Tumpik
ancient-myth-daily · 2 months ago
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I love Twitter bc everyone is dumb
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ancient-myth-daily · 4 months ago
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love how the octopi on ancient vases always look like theyre ready to party :)
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ancient-myth-daily · 6 months ago
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Kids these days need to understand that Greek mythology has existed for thousands of years before Madeline Miller, Rick Riordan, and Rachel Smythe's great grandparents were alive.
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ancient-myth-daily · 6 months ago
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Circe and Medea, from The Book of Wonder Voyages by John D. Batten (1919)
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ancient-myth-daily · 7 months ago
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for anyone that is interested here is an account of Perseus’ motivations in the Medusa story that predates Ovid:  https://topostext.org/people/153
It is the account from Pindar’s Pythian Odes which predates Ovid and in also in Ancient Greek and not Latin :)  
Here is a blurry picture of it as well:
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Pseudo-Apollodorus’ Bibliotheca is post-Ovid but I don’t think was influenced by him (though don’t take my word for it) and also has the Danaë motivation.   Also in Greek, not Latin.   
Also Pherecydes, apparently a huge source for Pseudo-Apollodorus, is on my to-research list for this topic but he’s very obscure since a lot of his stuff is lost so if anyone has any info on where i could get my hands on some english or latin translated works of his lmk.  
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ancient-myth-daily · 7 months ago
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discourse update?  they blocked me
I can’t respond on the original post anymore because they blocked me lmao, so i am going to respond here.  here is what they wrote:  
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here is the post they linked.  
Here is my response that I had written out as a reblog before I realized I was blocked:
First of all I just want to say:  fuck rapists.
I criticize plenty of mythological males lol.  literally the majority of my posts do in some way.  literally the reply you are responding to criticizes numerous male mythological figures.  also obviously ovid criticism, because that guy sucks.  also i criticized athena, but idk if you care as much about that because she’s (gasp) a woman.  
I brought up the beautiful stuff because that is what she is in Ovid’s version, which is the version you care about.  I like the older, monstrous Medusa.  I am also a feminist who doesn’t shave - not a misogynistic asshole, nor a man as your original post would have it!  
I am talking about Ovid because the Medusa you care about is the one from Ovid’s version???  
Also, in the post you link, you write:
“Perseus is the one to tell her story as Ovid tells it.”
Which is true.  But only after he has already killed her, which doesn’t mean he knew about it before.  I mean, it even says that he says that stuff after he arrives in ethiopia on your post.  which i admit is a pretty finicky point.  
but also from that post:
“Ovid is also the one who establishes why Perseus sought her out to kill her.”
If you’re talking about the Danaë and King Polydectes motive for the quest - which I assume you are - and which I assume is what you mean when you say I am using Ovid in my defense of Perseus  - sorry, but you are just factually wrong on that. Here is a mention of Polydectes’ rape of Danae from Pindar, Pythian Odes:  
Yes, he brought darkness on the monstrous race of Phorcus, and he repaid Polydectes with a deadly wedding-present for the long slavery of his mother and her forced bridal bed; he stripped off the head of beautiful Medusa, Perseus, the son of Danae, who they say was conceived in a spontaneous shower of gold.
(source)
Pindar lived 518 BCE – c. 438 BCE if i am not mistaken, so a few hundred years before Ovid (who again wrote the Medusa account in like 8CE).  I mean, that might not be the earliest mention, I don’t really have time to check right now, but yeah Ovid did not establish why Perseus wanted to kill Medusa, the only new thing Ovid added was Medusa’s rape.  (also for anyone interested around the time of Pindar like ~490BCE was when Medusa was first being described as beautiful, but the metamorphoses of punishment for rape was not till ovid).
also, i did indeed find it amusing that you also criticize Perseus in that linked post for killing the person andromeda was engaged to, in one quick sentence:  
“Then he killed her intended betrothed when he protested.”
without even MENTIONING that her “intended betrothed,” as you put it, was LITERALLY HER UNCLE, which i find you just glossing over insanely funny.  like tally that up to the list of other bad things Perseus did, but be sure not to mention it was her creepy uncle right?  (and that his “protests” were him trying to kill perseus?)  it’s like you hate perseus just that much that you are willing to gloss over dubious acts by other people.  also the idea that he married andromeda against her will is debatable, since the main original source for andromeda is a lost play by euripides of which only fragments remain.  
but literally that is beside the point.  
i responded to the original post because you were claiming that anyone that doesn’t agree with your version of medusa and anyone who likes perseus is a violent, misogynist, rape apologist, and also a man.  like.  these are old myths.  there is not one “correct” reading of them.  that was my main point in responding.  that just because someone disagrees, doesn’t make them any of those things you claim.  
the post you linked, the original post i responded to, and this reply, are all super antagonistic.  and i can completely understand where your anger is coming from.  but like.  you can’t just accuse people of being rape apologists for liking a different character than you.  perseus is literally not a rapist.  not even in ovid’s version.  also claiming that anyone who disagrees with you is a ~man~ is very weird because it is obviously not true and also like. thats not... really an insult.  like...  seriously?
but like what can you expect from a terf blog lmao.  the venn diagram between terfs and people who talk like this:
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is literally a circle.  (image is from OP’s ask box btw).  
