're given a mentor. They spend their adolescence as (Mentor)'s Paw, until they make an achievement that is worthy of their leader giving them a title of three words or less.
Normally the leader is the King, but the Wind Coalition broke off from the River Kingdom many years ago. The Wind Runner sees herself as being much better than a King, HER kingdom is self-made, battle-tested, unprotected by the powerful river or the secretive forest.
Moth Flight isn't her child anymore, but I do know I want The Wind Runner to keep three total. At birth, the kittens were "named" Littlest One, Middle One, and Biggest One.
(It's tradition that the first real name of a Park cat is their apprentice name, but Windy is BURSTING with hubrice and LOVES breaking traditions. So it's possible the three of them did something different.)
SO currently I'm thinking their new names are;
Emberkit: Littlest One -> Embers Under Rain
Morning Whisker: Middle One -> Prayers at Dawn
Dustiest Muzzle: Biggest One -> Dustiest Muzzle
Embers might still die rather young, but at the very least she gets to apprenticeship. I'm not entirely sure on what I'm doing with her yet. If her name is a title, she managed to light a fire during a rainstorm (probably using flint)
Dustiest Muzzle gets his title from being an early tunneler and both bold and curious enough to stick his nose in every burrow. It actually reads as kind of unearned though, you could put it in English as "works harder than everyone else" which he probably just got because he's the son of The Wind Runner.
(Not that he isn't hardworking, just that Windstar doesn't even pretend she isn't biased.)
And Prayers at Dawn is interesting, because praying to future Clan cats looks like tilting your head upwards, and feeling the wind stir your whiskers. In Ancient Parkmew, her name meant something more like "Rousing Whiskers at Sunrise." I like the idea that she's quite religious for some reason, possibly also a friend of Moth Flight when it comes time.
The Parkmew word for "whiskering" eventually becomes the Clanmew word for the physical position of making prayers.
So Prayerstar would be a perfectly good name to avoid the conflict of Morningstar down the line later, BUT I'm also tempted to make the name MOURNINGstar and maybe have her take Mourning Whiskers as a title during her life.
Maybe even as a self-given title of great sorrow. I could have her become very close to Moth Flight and make her heart break when Moth and her children agree to split themselves up across the five Clans in Moth Flight's Vow.
Hmmm... perhaps Windstar's last life withered away pretty slowly, and Mourning Whisker knew she was going to inherit the Wind Coalition on the brink of war with SkyClan already attacking. Moth and her kits knew that WindCo would defend them all with their lives, and that's exactly why they knew they couldn't stay.
#better bones au#BB!DOTC#Moth Flight's Vow#I need to make a new fragments thing for BB!MFV since a lot more stuff is in it now#But overall BB!DOTC is the part of bb I need to organize the most#And I have Bad At Organizing disorder
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I just read your response about how the Erin's didn't realise the colonialism themes of DOTC and now I'm wondering if it's because they're British - a big fucking colonialist country
I am also British and I have seen first hand how watered down the empire's negative consequences are in schools. I still remember being told, "the only ones that weren't having a great time were the slaves." when in reality no-one but the British was having a good time
It's unthinkable that the fact they are White British Authors of a Certain Age didn't contribute to it. Like... that's just how culture works, even if it somehow wasn't at all related to their formal education. It influences how you think.
(Also as an aside, even most of The British didn't like the whole empire thing. 3/4ths of Britain isn't England. 2024 is still young, come on guys, be hilarious)
I can't ENTIRELY pin this one on you guys though, the writers are English but their biggest audience is American. And the Americans also predictably failed to catch the themes. ALSO a big colonialist country.
(I happened to get a really good education though, especially for a public school. I don't know if My Fellow Americans even learned about the Whiskey Rebellion or the Banana Wars)
It's also hard to explain it, but the Erins also have a very British way of writing fat people. There's overlap between them, but Brit and American fatphobia has two 'trends.'
American fatphobia tends to frame weight as being funny, pathetic, and a sign of a lack of discipline. English fatphobia tends use it to make a villainous or annoying character appear even more vile, greedy, and unhygienic. American media has also had a stronger trend of body positivity lately, whereas I'm having a hard time even thinking of overweight English characters who are not mocked for their size.
These are just the two things I've noticed though. I'm sure there's more noteworthy trends about WC that's influenced by its authors coming from where they do.
