quick asterisk on the NTA: not wanting to be human =/= misanthropy, and is in fact an extremely normal nonhuman experience. talking about how "how could anyone ever want to be human, humans are horrible" etc etc is misanthropy and is kind of rude when there are humans in the community (like me, hi), though it's not the most offensive form of misanthropy for sure.

Okay context, I made a post about not wanting to be human, and someone commented “your misanthropy is so sexy and we totally need it clogging the tags” (I assumed it was sarcasm), and I just blocked them and moved on. Am I the asshole for “clogging the tags”? (I assume they meant the therian/otherkin tags?)

Asterisk: the kinnie language isn't the problem here for me, it's the using "kinning" to mean things outside of actual identity. The kinnie language is just a symptom of that. (I could elaborate on why I think it's a problem, but you've probably heard it a million times; if you haven't, I've got a bunch of discussions on the subject here or I'm happy to elaborate if asked.) I don't like kinnie language, primarily because it's largely unclear and encourages the "kinning for fun" thing, but I've got bigger linguistic fish to fry - like, for instance, the kinning for fun thing (meaning people using "I kin him" to mean "I relate to him" or "I really really like him" and not "I am him," not people genuinely identifying as their "kins" but "not taking being otherkin seriously enough", to be clear).

aita for using "kinnie language"?

i use kinnie, kinlist, kin as a verb, and whatever a lot of people don't like. my friend group contains both kinfolk, kff, and non-kin people and i'm sort of used to it because that's what we use when we talk about this kind of stuff (yes, we're all aware of our different usages + implications of the same word/s). lots of posts n stuff with people hating "kinnie language" just makes me feel bad :,}

spiritual alterhumans

(i fucked up and needed to remake this poll, sorry) (also i again fucked up it should be walk in soul but alright...)

Not sure how many people are ready for this conversation but, also, we saw that super long post but also maybe, like, people should be somewhat logically consistent, which means we are going to drop a bit of a bombshell separately into your inbox to share at your discretion:

The traumagenic nature of DID or OSDD (-1 as that is the plurality OSDD) is never what we've been contesting for the most part, it's been the conflation of system origins to system disordered-ness.

Even if MOST endogenics do not claim to have DID or OSDD-1, if we, an endogenic system who simply were born plural and never fused, ran themselves into an abusive situation later on, there is nothing distinguishing us from a classically/stereotypically traumagenic system with DID, if we follow the theory of structural dissociation, except for the fact our subjective experience has been interpreted differently.

If purely-traumagenic systems can work towards functional multiplicity from a disordered state, we must give purely-endogenic systems the same kindness when they say "I'm an endogenic and have DID/OSDD" or "I am endogenic and have HC-DID" and learn to make that separation. We will always believe those people. What kind of people would we be if we didn't?

"Can you have DIDOSDD without trauma" is often a false question and a dogwhistle made by bigots hoping you will slip up.

"Most endogenics do not claim to have DID or OSDD" feels like a cop out made to appease bigots. Certainly not always, but, it's the same issue as above: often derived because of the false question and a dogwhistle made by bigots hoping you will slip up.

This is also very true and a very good point, and one that I didn't address in that post mostly for reasons of not wanting it to get so long that I lost the other person.

I hate to say it, but you’ve named the exact reason so many of us consider using “kinning” to mean “relating to” to be a problem. That’s kind of just what happens when you (general you, not you specifically) accept that definition of it as valid - you suddenly no longer have a word to mean the thing it actually means. There’s some truth to words meaning the thing they’re used as, not a dictionary definition - but there’s also the fact that words being twisted by people outside of the community they came from to mean something they were never meant to is generally a bad thing. It’s appropriation, frankly, even if on a smaller scale than we generally think of “appropriation” in, and it causes this exact problem.

So… no, honestly, unfortunately, I don’t think there is a good way to communicate that if you’re going to continue using it to mean the other thing too (or at least affirming that that’s a valid meaning). That’s the problem. You could use older words or ones that have been less afflicted by this problem - otherkind instead of otherkin, therian or theriomythic if appropriate, etc - but there may or may not be one that fits you as well as otherkin does (I’m not sure what exactly you’ve got going on identity-wise, obviously). You’d likely have to make a new word to mean the thing ‘kin “used to,” which is frankly unfair to you imo (and as a warning: part of the reason we haven’t done that as a community is that if the source of the problem isn’t stopped, it’ll likely just follow you to whatever new words you create).

Im completely accepting of kff and people who use kin to mean relating to, (even if I think there's better terms you could use) but is there a way for me to easier convey I personally mean kin as in I LITERALLY am this thing & not just relating to ? I am these identities LITERALLY and I will bite you if you call me a delusional attachment.

I know kith is the term for relating to and so therefore kin 'should' mean identifying as, but words are what they are used as not dictionary definitions. So at this point if I say kin, many people will assume the 'relating to' definition.