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also from their blog.  yeah, fuck rapists.  but fuck terfs too.  
just want to take this opportunity to say that this blog is a trans safe space.  
i’m not going to reply to this person anymore.  please do not harass them.  
and once again - don’t call people rape apologists for liking a different character than you in something like this.  seriously.  
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ancient-myth-daily · 7 months ago
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i agree that people should let each other enjoy their own interpretations of mythological characters, but this take is really bad and also delivered quite badly.  
“She’s a villainess, a monster, though they never have any reasons why. Why?”
BECAUSE THAT IS HOW SHE IS IN THE ORIGINAL MYTH.  SHE LITERALLY IS A VILLAINESS AND A MONSTER.  
“Because she was raped?”
Literally no!!!! She was never raped in the original myth!!!  
the version of the Medusa myth where she was raped was written by the Roman poet Ovid.  The original version of the Medusa myth did not have her as a beautiful woman punished for being raped.  She was just a monster, there was no metamorphosis.  The earliest depictions of her look like this:  
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she is not a pretty woman with snake hair.  she is a monster.  (and she is not even pretty, imagine that!  i like that she looks like a monster).  but that is an aside, whatever.  
my point with that is:  Ovid, a notorious misogynist, writing in the year 8CE (in other words, quite late!  after the fall of the roman republic!), decided to insert rape into Medusa’s mythology.  Why?  Because Ovid was a huge misogynist and loved putting rape into as many of his stories as possible.  so, just to be clear:  originally Medusa was never a human woman, she was always a monster.  Ovid added the rape story in because he loves rape stories.  
and what absolutely BOGGLES my mind is that people PREFER the Ovid version for some reason which is ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE and turns this cool, evil she-monster into a poor woman that was punished for being raped.  Because that is just what happens to women in Ovid.  i HATE Ovid.  I just want hellenistic mythology without every single female character being raped, for the love of fuck.  He thought being turned into a monster was a just punishment for her in his version.  To be perfectly clear - Ovid was on the side of Poseidon (the rapist) in his version of the Medusa myth.   And where the Perseus myth comes into it - that myth was written WAY BEFORE Ovid’s version, where Medusa was still just a fucked up and evil monster!  (and I think having fucked up and evil female monsters is cool.  please, allow there to be fucked up and evil female creatures without turning them into victims or the ~actually ~ the good guys etc etc).  Like, written accounts of Perseus’ myth are in Herodotus and Apollonius of Rhodes - so like the 400s BCE and 3rd century BCE respectively.  CENTURIES before Ovid changed the story to fit into his metamorphosis book. 
but i get it:  people want to respond critically to Ovid’s version and reinterpret the horribly misogynistic version that became literary canon.  i completely understand that.  and medusa is an awesome monster, i like her a lot, as you do.  critically interpreting things is really good.  
but please do not go after people who like perseus.  like, i get that it is annoying when people comment stuff on your medusa fan art or whatever.  i am not someone that does that.  i discourage others from doing that.  (the only medusa-killing-perseus art i have ever commented on is the famous statue where she is holding his severed head, and when i commented on that, it was because i disliked that she did not have any body hair, because.  it just frustrated me that it was still playing into those tropes - that she has to be thin, and pretty, and hairless.  but that is besides the point).   
you really don’t need to call people that like perseus misogynists.
 “Which brings us to this: it isn’t that they don’t see Medusa as a person, or isn’t just that. They don’t see us as people.”
wow, yes, you got me! i, a feminist woman, don’t see women as people because i like evil she-monsters and hate ovid!!  what a good take!  /s
“They have been the violent man, they have offered these same excuses, in real life, against real human women. She was asking for it, she deserved it, it was his right, etc.”
hmm yes clearly everyone who disagrees with your position is a violent rape apologist!  what an excellent take!  /s
why do i like perseus?
i hate ovid, i like the old myths better.  i like the monstrous evil medusa.  and i like perseus.  he is my favorite greek hero.  why?  because he is the *least* misogynistic of all of them.  
and it does bother me when people give perseus a bad rap or treat him as an evil misogynist because 
1. even in the ovid version, perseus didn’t know any of the goddamn backstory to medusa.  as far as he knew, she literally was a fucked up and evil monster like the original!  and also, all of the gods were literally on his side, which generally means that you are in the right when it comes to these stories!  (which is why it is so interesting when helios helps medea after the whole jason thing - because that means she is considered justified in the myth).  