#Sometimes hearing about another country's propaganda is so vile you have to laugh#Yeah we were all havin a laff under the British Empire#We had such a laff that we all picked an annual day to look back on it and remember The Good Times#The Americans loved the king so much we turned the Boston harbor into a big teapot to celebrate him 🫖#Bone babble#Fatphobia#Colonialism#Racism
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I haven't read Breezepelt character arc fully, but what in the banana world is the logic of "you're an evil adult, therefore you deserve all the abuse you received as a child"... What??? How do people get those ideas to begin with? Jesus
Most of the time in situations like this, the person just starts with wanting to defend a character they like. 90% of the time this is the abusive man of the week, because due to the nature of WC they liked them as an apprentice and don't like the idea that they're A Bad Guy now. SO they work backwards so their favorite boy is reasonable.
I will say it bluntly; I think the impulse is cowardly and I don't respect it.
Do you relate to a character with flaws that causes them to hurt people? Boohoo. There's no law that says you're only allowed to like perfectly moral characters. Drop the black and white thinking and realize that all people, even people you like or have positive or admirable traits, have the capacity to hurt others.
This is how we get the greatest hits like "Maybe Ashfur trying to murder his ex's kids is her fault actually" and "Perhaps Crowfeather was only an abusive father because the child had bad vibes." You look like a darn fool.
That said, I think the saddest stan behavior I see is when the stan in question was abused themselves, and hasn't unpacked it. It's unfortunately very common.
"Your father getting annoyed that you have inconvenient needs like thirst and hunger is what all dads do!"
"They didn't mean it, so the child is obliged to feel less bad about mistreatment."
"It's not abuse if they only hit you once/on the correct body part/soft enough to not leave a bruise"
"It's normal to feel constant guilt and dread around your parents."
"Abuse is discipline; bad kids deserve to get hit." (Always with the quiet implication; "I know this because I was a bad kid, I made them hurt me.")
It's good to keep in mind this fandom skews young. A lot of them are still repeating the excuses their friends and families made, and that last one is remarkably similar to the Crowfeather claim we're talking about. Child abuse is common, but most people don't want to think badly of their parents.
"A child abuser is an uncaring monster, but my parents are good people who just made some mistakes" -girlie who has not confronted the innate human capacity for harm :X
Sometimes we visit banana world. Other times, we live in banana world.
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imagining somebody knocking on your door and going “bonefall theyre being weird about breezepelt again” and you just sigh with the weight of the world on your shoulders and pull out a bat with book pages stapled to it
I'VE BROUGHT A BIG BAT
I'M ALL READY, YOU SEE
ALL OF BREEZY-P'S TROUBLES
WILL HAVE TROUBLES WITH ME
#fennelposting#Somehow I didn't imagine that I would ultimately end up as The Breezepelt Guy#But darn here I am
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Heyyyy since there's talk of the Breezepelt Attacking Poppyfrost scene going around, I just wanna remind people that he explicitly does that because he was groomed by the Dark Forest. Jayfeather points it out on the page that Breezepelt's stated motivation doesn't make sense, because it's not actually a rational idea Breezy-P came up with. It's then shown that actual factual evil demons are exploiting the anger he has from being a victim of child abuse, to indoctrinate and manipulate him into radical violence
I wrote a little essay about this with citations and stuff. It wasn't "for no reason," and anyone who tries to use the scene as "evidence" of Breezepelt being Secretly Evil to justify the abuse he underwent as a kid either didn't read it, has bad reading comprehension skills, or is cherrypicking on purpose.
Crowfeather emotionally and physically abused his child, Breezepelt was socially alienated by WindClan as a result, which leads to this moment. That is what is on the page.
#Breezepelt#This is one of the few character arcs in the series with proper setup and payoff like. Pls#The Attacking A Nun scene is part of it#The book says that the demons influenced him to do that#Political groups targeting disenfranchised and traumatized groups is Radicalization 101#Pls this is one of the few bits of really REALLY unironically good writing in the series I'm dying squirtle#Kill them by pointing out the scene is literally proof that Breeze DIDNT act on pure bloodthirst#Or ambition or whatever#OTL#Warrior cats analysis#Breezy-P get behind me
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King James Translation:
20 of these words appear in the Bible and "survive" is not one of them. God will not save you here
HAPPY HOMESTUCK TO ONE OF MY FAVORITE CLOWNS <333 <3<<<
See you at the sermons today, heard the mirthful messiahs are talking about purr beasts in the sky or something good luck
May the Mirthful Messiahs leave the flesh unmangled upon your bones and I wish for your favorite Soldier Purrbeast to survive the next book installment <3
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HAPPY HOMESTUCK TO ONE OF MY FAVORITE CLOWNS <333 <3<<<
See you at the sermons today, heard the mirthful messiahs are talking about purr beasts in the sky or something good luck
May the Mirthful Messiahs leave the flesh unmangled upon your bones and I wish for your favorite Soldier Purrbeast to survive the next book installment <3
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