Can someone please explain how someone can physically identify as nonhuman? Like, do they physically see a different creature when they look in the mirror or at their body?

I keep seeing the topic of alterhumans identifying physically as something else and it confuses me

I'm... honestly not sure where this argument is coming from. Rarely if ever have I seen endogenic systems say that DID/OSDD-focused/exclusive spaces shouldn't exist at all, anywhere, and rarely if ever have I seen anti-endos whose argument is "I'm fine with you guys existing in the larger plural community, I just want DID/OSDD-only spaces too" - it's virtually always "you guys either aren't plural at all and are faking it, or you actually do have trauma you just don't know about it and are wrong about your own experiences". I believe you when you say that's the majority of the anti-endo community that you've seen, but it absolutely is not the majority of the anti-endo community I've seen. Basically every syscourse argument I've ever seen or been involved in has always been about whether or not we're allowed to exist at all, ever. I... can't really answer a "why do you need to be included in every space, even ones that are meant for CDD systems" question, because that's not what I'm arguing and never has been. (I actually agree with you that spaces for CDD systems exclusively should exist alongside mixed plural spaces - I just don't want the reason to be "because those endos are fakers," which is frankly often what I've seen "traumagenics only" servers give as their reason.)

(I also wouldn't call that an anti-endo argument at all anyway, tbh - that's a little like, idk, saying someone who wants lesbian-only events to exist is "anti-bisexual" even though they have no actual issue with bi people. It implies way more hostility than is actually present.)

I will, however, say that an "endos DNI" is... kind of always going to come across as hateful regardless of intent when it's on a personal blog or whatever instead of an actual community server/space, especially given that^ context. If someone says "endos DNI," without any further explanation I am going to assume that it's because they think we're "faking it," since that's 99% of the people who have problems with endogenic systems that I've run into - for much the same reason that, to continue the metaphor, if someone says "bisexuals DNI" on their personal blog, I'm gonna assume it's because they have shitty opinions on bi people. Having a community space that says "this is specifically for [x] group" is one thing; having a personal DNI that says "I don't even want to see or talk to people outside of [x] group ever" sends a very different message, y'feel?

I guess I'm also not sure how you're defining "system" versus "plural" here, since typically I've seen them used as synonyms or near-synonyms and, as the source linked above indicates, the term doesn't seem to have originated as term only for MPD (which was the diagnosis at the time) - would you mind backing up and elaborating on that for me so I understand where you're coming from a bit better?

Genuinely, how do so many anti-endo people have the fact that they're anti-endo and "fakeclaimers DNI" right next to each other in their profile/pinned/etc.? Babe, you are the fakeclaimer. The thing you are doing when you say "DNI endogenic "systems"/supporters", putting "systems" in scare quotes to state that you don't think they're really systems, is by definition fakeclaiming. You just think that it's justified when you do it because this time you've got the REAL fakes and you REALLY know how to tell when someone is lying about their experiences and identity, pinkie promise. That doesn't make it not fakeclaiming - all fakeclaimers think that. They wouldn't do it otherwise.

I was going to answer this when I got home, but looks like I was beaten to it! That's basically exactly my response; system =/= DID, and people "claiming to be" (for whatever value of "claiming" we want to use here) systems aren't necessarily claiming to have DID in the first place.

To bunny-trail a bit and just ramble for a second now (not necessarily in direct response to you, @thedollsystem, just because I've finally put something into words): I think that's the root of a lot of syscourse arguments, actually - the actual argument, a lot of the time, is not actually whether or not you can be plural without trauma, but whether or not plurality can exist outside of DID (and OSDD, though if I'm honest, a lot of anti-endo people kind of seem to forget that OSDD systems exist and tend to have different experiences than DID systems - but that's a different conversation). It's just that if you believe DID or OSDD are the only ways to be plural, and that childhood trauma is the only way to have DID or OSDD, then therefore the only way to be plural is to have childhood trauma.

This is why so many endogenic systems and supporters get annoyed and frustrated when anti-endo people start saying endo systems are "claiming to have DID" - 99% of the time, they're not. But if you equate plurality to DID/OSDD 100%, then they're synonyms, so of course you'd use them interchangeably - the problem is, the whole point of pro-endo arguments is pointing out that the experience of plurality can exist outside of the disorders of DID and OSDD, and that a disordered version of an experience existing doesn't mean that a non-disordered version of it can't also exist (and neither one invalidates the other), so saying that we're "claiming to have DID" misses the point entirely.

Genuinely, how do so many anti-endo people have the fact that they're anti-endo and "fakeclaimers DNI" right next to each other in their profile/pinned/etc.? Babe, you are the fakeclaimer. The thing you are doing when you say "DNI endogenic "systems"/supporters", putting "systems" in scare quotes to state that you don't think they're really systems, is by definition fakeclaiming. You just think that it's justified when you do it because this time you've got the REAL fakes and you REALLY know how to tell when someone is lying about their experiences and identity, pinkie promise. That doesn't make it not fakeclaiming - all fakeclaimers think that. They wouldn't do it otherwise.