2. small point but i mean, yeah he was doing it for his mom!  you treat that as if it is somehow a negative!  
“imagine what it would look like if she said no to Perseus?”
yeah gee, i wonder if perseus had gotten turned to stone what would have happened to his mom danaë (who by the way, was abused by her father, pretty much raped by zeus, and then harassed by polydectes who wanted to take her as a wife against her will)?  where is the anger for her?  she is just totally forgotten by the #medusagirlboss crowd...
3. by far the BIGGEST problem i have with treating perseus like that is the HYPOCRISY.  why is he the one who medusa gets revenge on?  why is he the one you direct your hate towards?  he is literally the LEAST misogynistic of the greek heroes.  why is your anger directed at perseus, why is she always depicted as killing him, the one protecting his mom and who has literally no knowledge of her human origins in the ovid version, and not:  
-poseidon, the one who actually raped her (does he just get a free pass because he is a god?)
-athena, the victim-blamer, who punished her for being raped (does she just get a free pass because she is a woman and also a god?)
-polydectes perhaps? the harasser of danaë and the literally the one who told perseus to kill medusa?  that would be a very powerful depiction - medusa would be the one defending the long-suffering danaë, as well as herself.  
-or even Ovid?  perhaps a medusa depcited in her original monster form, killing Ovid who wrote her beautiful human origins and rape into her story?  
like WHY is perseus depicted as more the villain than ANY of these characters - literally the only reason i can think of is that it is a play on a lot of old statues and paintings that depicted perseus killing her, which does make sense, but gives you no reason to call people who like perseus rape apologists!
but also - why does nobody care as much with other greek heroes.  why does nobody care this much about the other women from their myths!!  where is the anger for hippolyta, the amazon queen, who was either killed or abducted (and then taken for a wife) by either Herculues or Theseus?  What about Jason and Medea - they would be perfect for this kind of motif.  What about Theseus abandononing Ariadne on an island in the middle of fucking nowhere because he thought her younger sister was hottter?  What about how Theseus abducting Helen when she was a child intending to keep her abducted until she was old enough to marry?  the list goes on.  And you can say well, they are both bad, but you can’t deny the amount of attention that medusa gets over all these other women (besides perhaps maybe just maybe medea) is insane.  
So to the men who defend Perseus in my comments: I know why you like him, I know why you think you are him. You want a good reason to be so violent. He was justified in his cruelty and you believe you were justified in yours. But you were not, and Perseus was not, and we are not afraid to say this. Medusa lives yet, and she is coming for the head of Perseus as surely as we are coming for yours.
no you are literally wrong!!  we like perseus because he loved his mom, and isa cool hero, and save andromeda from her creepy uncle.  and like.... a man saving a woman is not inherently misogynistic, either.  i am allowed to like male characters that are helpful to women.  i can’t believe i even have to say that.  
and newsflash:  women also like perseus.  i like both perseus and medusa.  i can like medusa and still want her as a villain (as she was back in the old myths).  it’s got nothing to do with me being a misogynist or wanting to justify violence or cruelty.  that is just.  insane.  and crazy that dismiss people in that way.  also, men can like perseus too without being raging misogynists.  because nothing about perseus’ character is like that.  even in the ovid version.  it’s like....  your rage is misdirected.  it’s misdirected at the least misogynistic male character out of all the ones i listed.  
but please please please. let me enjoy evil fucked up monster medusa without being called a violent misogynist.  let me have my medusa be an ugly gorgon with no beautiful, hairless, feminine, attributes attached.  let me have her not be raped.  
but yeah.  it is frustrating when people comment about perseus on your medusa posts.  that’s very understandable.  but i can’t not comment when i am being called a raging rape apologist misogynist (and like - did it even cross your mind that women can like perseus too?  or do you just typically use “man” as an insult) for what are perfectly acceptable (and i would argue that my views on medusa ARE feminist) takes on mythological characters. 
but yeah.  let people enjoy their depictions of medusa!  i completely agree with that part.   but don’t call someone a misogynist for having a different interpretation.  because again - there is nothing misogynist about not liking ovid, about not wanting characters to be raped, about not wanting female monsters to be reduced into traditionally beautiful and sexually attractive victims.  and i say “reduced” because that is literally what ovid did - not because i think being a victim is less-than.  