Genuinely, how do so many anti-endo people have the fact that they're anti-endo and "fakeclaimers DNI" right next to each other in their profile/pinned/etc.? Babe, you are the fakeclaimer. The thing you are doing when you say "DNI endogenic "systems"/supporters", putting "systems" in scare quotes to state that you don't think they're really systems, is by definition fakeclaiming. You just think that it's justified when you do it because this time you've got the REAL fakes and you REALLY know how to tell when someone is lying about their experiences and identity, pinkie promise. That doesn't make it not fakeclaiming - all fakeclaimers think that. They wouldn't do it otherwise.

This poll is NOT a measure of the validity of someone's identity, nor does it imply that nonhuman identity is something you can grow out of.

The context behind the poll is that I was much more "feral" as a child than I am now, and a lot of the instincts I had prior are just kinda non-existent. Which makes nonhuman identy less something I have to actively "battle with" (aside from the occassional dysphoria) and moreso something I can just chill out and go "hehe imma lizurb".

Once the timelimit's over, this poll can also probably give some comfort to younger people who are probably struggling with instinct stuff rn. While it's not guaranteed, there is a non-zero chance it'll mellow out. I'm also just curious how many have similar experiences

Literally. If it's not purely a for-fun exercise, if it's something you're actually worried about potential consequences of, you should not be binding yourself to something like that. If you can't work up the courage to do it on your own, there's probably a reason for that.

Hello, I do not mean to be annoying or anything, but to those who make the note posts that involve doing something that can result in a negative backlash (i.e. coming out, whether it be as queer or a non/alterhuman, etc) and you have not made it clear that they are accepting and you do not think they will react badly;

I am not going to give your posts notes because I do not want you to get hurt. Yes, I am some random stranger on the internet but I still care deeply for individuals. I hate seeing others get hurt over things like this and it makes me sad. I do not want to encourage anyone to do something that could result in a bad reaction that could end up hurting anyone whether way that could be. I am sorry if this sounds parasocial and/or rude/harsh but I just cannot stand the thought of things like that happening over a note game. I know it is not my business to care and it is just a personal thing of mine.

How I Experience Being Musickin

Aside from being a dragon i also identify as musickin. that means i non-physically identify as spesific songs or genres, i feel as though i am that or an embodiment of that spesific song.

what kind of music related shifts do i experience?:

i experience some kind of aura shifts where my aura kind of becomes synced with the music that is playing of spesific genres. infact it triggers my senses and i can see colors and i'd like to imagine my aura vibrating to the sound. so i would say they are some kind of sensory shift - "a shift where one experiences heightened or altered senses that they feel resemble the senses of their kintype" but mixed with a an envisage shift

its difficult to put into exact words or even a drawing. or images. i cant? its more of a mental feeling then anything. phantom shifts? yes i experience those too. though of music related shifts rarely. when i do they are usually of music gear objects such as speakers

being a bass player & beginner music producer opend up so many doors for how i perceive music & sound. at first it was just a connection i had with it, i liked it i liked the sense of familairity but soon i discoverd it is actually a part of me instead of just something i connect with!. it took me sometime and still does to accept that im also musickin. i find it difficult to piece together how it works having mulitple kintypes. but i just cannot deny this aspect of me. it is something i find....well..rather difficult to talk about.

- 21-04-2024

If someone does have some ambient...human-ness to them after living amongst them unquestioningly for so long, do you think it's possible to like...turn that aspect of self-perception down a little? My "humansona" that shares my body's name feels like a distinct identity built up after a very long time of interfacing with the outside world and while it's important and necessary in some ways (most of me doesn't WANT to hide its nonhuman nature in any way, which is sadly not a viable option, and its not like the vessel is a BAD person) if it gets too loud i start losing touch with the parts id rather be paying all this attention to. So is there a way to like...refocus the human thoughts back to the entity thoughts a little?

I'm... not sure, to be honest, besides just - well, "just doing that," for lack of a better phrase. Consciously spending time connecting with and thinking about your nonhumanity, doing things that feel nonhuman to you, etc. etc. It's not something I've ever really thought about, since that's not undesirable to me, I guess.

I wonder if that anon is trying to say something like 'the european idea of a dragon is the commercial view of a dragon and it has gone from 'mythic creature with cultural conotations' to 'lizard with wings'. I don't... Agree with that but that's all I got from that ask.

Maybe? Idk.

I think the "new FFF" is Vulpine Labs. I saw the server invite as well. Didn't join though because I wasn't interested.

Yeah, that's the one I was vaguely referencing, I just didn't want to name it because I haven't looked into it in-depth personally (yet), I've only just heard of it for the first time today. (Versus FFF, which I've looked into multiple times.)