also, i saw OP’s post after someone commented this on my post about how hated perseus is from ages and ages ago about medusa on my mythology blog:
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which like.  to this commenter.  you came to say this.  on my blog.  on my very old post.  which i dont know how you found, but you went out of your way to comment it on MY post on MY mythology blog.  
how about YOU mind your own business and let people enjoy their made up stories?  how about YOU let me enjoy perseus who (imo) is one of the few good and safe male characters in graeco-roman mythology?  how about YOU let me enjoy an evil monstrous medusa with none of ovid’s misogyny tainting her?  
holy shit.  if you like medusa, that is cool, i also like her.  if you like these modern interpretations of her that respond to ovid, that is also cool.  if you like perseus, that is also cool - i don’t think you’re a raging sexist for doing so, no matter your gender.  there is literally no need to be calling anyone rape apologists over this.  
there are multiple ways to respond critically to a text.  
There's a relatively small but very vocal amount of people on this website who will defend Perseus to their dying breath, and this has always bothered me, for various reasons. They only mention Perseus on posts about Medusa - I've gotten some comments on posts that are about her and don't mention him at all.
I think this is, largely, simply misogyny. These people hate depictions of Medusa with the head of Perseus, and often say things such as 'but he was just doing it for his mom!' etc. which is to say: a man always has a good reason to kill. a woman needs a better one to defend herself.
It comes down, too, to the fact that is: Medusa isn't a person to them. She's a villainess, a monster, though they never have any reasons why. Why? Because she was raped? Because artists now like to imagine what it would look like if she said no to Perseus? He killed her while she slept, you know, and Athena guided his killing hand. Medusa was unloved by gods but she is loved by us.
So what if someone draws her with the head of Perseus? He actually did deserve it. He came to her to kill her. Why is it only a crime when SHE does it? Right. Because she isn't a person and he's a man a hero.
I'm going to say it plain: Medusa was a person and she deserved to live. When we draw her or write her as the one who survived, we're really saying, I was in her place and this is what survival might look like for us. This is what it would look like if we were the victors, if men didn't come for our heads while we slept, if we were protected by those who were in a position to do so. The narrative can turn from one of misogyny to one of triumph and comfort.
Which brings us to this: it isn't that they don't see Medusa as a person, or isn't just that. They don't see us as people. To which I have only one thing to say.
When he comes for your head, take his instead, and do not weep.
Perhaps, too, they identify with Perseus as fully as we do with Medusa. They have been the violent man, they have offered these same excuses, in real life, against real human women. She was asking for it, she deserved it, it was his right, etc.
Which is why it bothers them to be forced to imagine a reality in which they did not win. Even if only a painting, even if only a story; they don't like to be the losers. But we are the victims of violence in real life and art is where we turn when we want to confront this reality in a way we can control. We can have the violent man and we can have the monstrous woman who takes his head. We can write or draw her doing this for us. We do not have to be afraid; her hand guides us as Athena's guided Perseus', and the result can be a powerful catharsis. Anything that makes someone feel even slightly safer in this world is worth it, in my opinion.
So to the men who defend Perseus in my comments: I know why you like him, I know why you think you are him. You want a good reason to be so violent. He was justified in his cruelty and you believe you were justified in yours. But you were not, and Perseus was not, and we are not afraid to say this. Medusa lives yet, and she is coming for the head of Perseus as surely as we are coming for yours.
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ancient-myth-daily · 7 months ago
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you want me to get high? the thing that killed icarus?
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ancient-myth-daily · 8 months ago
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This is a VERY OBSCURE MYTH.  The only classical source that makes mention of the guy (whose name is Siproites/Sypretes) is Antonius Liberalis’ Metamorphoses (CE 100-300 - which places him in the Late Classical period, around the same time or a bit after Apuleius).  Antonius Liberalis isn’t even writing about Siproites!  He is writing about another figure that goes through a sex change called Leucippus, and Siproites’ case just gets mentioned as a sort of precedent.  It is of course possible that Antonius Liberalis was working from earlier sources that have since been lost.  But it is also possible that this myth originated from Antonius Liberalis!  
The little information we have on this figure is that Siproites was from Crete and saw Artemis bathing while hunting.  
It should be remembered that the sex change in Siproites’ case was probably intended to be interpreted as a punishment, since a male seeing Artemis bathing was an insult to her, but because we have so little information about this mythological figure it is very much up for interpretation, especially when contrasting Siproites’ myth with Actaeon’s (who also sees Artemis bathing, but is instead turned into a deer and then killed by his own hunting dogs).  
thinkin about that one guy who ran into Artemis out in the forest and she just turn him into a girl so she could join the hunt
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ancient-myth-daily · 8 months ago
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we need to stop the fandomification of greek myth. we need to
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ancient-myth-daily · 8 months ago
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must i have a real job? can i not make a living being the heartbreaker puella straight out of roman elegiac poetry who lives to torture her poet-lover's soul with her cruel and fickle heart and is remembered 2000 years later as a result
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ancient-myth-daily · 8 months ago
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fuck this guy.  robert adrian should lose his job.  i am so infuriated by this whole case.  it is brock turner the rapist all over again.  
drew clinton is a rapist.  he should go to jail.  
dishonorable robert adrian sentenced the guy as guilty and then just reversed it to avoid minimum sentencing laws.  he made disgusting remarks about the victim and her family.  he kicked the prosecutor out of the courtroom on an unrelated case because the prosecutor “liked” a facebook post criticizing the judge’s decision.  
how is that legal?  
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according to this redditor who lives in the town, drew clinton the rapist’s aunt works for the county clerk’s office.  the all fucking know each other.  i am so disgusted.  
here is the change dot org petition that people are signing:  https://chng.it/fbvtbq5LFC.  reminder that giving money to the petition gives it to change dot org and not the petition organizers.  
i really wish this had more attention.  it’s a fucking outrage.  
i have completely lost faith in the justice system.
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ancient-myth-daily · 9 months ago
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sleepy sleepy..... i did another tiny dionysus since people seem to like him 🏺🍇
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ancient-myth-daily · 9 months ago
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fun fact: in Manichaeism, the final mass of evil and the damned that remains at the end of time to be sealed up, never seeing light again, is called the lump.  
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ancient-myth-daily · 11 months ago
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our hubris is unimaginable. watching the other sites topple like dominoes and feeling like icarus but if icarus’ wings were made of oopsie sowwy this page isnt working messages 
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ancient-myth-daily · a year ago
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Fun fact:  in both ancient times and the middle ages people believed that beavers bit off their own testicles when being pursued.  I became aware of this while reading The Golden Ass by Apuleius, from the late 2nd century.  
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ancient-myth-daily · a year ago
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Note that that is Ovid’s telling of the myth, which is quite late in terms of myth retellings though.  I mean, Ovid was an Augustan-era Roman, not even Greek.  A lot of his myths change things from the originals (like in the case of Medusa), and a lot of his myths are pretty rapey too.  :/  There’s actually older versions of the myth, and a really dead giveaway to that is that Hermaphroditus is a Greek word (Latin doesn’t have “ph”).  
The earliest surviving mention of Hermaphroditus is by the Greek philosopher Theophrastus in his book “The Characters”:  
“Also on the fourth and seventh days of each month he will order his servants to mull wine, and go out and buy myrtle-wreaths, frankincense, and smilax; and, on coming in, will spend the day in crowning the Hermaphrodites.”
The fourth day was considered the luckiest day to have a wedding, and Hermaphroditus has been connected to marriage by modern scholars.  
The first time Hermaphroditus’ parents are mentioned is by Diodorus Siculus in “Bibliotecha historica”:  
“Hermaphroditus, as he has been called, who was born of Hermes and Aphrodite and received a name which is a combination of those of both his parents. Some say that this Hermaphroditus is a god and appears at certain times among men, and that he is born with a physical body which is a combination of that of a man and that of a woman, in that he has a body which is beautiful and delicate like that of a woman, but has the masculine quality and vigour of a man. But there are some who declare that such creatures of two sexes are monstrosities, and coming rarely into the world as they do they have the quality of presaging the future, sometimes for evil and sometimes for good.” 
This above account was in 1BC, Ovid’s myth dates from 8AD.  So, just as I suspected, Ovid made the rapey myth, and the original version has Hermaphroditus being born intersex.  (And being able to tell the future?) So actually, the original ask by @that--dam--fangirl​ is correct, if you consider the earliest versions of myths to be the “correct” ones.  In any case, the Greek version is much lovelier.  
I JUST FOUND OUT APHRODITE HAD A KID WITH HERMES NAMED HERMAPHRODITUS WHO WAS INTERSEX AND THAT'S WHERE HERMAPHRODITE COMES FROM AND SKSKSKSK WAS SOMEBODY GONNA TELL ME-
Oh I know about this.
I think according to the myth, she actually had a son who was deeply in love with this nymph and wanted her but she didn’t like him back so he prayed to his mom so that he and the nymph can be together forever
And Aphrodite just kinda fused them together.
Don’t remember much but yeah...
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